Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Like W4BQF, I can carry on a QSO at 100+ WPM. Personally, I like the tone bout 500 Hz. Don't forget that a square wave is made up of a sine wave + its odd harmonics. The higher the fundamental freq, the higher those first few, and most important, odd harmonics are. This can cause the waveform to lose its sharp edges and sound mushy when there is attenuation of those higher freqs due to hearing loss. Re musical ability, I played clarinet in jr high school and early high school, but gave it up because they required performing in marching band at the weekend football games - this interfered with contesting! I can play a little piano by ear, but never took lessons - one of my regrets... I recall having this CW/music discussion with K1AR and others at the contesting suite in Dayton many years ago - just about everyone in the group had some musical ability. Barry W2UP -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599706.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Sverre, thanks for the interesting information on CW pitch! About 15 to 20 years ago, myself and maybe some 15 other USA hams got into QSO'ing at QRQ. (In my opinion, QRQ is anything over about 60 wpm) I had served in the Navy for 11 years, with six of those years spent on Navy aircraft carriers, mainly in the Gulf of Tonkin. Our berthing spaces were always immediately below the flight deck, toward the rear of the carrier; in other words about ten feet below where Navy aircraft were landing on the steel deck. My 'normal' hearing suffered greatly! When operating QRQ, sometimes with QSO's at around 120 wpm, but mostly 80 wpm, I found that a pitch frequency of about 520 hz was best for me; however as the years wore on, I found going down to around 480 hz was much better (as my hearing continued to decrease due to age!). Now, at age 76, I finally had hearing test done and found my hearing peaks at 375 hz, and 1 kc and 185 hz is 12 dB below that. The so-called advantage of this is that our hearing now also acts as filters for atmospheric static noise above about 800 hz. I think that as we age, all of us lose most of the high frequency audio spectrum and the typical manufacturer's classic sidetone frequency of 700 hz is seldom optimum for the 'over 45' age group. Still, IMO, the 'best' CW pitch is only determined by the individual. 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2015 10:33 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch There is evidence that it is advantageous with a low tone for the pitch (asuming normal hearing). Some studies give evidence for an improvement in recognition rate as the pitch is lowered and it more or less seems to level off at 500 Hz, except for the lowest SNRs where recognition even improves at a pitch of 250 Hz. Some of the research is summarized here (look for paper 2): http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/10/studies-on-morse-code-recognition.html - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599630.ht ml Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to alderm...@windstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
This is all so very helpful, and I am especially thankful to Sverre for that wonderful item from his blog. I am printing that one out and studying it carefully. One aspect of the listening tone frequency has been zerobeating a station. The K3 is the first time in my 52 years operating CW when I could actually do something about it instead of just trying to tune by ear to what I thought was probably about right. My ability to get that right was not very good at 700 Hz. That CWT is the greatest thing since sliced bread! As for tone frequency, I was initially trying to copy at 700 Hz and wondering why I was not doing as well as expected in the ARRL DX CW last weekend. I dropped it to 600 Hz and will experiment this week with 550 Hz and 500 Hz. My thanks to everybody on the Elecraft Reflector. On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:19 AM, Vic Rosenthal k2vco@gmail.com wrote: At 72 I've discovered that my left ear is pretty much worthless above 1 kHz while my right one works up to about 8 kHz. They both seem to have about the same sensitivity below cutoff. When I was a kid I could hear the 15 kHz TV horizontal oscillators clearly (and do a lot of other stuff better, too). My best CW pitch seems to be around 520 or 530 Hz. Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO On Mar 2, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Sun,3/1/2015 10:25 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote: Yes, I've noticed this. I have no real knowledge of why low tones seem to make for better copy in QRM but I have guessed that it has to do with the relative difference in interfering tone for a given offset from the desired signal. If you listen to 1000 Hz (which many ops do) and the interfering signal is 100 Hz away, the difference is only 10%. But if you listen to 400 Hz, the difference is 25%. So the filter in your brain may be more effective distinguishing 400 from 500 Hz than it is in distinguishing 1000 from 1100 Hz. Just a guess. That's my audio professional's best guess too. In general, we humans hear logarithmically. Also, we hear differences in sounds that are separated by some critical bandwidth that is in the range of 1/3 to 1/6 of an octave. An octave is a 2:1 frequency ratio. So figure 2 to the 1/3 power and 2 to the 1/6 power. I set my radios between 500 - 550 Hz. Those with severe high frequency hearing loss might want to try even lower frequency settings. Most (but definitely not all) hearing loss is greatest at the higher frequencies. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k2vco@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
At 72 I've discovered that my left ear is pretty much worthless above 1 kHz while my right one works up to about 8 kHz. They both seem to have about the same sensitivity below cutoff. When I was a kid I could hear the 15 kHz TV horizontal oscillators clearly (and do a lot of other stuff better, too). My best CW pitch seems to be around 520 or 530 Hz. Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO On Mar 2, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Sun,3/1/2015 10:25 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote: Yes, I've noticed this. I have no real knowledge of why low tones seem to make for better copy in QRM but I have guessed that it has to do with the relative difference in interfering tone for a given offset from the desired signal. If you listen to 1000 Hz (which many ops do) and the interfering signal is 100 Hz away, the difference is only 10%. But if you listen to 400 Hz, the difference is 25%. So the filter in your brain may be more effective distinguishing 400 from 500 Hz than it is in distinguishing 1000 from 1100 Hz. Just a guess. That's my audio professional's best guess too. In general, we humans hear logarithmically. Also, we hear differences in sounds that are separated by some critical bandwidth that is in the range of 1/3 to 1/6 of an octave. An octave is a 2:1 frequency ratio. So figure 2 to the 1/3 power and 2 to the 1/6 power. I set my radios between 500 - 550 Hz. Those with severe high frequency hearing loss might want to try even lower frequency settings. Most (but definitely not all) hearing loss is greatest at the higher frequencies. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k2vco@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I may not have knowledge, but i have a theory. People use different bandwidth filters for various reasons, some for what they have and some for hearing more after a CQ and other reasons. If you are listening to a signal at 400 Hertz you also hear QRM that is in your bandpass. If you are using a 200 Hertz filter you hear from 300 to 500 at the rating of your skirt, but you also hear QRM from the bottom of your actjual bandpass to the top of your actual bandpass depending on the actual signal strength. If you are using a wider bandpass it depends on the actual bandpass and the strength of the QRM, so you hear more at higher frequencies than lower. Of course how much you hear lower depends on the low cutoff of your audio which is presumably above zero and below about 3 khz. If you are an audiophyle maybe higher. Noise frequency goes up to the cutoff of your ears or audio. That is my theory and I am sticking to it! Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,TDXS Contest Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS From: Rick Tavan N6XI rta...@gmail.com To: Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) la...@nrrl.no Cc: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, March 2, 2015 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch Yes, I've noticed this. I have no real knowledge of why low tones seem to make for better copy in QRM but I have guessed that it has to do with the relative difference in interfering tone for a given offset from the desired signal. If you listen to 1000 Hz (which many ops do) and the interfering signal is 100 Hz away, the difference is only 10%. But if you listen to 400 Hz, the difference is 25%. So the filter in your brain may be more effective distinguishing 400 from 500 Hz than it is in distinguishing 1000 from 1100 Hz. Just a guess. 73, /Rick N6XI On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) la...@nrrl.no wrote: There is evidence that it is advantageous with a low tone for the pitch (asuming normal hearing). Some studies give evidence for an improvement in recognition rate as the pitch is lowered and it more or less seems to level off at 500 Hz, except for the lowest SNRs where recognition even improves at a pitch of 250 Hz. Some of the research is summarized here (look for paper 2): http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/10/studies-on-morse-code-recognition.html - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599630.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rta...@gmail.com -- Rick Tavan N6XI Truckee, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
These days my ear is perfectly tuned to 1000-Hz. I can whistle it within a few Hz. 45 years of working on radios with 1000-Hz tone modulation. 73, Ed - KL7UW I usually tune CW pitch somewhere near 550 to 700 Hz for weak-signal copying (SNR=0). --- Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch Message-ID: 54f1fb6c.17128.265c...@gdaught6.stanford.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. Yes. I believe that's the universal orchestral tuning pitch. My XYL and I have a running joke. When we go to anything musical, and the orchestra commences tuning, I ask What's that? She says A and we're ready to enjoy another performance. 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2015 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
OTOH: I passed my General about 6 months after getting my Novice. I could have passed the Extra with CW speed to spare except that back then you had to have 2 years of on-air experience before you could sit for it. I can still copy the W1AW 35 WPM on a keyboard. Age however has restricted my hand sending to somewhere between 25 and 30. Beginning in college, I tried to learn to play the piano, and continued for the next 50 years. Operative word in that sentence is tried. We have an old piano. My wife insisted that I practice only when she was gone. When the kids were little, I took some guitar lessons. I learned one song ... Little White Duck which they sang as I played -- slowly. Apparently, the Urban Myth is symmetric ... skill with Morse does not always correlate with musical talent either. For what it is worth, the best pitch for someone may not be right at the peak in their hearing. It definitely isn't for me. My hearing was severely damaged many years ago and the peak for me is around 400 Hz. I'm basically deaf above about 1200 Hz, my hearing aids are at afterburner roar up there. Best CW pitch for me however is 570 Hz. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 3/1/2015 2:22 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: I played in the school band from 5th grade thru 12th (played clarinet and oboe). I was member of the church choir. I play classical guitar...and never got better than 12wpm copying CW. But my musical background likely made sending easy (18-20wpm with straight key). So goes another urban myth. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I played in the school band from 5th grade thru 12th (played clarinet and oboe). I was member of the church choir. I play classical guitar...and never got better than 12wpm copying CW. But my musical background likely made sending easy (18-20wpm with straight key). So goes another urban myth. Of course if I could have held my Novice longer than one year that might have helped vs getting a tech license and being banned to 6m-up which was mainly AM way back then. More likely was due to my initial interest in voice vs CW. After three years of failed CW exams at the FCC office (long before VE program or multiple-guess code tests - one minute perfect copy of five character groups of random text/punctuation/numbers). We lived 5 miles too close to take the Conditional license. But I passed in 1982 (24-years later) before the FCC at the Anchorage Office because I wanted to go out on the Iditarod Trail as a ham radio checkpoint volunteer. Comms were on 80/40m SSB so you had to have a General License. CW test made much easier to pass in 1982 with real text and multiple-choice testing on content. I also took and passed my Advanced in same sitting. Passed Extra in 2000 when code requirement was dropped to 13wpm. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I like the pitch around 400-500. It is all operator preference. Mike W0MU On 3/1/2015 3:28 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: These days my ear is perfectly tuned to 1000-Hz. I can whistle it within a few Hz. 45 years of working on radios with 1000-Hz tone modulation. 73, Ed - KL7UW I usually tune CW pitch somewhere near 550 to 700 Hz for weak-signal copying (SNR=0). --- Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch Message-ID: 54f1fb6c.17128.265c...@gdaught6.stanford.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. Yes. I believe that's the universal orchestral tuning pitch. My XYL and I have a running joke. When we go to anything musical, and the orchestra commences tuning, I ask What's that? She says A and we're ready to enjoy another performance. 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2015 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w...@w0mu.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Ted, the filter frequency is band width, but can be centered with tuning. IE you can use the 700 filter to hear 200 to 900 with the center at 550 or 300 to 1000 with the center at 650 as you choose and tune. The CWT on the K3 will center it for you, but you will not need to do this unless you prefer. Most of us like about 550 to 600, but this is a survey, not fixed so you can do what works best for you and probably should. That is the center frequency we are talking about. Choose the filter for easy tuning and QRM/QRN reduction. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,TDXS Contest Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS From: Ted Edwards W3TB w3tb@gmail.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 1:29 PM Subject: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Phil, I would try both and somewhere in between. Best will be the frequency where your hearing peaks, optimum will consider other things, but you will still be able to hear. Adjust your volume and practice at the best frequency and see if you can make it optimum as well. You may be able to change optimum, but probably not the best frequency. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,TDXS Contest Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS From: Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch Re I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum Best is not the same as optimum? That puzzles me. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 1:42 PM, David Cole wrote: Hi, If you have an older hearing test, use the most recent one, and see what part of the audio spectrum you hear best at, within the allowed spectrum of the K3. Then select that frequency. I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum, and many db away as well. After changing it, I copy CW much better. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
My mom signed me up for violin lessons when I was about 7 or 8. I hated it and quit shortly after. In hindsight (20-20) I wish I would have stayed with it. In high school a friend was a drummer in the band. He wanted to take up sax but the *hole director wouldn't let him because he needed drummers for the marching band. My buddy convinced me to become a drummer so he could take up sax. Of course, you don't need to read much music to play snare drum in a marching band so my skill was limited. although I did play timpani in the orchestra so I read (past tense) a little. I was interested in radio even before high school so when I got there I met a guy who had been a (lapsed) Novice and learned a little more about it. We formed a radio club and since the principal was a Lt. Cmdr in the Navy reserve and CO of the local center, the faculty advisor was able to tape record the Navy's code practice records. The club would meet only once a week to practice code. Needless to say this wasn't often enough and we would start from the beginning meeting after meeting. I grew tired of this and wound up learning the code by sight from my 1954 Boy Scout Handbook (I still have it). As a consequence I never became proficient. I took my Novice and then Conditional exams from a neighbor (W7UVR sk). All was good for some time. I became interested in weak signal VHF work and got into 2-meter tropo and meteor scatter. Schedules were set up on the Central States VHF Society net on the high end of 75-meters. At some point it was decided for QRM reasons to relocate the net to the Advanced Class part of the band. Uh oh, incentive licensing reared its head and I needed to upgrade. The next time the RI came to town I was ready to take the Advanced exam. Since I had credit for 13 WPM already I didn't have to take the code test and didn't practice. After passing the exam I asked the examiner whether I could try the Extra. He said, sure sit over there, the test will start in a few minutes. When the test began I completely choked. I wadded up my paper and threw it in the trash. The examiner said that he needed to see it anyway. He was very kind and said something like, I'm afraid I can't get much out of this. I was humiliated and vowed to pass the exam the next time the FCC came to town., which I did. But I'm still neither a musician or a fast CW man. Wes N7WS On 3/1/2015 3:22 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: I played in the school band from 5th grade thru 12th (played clarinet and oboe). I was member of the church choir. I play classical guitar...and never got better than 12wpm copying CW. But my musical background likely made sending easy (18-20wpm with straight key). So goes another urban myth. Of course if I could have held my Novice longer than one year that might have helped vs getting a tech license and being banned to 6m-up which was mainly AM way back then. More likely was due to my initial interest in voice vs CW. After three years of failed CW exams at the FCC office (long before VE program or multiple-guess code tests - one minute perfect copy of five character groups of random text/punctuation/numbers). We lived 5 miles too close to take the Conditional license. But I passed in 1982 (24-years later) before the FCC at the Anchorage Office because I wanted to go out on the Iditarod Trail as a ham radio checkpoint volunteer. Comms were on 80/40m SSB so you had to have a General License. CW test made much easier to pass in 1982 with real text and multiple-choice testing on content. I also took and passed my Advanced in same sitting. Passed Extra in 2000 when code requirement was dropped to 13wpm. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Yes, I've noticed this. I have no real knowledge of why low tones seem to make for better copy in QRM but I have guessed that it has to do with the relative difference in interfering tone for a given offset from the desired signal. If you listen to 1000 Hz (which many ops do) and the interfering signal is 100 Hz away, the difference is only 10%. But if you listen to 400 Hz, the difference is 25%. So the filter in your brain may be more effective distinguishing 400 from 500 Hz than it is in distinguishing 1000 from 1100 Hz. Just a guess. 73, /Rick N6XI On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) la...@nrrl.no wrote: There is evidence that it is advantageous with a low tone for the pitch (asuming normal hearing). Some studies give evidence for an improvement in recognition rate as the pitch is lowered and it more or less seems to level off at 500 Hz, except for the lowest SNRs where recognition even improves at a pitch of 250 Hz. Some of the research is summarized here (look for paper 2): http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/10/studies-on-morse-code-recognition.html - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599630.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rta...@gmail.com -- Rick Tavan N6XI Truckee, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
On Sun,3/1/2015 10:25 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote: Yes, I've noticed this. I have no real knowledge of why low tones seem to make for better copy in QRM but I have guessed that it has to do with the relative difference in interfering tone for a given offset from the desired signal. If you listen to 1000 Hz (which many ops do) and the interfering signal is 100 Hz away, the difference is only 10%. But if you listen to 400 Hz, the difference is 25%. So the filter in your brain may be more effective distinguishing 400 from 500 Hz than it is in distinguishing 1000 from 1100 Hz. Just a guess. That's my audio professional's best guess too. In general, we humans hear logarithmically. Also, we hear differences in sounds that are separated by some critical bandwidth that is in the range of 1/3 to 1/6 of an octave. An octave is a 2:1 frequency ratio. So figure 2 to the 1/3 power and 2 to the 1/6 power. I set my radios between 500 - 550 Hz. Those with severe high frequency hearing loss might want to try even lower frequency settings. Most (but definitely not all) hearing loss is greatest at the higher frequencies. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
There is evidence that it is advantageous with a low tone for the pitch (asuming normal hearing). Some studies give evidence for an improvement in recognition rate as the pitch is lowered and it more or less seems to level off at 500 Hz, except for the lowest SNRs where recognition even improves at a pitch of 250 Hz. Some of the research is summarized here (look for paper 2): http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/10/studies-on-morse-code-recognition.html - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599630.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Ted, I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. The only real concern in selecting a preferred pitch is that the K3 will set the center of your CW filter so that Fc-[BW/2] is no lower than 200 Hz. If you select a center frequency less than 550 Hz, your 700Hz filter will be offset to the high side. For example, if you select 450 Hz the 700 Hz filter will cover 200-900 Hz not 100 to 800 Hz. That's not a big issue with wider filters but just something to be aware of when selecting filters and nominal sidetone frequencies. I tend to prefer 490 (it's close to B4 [493 = B4]) which works with any of the normal Elecraft CW filters (500, 400, 250 or 200). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-02-28 2:29 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote: I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
In my youth as a cellist, we always used A 442 or 443Hz. Exception was if there was a piano, then we were of course constrained to 440 (and a tempered scale). The slightly sharp tuning always sounded better to me. 73, Josh W6XU Sent from my mobile device On Feb 28, 2015, at 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast dhh...@comcast.net wrote: A: 440 Is what the concertmaster uses to tune the orchestra. Really easy to listen to for long periods. BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My $.02 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Just some fun on this... About 40 years ago, I used to teach Special Ed Electrical Shop to deaf/multiple-handicapped teens. Some had very profound hearing loss. One day I was playing with a keying practice oscillator, and one girl started to screech. We figured out that she had hearing at 3000-3300 Hz and not much else. SO, I taught her to copy CW at that frequency; she got a novice, and we just had to handle the very high offset using separate transmitter and receiver. It opened a whole new world of communication for her! And these years later, I have no idea where she is. Thanks for all that good help with the pitch tone, everyone. and 73. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:09 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB w3tb@gmail.com wrote: Thank you all for those answers from all over the Elecraft World. I am going to move down to about 550 Hz and see how that works out. My hearing is not too bad, but it is not all it could be after many years in noisy ships of the Navy. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Mike K2MK k...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Ted, I'm very happy with 420 Hz. 73, Mike K2MK I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599547.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Pitch is personal, Ted -- if your hearing is compromised (age, for example) a lower pitch can work a bit better. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 11:29 AM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote: I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Thank you all for those answers from all over the Elecraft World. I am going to move down to about 550 Hz and see how that works out. My hearing is not too bad, but it is not all it could be after many years in noisy ships of the Navy. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Mike K2MK k...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Ted, I'm very happy with 420 Hz. 73, Mike K2MK I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599547.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3tb@gmail.com -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I’ve been singing in choirs since I was 12 and I find Morse insanely hard. Luckily, it was no longer necessary for professional use after the Viterbi decoder was invented in 1970. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Maybe you didn't sing at your optimum Morse code pitch :-) Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 4:19 PM, Walter Underwood wrote: I’ve been singing in choirs since I was 12 and I find Morse insanely hard. Luckily, it was no longer necessary for professional use after the Viterbi decoder was invented in 1970. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I use different pitches at different times. Lower pitches are better if you are trying to discriminate between two very closely spaced signals. Higher pitches may be better under some conditions. It may be worthwhile to change the pitch from time to time just for variety... I wish I could tune the pitch while listening to the effect on the actual signal conditions (and keeping the signal centered in the passband). But when PITCH is engaged the on-air signals are muted on the K3, even if the MON volume is set to zero. BTW, for the K2 I wrote down the filter alignments for several different pitches and could re-enter them pretty quickly. It took about a minute to change pitches this way, if I recall... 73, Drew AF2Z On Sat, 28 Feb 2015 14:29:31 -0500, you wrote: I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Hi Ted, I'm very happy with 420 Hz. 73, Mike K2MK I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/CW-listening-pitch-tp7599535p7599547.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] CW listening pitch
A: 440 Is what the concertmaster uses to tune the orchestra. Really easy to listen to for long periods. BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My $.02 YMMV 73 de N1LQ-Dave __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I played clarinet in the 6th grade -- hated it. I was a mathematician (programming a lot of mathematical applications and other things). And I still love mathematics because Mathematical Physics is my primary hobby (or, passion). Ham radio comes second except in the summer ham radio could count as third to woodworking as second. I learned CW when I was 9 years old. By the time (much later) when I took my Novice test, I was probably copying more than the 13 wpm required of the General class. This is off-topic so far -- but my tone frequency of choice is 640 Hz. phil K7PEH On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Years ago I went to 440 (I believe this is middle C) and at 82, still using it. Works for me. 73 Don K5AQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-02-28 4:05 PM, Don Hall wrote: Years ago I went to 440 (I believe this is middle C) and at 82, still using it. Works for me. 73 Don K5AQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Add in 350 Hz to that and you have a dial tone. (Really!) 73, Mike ab3ap On 02/28/2015 04:14 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: 440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-02-28 4:05 PM, Don Hall wrote: Years ago I went to 440 (I believe this is middle C) and at 82, still using it. Works for me. 73 Don K5AQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Hi, If you have an older hearing test, use the most recent one, and see what part of the audio spectrum you hear best at, within the allowed spectrum of the K3. Then select that frequency. I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum, and many db away as well. After changing it, I copy CW much better. -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 14:51 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote: Ted, On the K3 or KX3, just hold the pitch button and adjust it to your preferred listening pitch - that is all there is to it. The K3 will adjust the filter centers accordingly, you don't have to do anything else. I cannot tell you what is the best pitch for you. All I can say is the default is 600 Hz, but use your own ears to see what is best for you. Now on the K2 it is a bit different - the CW filters do need to be realigned to center them on the new sidetone pitch, but you are not dealing with a K2. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/28/2015 2:29 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote: I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Re I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum Best is not the same as optimum? That puzzles me. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 1:42 PM, David Cole wrote: Hi, If you have an older hearing test, use the most recent one, and see what part of the audio spectrum you hear best at, within the allowed spectrum of the K3. Then select that frequency. I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum, and many db away as well. After changing it, I copy CW much better. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Hi, I misstated: Should have been the best was several hundred HZ away from what I thought was optimum... I did a number of tests to see what I liked, vs what was best based on my ear pass-band, (based on the hearing test), my best guess was 680, my best based on ear pass-band was closer to 490. The 490 is far batter than my best guess was. I had actually placed the CW side tone in a narrow -15 db null, almost exactly. I asked the audiologist about that, and she indicated it might be related to me never actually hearing anything much at 680 Hz, and the perception that when I set CW to the null it seemed in the clear for me. I have verified that I copy better at 490, vs 680 Hz, by setting zero and listening to similar stations at high speed and looking at my copy. -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 14:01 -0800, Phil Wheeler wrote: Re I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum Best is not the same as optimum? That puzzles me. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 1:42 PM, David Cole wrote: Hi, If you have an older hearing test, use the most recent one, and see what part of the audio spectrum you hear best at, within the allowed spectrum of the K3. Then select that frequency. I had a hearing test, and the best frequency was several hundred HZ away from my optimum, and many db away as well. After changing it, I copy CW much better. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] CW listening pitch
I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. -- 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW and thinking about operating CW: Do today what others won't, so you can do tomorrow what others can't. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Ted, On the K3 or KX3, just hold the pitch button and adjust it to your preferred listening pitch - that is all there is to it. The K3 will adjust the filter centers accordingly, you don't have to do anything else. I cannot tell you what is the best pitch for you. All I can say is the default is 600 Hz, but use your own ears to see what is best for you. Now on the K2 it is a bit different - the CW filters do need to be realigned to center them on the new sidetone pitch, but you are not dealing with a K2. 73, Don W3FPR On 2/28/2015 2:29 PM, Ted Edwards W3TB wrote: I like to use the CWT function when operating CW and then the Spot button to zero-beat. I have been using 700 Hz as the pitch but would like to hear a lower frequency audio tone for my own preference. What is the mind of the Reflector on a best tone frequency and related to whether it has any impact on the roofing filter selections? I have the 700Hz/5-pole, the 400 Hz/8-pole, and the 200 Hz/5-pole. And thank you all ahead of time for your answers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
The message does not include pitch, but it is my opinion from years of copying cw that the best pitch is a function of the listeners hearing. It is worth some effort to determine the best pitch for your ears, as we get older we have dead spots which are a function of your experience, so while I like around 550 to 600, you may like a different pitch as if you are trying to copy a frequency that is in your dead spot, you may have a harder time than if you move it some. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke,TDXS Contest Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS From: Phil Kane k2...@kanafi.org To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
Except that when you play them back, your local system will color it... Best process is to copy W1AW, find a weak feed, and see which tone works best for you... -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 19:16 -0600, Matt Murphy wrote: This website will let you generate an equal loudness curve for your own hearing: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html 73, Matt NQ6N/9 On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote: I played clarinet in the 6th grade -- hated it. I was a mathematician (programming a lot of mathematical applications and other things). And I still love mathematics because Mathematical Physics is my primary hobby (or, passion). Ham radio comes second except in the summer ham radio could count as third to woodworking as second. I learned CW when I was 9 years old. By the time (much later) when I took my Novice test, I was probably copying more than the 13 wpm required of the General class. This is off-topic so far -- but my tone frequency of choice is 640 Hz. phil K7PEH On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to m...@nq6n.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
This website will let you generate an equal loudness curve for your own hearing: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html 73, Matt NQ6N/9 On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote: I played clarinet in the 6th grade -- hated it. I was a mathematician (programming a lot of mathematical applications and other things). And I still love mathematics because Mathematical Physics is my primary hobby (or, passion). Ham radio comes second except in the summer ham radio could count as third to woodworking as second. I learned CW when I was 9 years old. By the time (much later) when I took my Novice test, I was probably copying more than the 13 wpm required of the General class. This is off-topic so far -- but my tone frequency of choice is 640 Hz. phil K7PEH On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to m...@nq6n.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
That is interesting; but mine has been professionally calibrated :-) Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 5:16 PM, Matt Murphy wrote: This website will let you generate an equal loudness curve for your own hearing: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html 73, Matt NQ6N/9 On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com mailto:phys...@mac.com wrote: I played clarinet in the 6th grade -- hated it. I was a mathematician (programming a lot of mathematical applications and other things). And I still love mathematics because Mathematical Physics is my primary hobby (or, passion). Ham radio comes second except in the summer ham radio could count as third to woodworking as second. I learned CW when I was 9 years old. By the time (much later) when I took my Novice test, I was probably copying more than the 13 wpm required of the General class. This is off-topic so far -- but my tone frequency of choice is 640 Hz. phil K7PEH On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com mailto:w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
That's OK, as I would find singing insanely hard. -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 16:19 -0800, Walter Underwood wrote: I’ve been singing in choirs since I was 12 and I find Morse insanely hard. Luckily, it was no longer necessary for professional use after the Viterbi decoder was invented in 1970. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Feb 28, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: I failed clarinet, but am a mathematician, or was. That seems to have worked. Phil W7OX On 2/28/15 3:27 PM, Phil Kane wrote: On 2/28/2015 2:44 PM, David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: BTW there really is a strong correlation between learning to play music and learning CW. Not a direct one.but similar My late brother (KU2P / 4X1AK) was a clarinetist as well as a programmer, and taught himself CW with no problems. May he rest in peace. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. Yes. I believe that's the universal orchestral tuning pitch. My XYL and I have a running joke. When we go to anything musical, and the orchestra commences tuning, I ask What's that? She says A and we're ready to enjoy another performance. 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2015 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] CW listening pitch
440 Hz is A above middle-C. Middle C is 261.6 Hz. Yes. I believe that's the universal orchestral tuning pitch. My XYL and I have a running joke. When we go to anything musical, and the orchestra commences tuning, I ask What's that? She says A and we're ready to enjoy another performance. 73, George T Daughters, K6GT CU in the California QSO Party (CQP) October 3-4, 2015 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
