Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
You're right, it will roll off on the high end, too, but the rolloff rate is usually much less steep especially if series-tuned. An analysis of my tuner shows that it would be only about 20 dB down at 30 MHz (when tuned on 40 meters) when parallel-tuned, and only about 10 dB down when series-tuned. (A really versatile tuner allows you to switch the output capacitors between series and parallel. This allows it to match a very wide range of impedances, and I think you'd have to homebrew a tuner to be able to do this, unless one of the commercially made tuners can switch.) Al W6LX From: Al Gulseth To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Al Lorona Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem Pardon my ignorance here, but I thought a link coupled tuner would be more of a bandpass than a high-pass filter. CLC T-network tuners (MFJ etc.) are the ones usually associated with becoming high-pass networks if misadjusted. 73, Al On Thu October 23 2014 12:55:15 pm Al Lorona wrote: > This doesn't apply in Vic's case here, but his situation reminds me of yet > another benefit of using a link-coupled tuner with balanced line feeding a > horizontal antenna in the center. > > A balanced link-coupled tuner turns out to be a high-pass filter, so while > you're tuning it up on a ham band, it's rejecting stuff in the AM broadcast > band. > > When tuned on 80 meters, I've measured the 1400 kHz rejection of my tuner > at about 40 dB. Forty dB makes a 50 kW signal sound like a 5 W signal. I > might be in bad shape if I didn't have this tuner. > > Another good thing to remember when planning an antenna installation. > > Al W6LX > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wb5...@centurytel.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Yes, the solution to the problem was a highpass filter between the vertical antenna and the K3 ANT1 connector. On 24 Oct 2014 00:34, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/23/2014 1:52 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Given Vic's description, it is likely the noise is being generated in one or more of the PIN diodes in the T/R switching and placing the highpass filter in the insert point will not resolve the noise. I agree. 73, Jim -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
On 10/23/2014 1:52 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Given Vic's description, it is likely the noise is being generated in one or more of the PIN diodes in the T/R switching and placing the highpass filter in the insert point will not resolve the noise. I agree. 73, Jim __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Maybe, and if you're right, my suggestion may not help. But you misunderstood my suggestion. There is an insert point between the T/R switch and the RX input. That's the RX loop I was talking about -- you insert the filter there. The insert point is *after* the PIN diode T/R switches for both the HPA (KPA3) and 10W LPA. Given Vic's description, it is likely the noise is being generated in one or more of the PIN diodes in the T/R switching and placing the highpass filter in the insert point will not resolve the noise. Vic, you can bypass (disable) the KPA3 to see if the noise generation is in the KPA3 T/R switch. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-23 4:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/23/2014 10:36 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: It isn't necessary to filter the loop. What is happening is that BC RF is coming into the ANT1 connector of the K3 from the vertical, where it is mixing up with every other signal around, probably in the t/r switch section. Then the IMD products (which are on numerous frequencies) are getting re-radiated by the vertical, and they are picked up by the loop. Maybe, and if you're right, my suggestion may not help. But you misunderstood my suggestion. There is an insert point between the T/R switch and the RX input. That's the RX loop I was talking about -- you insert the filter there. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
On 10/23/2014 10:36 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: It isn't necessary to filter the loop. What is happening is that BC RF is coming into the ANT1 connector of the K3 from the vertical, where it is mixing up with every other signal around, probably in the t/r switch section. Then the IMD products (which are on numerous frequencies) are getting re-radiated by the vertical, and they are picked up by the loop. Maybe, and if you're right, my suggestion may not help. But you misunderstood my suggestion. There is an insert point between the T/R switch and the RX input. That's the RX loop I was talking about -- you insert the filter there. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Pardon my ignorance here, but I thought a link coupled tuner would be more of a bandpass than a high-pass filter. CLC T-network tuners (MFJ etc.) are the ones usually associated with becoming high-pass networks if misadjusted. 73, Al On Thu October 23 2014 12:55:15 pm Al Lorona wrote: > This doesn't apply in Vic's case here, but his situation reminds me of yet > another benefit of using a link-coupled tuner with balanced line feeding a > horizontal antenna in the center. > > A balanced link-coupled tuner turns out to be a high-pass filter, so while > you're tuning it up on a ham band, it's rejecting stuff in the AM broadcast > band. > > When tuned on 80 meters, I've measured the 1400 kHz rejection of my tuner > at about 40 dB. Forty dB makes a 50 kW signal sound like a 5 W signal. I > might be in bad shape if I didn't have this tuner. > > Another good thing to remember when planning an antenna installation. > > Al W6LX > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wb5...@centurytel.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
This doesn't apply in Vic's case here, but his situation reminds me of yet another benefit of using a link-coupled tuner with balanced line feeding a horizontal antenna in the center. A balanced link-coupled tuner turns out to be a high-pass filter, so while you're tuning it up on a ham band, it's rejecting stuff in the AM broadcast band. When tuned on 80 meters, I've measured the 1400 kHz rejection of my tuner at about 40 dB. Forty dB makes a 50 kW signal sound like a 5 W signal. I might be in bad shape if I didn't have this tuner. Another good thing to remember when planning an antenna installation. Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
It isn't necessary to filter the loop. What is happening is that BC RF is coming into the ANT1 connector of the K3 from the vertical, where it is mixing up with every other signal around, probably in the t/r switch section. Then the IMD products (which are on numerous frequencies) are getting re-radiated by the vertical, and they are picked up by the loop. You can see this by hooking the loop to RX IN and listening. The noise is only there when you plug the vertical into ANT1. I made a 4-pole Butterworth filter that cuts off at 2.5 MHz using the filter design program that came with the ARRL handbook, husky enough to transmit through, and put it on the ANT1 connector. That did it -- no more noise on either antenna. If Wayne would like me to test the Elecraft filter I will be happy to do so. It will be interesting to compare to my homemade one. On 23 Oct 2014 20:09, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/23/2014 3:58 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Hi Vic, A few suggestions. First, try the BC Band filter on the K3 RX loop. If that works, work out a switching arrangement so that you can apply it to either antenna. Second, build or buy a BCB filter that can handle the K3 output. Based on the frequency of the BCB transmitter, one of the lower cost filters should work. I've measured the vintage ICE BCB filter, and it's good for at least 40 dB on 1080. Another thought is that this might be common mode on the coax, in which case a serious ferrite choke tuned to 1080 might help. I'd start with at least 20 turns of RG58 on a #31 2.4-in toroid, and I'd put it by the rig. 73, Jim K9YC -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Oh, absolutely. I noticed that I can see the towers of the 50 kW station from my roof! On 23 Oct 2014 18:19, Al Gulseth wrote: There's an old adage about "if life hands you lemons, make lemonade." With that kind of field strength (a rough estimate from a chart I found indicates about 0.2v/m or so at your QTH) I'd think you could hook a wire to a tuned circuit on the BC station's frequency and then rectify the RF from it to charge a small battery and let them foot the bill for some of your energy needs. You might even be able to run a K1 etc. on it. (My comment is based on remembering plans for a simple "free power" radio in a mag some years ago.) 73, Al - Original Message - From: "Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO" To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on 24 hours a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters. -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
On 10/23/2014 3:58 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Hi Vic, A few suggestions. First, try the BC Band filter on the K3 RX loop. If that works, work out a switching arrangement so that you can apply it to either antenna. Second, build or buy a BCB filter that can handle the K3 output. Based on the frequency of the BCB transmitter, one of the lower cost filters should work. I've measured the vintage ICE BCB filter, and it's good for at least 40 dB on 1080. Another thought is that this might be common mode on the coax, in which case a serious ferrite choke tuned to 1080 might help. I'd start with at least 20 turns of RG58 on a #31 2.4-in toroid, and I'd put it by the rig. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
There's an old adage about "if life hands you lemons, make lemonade." With that kind of field strength (a rough estimate from a chart I found indicates about 0.2v/m or so at your QTH) I'd think you could hook a wire to a tuned circuit on the BC station's frequency and then rectify the RF from it to charge a small battery and let them foot the bill for some of your energy needs. You might even be able to run a K1 etc. on it. (My comment is based on remembering plans for a simple "free power" radio in a mag some years ago.) 73, Al > > - Original Message - From: "Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO" > > > > To: "Elecraft Reflector" > > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:58 AM > > Subject: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem > > > >> I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on > >> 24 hours a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Hi Vic, We designed a high-power, high-pass filter that should solve this problem. You can transmit through it. Your situation would be a good test of the filter, which we were considering offering as a product. Can we send you one of the prototypes? 73, Wayne N6KR On Oct 23, 2014, at 3:58 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: > I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on 24 hours > a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters….. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Oh, I didn't think of a trap. Simpler than a filter. But I have already designed a 4-pole HP filter that will knock out all of the BC band, which in this location is probably a good idea. There are some very powerful AM BC stations in the Middle East. If my filter doesn't work I'll fall back to a trap. On 23 Oct 2014 15:10, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote: I'd go for a series tuned trap to ground. That would seem to the least disruptive, if that's the right word, to your system. I remember working at Vectrol in Rockville MD fairly close to an AM transmit antenna site. We designed & built big three phase SCR controllers and of necessity, had to isolate any oscilloscope's chassis ground.You could always see the low level AM signal on the scope. A similar trap worked, but it would have required dozens of them to cover all the scopes etc.. Luckily, when you're looking a 60Hz waveforms, we just ignored the BCI. 73, Charlie k3ICH - Original Message - From: "Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO" To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on 24 hours a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters. I have two antennas: an R8 vertical and a Pixel Loop receiving loop. With either antenna, I hear a wideband noise on my K3 that is synchronized with the program material of the BC station on the 14, 10 and 7 MHz bands. I first determined that it was not affected at all by the attenuator in the K3. So I assume that it is not caused by front-end overload in the K3. I noticed that if I listen on the Pixel Loop via the K3's RX ANT input the noise completely goes away when I unplug the R8 from the K3's ANT 1 connector! I also noticed that the noise is reduced when I bypass my amplifier or my SWR/wattmeter, which are connected between the ANT 1 connector and the R8. Reduced, but not eliminated. I conclude that what is happening is that the BC RF is being picked up by the R8, and the diodes in the wattmeter and the amplifier and the K3 finals are creating IMD products which I am hearing. The K3 seems to be the major contributor. I am thinking that maybe the IMD products are being re-radiated by the R8 and picked up by the Pixel Loop. I tried one more experiment: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Has anyone had a similar problem? I am thinking that the solution is a highpass filter or trap at this spot. I don't operate on 160, so it shouldn't be too hard to make. -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
I'd go for a series tuned trap to ground. That would seem to the least disruptive, if that's the right word, to your system. I remember working at Vectrol in Rockville MD fairly close to an AM transmit antenna site. We designed & built big three phase SCR controllers and of necessity, had to isolate any oscilloscope's chassis ground.You could always see the low level AM signal on the scope. A similar trap worked, but it would have required dozens of them to cover all the scopes etc.. Luckily, when you're looking a 60Hz waveforms, we just ignored the BCI. 73, Charlie k3ICH - Original Message - From: "Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO" To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 6:58 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on 24 hours a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters. I have two antennas: an R8 vertical and a Pixel Loop receiving loop. With either antenna, I hear a wideband noise on my K3 that is synchronized with the program material of the BC station on the 14, 10 and 7 MHz bands. I first determined that it was not affected at all by the attenuator in the K3. So I assume that it is not caused by front-end overload in the K3. I noticed that if I listen on the Pixel Loop via the K3's RX ANT input the noise completely goes away when I unplug the R8 from the K3's ANT 1 connector! I also noticed that the noise is reduced when I bypass my amplifier or my SWR/wattmeter, which are connected between the ANT 1 connector and the R8. Reduced, but not eliminated. I conclude that what is happening is that the BC RF is being picked up by the R8, and the diodes in the wattmeter and the amplifier and the K3 finals are creating IMD products which I am hearing. The K3 seems to be the major contributor. I am thinking that maybe the IMD products are being re-radiated by the R8 and picked up by the Pixel Loop. I tried one more experiment: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Has anyone had a similar problem? I am thinking that the solution is a highpass filter or trap at this spot. I don't operate on 160, so it shouldn't be too hard to make. -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pin...@erols.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
Vic, Cannot really tell what's happening, but I have a suggestion for your BC bandfilter. Connect the filter to the RX ANT in and out connectors, and switch on the RX ANT. Now you can transmit the normal way and use the filter for receive only. 73 Arie PA3A Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO schreef op 23-10-2014 12:58: I tried one more experiment: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Has anyone had a similar problem? I am thinking that the solution is a highpass filter or trap at this spot. I don't operate on 160, so it shouldn't be too hard to make. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Interesting K3 QRM problem
I live about 3.3 miles from a 50 kW BC station on 1080 kHz. It is on 24 hours a day, transmitting in Arabic, not that that matters. I have two antennas: an R8 vertical and a Pixel Loop receiving loop. With either antenna, I hear a wideband noise on my K3 that is synchronized with the program material of the BC station on the 14, 10 and 7 MHz bands. I first determined that it was not affected at all by the attenuator in the K3. So I assume that it is not caused by front-end overload in the K3. I noticed that if I listen on the Pixel Loop via the K3's RX ANT input the noise completely goes away when I unplug the R8 from the K3's ANT 1 connector! I also noticed that the noise is reduced when I bypass my amplifier or my SWR/wattmeter, which are connected between the ANT 1 connector and the R8. Reduced, but not eliminated. I conclude that what is happening is that the BC RF is being picked up by the R8, and the diodes in the wattmeter and the amplifier and the K3 finals are creating IMD products which I am hearing. The K3 seems to be the major contributor. I am thinking that maybe the IMD products are being re-radiated by the R8 and picked up by the Pixel Loop. I tried one more experiment: I have a BC band filter which is used with the MFJ antenna analyzer when there are nearby BC signals. Sure enough, putting this in series with the K3 ANT 1 connector kills the noise. Of course I can't transmit through it. Has anyone had a similar problem? I am thinking that the solution is a highpass filter or trap at this spot. I don't operate on 160, so it shouldn't be too hard to make. -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
