[Elecraft] Giving Up
One thing I didn't see mention unless I missed it, is customer service. To me that weights a lot more than just the specs of the rig. I remember the days of National, Collins, Drake & the REAL Ten-Tec & you got a good rig with very excellent customer service. There are some really nice rigs on the market today, but Elecraft in my opinion is tops in customer service. They listen to their customers & do their best to satisfy them whether it be a firmware change or hardware fix. I'm sure most on here will agree & already know this from experience but thought I bring it up since I believe specs are not all that is important when choosing to buy a new rig. 73, Reed Fite W4JZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Bill, I know you are tired of waiting, so get out of the way? I'm ready for my K4... -- 73, William KT5TE On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 10:34:43 PM CDT Bill Johnson wrote: > I prefer those who are tired of waiting, give up so if your in front of me, > I will move up! Bill > K9YEQ > > Have a great day! > Bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I prefer those who are tired of waiting, give up so if your in front of me, I will move up! Bill K9YEQ Have a great day! Bill From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Barry Simpson Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:59:13 AM To: Dave Erickson Cc: Elecraft Mailing List Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up Well said Dave I am a rig tragic like you and many others. I have always got to buy and try all the newest rigs and then move them on if I am not that smitten. My current rigs/keepers are a K3 (2008 vintage), TS890, Omni 6+, Orion 2 (three of those !), SunSDR2DX. Been and gone rigs include the IC7851, IC7610, TS990 (only because it got too heavy for me so I got the TS890), MB1, Flex 6600M and a number of others. I have not yet succumbed to the FTDX101 or the FTDX10 but may give one or the other a try. However, one of my main requirements is good quiet QSK so I am not sure that the Yaesu is suitable and the bandscope strikes me as horrible. I too have had a no deposit K4D on order for about two years. I intend to just let the order sit there and see if anything eventually happens and if it does I expect I will buy it !! Barry VK2BJ On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 13:28, Dave Erickson wrote: > On 6/8/2021 12:25 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: > > Not so, Doug. > > > > My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's > > $5,722 in today's dollars. > > > > A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal > > compared to a K3. > > > > The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when > > answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no > > meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word has > > relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. > > > > 73, > > > > Kent K9ZTV > > > > > > On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: > >> ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most > >> expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was > >> very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with > >> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. > > . > > All, > > I followed along this thread and I think it's not useful to compare the > K4 to the K3. The K3 to the K2 makes sense, even a KX3 to a K3 as they > are more similar. > > I think the only radio on the market right now that can be compared to > the K4 is the 7610 from ICOM. And frankly, it's not so good for the K4. > > A little over a year ago, I was in the market for a high end transceiver > and basically decided between waiting for a K4 or buy a 7610. I bought > the Icom. While I am sure the K4 is a better radio in some ways, the > question is: is it twice as good? (Add tuner, second ADC, etc.) > > Looking at the specs, I am shocked the K4 is shipping with only one ADC. > At the price point and with the 7610 on the market for $2900 all day > long it's a serious flaw for me. > > The K4 also has no pre-selector that I can tell and that is useful too > me at times, especially on the low bands. > > IMO the competition for the K4 is the 7610 as they are architecturally > very similar. > > Maybe an Apache ANON 7000 DLE would be in there as well but the Icom > beats that too IMO. (Since it has buttons, and a tuner, and pin-diode > QSK etc) > > That said, I have since bought a K3 to go with the 7610 and will likely > get a K4 and an ANON in the future so I am as hopeless as the rest. > > 73's all. > > -- > Dave Erickson > AB0R > 73 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to vk...@optusnet.com.au __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k9...@live.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Blasphemer... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net On 6/9/21 4:38 PM, Richards wrote: as if Elecraft is all good and without fault __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Mr. Brown and a few others repeatedly claim Yaesu rigs cause all sorts of noise, yet fail to substantiate or provide serious proof beyond quoting Rob Sherwood NC0B who,. purportedly, has a neighbor with a noisy FT3000, and mentioning early FT1000s which Yaesu eventually fixed along the way. Mr. Brown accumulated graphs published by the ARRL Lab, which are interesting, yet fail to prove the point - mostly, I am told, because the problem involves a DIFFERENT TYPE of noise, which ARRL Lab Chief Allison told me was not being measured, although it had plans to do so in the future. Thus, these claims are essentially anecdotal hearsay with several ops merely repeating what others have said. Without serious technical substantiation, these claims are somewhat reckless with undue chilling effect on owning and using Yaesu and other brand radios, as if Elecraft is all good and without fault. I was truly impressed and caught off guard when Mr. Wayne at Elecraft admitted its transmitters are using old-school technology and could stand much improvement, along with the rest of the crowd - a frankly humble and forthright statement which earned my respect. I live in a fairly large metropolitan area with a lot of other hams, and no one is complaining about noisy transmitters from any brand. This seems to be an obsession of a very few hams who enjoy mounting the soap box. I wish everyone would be as careful and as measured expressing their take. as Mr. Wayne. K8JHR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
You need to go back and read what I wrote. On 6/9/2021 6:14 AM, Skip Davis via Elecraft wrote: Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks on the front left hand side :) Skip Davis, NC9O Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
With the top tier radios all being so good, what interests me is how my head feels after a few hours of picking out signals. 73 Josh W6XU Sent from my iPad > On Jun 9, 2021, at 12:03 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote: > > the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3. The K4 audio > is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a > pileup calls. That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I am not active in CW, most of my HF work is voice. I do some contesting but I have conflicting time demands that make it difficult to spend a lot of time in the operating chair. The K3 has been my rig of choice and I am very comfortable with the rig.I am of course intrigued by the K4. Improved audio alone would be a reason to upgrade. My biggest concern with the K3 is the quality of the audio. It has a tinny, harsh sound that can wear on you if you are in the contesting chair for long hours. I have moderated the sound by use of a pair of Sounds Sweet speakers and I bring those bulky beasts with me when I go into the field. I am looking for an opportunity to compare the K3 and K4 side by side. I also want to see how the K4HD shakes out. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Bob Wilson, N6TV Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:02 AM To: Doug Person Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up Doug, You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead. Be sure to be aware of its limitations before you buy it. For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me), despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table: - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled, same problem as the IC-7300) - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests) - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think). K4 supports this very well As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3. The K4 audio is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a pileup calls. That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement. The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no ringing. 73, Bob, N6TV On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person wrote: > Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far > down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. > First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it > one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize > that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never > take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a > new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers > substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to > do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. > Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm > not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. > I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is > unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance > just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete > K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the > waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and > whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 > less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. > After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for > me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every > other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I > would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I > apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving > the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called > Vaporware. > > Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s. > > Doug -- K0DXV > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > n...@arrl.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gt...@seanet.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://m
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
>>>the FTdx101D will blur the dits together...John K7FD<<< This morning I've tried replicating the issue with my straight key sending dits as fast as I can (~23 wpm), a bug at something over 40 wpm, and by hooking up a paddle as cootie (not a cootie user myself). On the cootie, that fastest burst of dits I can physically produce I estimate to be roughly 37wpm comparing to dits from a keyer set to that speed. I get no blurring listing to the side tone or listening on another rig while transmitting with the MP. I know you've also complained about how your side tone sounds. Mine does not sound like a pure sign wave, but sounds very similar to actual signals heard over the air. Of course actual signals are not pure sign tones, either at their origin or coming out of the RX. (phase noise, non-linearities, and all that...) FWIW: I basically only operate CW, mainly paddles and keyer, and sometimes a straight key. I'm very hesitant to inflict my bug fist on anyone. Lou W7HV On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 10:10:07 AM MDT, John Nicholson wrote: It appears to sense the spacing within each character sent. If manually sent CW is over 22 wpm…and the spacing is close enough…the FTdx101D will blur the dits together. The letter ‘H’ turns into a long dash. No other radio I have here (thirteen) does this. I recorded spectrum scope videos on a separate receiver and sent them to Yaesu. Their response was ‘use a paddle and don’t bother us.’ But I’m over it; I just use my IC-7610 or RGO One when I use my cootie :) John K7FD > On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:02 AM, Louandzip via Elecraft > wrote: > > > rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a > solid dash over 22 wpm... > John K7FD<<< > How does it know you're using a cootie? I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key > or a bug, sometimes operating 35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. > Straight key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the > rig know the diff? > An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher > yet. > > Lou W7HV > On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft > wrote: > > Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks > on the front left hand side :) > > Skip Davis, NC9O > Sent from my iPhone > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
It appears to sense the spacing within each character sent. If manually sent CW is over 22 wpm…and the spacing is close enough…the FTdx101D will blur the dits together. The letter ‘H’ turns into a long dash. No other radio I have here (thirteen) does this. I recorded spectrum scope videos on a separate receiver and sent them to Yaesu. Their response was ‘use a paddle and don’t bother us.’ But I’m over it; I just use my IC-7610 or RGO One when I use my cootie :) John K7FD > On Jun 9, 2021, at 8:02 AM, Louandzip via Elecraft > wrote: > > > rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a > solid dash over 22 wpm... > John K7FD<<< > How does it know you're using a cootie? I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key > or a bug, sometimes operating 35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. > Straight key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the > rig know the diff? > An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher > yet. > > Lou W7HV >On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft > wrote: > > Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks > on the front left hand side :) > > Skip Davis, NC9O > Sent from my iPhone > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/9/21 at 3:01 AM, n...@arrl.net (Bob Wilson, N6TV) commented: The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no ringing. I frequently run my K3 with a 250 Hz crystal filter and the DSP at 50 or 100 on a weak CW signal in crowded conditions. While the K4 audio may be significantly better, the K3 is no slouch in this configuration and most of the time it beats the audio peaking filter. [Still waiting for the kit. :-)] 73 Bill AE6JV - Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: "Produced | Periwinkle (408)348-7900 | in a facility that processes | 150 Rivermead Rd #235 www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts." - Duh | Peterborough, NH 03458 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a solid dash over 22 wpm... John K7FD<<< How does it know you're using a cootie? I exceed 22 wpm with a straight key or a bug, sometimes operating 35wpm and higher the latter with no probs. Straight key, cootie, or bug are all just a contact closure. How would the rig know the diff? An external keyer is still essentially a contact closure and will go higher yet. Lou W7HV On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:15:12 AM MDT, Skip Davis via Elecraft wrote: Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks on the front left hand side :) Skip Davis, NC9O Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Wes I don’t know about your K3 except mine has both a Mic and Headphone jacks on the front left hand side :) Skip Davis, NC9O Sent from my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
For me, there are two more FTdx101D CW operator show stoppers. Fourth show stopper: CW sidetone is not a pure tone. T8 not T9. Fifth show stopper: rig will not key properly with a sideswiper key. Dits merge becoming a solid dash over 22 wpm. Yaesu is aware of both issues. I was told to go pound sand. John K7FD > On Jun 9, 2021, at 12:03 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote: > > Doug, > > You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead. Be sure to be > aware of its limitations before you buy it. > > For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me), > despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table: > > - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled, > same problem as the IC-7300) > - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of > your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests) > - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think). K4 > supports this very well > > As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in > the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3. The K4 audio > is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a > pileup calls. That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement. > The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in > the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no > ringing. > > 73, > Bob, N6TV > > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person wrote: >> >> Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down >> the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, >> there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the >> most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 >> is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything >> away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of >> performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their >> game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 >> did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many >> ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it >> was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with >> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point >> the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete >> K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the >> waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and >> whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 >> less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. >> After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, >> the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other >> significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump >> on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if >> feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since >> I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware. >> >> Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s. >> >> Doug -- K0DXV >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to n...@arrl.net >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/9/2021 12:01 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote: As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3. The K4 audio is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a pileup calls. That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement. The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no ringing. Note that Bob, like K6XX, is a serious engineer (retired from IBM) and TOP CW contester. Both are friends. TV is retired, XX is a manufacturing engineer at Elecraft. XX is also a serious SSB contester. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Doug, You didn't mention what rig you are going to buy instead. Be sure to be aware of its limitations before you buy it. For example, the FTdx101MP has three show-stoppers (for a CW op like me), despite it's impressive numbers in the Sherwood table: - Poor QSK performance (the clicking keying relay cannot be disabled, same problem as the IC-7300) - No CW sidetone output on USB Audio CODEC-- cannot record both ends of your QSOs (a contest requirement in some contests) - Mouse wheel is not supported for fine tuning or RIT (I think). K4 supports this very well As for comparing the K4 to the K3, despite the K3's "superior" numbers in the Sherwood table, the K4 SOUNDS so much better than any K3. The K4 audio is just SO CLEAN compared to the K3, which makes a big difference when a pileup calls. That quality is not captured by any subjective measurement. The narrow DSP filters (down to 50 Hz) also seem to work so much better in the K4 than the narrow 250 or 200 Hz crystal filters in the K3 -- no ringing. 73, Bob, N6TV On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 7:34 PM Doug Person wrote: > Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down > the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, > there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the > most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 > is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything > away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of > performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their > game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 > did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many > ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it > was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with > the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point > the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete > K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the > waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and > whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 > less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. > After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, > the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other > significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump > on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if > feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since > I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware. > > Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s. > > Doug -- K0DXV > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@arrl.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Well said Dave I am a rig tragic like you and many others. I have always got to buy and try all the newest rigs and then move them on if I am not that smitten. My current rigs/keepers are a K3 (2008 vintage), TS890, Omni 6+, Orion 2 (three of those !), SunSDR2DX. Been and gone rigs include the IC7851, IC7610, TS990 (only because it got too heavy for me so I got the TS890), MB1, Flex 6600M and a number of others. I have not yet succumbed to the FTDX101 or the FTDX10 but may give one or the other a try. However, one of my main requirements is good quiet QSK so I am not sure that the Yaesu is suitable and the bandscope strikes me as horrible. I too have had a no deposit K4D on order for about two years. I intend to just let the order sit there and see if anything eventually happens and if it does I expect I will buy it !! Barry VK2BJ On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 13:28, Dave Erickson wrote: > On 6/8/2021 12:25 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: > > Not so, Doug. > > > > My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's > > $5,722 in today's dollars. > > > > A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal > > compared to a K3. > > > > The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when > > answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no > > meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word has > > relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. > > > > 73, > > > > Kent K9ZTV > > > > > > On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: > >> ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most > >> expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was > >> very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with > >> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. > > . > > All, > > I followed along this thread and I think it's not useful to compare the > K4 to the K3. The K3 to the K2 makes sense, even a KX3 to a K3 as they > are more similar. > > I think the only radio on the market right now that can be compared to > the K4 is the 7610 from ICOM. And frankly, it's not so good for the K4. > > A little over a year ago, I was in the market for a high end transceiver > and basically decided between waiting for a K4 or buy a 7610. I bought > the Icom. While I am sure the K4 is a better radio in some ways, the > question is: is it twice as good? (Add tuner, second ADC, etc.) > > Looking at the specs, I am shocked the K4 is shipping with only one ADC. > At the price point and with the 7610 on the market for $2900 all day > long it's a serious flaw for me. > > The K4 also has no pre-selector that I can tell and that is useful too > me at times, especially on the low bands. > > IMO the competition for the K4 is the 7610 as they are architecturally > very similar. > > Maybe an Apache ANON 7000 DLE would be in there as well but the Icom > beats that too IMO. (Since it has buttons, and a tuner, and pin-diode > QSK etc) > > That said, I have since bought a K3 to go with the 7610 and will likely > get a K4 and an ANON in the future so I am as hopeless as the rest. > > 73's all. > > -- > Dave Erickson > AB0R > 73 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to vk...@optusnet.com.au __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/8/2021 12:25 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: Not so, Doug. My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's $5,722 in today's dollars. A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal compared to a K3. The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word has relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. 73, Kent K9ZTV On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. . All, I followed along this thread and I think it's not useful to compare the K4 to the K3. The K3 to the K2 makes sense, even a KX3 to a K3 as they are more similar. I think the only radio on the market right now that can be compared to the K4 is the 7610 from ICOM. And frankly, it's not so good for the K4. A little over a year ago, I was in the market for a high end transceiver and basically decided between waiting for a K4 or buy a 7610. I bought the Icom. While I am sure the K4 is a better radio in some ways, the question is: is it twice as good? (Add tuner, second ADC, etc.) Looking at the specs, I am shocked the K4 is shipping with only one ADC. At the price point and with the 7610 on the market for $2900 all day long it's a serious flaw for me. The K4 also has no pre-selector that I can tell and that is useful too me at times, especially on the low bands. IMO the competition for the K4 is the 7610 as they are architecturally very similar. Maybe an Apache ANON 7000 DLE would be in there as well but the Icom beats that too IMO. (Since it has buttons, and a tuner, and pin-diode QSK etc) That said, I have since bought a K3 to go with the 7610 and will likely get a K4 and an ANON in the future so I am as hopeless as the rest. 73's all. -- Dave Erickson AB0R 73 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/8/2021 12:49 PM, George Thornton wrote: I think it is correct to say the basic k4 does not exceed the K3 raw performance (based on the Sherwood engineering standard) Paraphrasing the late Dick Heyser, trying to define a product on the basis of a single parameter is like trying to write Shakespeare with one word in your vocabulary. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I have kind of given up, too. I did a no deposit order just about this time 2 years ago. I recently bought an IC-7610. I guess I'll see what I will do when they call me to tell me my order is ready. John N1JM Wes Stewart-2 wrote > Except the OP gave up on waiting. > > I did too. I haven't cancelled my no-deposit K4 order, but I turn 80 > later this > year and I wanted a new radio before then. So I bought a TS-890S. It too > is a > single-receiver box. But, I'm two away from top of the Honor Roll and > have > 9-band DXCC all from withing a 10 mile circle and I've never owned a > transceiver > with two receivers. A contester might want one but as a DXer I've never > seen > the need. > > I've only had the Kenwood for about 7 months, but it's already been more > reliable than either my K3 or K3S. Prior to the Elecrafts I had a > TS-870SAT that > was flawless for over 12 years. The '890 isn't perfect, the K3 and K3S are > better on RTTY, I don't like not having mic and headphone jacks on the > rear > panel, among other nits. But the feel of the tuning knob, the ergonomics, > the > better frequency stability, the audio and the far better TX IMD are > pluses. It > has a built in tuner, albeit with a lesser range. Although I don't use or > have > an interest in remote operation, the Kenwood has built-in capability. > > Although the prices have actually gone up since i bought mine, they are > still > less than a base K4. > > Wes N7WS > > > On 6/8/2021 12:09 PM, George Thornton wrote: >> I don't know the FTDX10 but it looks like it has a single receiver and >> can't be updated. >> >> I note these Yaesu rigs seem to have crystal filters and use a >> combination of superhet and direct sampling architecture whereas the K4D >> is direct sampling. I would hold off on reaching conclusions on >> relative performance until the K4HD comes out and is tested. Only then >> would you get comparable radios. >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto: > Elecraft@.qth > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to > lists+1215531472858-365791@.nabble -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Except the OP gave up on waiting. I did too. I haven't cancelled my no-deposit K4 order, but I turn 80 later this year and I wanted a new radio before then. So I bought a TS-890S. It too is a single-receiver box. But, I'm two away from top of the Honor Roll and have 9-band DXCC all from withing a 10 mile circle and I've never owned a transceiver with two receivers. A contester might want one but as a DXer I've never seen the need. I've only had the Kenwood for about 7 months, but it's already been more reliable than either my K3 or K3S. Prior to the Elecrafts I had a TS-870SAT that was flawless for over 12 years. The '890 isn't perfect, the K3 and K3S are better on RTTY, I don't like not having mic and headphone jacks on the rear panel, among other nits. But the feel of the tuning knob, the ergonomics, the better frequency stability, the audio and the far better TX IMD are pluses. It has a built in tuner, albeit with a lesser range. Although I don't use or have an interest in remote operation, the Kenwood has built-in capability. Although the prices have actually gone up since i bought mine, they are still less than a base K4. Wes N7WS On 6/8/2021 12:09 PM, George Thornton wrote: I don't know the FTDX10 but it looks like it has a single receiver and can't be updated. I note these Yaesu rigs seem to have crystal filters and use a combination of superhet and direct sampling architecture whereas the K4D is direct sampling. I would hold off on reaching conclusions on relative performance until the K4HD comes out and is tested. Only then would you get comparable radios. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Performance simply is not the issue here. Elecraft has made a marketing decision to market one radio and it is priced in the middle of the Ham-consumer pack with other radios with similar performance. They have opted to skip the entry-level market (like Icom with the 7300 that you can get for basically $1000, and a range of radios at different price points). Many people can't pony up the $4,000+ for the new (now) entry level Elecraft (no matter what the performance) and will go elsewhere for their radios. This is a different model than the entry level K3 that initially started barely over $1,000. That's what's up here... As Rob says in all of his talks... "Any of the radios in the top 10+ are about the same in performance... you serve yourself best buying one with the options that suit you". Unless, of course, you are a performance number chaser... Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ email: b...@wjschmidt.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
My FTdx010d has no problems. Carl Yaffey K8NU 614 268 6353, Columbus OH http://www.carl-yaffey.com http://www.bluesswing.com http://www.timbrewolvesband.com http://www.folkramblers.carl-yaffey.com Http:www.clintonvillegrass.com > On Jun 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Wes wrote: > > Except all of that has been fixed in later offerings. > > > > On 6/8/2021 10:47 AM, Jim Brown wrote: >> On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: >>> FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. >> >> Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and >> have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> __ >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to cyaf...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Except all of that has been fixed in later offerings. On 6/8/2021 10:47 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. 73, Jim K9YC __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I think it is correct to say the basic k4 does not exceed the K3 raw performance (based on the Sherwood engineering standard) but I think the results are pretty close for practical purposes. I would not say the K4 is materially worse. I think it would be up to individual K3 owners to decide whether to sell and pay the difference for an upgrade. I looked at pricing for the Yaesu stuff and the comparable dual receiver model comes out at $4700. Their 200 watt version is advertised at $5200. We don't really know how much the superhet option will cost but what if it was a grand more, that would put the top of the line K4HD at $5000. At that level I would look more at a full feature comparison before I reached a conclusion about which is a better deal. I don't have full information on pricing and options so I don't know if my numbers are off. We are dealing with a US company versus foreign made and that may also be a factor. I also suspect Elecraft could in the future come out with a scaled down model that has only one receiver and that could become a lower cost option. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 12:08 PM To: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up Except that the K4 (not K4HD) does not equal the K3 for raw performance. The K4HD with equivalent performance and accessories is going to cost a fortune, with the extra cost going mostly into creature features. And you're forgetting comparison to rigs from other manufacturers. If you create a sliding scale of cost versus performance for various rigs, Elecraft doesn't come out on top on any rig anymore. Dave AB7E On 6/8/2021 10:25 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: > Not so, Doug. > > My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's > $5,722 in today's dollars. > > A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a > steal compared to a K3. > > The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only > when answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no > meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word > has relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. > > 73, > > Kent K9ZTV > > > On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: >> ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most >> expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was >> very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with >> the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. > . > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gt...@seanet.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Except that the K4 (not K4HD) does not equal the K3 for raw performance. The K4HD with equivalent performance and accessories is going to cost a fortune, with the extra cost going mostly into creature features. And you're forgetting comparison to rigs from other manufacturers. If you create a sliding scale of cost versus performance for various rigs, Elecraft doesn't come out on top on any rig anymore. Dave AB7E On 6/8/2021 10:25 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: Not so, Doug. My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's $5,722 in today's dollars. A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal compared to a K3. The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word has relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. 73, Kent K9ZTV On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. . __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I don't know the FTDX10 but it looks like it has a single receiver and can't be updated. I note these Yaesu rigs seem to have crystal filters and use a combination of superhet and direct sampling architecture whereas the K4D is direct sampling. I would hold off on reaching conclusions on relative performance until the K4HD comes out and is tested. Only then would you get comparable radios. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 10:47 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: > FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gt...@seanet.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I run a FTDX101 MP-no SSB splatter ( 20W/65W), no CW clicks (6ms)- May 2021 FW update implemented. Latest issue of QST (June) ARRL Lab: Test Report - Review on FTDX10 does not confirm clicks or SSB splatter. Tnx, Cu, vy 73 de Andy HB9CVQ, DK2VQ, AK4IG https://www.qrz.com/db/HB9CVQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Dienstag, 8. Juni 2021 19:47 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: > FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to hb9...@hispeed.ch __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
This is not like a departure in a plane from O’Hare airport. You do not have to announce your intentions before leaving here. Thank You. > On Jun 8, 2021, at 11:47, Jim Brown wrote: > > On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: >> FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. > > Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and > have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. > > 73, Jim K9YC > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to haljr.mas...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/8/2021 7:30 AM, Rick Tavan wrote: Rob Sherwood's data is excellent. When studying Rob's work, remember that his table only addresses RECEIVE performance. He has only very recently begun to look at transmit quality. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
On 6/8/2021 3:00 AM, Igor Sokolov wrote: FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. Except that Yaesu radios have a long history of generating nasty clicks, and have more recently established the reputation of severe splatter on SSB. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Not so, Doug. My K3, including accessories and filters, was $4,500 in 2007. That's $5,722 in today's dollars. A K4 with all its advanced technology at $4,600 (your quote) is a steal compared to a K3. The word "expensive" can be applied to the K4 (or any product) only when answering the question, "compared to what?" Otherwise it has no meaning. Nothing is expensive or inexpensive on its own. The word has relevance only when comparing the price of two or more products. 73, Kent K9ZTV On 6/7/2021 9:33 PM, Doug Person, KØDXV, wrote: ... With a tuner the [K4] price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market ... When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. . -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I would not exactly call this giving up. Would I like to have a K4? Sure, but I wouldn’t know what to do with it . . . KX2 + KXPA100 + a wire in a tree is more than enough for me. Just my two cents. Keeping Watch - shu Joe Shuman, NZ8P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Hopefully Elecraft will put a priority on pre-distortion which will vault the K4/KPA1500 combo to the top on the transmitter performance list. Only the Anan rigs from Apache Labs employs pre-distortion now. 73, Bill WE5P Comfortably Numb > On Jun 8, 2021, at 10:31, Rick Tavan wrote: > > Rob Sherwood's data is excellent. The problem is hams thinking the order of > listing is based on an > overall figure of merit. It is *not*. Rob had to choose *one column* on > which to sort his list. When he > first published it, he chose third-order dynamic range (narrow spaced), > probably because many > receivers *of that day* had poor performance on that important metric. For > consistency, he has chosen > to retain that sort order even though many (most?) modern receivers have > improved to the point > where that particular parameter is almost irrelevant when choosing among > top radios. George is > correct that most of us can't tell the difference among radios due to minor > differences in > DR - they are ALL excellent and Rob is careful to point that out when he > speaks at > hamfests. In fact, most modern transceivers excel in so many receiver > performance metrics that > Rob and others are now rightly crusading for improvements in transmitter > performance which > has not advanced as much as receiver performance across the industry. K4 > (and K3 before it) > and a few others have excellent transmitter IMD and clean keying that make > them best choices, > especially in crowded or multi-transmitter environments and among hams who > care about not > generating unnecessarily broad signals. That plus ergonomics and operating > features should be > the new basis of comparison but they don't fit on a list of *receiver > performance* metrics. > I'd like to see a new table of select transmitter performance measurements. > Ergonomics > and feature sets don't lend themselves as easily to tabular comparison > except by manufacturers > who can choose which things to mention, so it's important to read the > descriptions, read the > reviews, listen to owners and, if still unsure, sit down with the radios > before making a decision. > > The Sherwood data is good. Just don't interpret it the wrong way. > > 73, > > /Rick N6XI > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:54 PM George Thornton < >> gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote: >> >> I agree that the price for the K4 has to be compared with the fully loaded >> K3 plus P3. In that respect it is not overpriced. >> >> I don't think we should make too much of the Sherwood Engineering test >> data at this point.I would suspect it would be hard for the human ear >> to tell the difference among the top eight or ten models on the list. I >> also think that when the K4 HD unit is out you might see higher results. I >> suspect direct sampling technology is not as capable as superhet when it >> comes to separating out closely spaced signals which is what Sherwood >> Engineering uses to rank radios. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >> On Behalf Of turnbull >> Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:27 PM >> To: Doug Person ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up >> >> GM Doug,A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear. It rivalled the 7850 >> price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio. >> The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than >> the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller.I suspect it may not be so >> much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area >> of ergonomics. The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is >> understandable. Hope the next radio is great. Meanwhile keep enjoying >> ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy >> Original message From: Doug Person >> Date: 08/06/2021 03:34 (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for >> the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason >> for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is >> $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I >> fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I >> would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 >> set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers >> substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do t
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
Rob Sherwood's data is excellent. The problem is hams thinking the order of listing is based on an overall figure of merit. It is *not*. Rob had to choose *one column* on which to sort his list. When he first published it, he chose third-order dynamic range (narrow spaced), probably because many receivers *of that day* had poor performance on that important metric. For consistency, he has chosen to retain that sort order even though many (most?) modern receivers have improved to the point where that particular parameter is almost irrelevant when choosing among top radios. George is correct that most of us can't tell the difference among radios due to minor differences in DR - they are ALL excellent and Rob is careful to point that out when he speaks at hamfests. In fact, most modern transceivers excel in so many receiver performance metrics that Rob and others are now rightly crusading for improvements in transmitter performance which has not advanced as much as receiver performance across the industry. K4 (and K3 before it) and a few others have excellent transmitter IMD and clean keying that make them best choices, especially in crowded or multi-transmitter environments and among hams who care about not generating unnecessarily broad signals. That plus ergonomics and operating features should be the new basis of comparison but they don't fit on a list of *receiver performance* metrics. I'd like to see a new table of select transmitter performance measurements. Ergonomics and feature sets don't lend themselves as easily to tabular comparison except by manufacturers who can choose which things to mention, so it's important to read the descriptions, read the reviews, listen to owners and, if still unsure, sit down with the radios before making a decision. The Sherwood data is good. Just don't interpret it the wrong way. 73, /Rick N6XI On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:54 PM George Thornton < gthorn...@thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote: > I agree that the price for the K4 has to be compared with the fully loaded > K3 plus P3. In that respect it is not overpriced. > > I don't think we should make too much of the Sherwood Engineering test > data at this point.I would suspect it would be hard for the human ear > to tell the difference among the top eight or ten models on the list. I > also think that when the K4 HD unit is out you might see higher results. I > suspect direct sampling technology is not as capable as superhet when it > comes to separating out closely spaced signals which is what Sherwood > Engineering uses to rank radios. > > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > On Behalf Of turnbull > Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:27 PM > To: Doug Person ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up > > GM Doug,A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear. It rivalled the 7850 > price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio. > The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than > the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller.I suspect it may not be so > much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area > of ergonomics. The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is > understandable. Hope the next radio is great. Meanwhile keep enjoying > ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy > Original message From: Doug Person > Date: 08/06/2021 03:34 (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for > the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason > for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is > $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I > fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I > would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 > set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers > substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the > same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, > perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 > came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe > the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At > this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very > complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now > the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and > whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less > and whose performance seems quite impressive wi
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I am afraid K4HD is going to be even more expensive and when compared performance/features/price ratio with FTDX101 that has the same architecture Elecraft K4HD does not look to me like a good investment. I will keep my K3 and KX3 though and will possibly consider FTDX10 which sounds like a good value for money. If only Yaesu did not have those tiny difficult to find and deal with connectors. I have also got used to at least 3 audio output ports on K3 with own AF amplifier each. UI on Elecraft radios is sure much better thought out but the price tag overweight. 73, Igor UA9CDC 08.06.2021 11:53, George Thornton пишет: I agree that the price for the K4 has to be compared with the fully loaded K3 plus P3. In that respect it is not overpriced. I don't think we should make too much of the Sherwood Engineering test data at this point.I would suspect it would be hard for the human ear to tell the difference among the top eight or ten models on the list. I also think that when the K4 HD unit is out you might see higher results. I suspect direct sampling technology is not as capable as superhet when it comes to separating out closely spaced signals which is what Sherwood Engineering uses to rank radios. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of turnbull Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:27 PM To: Doug Person ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up GM Doug, A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear. It rivalled the 7850 price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio. The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller. I suspect it may not be so much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area of ergonomics. The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is understandable. Hope the next radio is great. Meanwhile keep enjoying ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy Original message From: Doug Person Date: 08/06/2021 03:34 (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware.Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.Doug -- K0DXV__Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to turnb...@net1.ie __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gt...@seanet.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: htt
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
I agree that the price for the K4 has to be compared with the fully loaded K3 plus P3. In that respect it is not overpriced. I don't think we should make too much of the Sherwood Engineering test data at this point.I would suspect it would be hard for the human ear to tell the difference among the top eight or ten models on the list. I also think that when the K4 HD unit is out you might see higher results. I suspect direct sampling technology is not as capable as superhet when it comes to separating out closely spaced signals which is what Sherwood Engineering uses to rank radios. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of turnbull Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:27 PM To: Doug Person ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up GM Doug, A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear. It rivalled the 7850 price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio. The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller. I suspect it may not be so much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area of ergonomics. The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is understandable. Hope the next radio is great. Meanwhile keep enjoying ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy Original message From: Doug Person Date: 08/06/2021 03:34 (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware.Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.Doug -- K0DXV__Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to turnb...@net1.ie __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gt...@seanet.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
GM Doug, A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear. It rivalled the 7850 price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio. The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller. I suspect it may not be so much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area of ergonomics. The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is understandable. Hope the next radio is great. Meanwhile keep enjoying ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy Original message From: Doug Person Date: 08/06/2021 03:34 (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware.Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s.Doug -- K0DXV__Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to turnb...@net1.ie __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Giving Up
Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3 set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some, perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3 came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. After literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, the K4 is not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other significant radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump on it at this price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if feelings are hurt or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since I'm no longer waiting patiently for what we once called Vaporware. Good luck to everyone on their current and future K4s. Doug -- K0DXV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
