Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

This note is relative to the "field day" portion of the subject line.  The
NVIS portion has been discussed previously.

The Jan 2022 Winter Field Day rules are available at www.winterfieldday.com.
Portable, outdoor and home stations are allowed.

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:14 AM Greg Herman  wrote:

> This is just a suggestion and forgive me if I’m not aware of something that
> already exists. What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> NVIS field day?
>
> As we all know Elecraft plays well with others, and along that theme
> everybody would be welcome to participate  in such a field day event. I’m
> guessing there would be a lot of KX twos and KX3 Yahoo Group all along with
> several other QRP radios and some 100 watt ones. Who knows Wayne might put
> a battery in a K4 and climb a hill.
>
> I have never made it in VIS contact but for emergency preparedness and just
> knowledge I would love to learn a lot about it and having others to
> participate would make it even easier to perhaps relay a message to across
> America
>
> My understanding brief as it is is it 80 meters is one of the better bands
> for NVIS
>
> Perhaps designate different segments of the band for the 0-9 groups
> depending on where you’re from that way you could listen in for your
> neighboring groups
>
> No stress, just good clean fun and an opportunity to learn.
>
> Comments and suggestions welcome
>
> Greg- KC9NRO
>
>
> --
> Have a Great day!
> Greg
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kilo4...@gmail.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Edward Mccann]


A couple of historical references on the current topic:

https://www.mpoweruk.com/papers/Radcom_NVIS.pdf


https://www.mpoweruk.com/papers/Arnhem_NVIS.pdf

Interesting articles. Lore notwithstanding!

Merry Christmas to all.

AG6CX 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2021, at 8:23 PM, Bill Parsons  wrote:
> Dean Straw's December 2005 NVIS article with color graphics appears to be a
> public access document and archived at the ARRL website at:
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST%20Binaries/Straw1205.pdf
> 
> The version retrieved in the standard ARRL members only archives accessed
> at the Technology tab Periodical and Archive Search engine has black and
> white graphics.
> 
> 73, Bill  AF6AE
> 
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 8:54 AM Ed Cole  wrote:
> 
>> Thanks to Bill Parsons-AF6AE for the tip on the QST December-2005
>> article.  Pulled it out and scanned it over (will read more thoroughly
>> later) but interestingly showed how 80/40m coverage varied by time of
>> day (which was demonstrated real-time in the 1980's on the Iditarod
>> trail working into Anchorage).
>> 
>> At home I only use those bands infrequently and mostly to talk out a few
>> hundred miles in Alaska.  Somewhere I read that a 40-foot high
>> inverted-V would work well.  I have a 50-foot tower mounted to end of my
>> house with Hygain TH3mk4 tribander at tower top so hung my 80/40m fan
>> dipole at the 40-foot level with end tapering down to 20-foot on one end
>> and 15-foot on the other.  Its hung on a line NW to SE but that seems to
>> work out 400 miles just fine.
>> 
>> I am going to re-hang that antenna next summer with 80m wire at right
>> angle to 40m wire as the fan-style 40m tuning was affected by proximity
>> of the 80m wire.  As I have written previously, I will also run this as
>> a top-hat loaded vertical on 160m/630m by shorting the 40-foot high
>> feedline.
>> 
>> I check into a weekly net on Saturdays (11am local time) on 3920 KHz.
>> NC is about 70 miles south in Homer, AK (KL7PM) and consistently comes
>> in at 30-40 dB over S9.  He does run about 400w.  I get at least S9
>> reports from him with my 100w and I hear other stations out as far north
>> as Fairbanks (400 miles) pretty well.  Band noise runs S7 (K3 PRE Off).
>> 
>> 3920 is designated emergency channel for AK and often activated after an
>> earthquake for tsunami watch.
>> 
>> Ed-KL7UW
>> K3/10+KXPA100 on HF/6m
>> under construction is 3w/1200w W6PQL MRF1K50H amp
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to bparsons.i...@gmail.com
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to edwmcc...@gmail.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Bill Parsons]

Dean Straw's December 2005 NVIS article with color graphics appears to be a
public access document and archived at the ARRL website at:
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST%20Binaries/Straw1205.pdf

The version retrieved in the standard ARRL members only archives accessed
at the Technology tab Periodical and Archive Search engine has black and
white graphics.

73, Bill  AF6AE

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 8:54 AM Ed Cole  wrote:

> Thanks to Bill Parsons-AF6AE for the tip on the QST December-2005
> article.  Pulled it out and scanned it over (will read more thoroughly
> later) but interestingly showed how 80/40m coverage varied by time of
> day (which was demonstrated real-time in the 1980's on the Iditarod
> trail working into Anchorage).
>
> At home I only use those bands infrequently and mostly to talk out a few
> hundred miles in Alaska.  Somewhere I read that a 40-foot high
> inverted-V would work well.  I have a 50-foot tower mounted to end of my
> house with Hygain TH3mk4 tribander at tower top so hung my 80/40m fan
> dipole at the 40-foot level with end tapering down to 20-foot on one end
> and 15-foot on the other.  Its hung on a line NW to SE but that seems to
> work out 400 miles just fine.
>
> I am going to re-hang that antenna next summer with 80m wire at right
> angle to 40m wire as the fan-style 40m tuning was affected by proximity
> of the 80m wire.  As I have written previously, I will also run this as
> a top-hat loaded vertical on 160m/630m by shorting the 40-foot high
> feedline.
>
> I check into a weekly net on Saturdays (11am local time) on 3920 KHz.
> NC is about 70 miles south in Homer, AK (KL7PM) and consistently comes
> in at 30-40 dB over S9.  He does run about 400w.  I get at least S9
> reports from him with my 100w and I hear other stations out as far north
> as Fairbanks (400 miles) pretty well.  Band noise runs S7 (K3 PRE Off).
>
> 3920 is designated emergency channel for AK and often activated after an
> earthquake for tsunami watch.
>
> Ed-KL7UW
> K3/10+KXPA100 on HF/6m
> under construction is 3w/1200w W6PQL MRF1K50H amp
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to bparsons.i...@gmail.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Ed Cole]

Thanks to Bill Parsons-AF6AE for the tip on the QST December-2005 
article.  Pulled it out and scanned it over (will read more thoroughly 
later) but interestingly showed how 80/40m coverage varied by time of 
day (which was demonstrated real-time in the 1980's on the Iditarod 
trail working into Anchorage).


At home I only use those bands infrequently and mostly to talk out a few 
hundred miles in Alaska.  Somewhere I read that a 40-foot high 
inverted-V would work well.  I have a 50-foot tower mounted to end of my 
house with Hygain TH3mk4 tribander at tower top so hung my 80/40m fan 
dipole at the 40-foot level with end tapering down to 20-foot on one end 
and 15-foot on the other.  Its hung on a line NW to SE but that seems to 
work out 400 miles just fine.


I am going to re-hang that antenna next summer with 80m wire at right 
angle to 40m wire as the fan-style 40m tuning was affected by proximity 
of the 80m wire.  As I have written previously, I will also run this as 
a top-hat loaded vertical on 160m/630m by shorting the 40-foot high 
feedline.


I check into a weekly net on Saturdays (11am local time) on 3920 KHz. 
NC is about 70 miles south in Homer, AK (KL7PM) and consistently comes 
in at 30-40 dB over S9.  He does run about 400w.  I get at least S9 
reports from him with my 100w and I hear other stations out as far north 
as Fairbanks (400 miles) pretty well.  Band noise runs S7 (K3 PRE Off).


3920 is designated emergency channel for AK and often activated after an 
earthquake for tsunami watch.


Ed-KL7UW
K3/10+KXPA100 on HF/6m
under construction is 3w/1200w W6PQL MRF1K50H amp
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Bill Parsons]

Thanks Jim.

I was glad that Dean deviated from the usual zero dB reference style of
many ARRL antenna patterns and addressed NVIS propagation for the EmComm
(Emergency Communications) audience with signal levels over geographic
regions and graphs with your style of everything plotted on the same graph
such as in fig. 3 for easy comparison.

He provided frequency choice guidance for both high and low solar activity
periods for nighttime and daytime propagation, as well as clear portable
and home / base station antenna height recommendations. It was a basic HF
NVIS cookbook for field EmComm operations antennas.

73, Bill  AF6AE

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:18 AM Jim Brown  wrote:

> Thanks Bill. I haven't seen this piece, but Dean is a good friend and
> smart engineer. Yes, low antennas have the benefit of rejecting low
> angle "stuff" that may be annoying. But it's important to differentiate
> between RX and TX, and TX is all about maximizing signal strength in
> desired directions.
>
> A major shortcoming of all ARRL presentation of antenna directivity is
> that it normalizes them, by setting the max value on the plot to 0dB.
> But what you lose is the ABSOLUTE value. My work avoids that, by
> presenting data for all variations of an antenna on the same graph,
> making clear the advantage of one height over another ON TX.
>
> But RX is VERY different. I often listen on Beverages at 40M and below.
> Their signal is weaker, but their directivity brings desired signals out
> of noise. When I visited N6AA several years ago, he showed me a
> ground-hugging Yagi he used to reject noise from civilization the valley
> below him. No way would he have transmitted into that antenna, nor would
> I have transmitted into my Beverages.
>
> 73, Jim
>
> On 12/19/2021 2:23 AM, Bill Parsons wrote:
> > Take a look at Dean Straws NVIS article (with color graphics) in the
> > December 2005 issue of QST for a discussion of optimizing antenna height
> > for NVIS based on signal to noise ratio and region you wish to cover.
> Most
> > if not all of that article appears in the 23rd and 24th editions of the
> > ARRL Antenna Book with black and white graphics.
> > 73,
> > AF6AE
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:04 PM Bill Mader  wrote:
> >
> >> NVIS information is almost always anecdotal and a myth, more than
> science!
> >> As I have told many participants in many presentations, "If you think
> >> lowering your antenna will make your signal stronger, expect your QSL
> cards
> >> to arrive on a unicorn."  How many of you looked at Jim's, K9YC,
> >> explanation?  Probably too few.
> >>
> >> 40m is near the upper limit of NVIS and currently, it is often below the
> >> NVIS frequency.  At this point in Cycle 25, I frequently can't copy
> >> stations within 150-250 miles away on 40m here in NM.  The ones I copy
> best
> >> have the highest, NOT lowest, antennas.
> >>
> >> Note, as shown in Jim's paper, an 80m dipole at 60 ft. provides the
> maximum
> >> NVIS signal while at one at 90 ft. is just 1 dB down.  Having operated
> with
> >> an 80m dipole at 75 ft. on an Air Force RADAR site, my 100 Watt signal
> was
> >> almost always stronger than those with lower antennas around MI.  Yes,
> that
> >> is anecdotal, but it agrees with the science as modeled in Jim's paper.
> >>
> >> I have yet to read of anyone's scientific data showing their 10 ft. high
> >> dipole worked better than their 30 ft. high dipole on 40m, to say
> nothing
> >> of similar 80m dipoles.  If you have two WSPR transmitters and have
> >> antennas at these heights, gather some data.  Both transmitters must
> >> transmit the same level signals at the same time over time to collect
> >> meaningful data, assuming everything is equal.
> >>
> >> I once worked a station in Italy on 20m SSB with my KX3 using my mobile
> >> antenna.  I did not replace much better antennas at home based on that
> >> anecdote.  Neither have I received any QSL cards on unicorns although I
> do
> >> have a unicorn graphic in some of my antenna presentations.
> >>
> >> 73, Bill Mader, K8TE
> >> New Mexico QSO Party 9 Apr 2022
> >> Secretary/Treasurer and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
> >> W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 10-18 Sep 2022
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to bparsons.i...@gmail.com
> >>
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Bill Parsons]

Take a look at Dean Straws NVIS article (with color graphics) in the
December 2005 issue of QST for a discussion of optimizing antenna height
for NVIS based on signal to noise ratio and region you wish to cover.  Most
if not all of that article appears in the 23rd and 24th editions of the
ARRL Antenna Book with black and white graphics.
73,
AF6AE

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:04 PM Bill Mader  wrote:

> NVIS information is almost always anecdotal and a myth, more than science!
> As I have told many participants in many presentations, "If you think
> lowering your antenna will make your signal stronger, expect your QSL cards
> to arrive on a unicorn."  How many of you looked at Jim's, K9YC,
> explanation?  Probably too few.
>
> 40m is near the upper limit of NVIS and currently, it is often below the
> NVIS frequency.  At this point in Cycle 25, I frequently can't copy
> stations within 150-250 miles away on 40m here in NM.  The ones I copy best
> have the highest, NOT lowest, antennas.
>
> Note, as shown in Jim's paper, an 80m dipole at 60 ft. provides the maximum
> NVIS signal while at one at 90 ft. is just 1 dB down.  Having operated with
> an 80m dipole at 75 ft. on an Air Force RADAR site, my 100 Watt signal was
> almost always stronger than those with lower antennas around MI.  Yes, that
> is anecdotal, but it agrees with the science as modeled in Jim's paper.
>
> I have yet to read of anyone's scientific data showing their 10 ft. high
> dipole worked better than their 30 ft. high dipole on 40m, to say nothing
> of similar 80m dipoles.  If you have two WSPR transmitters and have
> antennas at these heights, gather some data.  Both transmitters must
> transmit the same level signals at the same time over time to collect
> meaningful data, assuming everything is equal.
>
> I once worked a station in Italy on 20m SSB with my KX3 using my mobile
> antenna.  I did not replace much better antennas at home based on that
> anecdote.  Neither have I received any QSL cards on unicorns although I do
> have a unicorn graphic in some of my antenna presentations.
>
> 73, Bill Mader, K8TE
> New Mexico QSO Party 9 Apr 2022
> Secretary/Treasurer and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
> W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 10-18 Sep 2022
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to bparsons.i...@gmail.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[John Harper]

You're correct - it hasn't been stated anywhere but that won't stop some
from refuting it as if it were ;-)

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com

>I’ve scanned back through this thread and I don’t see where anyone said
that their signal got stronger by lowering their antenna. Maybe I missed it
somewhere?
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[David Herring]

I agree. I never said, believed or thought an NVIS antenna HAD to be low, I 
just said it COULD be low.  

In fact I was banking on the fact that making it low would make distant signals 
weaker.  ;-)

73,
Dave - N5DCH




> On Dec 18, 2021, at 4:18 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 12/18/2021 2:31 PM, David Herring wrote:
>> Putting a dipole at about 10 feet (plus or minus, I don’t recall the exact 
>> height) accomplished everything I wanted. I worked, on a daily basis, hams 
>> at all points along the length of the State of Hawaii, I experienced reduced 
>> band noise, and I did not have to contend with stations outside of this 
>> area. Problems solved. I don’t think any of this contradicts science.
> 
> Believing that the antenna MUST be low for NVIS DOES contradict science. As 
> my extensive study, which has been peer reviewed, shows, all that having an 
> antenna very low does is increase loss, making your signal weaker, and make 
> distant signals weaker in your receiver.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Jim Brown]

On 12/18/2021 2:31 PM, David Herring wrote:

Putting a dipole at about 10 feet (plus or minus, I don’t recall the exact 
height) accomplished everything I wanted. I worked, on a daily basis, hams at 
all points along the length of the State of Hawaii, I experienced reduced band 
noise, and I did not have to contend with stations outside of this area. 
Problems solved. I don’t think any of this contradicts science.


Believing that the antenna MUST be low for NVIS DOES contradict science. 
As my extensive study, which has been peer reviewed, shows, all that 
having an antenna very low does is increase loss, making your signal 
weaker, and make distant signals weaker in your receiver.


73, Jim K9YC
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[David Herring]

I’ve scanned back through this thread and I don’t see where anyone said that 
their signal got stronger by lowering their antenna.  Maybe I missed it 
somewhere?

To be clear, in my specific case, I was crafting a purpose-driven antenna. I 
wanted an antenna that would provide reliable, continuous coverage over about a 
400+ mile radius. I did not want to hear, or be heard by, anything or anyone 
outside of that area. I didn’t care about efficiency, QSL cards or anything 
else, mythical or otherwise.  Putting a dipole at about 10 feet (plus or minus, 
I don’t recall the exact height) accomplished everything I wanted. I worked, on 
a daily basis, hams at all points along the length of the State of Hawaii, I 
experienced reduced band noise, and I did not have to contend with stations 
outside of this area. Problems solved. I don’t think any of this contradicts 
science.

73,
Dave - N5DCH




> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:02 PM, Bill Mader  wrote:
> 
> NVIS information is almost always anecdotal and a myth, more than science!
> As I have told many participants in many presentations, "If you think
> lowering your antenna will make your signal stronger, expect your QSL cards
> to arrive on a unicorn."  How many of you looked at Jim's, K9YC,
> explanation?  Probably too few.
> 
> 40m is near the upper limit of NVIS and currently, it is often below the
> NVIS frequency.  At this point in Cycle 25, I frequently can't copy
> stations within 150-250 miles away on 40m here in NM.  The ones I copy best
> have the highest, NOT lowest, antennas.
> 
> Note, as shown in Jim's paper, an 80m dipole at 60 ft. provides the maximum
> NVIS signal while at one at 90 ft. is just 1 dB down.  Having operated with
> an 80m dipole at 75 ft. on an Air Force RADAR site, my 100 Watt signal was
> almost always stronger than those with lower antennas around MI.  Yes, that
> is anecdotal, but it agrees with the science as modeled in Jim's paper.
> 
> I have yet to read of anyone's scientific data showing their 10 ft. high
> dipole worked better than their 30 ft. high dipole on 40m, to say nothing
> of similar 80m dipoles.  If you have two WSPR transmitters and have
> antennas at these heights, gather some data.  Both transmitters must
> transmit the same level signals at the same time over time to collect
> meaningful data, assuming everything is equal.
> 
> I once worked a station in Italy on 20m SSB with my KX3 using my mobile
> antenna.  I did not replace much better antennas at home based on that
> anecdote.  Neither have I received any QSL cards on unicorns although I do
> have a unicorn graphic in some of my antenna presentations.
> 
> 73, Bill Mader, K8TE
> New Mexico QSO Party 9 Apr 2022
> Secretary/Treasurer and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
> W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 10-18 Sep 2022
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Ed Cole]

Just a comment on low dipoles:

On the Iditarod Dog Sled Race (Alaska) we had ham stations located in 
remote located checkpoints (total bush-no telephone or other utilities). 
 We used 80m and 40m to communicate with race HQ in Anchorage over 
paths of a couple hundred miles to 600 miles, or so.


80m worked well at night and 40m during the daytime.

Since one packed their station in a couple boxes to be hauled in small 
airplanes to these remote locations, antenna was a simple 80m wire 
dipole with clip-out sections to convert to 40m.


Usually antennas got strung from trees or buildings only high as one 
could reach or maybe using a stepladder.  They were NVIS by definition.


I recall some hung only 8 to 12 foot high, yet they worked fine with 
100w.  Not every station could reach HQ so quite a bit of relaying race 
traffic was done (reporting times in/out of checkpoints).  The race 
extends 1100 miles over a 8 to 20-day period as the dog teams varied in 
speed.


Ham radio is no longer used as the officials went to using sat-phones. 
But I was lucky to go out eight years on the trail as ham operator in 
the 1980's.  Used barefoot TS-180S and dipole (plus 600w Honda Gen).


You never lived until you slept in a wall tent at -60F outside (and -15F 
inside the tent).  Radio worked but LCD display took a little time to 
start when cold.


73, Ed - KL7UW
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] ?ELECRAFT NVIS field day?

[Bill Mader]

NVIS information is almost always anecdotal and a myth, more than science!
As I have told many participants in many presentations, "If you think
lowering your antenna will make your signal stronger, expect your QSL cards
to arrive on a unicorn."  How many of you looked at Jim's, K9YC,
explanation?  Probably too few.

40m is near the upper limit of NVIS and currently, it is often below the
NVIS frequency.  At this point in Cycle 25, I frequently can't copy
stations within 150-250 miles away on 40m here in NM.  The ones I copy best
have the highest, NOT lowest, antennas.

Note, as shown in Jim's paper, an 80m dipole at 60 ft. provides the maximum
NVIS signal while at one at 90 ft. is just 1 dB down.  Having operated with
an 80m dipole at 75 ft. on an Air Force RADAR site, my 100 Watt signal was
almost always stronger than those with lower antennas around MI.  Yes, that
is anecdotal, but it agrees with the science as modeled in Jim's paper.

I have yet to read of anyone's scientific data showing their 10 ft. high
dipole worked better than their 30 ft. high dipole on 40m, to say nothing
of similar 80m dipoles.  If you have two WSPR transmitters and have
antennas at these heights, gather some data.  Both transmitters must
transmit the same level signals at the same time over time to collect
meaningful data, assuming everything is equal.

I once worked a station in Italy on 20m SSB with my KX3 using my mobile
antenna.  I did not replace much better antennas at home based on that
anecdote.  Neither have I received any QSL cards on unicorns although I do
have a unicorn graphic in some of my antenna presentations.

73, Bill Mader, K8TE
New Mexico QSO Party 9 Apr 2022
Secretary/Treasurer and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 10-18 Sep 2022
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Fred Jensen]

I'm about 25 km LOS from W7RN.  W7RN is 30 over S9 here on 160, 10 over 
on 80, about S7 on 40 anytime.  I can barely see it on the P3 [and it's 
QRK2 in the noise on the headphones] on 20, and missing above 20.  K2RD 
in SW Reno is a bit closer, but the same prevails for the ground wave 
for Ira.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Jim Brown wrote on 12/17/2021 11:05 PM:

On 12/18/2021 1:09 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote:

Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.


Yes, AND groundwave weakens drastically with increasing frequency. 
With average soil, a station operating on 550 kHz will be 21 dB 
stronger at 100 miles than a station running the same power than one 
operating on 1600 kHz, assuming both are using a single quarter wave 
tower.


73, Jim K9YC




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Alan Bloom]

but having a low antenna goes a long
way toward limiting the contacts you make to NVIS propagation.



I suspect you could accomplish the same result simply by reducing 
transmitter power.


A dipole 1/4 wavelength high has a nearly identical radiation pattern to 
one close to the ground.  It just has less loss.


Alan N1AL


On 12/18/2021 10:28 AM, John Harper wrote:

You might want to consider doing this within the Winter Field Day event.

That's a great suggestion.

Those are correct who say that an antenna (dipole) doesn't have to be low
to the ground to make use of NVIS - but having a low antenna goes a long
way toward limiting the contacts you make to NVIS propagation.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2021/12/nvis-my-own-brief-experience.html
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to a...@elecraft.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[John Harper]

>You might want to consider doing this within the Winter Field Day event.

That's a great suggestion.

Those are correct who say that an antenna (dipole) doesn't have to be low
to the ground to make use of NVIS - but having a low antenna goes a long
way toward limiting the contacts you make to NVIS propagation.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com/2021/12/nvis-my-own-brief-experience.html
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[John Simmons]

For 80M NVIS I put up a 'improved' extended double Zepp (315' long 
designed by N6LF) at 30' with a wire reflector 5% longer buried an inch 
in the ground. There is a 4:1 balun at the center with a coax feedline 
to the shack. Covers entire band under 2:1 SWR. Email for more details 
if desired.



--
73,
-de John NI0K in rural Debs, MN USA
Hamshack Hotline: 610271

email wrote on 12/18/2021 9:10 AM:
I put up an NVIS antenna for 80m a number of years ago.  It works 
great for local 80m nets.
It is a full wave length loop (more square) mounted about 10' above 
the ground.

It is feed with 450 ohm ladderline from a 1:1 current balun at the ATU.
EZNEC shows the radiation is UP.
It also shows gain and not as much UP on 40m and 20m.
I have worked DX on all bands.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 12/18/21 4:09 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote:

--- "In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12
months a year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the 
impression
that 40 meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If 
this is
true, an Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either 
have
room for an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 
meter

antenna that can radiate up."


I think it depends on time of day, time of year, and what part of the
sunspot cycle.  40m is pretty much the top limit for NVIS though. But
sometimes 40 works for NVIS.  That's one of the reasons for our 60m
allocation, NVIS when 40 is too  long and 80m is dead.   OTOH  I've seen
160 too long for statewide coverage at times.

FWIW, I agree a vertical is not an NVIS antenna.  Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.  They are 
totally

different propagation modes.

Ken WA8JXM

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:22 PM David Herring  
wrote:


It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not 
have to
be hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing 
so can

be desirable.

When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF
communications to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 
30 feet
or so, I would frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, 
mainland
US, Canada and elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when 
one is
specifically focused on local comms, that can get to be a problem. 
When I
hung my NVIS dipole down around 10 feet, I still got excellent 
statewide

communications but no longer got calls from afar.

So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX. Both
worked perfectly for their intended use.

In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 
months a
year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression 
that 40
meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is 
true, an
Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have 
room for
an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter 
antenna

that can radiate up.

73,
Dave - N5DCH





On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle 

wrote:

Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and 
NVIS'

desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown 
> wrote:

On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:

What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?
There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. 
This is

totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
several years ago.

http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net 
ju...@juliatuttle.net>

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <

http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 



This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <

http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[email]

I put up an NVIS antenna for 80m a number of years ago.  It works great 
for local 80m nets.
It is a full wave length loop (more square) mounted about 10' above the 
ground.

It is feed with 450 ohm ladderline from a 1:1 current balun at the ATU.
EZNEC shows the radiation is UP.
It also shows gain and not as much UP on 40m and 20m.
I have worked DX on all bands.

73, steve WB3LGC

On 12/18/21 4:09 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote:

--- "In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12
months a year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression
that 40 meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is
true, an Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have
room for an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter
antenna that can radiate up."


I think it depends on time of day, time of year, and what part of the
sunspot cycle.  40m is pretty much the top limit for NVIS though.  But
sometimes 40 works for NVIS.  That's one of the reasons for our 60m
allocation, NVIS when 40 is too  long and 80m is dead.   OTOH  I've seen
160 too long for statewide coverage at times.

FWIW, I agree a vertical is not an NVIS antenna.  Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.  They are totally
different propagation modes.

Ken WA8JXM

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:22 PM David Herring  wrote:


It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not have to
be hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing so can
be desirable.

When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF
communications to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 30 feet
or so, I would frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, mainland
US, Canada and elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when one is
specifically focused on local comms, that can get to be a problem. When I
hung my NVIS dipole down around 10 feet, I still got excellent statewide
communications but no longer got calls from afar.

So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX.  Both
worked perfectly for their intended use.

In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 months a
year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression that 40
meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is true, an
Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have room for
an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter antenna
that can radiate up.

73,
Dave - N5DCH





On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle 

wrote:

Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown 
> wrote:

On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:

What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?

There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
several years ago.

http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net 
ju...@juliatuttle.net>

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <

http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <

http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>

Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Jim Brown]

On 12/18/2021 1:09 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote:

Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.


Yes, AND groundwave weakens drastically with increasing frequency. With 
average soil, a station operating on 550 kHz will be 21 dB stronger at 
100 miles than a station running the same power than one operating on 
1600 kHz, assuming both are using a single quarter wave tower.


73, Jim K9YC
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Ken WA8JXM]

--- "In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12
months a year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression
that 40 meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is
true, an Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have
room for an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter
antenna that can radiate up."


I think it depends on time of day, time of year, and what part of the
sunspot cycle.  40m is pretty much the top limit for NVIS though.  But
sometimes 40 works for NVIS.  That's one of the reasons for our 60m
allocation, NVIS when 40 is too  long and 80m is dead.   OTOH  I've seen
160 too long for statewide coverage at times.

FWIW, I agree a vertical is not an NVIS antenna.  Some people may be
confusing groundwave (usually up to 25 miles) with NVIS.  They are totally
different propagation modes.

Ken WA8JXM

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:22 PM David Herring  wrote:

> It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not have to
> be hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing so can
> be desirable.
>
> When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF
> communications to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 30 feet
> or so, I would frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, mainland
> US, Canada and elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when one is
> specifically focused on local comms, that can get to be a problem. When I
> hung my NVIS dipole down around 10 feet, I still got excellent statewide
> communications but no longer got calls from afar.
>
> So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX.  Both
> worked perfectly for their intended use.
>
> In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 months a
> year. Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression that 40
> meters almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is true, an
> Elecraft NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have room for
> an 80 meter dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter antenna
> that can radiate up.
>
> 73,
> Dave - N5DCH
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle 
> wrote:
> >
> > Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
> > vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
> > desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
> >>> What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> >>> NVIS field day?
> >>
> >> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
> >> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
> >> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
> >> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
> >> several years ago.
> >>
> >> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net  ju...@juliatuttle.net>
> >>
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm  >
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> > Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com  >
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to wa8...@gmail.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[David Herring]

It is absolutely true that antennas intended for NVIS use do not have to be 
hung low.  But they CAN be.  And there are instances where doing so can be 
desirable.

When I lived in Hawaii, we used NVIS for reliable statewide HF communications 
to very good effect.  When I hung my dipole up about 30 feet or so, I would 
frequently get calls from hams in Japan, Oceana, mainland US, Canada and 
elsewhere. Ordinarily that would be nice, but when one is specifically focused 
on local comms, that can get to be a problem. When I hung my NVIS dipole down 
around 10 feet, I still got excellent statewide communications but no longer 
got calls from afar.

So I kept my dipole low for local, and erected a vertical for DX.  Both worked 
perfectly for their intended use.

In Hawaii, 40 meters worked great for NVIS probably 11 out of 12 months a year. 
Someone else who knows can comment, but I got the impression that 40 meters 
almost never works for NVIS in the mainland US.  If this is true, an Elecraft 
NVIS field day might be limited to those who either have room for an 80 meter 
dipole, or who can devise some other kind of 80 meter antenna that can radiate 
up.

73,
Dave - N5DCH




> On Dec 17, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
> vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
> desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?
> 
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  > wrote:
> 
>> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
>>> What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
>>> NVIS field day?
>> 
>> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
>> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
>> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
>> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
>> several years ago.
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net 
>> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
> 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
> 
> Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Julia Tuttle]

Wait, why would people think verticals are good for NVIS? Isn't a
vertical's radiation pattern pretty much "sideways but not up", and NVIS'
desired radiation pattern "up but not sideways"?

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:
> > What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> > NVIS field day?
>
> There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is
> totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for
> NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half
> wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal
> several years ago.
>
> http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to ju...@juliatuttle.net
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Jim Brown]

On 12/17/2021 6:12 AM, Greg Herman wrote:

What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?


There is a major myth regarding NVIS that antennas must be low. This is 
totally false. The facts are that vertical antennas are terrible for 
NVIS, and that horizontal antennas work better up to nearly one-half 
wavelength above ground. This study ran in National Contest Journal 
several years ago.


http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

Re: [Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

Greg,

You might want to consider doing this within the Winter Field Day event.
There are 'indoor', 'outdoor' and 'home' categories.  The next event is Jan
29-30, 2022.  See www.winterfieldday.com for details.

I had fun operating the event in Jan 2021 from a portable beach house site
using a K3/100.  Due to a logging mistake on my part, my score did not get
reported.

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:14 AM Greg Herman  wrote:

> This is just a suggestion and forgive me if I’m not aware of something that
> already exists. What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
> NVIS field day?
>
> As we all know Elecraft plays well with others, and along that theme
> everybody would be welcome to participate  in such a field day event. I’m
> guessing there would be a lot of KX twos and KX3 Yahoo Group all along with
> several other QRP radios and some 100 watt ones. Who knows Wayne might put
> a battery in a K4 and climb a hill.
>
> I have never made it in VIS contact but for emergency preparedness and just
> knowledge I would love to learn a lot about it and having others to
> participate would make it even easier to perhaps relay a message to across
> America
>
> My understanding brief as it is is it 80 meters is one of the better bands
> for NVIS
>
> Perhaps designate different segments of the band for the 0-9 groups
> depending on where you’re from that way you could listen in for your
> neighboring groups
>
> No stress, just good clean fun and an opportunity to learn.
>
> Comments and suggestions welcome
>
> Greg- KC9NRO
>
>
> --
> Have a Great day!
> Greg
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to kilo4...@gmail.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com 

[Elecraft] “ELECRAFT NVIS field day”

[Greg Herman]

This is just a suggestion and forgive me if I’m not aware of something that
already exists. What if there was the annual event called the The Elecraft
NVIS field day?

As we all know Elecraft plays well with others, and along that theme
everybody would be welcome to participate  in such a field day event. I’m
guessing there would be a lot of KX twos and KX3 Yahoo Group all along with
several other QRP radios and some 100 watt ones. Who knows Wayne might put
a battery in a K4 and climb a hill.

I have never made it in VIS contact but for emergency preparedness and just
knowledge I would love to learn a lot about it and having others to
participate would make it even easier to perhaps relay a message to across
America

My understanding brief as it is is it 80 meters is one of the better bands
for NVIS

Perhaps designate different segments of the band for the 0-9 groups
depending on where you’re from that way you could listen in for your
neighboring groups

No stress, just good clean fun and an opportunity to learn.

Comments and suggestions welcome

Greg- KC9NRO


-- 
Have a Great day!
Greg
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com