Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Larry (K8UT)]

Dennis,

The K3's BCD outputs are defined by band, not frequency. You need something 
that tracks QRG, but the following may be serious overkill for your needs...

If you use the general purpose logger DXLabs, or the contest logger N1MM, 
consider a freeware Band Decoder called FreqEZ. The program receives frequency 
info from those loggers and allows you to to define 255 band segments that 
control any combination of 16 remote relay lines. The software is free, but the 
hardware components are not. The FreqEZ website describes a DIY solution or an 
Assembled and Tested solution. (DISCLAIMER: I wrote the free software, but I 
also sell the Assembled and Tested hardware)

www.freqez.info

If you only need a few outputs, you could probably cobble together something 
that uses the free software but is simpler and cheaper. Contact me if you're 
interested.

-larry (K8UT)

-- Original Message --
From: "Dennis Ashworth" 
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 2020-10-18 2:28:42 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 band data query


I operate a vertical antenna for 80 & 160M where the bandwidth is such that I 
need to switch in reactance between the phone and CW portions of each band. I 
currently do this manually, but am installing vacuum relays for switching remotely. 
Is there a way the K3, through the data port or whatever, can send a signal when 
migrating between traditional (or operator defined) phone and CW portions of the 
band?

Antenna matched points on 160 are at 1825 and 1855; 80M are 3520 and 3800.

I had considered sensing the K3 mode, but that’s not an acceptable solution. 
The 160M CW contests can often extend into the traditional phone area and 
FT8/WSPR often use USB mode in the CW portion.

Thoughts?

Dennis, K7FL
Las Vegas, NV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Bill Frantz]

Wait a minute. The Arduino is usually programmed in C, not 
Assembly. :-)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/18/20 at 4:21 PM, k...@outlook.com (Ken K6MR) wrote:

This is easy to do with an Arduino if you are capable with 
those kind of things.  The serial port on the Arduino can read 
the data from the K3, and set/clear a relay at any frequency 
you want.  Some assembly required.  :^)


---
Bill Frantz| There's nothing so clear| Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | as a design you haven't | 150 Rivermead 
Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | written down. - Dean Tribble| Peterborough, 
NH 03458


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[Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Christian Friess]

Hi Dennis,

I can recommend the following site. I am using a band decoder and I have 
built an antenna coupler for my double zepp.


https://remoteqth.com/

73 Chris, DL2MDU

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

>  Some assembly required.  :^)

microHAM Station Master (band decoder) has programmable "band edges"
and can generate separate controls for any arbitrary frequency
segment: <http://microham-usa.com/store/product-info.php?pid12.html>.

No assembly required .

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2020-10-18 4:21 PM, Ken K6MR wrote:

This is easy to do with an Arduino if you are capable with those kind of 
things.  The serial port on the Arduino can read the data from the K3, and 
set/clear a relay at any frequency you want.  Some assembly required.  :^)

Ken K6MR

From: Dennis Ashworth<mailto:dennisashwort...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:30
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

I operate a vertical antenna for 80 & 160M where the bandwidth is such that I 
need to switch in reactance between the phone and CW portions of each band. I 
currently do this manually, but am installing vacuum relays for switching remotely. 
Is there a way the K3, through the data port or whatever, can send a signal when 
migrating between traditional (or operator defined) phone and CW portions of the 
band?

Antenna matched points on 160 are at 1825 and 1855; 80M are 3520 and 3800.

I had considered sensing the K3 mode, but that’s not an acceptable solution. 
The 160M CW contests can often extend into the traditional phone area and 
FT8/WSPR often use USB mode in the CW portion.

Thoughts?

Dennis, K7FL
Las Vegas, NV



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Ken K6MR]

This is easy to do with an Arduino if you are capable with those kind of 
things.  The serial port on the Arduino can read the data from the K3, and 
set/clear a relay at any frequency you want.  Some assembly required.  :^)

Ken K6MR

From: Dennis Ashworth<mailto:dennisashwort...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:30
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

I operate a vertical antenna for 80 & 160M where the bandwidth is such that I 
need to switch in reactance between the phone and CW portions of each band. I 
currently do this manually, but am installing vacuum relays for switching 
remotely. Is there a way the K3, through the data port or whatever, can send a 
signal when migrating between traditional (or operator defined) phone and CW 
portions of the band?

Antenna matched points on 160 are at 1825 and 1855; 80M are 3520 and 3800.

I had considered sensing the K3 mode, but that’s not an acceptable solution. 
The 160M CW contests can often extend into the traditional phone area and 
FT8/WSPR often use USB mode in the CW portion.

Thoughts?

Dennis, K7FL
Las Vegas, NV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Don Wilhelm]

Dennis,

Frequency data is available from the RS-232 data, but needs decoding 
which implies that a smart device is needed (computer).  See the K3 
Programmer's Reference Manual for the commands and responses.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/18/2020 2:28 PM, Dennis Ashworth wrote:

I operate a vertical antenna for 80 & 160M where the bandwidth is such that I 
need to switch in reactance between the phone and CW portions of each band. I 
currently do this manually, but am installing vacuum relays for switching remotely. 
Is there a way the K3, through the data port or whatever, can send a signal when 
migrating between traditional (or operator defined) phone and CW portions of the 
band?

Antenna matched points on 160 are at 1825 and 1855; 80M are 3520 and 3800.

I had considered sensing the K3 mode, but that’s not an acceptable solution. 
The 160M CW contests can often extend into the traditional phone area and 
FT8/WSPR often use USB mode in the CW portion.


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[Elecraft] K3 band data query

[Dennis Ashworth]

I operate a vertical antenna for 80 & 160M where the bandwidth is such that I 
need to switch in reactance between the phone and CW portions of each band. I 
currently do this manually, but am installing vacuum relays for switching 
remotely. Is there a way the K3, through the data port or whatever, can send a 
signal when migrating between traditional (or operator defined) phone and CW 
portions of the band?

Antenna matched points on 160 are at 1825 and 1855; 80M are 3520 and 3800.

I had considered sensing the K3 mode, but that’s not an acceptable solution. 
The 160M CW contests can often extend into the traditional phone area and 
FT8/WSPR often use USB mode in the CW portion.

Thoughts?

Dennis, K7FL 
Las Vegas, NV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Pedro, EA4KD]

Very grateful Clay

Pedro, EA4KD


-Mensaje original-
De: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] 
En nombre de Clay Autery
Enviado el: domingo, 12 de enero de 2020 9:57
Para: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

Here you go:

https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/Mod%20Notes%20Alerts/K3ALCMod_Rev_B.pdf 
<  K3 Negative ALC and Ext Band Data Pull-up Mods, Rev B: REMIOUPGD
^^
The above doc has the instructions for EXT ALC mod and Pullup resistor mod.

https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/KIO3BUPGD-FAQ%20rev%20A.pdf 
<  Replaces REMIOUPGD  with KIO3BUPKT FAQ
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/E740280%20KIO3B%20Installation%20Rev%20A3.pdf
 
<---KIO3BUPKT INSTALL

Hope this stuff is what you are looking for

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 01/12/20 02:01, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:
> Many thanks Don;
>
> Only need the instructions to add the resistors, I'll keep looking because I 
> haven't found yet.
>
> Pedro, EA4KD
>
> -Mensaje original-
> De: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com]
> Enviado el: domingo, 12 de enero de 2020 1:24
> Para: Pedro, EA4KD; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data
>
> Pedro and all,
>
> The first K3 had band data outputs that were driven by open drain FETs.
> That means that the receiving unit had to provide the pullup voltage to
> operate properly.
>
> Since almost no one in the amateur community understood the benefits of
> using open drain or open collector devices to drive the attached device
> (which would provide the pullup voltage), that was changed so the K3
> provided the pullup voltages early in the life of the K3.
>
> If your K3 does not provide voltage on the band data lines, then you can
> add the resistors to +5 volts if you install the REMIOUPGD resistors to
> the band data lines.  This upgrade kit is no longer available from
> Elecraft, but the instructions can be found in the archives.
> If you are also wanting to upgrade your K3 with the USB interface, you
> can install the KIO3BUKT3 which replaces the REMIOPGT  kit and provides
> pullup resistors on the band data lines.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 1/11/2020 6:53 PM, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:
>> I am the owner of an old K3 (Nov 2007 # 188) and now I need to use Band Data
>> outputs. As they did not work I have been looking for the problem and found
>> that a long time ago there was a board that sold Elecraft to solve the
>> problem (REMIOUPGD) for K3 before December 2008, but that is no longer
>> available.
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone has available a board of these or information to be able to make
>> this modification and use the Band Data?.
>>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Clay Autery]

Here you go:

https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/Mod%20Notes%20Alerts/K3ALCMod_Rev_B.pdf 
<  K3 Negative ALC and Ext Band Data Pull-up Mods, Rev B: REMIOUPGD

^^
The above doc has the instructions for EXT ALC mod and Pullup resistor mod.

https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/KIO3BUPGD-FAQ%20rev%20A.pdf 
<  Replaces REMIOUPGD  with KIO3BUPKT FAQ
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/E740280%20KIO3B%20Installation%20Rev%20A3.pdf 
<---KIO3BUPKT INSTALL


Hope this stuff is what you are looking for

73,

__
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(318) 518-1389

On 01/12/20 02:01, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:

Many thanks Don;

Only need the instructions to add the resistors, I'll keep looking because I 
haven't found yet.

Pedro, EA4KD

-Mensaje original-
De: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com]
Enviado el: domingo, 12 de enero de 2020 1:24
Para: Pedro, EA4KD; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

Pedro and all,

The first K3 had band data outputs that were driven by open drain FETs.
That means that the receiving unit had to provide the pullup voltage to
operate properly.

Since almost no one in the amateur community understood the benefits of
using open drain or open collector devices to drive the attached device
(which would provide the pullup voltage), that was changed so the K3
provided the pullup voltages early in the life of the K3.

If your K3 does not provide voltage on the band data lines, then you can
add the resistors to +5 volts if you install the REMIOUPGD resistors to
the band data lines.  This upgrade kit is no longer available from
Elecraft, but the instructions can be found in the archives.
If you are also wanting to upgrade your K3 with the USB interface, you
can install the KIO3BUKT3 which replaces the REMIOPGT  kit and provides
pullup resistors on the band data lines.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/11/2020 6:53 PM, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:

I am the owner of an old K3 (Nov 2007 # 188) and now I need to use Band Data
outputs. As they did not work I have been looking for the problem and found
that a long time ago there was a board that sold Elecraft to solve the
problem (REMIOUPGD) for K3 before December 2008, but that is no longer
available.

   


Someone has available a board of these or information to be able to make
this modification and use the Band Data?.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Pedro, EA4KD]

Many thanks Don;

Only need the instructions to add the resistors, I'll keep looking because I 
haven't found yet.

Pedro, EA4KD

-Mensaje original-
De: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Enviado el: domingo, 12 de enero de 2020 1:24
Para: Pedro, EA4KD; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

Pedro and all,

The first K3 had band data outputs that were driven by open drain FETs. 
That means that the receiving unit had to provide the pullup voltage to 
operate properly.

Since almost no one in the amateur community understood the benefits of 
using open drain or open collector devices to drive the attached device 
(which would provide the pullup voltage), that was changed so the K3 
provided the pullup voltages early in the life of the K3.

If your K3 does not provide voltage on the band data lines, then you can 
add the resistors to +5 volts if you install the REMIOUPGD resistors to 
the band data lines.  This upgrade kit is no longer available from 
Elecraft, but the instructions can be found in the archives.
If you are also wanting to upgrade your K3 with the USB interface, you 
can install the KIO3BUKT3 which replaces the REMIOPGT  kit and provides 
pullup resistors on the band data lines.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/11/2020 6:53 PM, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:
> I am the owner of an old K3 (Nov 2007 # 188) and now I need to use Band Data
> outputs. As they did not work I have been looking for the problem and found
> that a long time ago there was a board that sold Elecraft to solve the
> problem (REMIOUPGD) for K3 before December 2008, but that is no longer
> available.
> 
>   
> 
> Someone has available a board of these or information to be able to make
> this modification and use the Band Data?.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Don Wilhelm]

Pedro and all,

The first K3 had band data outputs that were driven by open drain FETs. 
That means that the receiving unit had to provide the pullup voltage to 
operate properly.


Since almost no one in the amateur community understood the benefits of 
using open drain or open collector devices to drive the attached device 
(which would provide the pullup voltage), that was changed so the K3 
provided the pullup voltages early in the life of the K3.


If your K3 does not provide voltage on the band data lines, then you can 
add the resistors to +5 volts if you install the REMIOUPGD resistors to 
the band data lines.  This upgrade kit is no longer available from 
Elecraft, but the instructions can be found in the archives.
If you are also wanting to upgrade your K3 with the USB interface, you 
can install the KIO3BUKT3 which replaces the REMIOPGT  kit and provides 
pullup resistors on the band data lines.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/11/2020 6:53 PM, Pedro, EA4KD wrote:

I am the owner of an old K3 (Nov 2007 # 188) and now I need to use Band Data
outputs. As they did not work I have been looking for the problem and found
that a long time ago there was a board that sold Elecraft to solve the
problem (REMIOUPGD) for K3 before December 2008, but that is no longer
available.

  


Someone has available a board of these or information to be able to make
this modification and use the Band Data?.


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[Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Pedro, EA4KD]

I am the owner of an old K3 (Nov 2007 # 188) and now I need to use Band Data
outputs. As they did not work I have been looking for the problem and found
that a long time ago there was a board that sold Elecraft to solve the
problem (REMIOUPGD) for K3 before December 2008, but that is no longer
available.

 

Someone has available a board of these or information to be able to make
this modification and use the Band Data?.

 

Thank´s in advance

 

Pedro, EA4KD

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Information Needed

[Clay Autery]

You do NOT need to use the band data lines. Please read the SPE 1.5K-FA 
manual, et al.  CAT via RS232 works fine/better.


There are also other functions you can use.

Watch this video for what you need to know and a lot more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8Gyl0amRY

73,

__
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(318) 518-1389

On 20-Jul-18 02:51, Barry Simpson wrote:

I want to interface my K3 with a newly acquired SPE 1.5KFA amplifier using
the band data available on the K3 Aux In/Out socket.

Elecraft refer to the data as Bands 1,2,3 and 0 whereas SPE (and other
manufacturers) call them Bands A,B,C and D.

Please can someone let me know if A,B,C,D = 1,2,3,0 or 0,1,2,3 or some
other sequence.

Thanks

Barry Simpson  VK2BJ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Information Needed

[Keith Onishi]

K3/K3S Owner’s Manual shows Band Outputs data in page 21. I am referring K3S 
Owner’s manual A1.

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

> 2018/07/20 16:51、Barry Simpson のメール:
> 
> I want to interface my K3 with a newly acquired SPE 1.5KFA amplifier using
> the band data available on the K3 Aux In/Out socket.
> 
> Elecraft refer to the data as Bands 1,2,3 and 0 whereas SPE (and other
> manufacturers) call them Bands A,B,C and D.
> 
> Please can someone let me know if A,B,C,D = 1,2,3,0 or 0,1,2,3 or some
> other sequence.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Barry Simpson  VK2BJ
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[Elecraft] K3 Band Data Information Needed

[Barry Simpson]

I want to interface my K3 with a newly acquired SPE 1.5KFA amplifier using
the band data available on the K3 Aux In/Out socket.

Elecraft refer to the data as Bands 1,2,3 and 0 whereas SPE (and other
manufacturers) call them Bands A,B,C and D.

Please can someone let me know if A,B,C,D = 1,2,3,0 or 0,1,2,3 or some
other sequence.

Thanks

Barry Simpson  VK2BJ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Pierfrancesco Caci]

I've done an experiment. 
I got a 7805 and powered it from a separate power supply. 
The negative of the 7805 is connected to the GND of the arduino.
If I connect the 5V from the 7805 to one of the digital inputs, the
arduino powers up and executes my program, lighting up the leds as
expected. If I add the diodes as suggested by Jack, this doesn't happen
anymore. But I can't read the 5V from those lines anymore, either. 

I'm now trying to figure out how to replicate the BAND line driver
circuit that is mentioned on Cady's book on my breadboard. Not sure if I
can simulate the mosfet by just shorting that line to ground between the
2.2k and the 220 ohm resistors. In any case, in this configuration I
have to use the arduino internal pullups, and if I disconnect the
external 5V power, I still measure around 1.3 V in the place where there
would be the K3's 5V, if I have the arduino still powered up. 
Also, the logic signal of the lines seems to be reversed. 

I'm seriously thinking that the safest way for me to proceed at this
point would be an optoisolator. 

Pf


> "Bill" == Bill Frantz  writes:


Bill> The band input line pins are set up as input on the Arduino. As such,
Bill> they are high impedance, so I don't think there is any way to drive
Bill> them from the Arduino (short of changing the program/sketch). I
Bill> normally leave my switch controller powered on with the K3 powered
Bill> off, and have not experienced any problems.

Bill> If there were other things in the shack driving the lines, there might
Bill> be a over voltage issue for the Arduino, but I think there would also
Bill> be issues with the K3 driver circuitry. (One drives high, one drives
Bill> low and lots of current flows.)

Bill> 73 Bill AE6JV

Bill> On 2/7/16 at 10:52 AM, jackbrin...@me.com (Jack Brindle) wrote:

>> This can work. But it can cause problems as well. You should add
>> isolation in the form of either small diodes (cathode towards K3) or
>> small resistors (maybe 100 ohms).
>> The problem is that if the Arduino is left powered on when the K3 is
>> off, the Arduino can actually leak power into the K3 through these
>> connections and can actually power parts of the K3 (as in parts, but
>> not all, of the cpu). This false power can lead to other problems,
>> which is why we suggest the isolation diodes.
>> 
>> The second thing is to remember that 60 meters is coded as all
>> zeros. The K3 has pullup resistors on the band lines, which will
>> pull the band lines to whatever Vcc happens to be at that time. When
>> the K3 is off, Vcc is zero, which will be the value of the band
>> lines (i.e. not high-impedance). Thus when the K3 is off, you will
>> see a band selection of 60 meters. KPA500 users see this as the
>> KPA500 switches to 60 meters if it is left powered up after the K3
>> is switched off.
>> 
>> Good luck with the project!
>> 
>> - Jack, W6FB
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of the 
details, please ask.
>>> 
>>> Specifically:
>>> - Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works 
fine.
>>> 
>>> - Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M look 
the same.
>>> 
>>> - I don't bother. I don't change bands while transmitting. I'm not sure 
if the K3 even supports it.
>>> 
>>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2/7/16 at 3:38 AM, p...@tippete.net (Pierfrancesco Caci) wrote:
>>> 
 Hello,
 I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
 accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna switch.  I
 have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
 - is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino
 digital input
 pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
 up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween?   -
 does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the TX VFO?
 Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
 split?   - should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and keep it
 set for a few
 milliseconds when I detect a band switch?
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
>>> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
>>> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Jack Brindle]

The opto isn’t needed. Just a low-voltage-drop diode (1N5711 should work) with 
cathode towards the K3, pullup resistor (47K to 100K) to +5V (or whatever the 
Arduino runs on, might be 3.3V), then the Arduino input pin. This will protect 
the Arduino from being falsely powered from the K3.

This is standard design for devices that are separately powered (think hot swap 
systems) in order to keep the unpowered one from being falsely powered by the 
one that is turned on. In other words it will keep the K3 from falsely powering 
the Arduino through the IO pin. The real problem with this is that if the 
device is powered in this fashion it can actually latch up part (or all) of the 
chip, damaging it. Adding a diode and pullup resistor (or even using the 
internal pullup in the Arduino if it has one) is very cheap protection for this 
scenario.

This is something that surprises everyone the first time they see it. It is 
easily handled once you know what is going on.

The pullup resistors were added sometime after the K3 shipped in order to help 
external devices that don’t have their own pullup resistors. It is not 
surprising that they do not appear on early schematics, but they are on current 
schematics. The circuit shows a 2.2K ohm pullup to +5V followed by a 220 ohm 
series resistor. This will deliver about 2.2mA of current to the IO pin, enough 
to power some micro controllers. Thus the need for the protection circuit.

- Jack, W6FB

> On Feb 8, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Pierfrancesco Caci  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've done an experiment. 
> I got a 7805 and powered it from a separate power supply. 
> The negative of the 7805 is connected to the GND of the arduino.
> If I connect the 5V from the 7805 to one of the digital inputs, the
> arduino powers up and executes my program, lighting up the leds as
> expected. If I add the diodes as suggested by Jack, this doesn't happen
> anymore. But I can't read the 5V from those lines anymore, either. 
> 
> I'm now trying to figure out how to replicate the BAND line driver
> circuit that is mentioned on Cady's book on my breadboard. Not sure if I
> can simulate the mosfet by just shorting that line to ground between the
> 2.2k and the 220 ohm resistors. In any case, in this configuration I
> have to use the arduino internal pullups, and if I disconnect the
> external 5V power, I still measure around 1.3 V in the place where there
> would be the K3's 5V, if I have the arduino still powered up. 
> Also, the logic signal of the lines seems to be reversed. 
> 
> I'm seriously thinking that the safest way for me to proceed at this
> point would be an optoisolator. 
> 
> Pf
> 
> 
>> "Bill" == Bill Frantz  writes:
> 
> 
>Bill> The band input line pins are set up as input on the Arduino. As such,
>Bill> they are high impedance, so I don't think there is any way to drive
>Bill> them from the Arduino (short of changing the program/sketch). I
>Bill> normally leave my switch controller powered on with the K3 powered
>Bill> off, and have not experienced any problems.
> 
>Bill> If there were other things in the shack driving the lines, there 
> might
>Bill> be a over voltage issue for the Arduino, but I think there would also
>Bill> be issues with the K3 driver circuitry. (One drives high, one drives
>Bill> low and lots of current flows.)
> 
>Bill> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
>Bill> On 2/7/16 at 10:52 AM, jackbrin...@me.com (Jack Brindle) wrote:
> 
>>> This can work. But it can cause problems as well. You should add
>>> isolation in the form of either small diodes (cathode towards K3) or
>>> small resistors (maybe 100 ohms).
>>> The problem is that if the Arduino is left powered on when the K3 is
>>> off, the Arduino can actually leak power into the K3 through these
>>> connections and can actually power parts of the K3 (as in parts, but
>>> not all, of the cpu). This false power can lead to other problems,
>>> which is why we suggest the isolation diodes.
>>> 
>>> The second thing is to remember that 60 meters is coded as all
>>> zeros. The K3 has pullup resistors on the band lines, which will
>>> pull the band lines to whatever Vcc happens to be at that time. When
>>> the K3 is off, Vcc is zero, which will be the value of the band
>>> lines (i.e. not high-impedance). Thus when the K3 is off, you will
>>> see a band selection of 60 meters. KPA500 users see this as the
>>> KPA500 switches to 60 meters if it is left powered up after the K3
>>> is switched off.
>>> 
>>> Good luck with the project!
>>> 
>>> - Jack, W6FB
>>> 
 On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
 
 I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of the 
 details, please ask.
 
 Specifically:
 - Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works fine.
 
 - Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M look 
 the same.
 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Josh Fiden]

I'm not familiar with Arduino circuit details, however... logic inputs 
typically have a clamp diode to Vcc. So, if you are applying 5V to an 
input without powering the circuit, in other words, Vcc=0, then you are 
forward biasing the protection diode. This is very likely what is 
powering the Arduino via an input port.


That's bad because the internal clamp diodes are not designed to conduct 
much current and you risk damaging the part.


Once you understand and look at the actual input circuit and driving 
output circuit, you'll know if this is something that needs to be fixed. 
For example, pushing a small current through the diodes when Arduino is 
unpowered may be fine. Or a series resistor on the input to limit the 
current.


The problem you see with your test may not be relevant since the K3 
output line can't source current like a 5V supply.


I saw Jack is suggesting a diode, with cathode toward the K3 output 
port. This is allowing the K3 to pull-down the Arduino input, but not 
pull it up. That may explain why you can't read the port with the diodes 
in place. Assuming inputs are directly connected to the Arduino's ATMega 
processor, you need to make sure the internal pull-ups are enabled in 
the processor. You can directly measure the port voltage with a DVM to 
see if they are being pulled up as needed.


Sorry for some ignorant conjecture about circuits I haven't looked at, 
hopefully it's of some use!


73,
Josh W6XU

On 2/8/2016 12:48 PM, Pierfrancesco Caci wrote:

I've done an experiment.
I got a 7805 and powered it from a separate power supply.
The negative of the 7805 is connected to the GND of the arduino.
If I connect the 5V from the 7805 to one of the digital inputs, the
arduino powers up and executes my program, lighting up the leds as
expected. If I add the diodes as suggested by Jack, this doesn't happen
anymore. But I can't read the 5V from those lines anymore, either.

I'm now trying to figure out how to replicate the BAND line driver
circuit that is mentioned on Cady's book on my breadboard. Not sure if I
can simulate the mosfet by just shorting that line to ground between the
2.2k and the 220 ohm resistors. In any case, in this configuration I
have to use the arduino internal pullups, and if I disconnect the
external 5V power, I still measure around 1.3 V in the place where there
would be the K3's 5V, if I have the arduino still powered up.
Also, the logic signal of the lines seems to be reversed.

I'm seriously thinking that the safest way for me to proceed at this
point would be an optoisolator.

Pf



"Bill" == Bill Frantz  writes:


 Bill> The band input line pins are set up as input on the Arduino. As such,
 Bill> they are high impedance, so I don't think there is any way to drive
 Bill> them from the Arduino (short of changing the program/sketch). I
 Bill> normally leave my switch controller powered on with the K3 powered
 Bill> off, and have not experienced any problems.

 Bill> If there were other things in the shack driving the lines, there 
might
 Bill> be a over voltage issue for the Arduino, but I think there would also
 Bill> be issues with the K3 driver circuitry. (One drives high, one drives
 Bill> low and lots of current flows.)

 Bill> 73 Bill AE6JV

 Bill> On 2/7/16 at 10:52 AM, jackbrin...@me.com (Jack Brindle) wrote:

 >> This can work. But it can cause problems as well. You should add
 >> isolation in the form of either small diodes (cathode towards K3) or
 >> small resistors (maybe 100 ohms).
 >> The problem is that if the Arduino is left powered on when the K3 is
 >> off, the Arduino can actually leak power into the K3 through these
 >> connections and can actually power parts of the K3 (as in parts, but
 >> not all, of the cpu). This false power can lead to other problems,
 >> which is why we suggest the isolation diodes.
 >>
 >> The second thing is to remember that 60 meters is coded as all
 >> zeros. The K3 has pullup resistors on the band lines, which will
 >> pull the band lines to whatever Vcc happens to be at that time. When
 >> the K3 is off, Vcc is zero, which will be the value of the band
 >> lines (i.e. not high-impedance). Thus when the K3 is off, you will
 >> see a band selection of 60 meters. KPA500 users see this as the
 >> KPA500 switches to 60 meters if it is left powered up after the K3
 >> is switched off.
 >>
 >> Good luck with the project!
 >>
 >> - Jack, W6FB
 >>
 >>> On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
 >>>
 >>> I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of 
the details, please ask.
 >>>
 >>> Specifically:
 >>> - Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works 
fine.
 >>>
 >>> - Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M 
look the same.
 >>>
   

[Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Pierfrancesco Caci]

Hello,
I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna switch. 
I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:

- is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino digital input
  pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
  up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween? 

- does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the TX VFO?
  Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
  split? 

- should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and keep it set for a few
  milliseconds when I detect a band switch?

Thanks

Pf

-- 
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Bill Frantz]

I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of the 
details, please ask.

Specifically: 

- Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works fine.

- Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M look the 
same.

- I don't bother. I don't change bands while transmitting. I'm not sure if the 
K3 even supports it.

73 Bill AE6JV


On 2/7/16 at 3:38 AM, p...@tippete.net (Pierfrancesco Caci) wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
> accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna switch. 
> I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
> 
> - is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino digital input
>   pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
>   up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween? 
> 
> - does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the TX VFO?
>   Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
>   split? 
> 
> - should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and keep it set for a few
>   milliseconds when I detect a band switch?

---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Pierfrancesco Caci]

Thanks Bill. 
My point about the tx inhibit was that I plan to have a "manual
selection" button, and I was thinking that maybe it would be nice to
have a "fool avoidance" built in. The fool being me, of course. 

Pf


> "Bill" == Bill Frantz  writes:


Bill> I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of 
the details, please ask.
Bill> Specifically: 

Bill> - Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works 
fine.

Bill> - Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M 
look the same.

Bill> - I don't bother. I don't change bands while transmitting. I'm not 
sure if the K3 even supports it.

Bill> 73 Bill AE6JV


Bill> On 2/7/16 at 3:38 AM, p...@tippete.net (Pierfrancesco Caci) wrote:

>> Hello,
>> I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
>> accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna switch. 
>> I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
>> 
>> - is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino digital input
>> pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
>> up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween? 
>> 
>> - does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the TX VFO?
>> Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
>> split? 
>> 
>> - should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and keep it set for a few
>> milliseconds when I detect a band switch?

Bill> 
---
Bill> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
Bill> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood 
Ave
Bill> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 
95032


-- 
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Jack Brindle]

This can work. But it can cause problems as well. You should add isolation in 
the form of either small diodes (cathode towards K3) or small resistors (maybe 
100 ohms).
The problem is that if the Arduino is left powered on when the K3 is off, the 
Arduino can actually leak power into the K3 through these connections and can 
actually power parts of the K3 (as in parts, but not all, of the cpu). This 
false power can lead to other problems, which is why we suggest the isolation 
diodes.

The second thing is to remember that 60 meters is coded as all zeros. The K3 
has pullup resistors on the band lines, which will pull the band lines to 
whatever Vcc happens to be at that time. When the K3 is off, Vcc is zero, which 
will be the value of the band lines (i.e. not high-impedance). Thus when the K3 
is off, you will see a band selection of 60 meters. KPA500 users see this as 
the KPA500 switches to 60 meters if it is left powered up after the K3 is 
switched off.

Good luck with the project!

- Jack, W6FB

> On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of the 
> details, please ask.
> 
> Specifically: 
> 
> - Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works fine.
> 
> - Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M look the 
> same.
> 
> - I don't bother. I don't change bands while transmitting. I'm not sure if 
> the K3 even supports it.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> 
> On 2/7/16 at 3:38 AM, p...@tippete.net (Pierfrancesco Caci) wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
>> accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna switch. 
>> I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
>> 
>> - is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino digital input
>>  pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
>>  up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween? 
>> 
>> - does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the TX VFO?
>>  Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
>>  split? 
>> 
>> - should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and keep it set for a few
>>  milliseconds when I detect a band switch?
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jackbrin...@me.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data lines

[Bill Frantz]

The band input line pins are set up as input on the Arduino. As 
such, they are high impedance, so I don't think there is any way 
to drive them from the Arduino (short of changing the 
program/sketch). I normally leave my switch controller powered 
on with the K3 powered off, and have not experienced any problems.


If there were other things in the shack driving the lines, there 
might be a over voltage issue for the Arduino, but I think there 
would also be issues with the K3 driver circuitry. (One drives 
high, one drives low and lots of current flows.)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/7/16 at 10:52 AM, jackbrin...@me.com (Jack Brindle) wrote:

This can work. But it can cause problems as well. You should 
add isolation in the form of either small diodes (cathode 
towards K3) or small resistors (maybe 100 ohms).
The problem is that if the Arduino is left powered on when the 
K3 is off, the Arduino can actually leak power into the K3 
through these connections and can actually power parts of the 
K3 (as in parts, but not all, of the cpu). This false power can 
lead to other problems, which is why we suggest the isolation diodes.


The second thing is to remember that 60 meters is coded as all 
zeros. The K3 has pullup resistors on the band lines, which 
will pull the band lines to whatever Vcc happens to be at that 
time. When the K3 is off, Vcc is zero, which will be the value 
of the band lines (i.e. not high-impedance). Thus when the K3 
is off, you will see a band selection of 60 meters. KPA500 
users see this as the KPA500 switches to 60 meters if it is 
left powered up after the K3 is switched off.


Good luck with the project!

- Jack, W6FB


On Feb 7, 2016, at 9:47 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:

I have built a similar switch controller. If anyone wants a copy of the 
details, please ask.

Specifically:
- Just connect te band lines directly to the Arduino inputs. It works fine.

- Don't know about cross band split. However K 3 power off and 60M look the 
same.

- I don't bother. I don't change bands while transmitting. I'm not sure if the 
K3 even supports it.

73 Bill AE6JV


On 2/7/16 at 3:38 AM, p...@tippete.net (Pierfrancesco Caci) wrote:


Hello,
I'm trying to make my own interface between the band data lines on the
 accessory connector of the K3 and the remote antenna 
switch.  I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with:
  - is it safe to just poll the band lines with the arduino 
digital input

 pins? I understand that my K3 is new enough to have the internal pull
  up resistor. Should I put an isolation device inbetween?   
- does the band data as provided by the K3 always track the 
TX VFO?

 Should I expect some weird situation if I ever try to do cross-band
  split?   - should I bother with asserting TX Inhibit and 
keep it set for a few

 milliseconds when I detect a band switch?


---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, CA 95032

__
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---
Bill Frantz| If you want total security, go to prison. 
There you're
408-356-8506   | fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. 
The only

www.pwpconsult.com | thing lacking is freedom. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

Joe/Don

There are lots of ways to skin the cat. If you took apart the RCS12 you'd
see why the the mod to the K3 is by far the easiest approach. Four
resistors, easily applied.

The power dissipation increase on the drivers is a few milliwatts (4 *
(5v/600) * 0.1) and inconsequential in the decision.

73

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

A follow up to the K-Line and RCS12 integration. The problem was that the
RCS12 was excessively loading the band data lines. The fix was additional
drive on the pullups on those lines inside the K3. I used 820 ohms in
parallel with each of the internal 2.2K pullups and all is now working well.

Details:
The RCS12 band inputs drive a 2N3904 common emitter buffer using a 1K base
drive resistor. This puts one Vbe drop plus 1K directly on the K3 Band Data
lines. These lines have a 2.2K pullup and a series 220 protection resistor
for a total of 2.4K to +5v. A quick bit of math shows that when this is
loaded with the RCS12 the resultant voltage on the band data lines falls
below 2V. Although the RCS12 is happy, anything else expecting to read the
band data lines will show zeros. The KPA500 will show 5.3Mhz (60m)
indication as a result.

Paralleling the 2.2K resistors with 820ohms brings the combination to
600ohms which in series with the 220ohms results in 820ohms to +5V which
when driving the RCS12 inputs yields 3V remaining on the band data lines.
This provides a sufficient level for a 1 with reasonable noise margin.

The page 4 of the appnote on the Elecraft site
http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/K3ALCMod_Rev_B.pdf shows a convenient way
to implement this mod.

73

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Paralleling the 2.2K resistors with 820ohms brings the combination
to 600ohms which in series with the 220ohms results in 820ohms to +5V
which when driving the RCS12 inputs yields 3V remaining on the band
data lines. This provides a sufficient level for a 1 with
reasonable noise margin.


I would be careful when decreasing the value of the pull-up resistors
in the K3.  The Band Data outputs are open drain - decreasing the
pull-ups increases the current the outputs must sink at logic low on
top of any current sourced by the external devices.  It might be better
to buffer the RCS12 using something like the 74ACT244 (at less than
$0.25) to drive the 2N3904s.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/2/2012 8:53 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

A follow up to the K-Line and RCS12 integration. The problem was that the
RCS12 was excessively loading the band data lines. The fix was additional
drive on the pullups on those lines inside the K3. I used 820 ohms in
parallel with each of the internal 2.2K pullups and all is now working well.

Details:
The RCS12 band inputs drive a 2N3904 common emitter buffer using a 1K base
drive resistor. This puts one Vbe drop plus 1K directly on the K3 Band Data
lines. These lines have a 2.2K pullup and a series 220 protection resistor
for a total of 2.4K to +5v. A quick bit of math shows that when this is
loaded with the RCS12 the resultant voltage on the band data lines falls
below 2V. Although the RCS12 is happy, anything else expecting to read the
band data lines will show zeros. The KPA500 will show 5.3Mhz (60m)
indication as a result.

Paralleling the 2.2K resistors with 820ohms brings the combination to
600ohms which in series with the 220ohms results in 820ohms to +5V which
when driving the RCS12 inputs yields 3V remaining on the band data lines.
This provides a sufficient level for a 1 with reasonable noise margin.

The page 4 of the appnote on the Elecraft site
http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/K3ALCMod_Rev_B.pdf shows a convenient way
to implement this mod.

73

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

Hi Joe

There's certainly more than one way to deal with this. External buffer
chips are an inexpensive solution. I didn't want yet another piece of
clutter in my already box and cable littered shack so I chose to mod the K3.

The K3 driver chips are not an issue at all. Any additional external pullup
would add to their load but would also provide the desired additional
pullup drive and make it possible to increase the value from 820ohms to
perhaps 1K. The KAT500/KPA500 add a fraction of a milliamp in total so they
are not an issue. They are the only devices other than the RCS12 on the
band outputs in my case.

The only other consideration is that the increased internal pullup drive
(lowered resistance) puts more load on the 5v regulator sourcing current to
those pullups. Again not an issue.

73

jim ab3cv

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:

 I would be careful when decreasing the value of the pull-up resistors
 in the K3.  The Band Data outputs are open drain - decreasing the
 pull-ups increases the current the outputs must sink at logic low on
 top of any current sourced by the external devices.  It might be better
 to buffer the RCS12 using something like the 74ACT244 (at less than
 $0.25) to drive the 2N3904s.

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I didn't want yet another piece of clutter in my already box and
cable littered shack so I chose to mod the K3.


In all probability an inverting buffer or possibly a pair of low drive,
dual optoisolators could replace the 2N3904 transistors directly.  I
suspect the transistors are simply buffering and inverting the inputs
to a PIC of some kind and are there to protect against 12V inputs.

Alternatives are to add pull-ups (2K2 Ohm) in the RCS-12 (but that goes
to the same issue of added dissipation on the K3 drivers) or replace
the base resistors with 2K2 (the transistors should have sufficient
gain to work with 1 mA instead of 1.5mA base drive.  Even adding 1K-1K5
in each of the band data lines (connector at the RCS-12) might work as
a no modification/no external box fix.  However, since I don't have
an RCS-12 I have no way of trying it.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/2/2012 11:28 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

Hi Joe

There's certainly more than one way to deal with this. External buffer
chips are an inexpensive solution. I didn't want yet another piece of
clutter in my already box and cable littered shack so I chose to mod the K3.

The K3 driver chips are not an issue at all. Any additional external pullup
would add to their load but would also provide the desired additional
pullup drive and make it possible to increase the value from 820ohms to
perhaps 1K. The KAT500/KPA500 add a fraction of a milliamp in total so they
are not an issue. They are the only devices other than the RCS12 on the
band outputs in my case.

The only other consideration is that the increased internal pullup drive
(lowered resistance) puts more load on the 5v regulator sourcing current to
those pullups. Again not an issue.

73

jim ab3cv

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:


I would be careful when decreasing the value of the pull-up resistors
in the K3.  The Band Data outputs are open drain - decreasing the
pull-ups increases the current the outputs must sink at logic low on
top of any current sourced by the external devices.  It might be better
to buffer the RCS12 using something like the 74ACT244 (at less than
$0.25) to drive the 2N3904s.




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Don Wilhelm]

I would suggest if modification to the RCS-12 is in order, the 2N3904s 
be changed out for switching FETs such as the 2N7000.


The change Jim made will result in only 8 ma of drain current for the 
drivers in their off state.  I believe the band data drivers in the K3 
are similar to the KEYOUT-LP driver which is rated to sink up to 10 ma. 
according to the K3 ACC connector information.


73,
Don W3FPR
On 12/2/2012 12:24 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



I didn't want yet another piece of clutter in my already box and
cable littered shack so I chose to mod the K3.


In all probability an inverting buffer or possibly a pair of low drive,
dual optoisolators could replace the 2N3904 transistors directly. I
suspect the transistors are simply buffering and inverting the inputs
to a PIC of some kind and are there to protect against 12V inputs.

Alternatives are to add pull-ups (2K2 Ohm) in the RCS-12 (but that goes
to the same issue of added dissipation on the K3 drivers) or replace
the base resistors with 2K2 (the transistors should have sufficient
gain to work with 1 mA instead of 1.5mA base drive.  Even adding 1K-1K5
in each of the band data lines (connector at the RCS-12) might work as
a no modification/no external box fix.  However, since I don't have
an RCS-12 I have no way of trying it.



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

Senior moment: I confused the KIO3 with the KXV3. I have long ago
updated the latter to the A version. So my KIO3 and the associated
connector module are almost certainly lacking pullups. I'll open the
K3 tomorrow and confirm and if true try to add the 2.2K pullups found
on the newer model's D-sub module.

jim ab3cv

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Jim Miller j...@jtmiller.com wrote:

 BTW, I have a KIO3A and since it is the interface to the AUXBUS and
 BANDDATA I would have guessed that it has sufficient drive and pullup
 to do the interface without external pullups. Correct
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[Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

I've recently added an MFJ RCS12 controller to my K3/KPA3 setup and
I'm having some problems.

I've built and checked the BANDDATA cable and it only has the four BCD
lines plus ground. I'm using the Elecraft Y-cable and Keyline
interrupter. (The KEYOUT signal is connected to the KPA500 via the
supplied RCA cable directly. This will change of course as the RCS12
becomes operational and again when the KAT500 is added...) The RCS12
reads the BANDDATA 0-3 lines and switches the relay outputs as
expected.

The problem comes when I add the KPA500. The RCS12 continues to read
and follow the band changes from the K3 but the KPA500 switches to 5.3
(60m) and stays there regardless of K3 front panel switches.The KPA500
also operates properly when the cable is connected to the Y connector
but not the RCS12. So the cable is not at fault.

The K3 and RCS12 respond properly to the front panel band selection
switching of the KPA500 but the KPA500 doesn't change from the 60M
indication.

It seems that the KPA500 is reading zeros on the K3 band data outputs
yet capable of sending via AUXBUS band data change requests to the K3
which is then transmitted via the BANDDATA 0-3 lines to the RCS12
yet the KPA500 remains stuck at 60M.

My K3 is serial number 1210 and further reading of the K3 owners manual shows:

BAND0-3 provide band selection signals. Their behavior is controlled
by the CONFIG:KIO3 menu entry (see below). Band data is based on VFO
A. Earlier K3s may require external pullup resistors to 5 V on these
lines, typically 2.2-10K.

BTW, I have a KIO3A and since it is the interface to the AUXBUS and
BANDDATA I would have guessed that it has sufficient drive and pullup
to do the interface without external pullups. Correct?

So it appears the KPA500 is reading band data rather than AUXBUS and
finding a value of zero. This may be the result of inadequate pullups
on the K3. I thought AUXBUS was bidirectional and the KPA500 would
have been using that for its band info input.

I'm soon adding a KAT500. Since the KAT500 outputs AUXBUS to the
KPA500 I'm wondering if it does any buffering? If so I could pass the
K3 to the KAT500 which presumably would read the BANDDATA 0-3
properly then pass it along with sufficient strength to drive the
KPA500 as well as the RCS12 correctly. There aren't any schematics yet
for the KAT500 to determine this.

Thanks

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Jim,

 The problem comes when I add the KPA500. The RCS12 continues to read
 and follow the band changes from the K3 but the KPA500 switches to 5.3
 (60m) and stays there regardless of K3 front panel switches.The KPA500
 also operates properly when the cable is connected to the Y connector
 but not the RCS12. So the cable is not at fault.

It is likely that the RCS-12 is loading the band data lines preventing
the KPA-500 from seeing the data from the K3.  This has been reported
before ... you may want to look in the archives for a solution:
   http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/

I do not remember if the solution is as simple as blocking diodes in
each line or if the RCS-12 requires a high impedance line driver for
isolation.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/23/2012 9:39 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

I've recently added an MFJ RCS12 controller to my K3/KPA3 setup and
I'm having some problems.

I've built and checked the BANDDATA cable and it only has the four BCD
lines plus ground. I'm using the Elecraft Y-cable and Keyline
interrupter. (The KEYOUT signal is connected to the KPA500 via the
supplied RCA cable directly. This will change of course as the RCS12
becomes operational and again when the KAT500 is added...) The RCS12
reads the BANDDATA 0-3 lines and switches the relay outputs as
expected.

The problem comes when I add the KPA500. The RCS12 continues to read
and follow the band changes from the K3 but the KPA500 switches to 5.3
(60m) and stays there regardless of K3 front panel switches.The KPA500
also operates properly when the cable is connected to the Y connector
but not the RCS12. So the cable is not at fault.

The K3 and RCS12 respond properly to the front panel band selection
switching of the KPA500 but the KPA500 doesn't change from the 60M
indication.

It seems that the KPA500 is reading zeros on the K3 band data outputs
yet capable of sending via AUXBUS band data change requests to the K3
which is then transmitted via the BANDDATA 0-3 lines to the RCS12
yet the KPA500 remains stuck at 60M.

My K3 is serial number 1210 and further reading of the K3 owners manual shows:

BAND0-3 provide band selection signals. Their behavior is controlled
by the CONFIG:KIO3 menu entry (see below). Band data is based on VFO
A. Earlier K3s may require external pullup resistors to 5 V on these
lines, typically 2.2-10K.

BTW, I have a KIO3A and since it is the interface to the AUXBUS and
BANDDATA I would have guessed that it has sufficient drive and pullup
to do the interface without external pullups. Correct?

So it appears the KPA500 is reading band data rather than AUXBUS and
finding a value of zero. This may be the result of inadequate pullups
on the K3. I thought AUXBUS was bidirectional and the KPA500 would
have been using that for its band info input.

I'm soon adding a KAT500. Since the KAT500 outputs AUXBUS to the
KPA500 I'm wondering if it does any buffering? If so I could pass the
K3 to the KAT500 which presumably would read the BANDDATA 0-3
properly then pass it along with sufficient strength to drive the
KPA500 as well as the RCS12 correctly. There aren't any schematics yet
for the KAT500 to determine this.

Thanks

jim ab3cv
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Band data problem

[Jim Miller]

I've gotten feedback on and off list that will help me in figuring
this out. I'll debug it over the weekend and post results and my
solution.

Thanks!

jim ab3cv
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[Elecraft] K3 band data 15 pin plug

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

The radio will output band data band 0-3  would this correspond to a-d 
or would it be d-a?

-- 
Mike W0MU

J6/W0MU November 21 - December 1 2011 CQ WW DX CW
W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data 15 pin plug

[Win Kriegl DK9IP/KH7CD]

Mike,

Band 0 = A, Band 1 = B, Band 2 = C, Band 3 = D

73 Win DK9IP



Am 11.10.2011 22:23, schrieb W0MU Mike Fatchett:
 The radio will output band data band 0-3  would this correspond to a-d
 or would it be d-a?

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 band data 15 pin plug

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Thanks!  That is what I suspected!

Mike W0MU

J6/W0MU November 21 - December 1 2011 CQ WW DX CW
W0MU-1 CC Cluster w0mu.net


On 10/11/2011 2:29 PM, Win Kriegl DK9IP/KH7CD wrote:
 Mike,

 Band 0 = A, Band 1 = B, Band 2 = C, Band 3 = D

 73 Win DK9IP



 Am 11.10.2011 22:23, schrieb W0MU Mike Fatchett:
 The radio will output band data band 0-3  would this correspond to a-d
 or would it be d-a?

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[Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output

[Phil Debbie Salas]

How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output?  Are new radios 
including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with 
open drains?

Phil - AD5X 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output

[Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604]

On page: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_app_notes.htm

Included on All K3s shipped on Dec 10, 2008 and later. (Rev B KIO3
Digital board)

73, doug

   From: Phil  Debbie Salas dpsa...@tx.rr.com
   Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:06:17 -0600

   How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output?  Are new radios 
   including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with 
   open drains?

   Phil - AD5X 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

New K3s shipping now have the pull ups.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ



Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:
 How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output?  Are new radios 
 including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with 
 open drains?

 Phil - AD5X 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data Output

[Jerry Flanders]

Do they also have the negative ALC included?

Jerry W4UK

At 19:53 1/16/2009, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
New K3s shipping now have the pull ups.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ



Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:
  How are K3s being shipped regarding the Band Data output?  Are new radios
  including the pull-up resistors, or are they still all being shipped with
  open drains?
 
  Phil - AD5X
 
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[Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Jan Erik Holm]

Is the K3 band data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)
BCD band data. Looks to me that it is, or?

73 Jim SM2EKM

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[Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Phil Debbie Salas]

Is the K3 band data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)
BCD band data. Looks to me that it is, or? 73 Jim SM2EKM

Yes it is, EXCEPT remember that the K3 band data outputs are open drain, 
whereas the Yaesu output is TTL.  So your external band decoding device 
needs to have internal pull-up resistors unless you've performed the TTL mod 
that is discussed in the K3 ALC mod document.


I have an Array Solutions BandMaster decoder.  This unit has internal 
pull-up resistors, and works great with the K3 open drain outputs when I 
strap the BandMaster for Yaesu.


Phil - AD5X 


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The BCD encoding is the same as the FT-1000D/FT-2000. 

Interfacing to a microHAM or TopTen Band Decoder requires 
no internal modification (both products include pull-up 
resistors on their BCD inputs).  The Elecraft KRC-2 and 
W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will 
require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors in the decoder 
or on the KIO3 board as documented in the Negative ALC 
Mod bulletin. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:00 AM
 To: Elecraft Reflector
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data
 
 
 Is the K3 band data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)
 BCD band data. Looks to me that it is, or?
 
 73 Jim SM2EKM
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Jan Erik Holm]

Thanks to AD5X and W4TV. I know exactly now.

73 Jim SM2EKM
--
Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
The BCD encoding is the same as the FT-1000D/FT-2000. 

Interfacing to a microHAM or TopTen Band Decoder requires 
no internal modification (both products include pull-up 
resistors on their BCD inputs).  The Elecraft KRC-2 and 
W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will 
require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors in the decoder 
or on the KIO3 board as documented in the Negative ALC 
Mod bulletin. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm

Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:00 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data


Is the K3 band data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)
BCD band data. Looks to me that it is, or?

73 Jim SM2EKM


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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Greg - AB7R]

The Elecraft KRC-2 and 
W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will 
require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors 

Not true of the KRC2 IF you are using the AuxBus line.  I have the K3 ACCY 
AuxBus connected to the KRC2 and it 
works great.  No changes needed.

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Fri Dec  5  7:37 , Joe Subich, W4TV  sent:


The BCD encoding is the same as the FT-1000D/FT-2000. 

Interfacing to a microHAM or TopTen Band Decoder requires 
no internal modification (both products include pull-up 
resistors on their BCD inputs).  The Elecraft KRC-2 and 
W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will 
require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors in the decoder 
or on the KIO3 board as documented in the Negative ALC 
Mod bulletin. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:00 AM
 To: Elecraft Reflector
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data
 
 
 Is the K3 band data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)
 BCD band data. Looks to me that it is, or?
 
 73 Jim SM2EKM
 
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 Not true of the KRC2 IF you are using the 
 AuxBus line. 

The question was specifically with respect to BCD output - 
not Aux Bus.  Neither the microHAM Band Decoder not Station 
Master require any modification (or care about the BCD 
coding) if the serial (CAT) data is used for band decoding 
but that wasn't the question that Jan asked.

Another respondent mentioned an specific band decoding device 
from one vendor.  My response was to provide the data about 
the other available products that Jan was likely to be using 
as well as get the full information into the archives so 
another person searching for the same information in two or 
three years from now was not left to wonder about compatibility 
with devices other than one specific product. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


 -Original Message-
 From: Greg - AB7R [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 AM
 To: '' Jan Erik Holm ''; elecraft@mailman.qth.net; 'Joe; Subich; W4TV'
 Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data
 
 
 The Elecraft KRC-2 and  W9XT Band Decoders do not have 
 pull-up resistors and will  require the addition of 2.2 - 
 10K resistors   Not true of the KRC2 IF you are using the 
 AuxBus line.  I have the K3 ACCY AuxBus connected to the KRC2 
 and it  works great.  No changes needed.  
 - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA 
 NA-065   On Fri Dec  5  7:37 , Joe Subich, W4TV  sent:   
 The BCD encoding is the same as the FT-1000D/FT-2000.   
 Interfacing to a microHAM or TopTen Band Decoder requires  
 no internal modification (both products include pull-up  
 resistors on their BCD inputs).  The Elecraft KRC-2 and  
 W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will  
 require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors in the decoder  
 or on the KIO3 board as documented in the Negative ALC  Mod 
 bulletin.   73,  ... Joe, W4TV
 -Original Message-  From: 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')elecraft-bounces
 @mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm  Sent: Friday, 
 December 05, 2008 4:00 AM  To: Elecraft Reflector  
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data  Is the K3 band 
 data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)  BCD band data. 
 Looks to me that it is, or?73 Jim SM2EKM
 ___  Elecraft 
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data

[Greg - AB7R]

Yes and that was my intent as wellto provide options.  That's why the IF 
was capitalized.  :)


-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Fri Dec  5  9:42 , Joe Subich, W4TV  sent:


 Not true of the KRC2 IF you are using the 
 AuxBus line. 

The question was specifically with respect to BCD output - 
not Aux Bus.  Neither the microHAM Band Decoder not Station 
Master require any modification (or care about the BCD 
coding) if the serial (CAT) data is used for band decoding 
but that wasn't the question that Jan asked.

Another respondent mentioned an specific band decoding device 
from one vendor.  My response was to provide the data about 
the other available products that Jan was likely to be using 
as well as get the full information into the archives so 
another person searching for the same information in two or 
three years from now was not left to wonder about compatibility 
with devices other than one specific product. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


 -Original Message-
 From: Greg - AB7R [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:30 AM
 To: '' Jan Erik Holm ''; elecraft@mailman.qth.net; 'Joe; Subich; W4TV'
 Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data
 
 
 The Elecraft KRC-2 and  W9XT Band Decoders do not have 
 pull-up resistors and will  require the addition of 2.2 - 
 10K resistors   Not true of the KRC2 IF you are using the 
 AuxBus line.  I have the K3 ACCY AuxBus connected to the KRC2 
 and it  works great.  No changes needed.  
 - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA 
 NA-065   On Fri Dec  5  7:37 , Joe Subich, W4TV  sent:   
 The BCD encoding is the same as the FT-1000D/FT-2000.   
 Interfacing to a microHAM or TopTen Band Decoder requires  
 no internal modification (both products include pull-up  
 resistors on their BCD inputs).  The Elecraft KRC-2 and  
 W9XT Band Decoders do not have pull-up resistors and will  
 require the addition of 2.2 - 10K resistors in the decoder  
 or on the KIO3 board as documented in the Negative ALC  Mod 
 bulletin.   73,  ... Joe, W4TV
 -Original Message-  From: 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]','','','')elecraft-bounces
 @mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jan Erik Holm  Sent: Friday, 
 December 05, 2008 4:00 AM  To: Elecraft Reflector  
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Band Data  Is the K3 band 
 data compatible with Yaesu (ex:FT1000D)  BCD band data. 
 Looks to me that it is, or?73 Jim SM2EKM
 ___  Elecraft 
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 http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: 
 http://www.elecraft.com  
 



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[Elecraft] K3: Band Data (renamed)

[G3SJJ]

Oh dear, you have made me a little worried now Ian.

I use two Topten Band Decoders, with new source driver boards. Each one 
has a cable wired for Yeasu, ie terminated in a Din plug which goes into 
the Band Data out socket on the FT1kMP. One also has a twin screened 
lead which picks up Amp Keying and Inhibit for my Acom 1000 amp. I am 
not too worried about the Inhibit, as per recent discussions, I wired it 
in since it was available and I use short time constant on switching.


I was just going to rewire one cable into the 15 way D connector to pick 
up band data. I need 20mA switching capablity for the Acom so was 
proposing to use  normal phono to phono plus take 12v off the rear K3 
connector. A bit messy compared with just a single Din connector on the 
MP but now it seems I will need some other kind of interface as well.


Chris G3SJJ



Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
3. Reverse logic in the band data output. Again, this 4-bit encoding 
was originated by Yaesu, and has since been adopted and extended by a 
range of third-party providers. The standard band data output is TTL, 
logic 1 = 5V, logic 0 = 0V.


The K3 uses industry-standard band encoding, but the output interface 
is not standard. Use of open-drain pulldowns in the K3 means that 
existing non-Elecraft band data  interfaces will not work without some 
modifications and a user-provided positive supply rail.



Whether or not any of those interface facilities is really needed is 
a side issue. Those interfaces exist in the K3, so the relevant 
discussion is about compatibility with users' existing stations.



At the technical level, these are all fairly trivial problems. My 
holiday project was already going to be a breakout box for the 15-way 
cable from the ACC connector, where the interfaces with several 
different parts of the station can be patched in. The inverters and 
level shifters that will be needed to give the K3 an industry-standard 
interface to the outside world can go in there. It's just a little 
more work than anyone would really have wanted.







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