Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
Or..they have better hearing with a higher frequency response Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:07 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it! With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound. It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all. Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio? Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3. Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
I don't believe that is totally accurate. I'm guessing you're not an active contester. The K3 is pretty good, but it most definitely does not have infinite capability to suit any situation. Last I checked, low level pass band mixing was still an issue, as is the hard audio limit for some. Dave AB7E On 2/26/2015 4:06 AM, Bill wrote: If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it! With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound. It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all. Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio? Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3. Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to xda...@cis-broadband.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
I have the latest per Elecraft (Serial 04841). I hear artifacts on it. I have a friend that has a K3 (Serial 06000). He does not hear artifacts on his rig. I do not hear artifacts on his rig He listens to mine, and hears artifacts. I am sending the K3 to Elecraft to have them sort it out. Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:54 AM To: David Gilbert Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:48 PM, David Gilbert xda...@cis-broadband.com wrote: low level pass band mixing was still an issue If I know exactly what you mean by low level pass band mixing, the multiple weak signal muddle, that problem was decisively cleared up by the firmware significant digit fix for the AGC algorithm. It was a startling improvement in the K3's sound. It was even more startling in what it did for diversity reception of a weak signal pileup. Prior to the fix, the muddle had been removing the aural clues that the brain uses to create a sound stage. Afterwards, wow. At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to take little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain about. Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they were complaining about. They had their theoretical point no question, but apparently the K3 does not live in the range where that point would be invoked. So no harm, no foul. I don't drink KoolAid. Don't believe in it. But there's a bunch that drinks 55 gallon drums of inverse KoolAid. 73, Guy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:48 PM, David Gilbert xda...@cis-broadband.com wrote: low level pass band mixing was still an issue If I know exactly what you mean by low level pass band mixing, the multiple weak signal muddle, that problem was decisively cleared up by the firmware significant digit fix for the AGC algorithm. It was a startling improvement in the K3's sound. It was even more startling in what it did for diversity reception of a weak signal pileup. Prior to the fix, the muddle had been removing the aural clues that the brain uses to create a sound stage. Afterwards, wow. At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to take little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain about. Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they were complaining about. They had their theoretical point no question, but apparently the K3 does not live in the range where that point would be invoked. So no harm, no foul. I don't drink KoolAid. Don't believe in it. But there's a bunch that drinks 55 gallon drums of inverse KoolAid. 73, Guy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
I received a Bose mini soundlink speaker system for my iPod as a gift from the family. One day, I plugged it into the rear headphone jack of the K3 and tuned into a local AM BCB station playing oldies. It sounded terrific, with nice strong bass. I now use it for all of my K3 operating (which is mostly CW). I never thought that I would use a powered speaker on the K3 but the mini sounds nice and it is small and it is stereo, so the sub-receiver comes through on the right channel. I also use it through the Bluetooth connection for my PC and, of course, the iPod. 73, John W2XS Yes, I am OK with the Audio of my K3 (and, my KX3). But, when I am listening to a Beethoven piano Sonata I choose the Bose over the Elecraft. 73, phil, K7PEH -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-perceived-RX-and-TX-audio-tp7599375p7599401.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
On Thu,2/26/2015 11:54 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: At this point, that fix was a long time ago. Elecraft has been working on the K3 for what, seven years now. Any complaint made first 5 years ago is likely long since fixed, though some, with one complaint fixed, seem to take little joy in that and immediately look for something else to complain about. Some people still have a theoretical complaint about one device in the analog RF/IF RX string, but I have never been able to hear anything they were complaining about. I'm retired from a long career in pro audio (including a lot of recordings of acoustic jazz of the highest musical quality) and time in broadcasting. My ears and brain know the difference between broadcast audio, recording quality audio, and ham radio audio. I mostly work CW, but do SSB and RTTY for contesting and DX chasing, as well as WSJT modes for small signal work. My K3s were bought new and have serial numbers in the range of 800 and 1800 (i.e., the first year of production) and get all the firmware updates. I've never been bothered by what I've heard coming out of good quality headphones connected to my K3s, nor with the audio that I'm transmitting. As Riley Hollingsworth has said on more than one occasion, if you want to transmit broadcast quality audio, buy or go to work at a broadcast station. And I will add, if you want to listen to broadcast or recording quality audio, turn on you home entertainment system. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
My two-bits on the topic... I like the audio on my Bose Table-top radio. The music fills the room from the obviously small speakers that it has built-in and it is high quality and high fidelity. But, why in the world would I want or even care about having the same audio fidelity on my K3. I am 90 percent CW and the audio is just fine. I am about 50-50 in using speakers (I have the ComSpeaker pair) and headphones. My headphones are actually cast off older ear buds from my iPhone. For the SSB audio on those times I am using SSB, the audio is just fine. It is the other guys' signals that make up most of the quality or lack of quality in the signal. Yet, if you can understand them, what else do you want. They are not supposed to be singing to you (I think the FCC regs say no music). Yes, I am OK with the Audio of my K3 (and, my KX3). But, when I am listening to a Beethoven piano Sonata I choose the Bose over the Elecraft. 73, phil, K7PEH On Feb 26, 2015, at 10:18 AM, jim jbol...@outlook.com wrote: Or..they have better hearing with a higher frequency response Jim W6AIM -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 3:07 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it! With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound. It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all. Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio? Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3. Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
Sure, merely understanding the words is fine when dealing with brief exchanges of call signs and signal reports. And pumped up, penetrating audio can help pump up your adrenalin if one finds excitement in sporting activities. The quality of comfort is a factor for many when participating in extended conversations. If you find no discomfort in what you hear, that's fine, but don't dismiss those who appreciate listening to audio without discomforting artifacts. Some of us enjoy nothing more than an engaging conversation. The acoustical qualities can be a significant factor in that pleasure. A meal can be better with dinnerware and utensils as opposed to using your hands to eat out of a paper bag. Best regards, Dick - KA5KKT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
Huh? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2015, at 1:38 PM, Dick Dickinson softb...@windstream.net wrote: Sure, merely understanding the words is fine when dealing with brief exchanges of call signs and signal reports. And pumped up, penetrating audio can help pump up your adrenalin if one finds excitement in sporting activities. The quality of comfort is a factor for many when participating in extended conversations. If you find no discomfort in what you hear, that's fine, but don't dismiss those who appreciate listening to audio without discomforting artifacts. Some of us enjoy nothing more than an engaging conversation. The acoustical qualities can be a significant factor in that pleasure. A meal can be better with dinnerware and utensils as opposed to using your hands to eat out of a paper bag. Best regards, Dick - KA5KKT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@tx.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
Sorry to have stirred up so much animosity! I merely wished to point out that the K3 is an extremely capable device, with many menu settings, and should please anyone - if they do their part in setting it up properly. My operating is mostly armchair rag chew - hence, I use a pair of Behringer powered speakers and have my EQ, AGC, and filter settings made to enhance my listening pleasure. I have even given thought to surround sound - however, decided that lightning crashes from all sides might be a little much in the summer. I don't really do more than scratch the surface of what the K3 can do. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
If you don't like the audio from your K3 - you don't have to keep it! With all the various AGC, DSP, and filter settings - and the two equalizers - _your_ K3 can be made to sound any way _you_ want it to sound. It used to be that some radios just plain sounded good or just plain lousy - for whatever reason(s). The K3 can be anything from lousy to excellent - it is all up to the user to make the adjustments. Nothing is fixed in the K3 - there are nearly infinite variables to suit any situation. You can set it up for weak signal CW or resounding armchair copy - the choice is yours. The K3 can do it all. Now, just why is it that I keep seeing mention of the K3's poor audio? Sounds to me like it is more the operator is unable to make the necessary menu selections. Or, more likely, the complainer never actually heard a K3. Now, back to 75 meters and a little Kool-Aide. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio
I'm glad this topic came up since I know My K3 can sound better if I take the time to work through the settings. There are a lot of settings to play with and a lot of them are ones I've never seen on other radios(Plus I was out of radio for a while and how quickly we forget). From: Bill w2...@nycap.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - perceived RX and TX audio Sorry to have stirred up so much animosity! I merely wished to point out that the K3 is an extremely capable device, with many menu settings, and should please anyone - if they do their part in setting it up properly. My operating is mostly armchair rag chew - hence, I use a pair of Behringer powered speakers and have my EQ, AGC, and filter settings made to enhance my listening pleasure. I have even given thought to surround sound - however, decided that lightning crashes from all sides might be a little much in the summer. I don't really do more than scratch the surface of what the K3 can do. Bill W2BLC K-Line __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hlyin...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
