Re: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Alan Bloom wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 13:24, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. I realize that the complex interconnected functions that have been evolved are invaluable to serious DX chasers and contesters. And to learn them, the scripts and tips sound like a great idea. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) I'm with you. I'm not used to using a radio where all the controls change state whenever I change bands - I find that feature mainly confusing/annoying. Perhaps after I've put in more hours flying my K3 it will become more second-nature. To be fair to Elecraft, that is how 21st-century radios behave. The rigs we grew up with had stay-put controls because there was no other choice. Going back to the same frequency, mode, antennas and PA tuning that we had previously been using on a given band was a complex ritual involving several different controls - some of which could cause damage if incorrectly adjusted. The K3 obviously *could* be programmed to emulate that behavior, so if anyone really wants to go back there, by all means petition Wayne to include it as a CONFIG option. We could call it Century= mid20th. But *please* leave the K3's default setting as 21st! -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
At the Friedrichshafen show I was talking to a few fellow members of the terminally bewildered radio operators club (Last of the Summer Wine candidates). Their input was: 1) Radios should have a simple and *large* interface. 2) Assuming good performance, usability is more important than price (all children have left home, wives are radio-friendly, bank balances are healthy). 3) None bought the K3 despite my recommendations, instead the IC-7700 was purchased due to 1) above. The size of the radio was the deal killer. 4) Despite price all were drooling over the Hilberling PT-8000, I seriously expect those who did not yet buy the IC-7700 to buy the Hilberling. My opinion - radios should be big, mobile phones and tax demands should be small. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -- From: Ian White GM3SEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be fair to Elecraft, that is how 21st-century radios behave. The rigs we grew up with had stay-put controls because there was no other choice. Going back to the same frequency, mode, antennas and PA tuning that we had previously been using on a given band was a complex ritual involving several different controls - some of which could cause damage if incorrectly adjusted. The K3 obviously *could* be programmed to emulate that behavior, so if anyone really wants to go back there, by all means petition Wayne to include it as a CONFIG option. We could call it Century= mid20th. But *please* leave the K3's default setting as 21st! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Ian wrote: To be fair to Elecraft, that is how 21st-century radios behave. The rigs we grew up with had stay-put controls because there was no other choice. Going back to the same frequency, mode, antennas and PA tuning that we had previously been using on a given band was a complex ritual involving several different controls - some of which could cause damage if incorrectly adjusted. The K3 obviously *could* be programmed to emulate that behavior, so if anyone really wants to go back there, by all means petition Wayne to include it as a CONFIG option. We could call it Century= mid20th. But *please* leave the K3's default setting as 21st! - In spite of your thinly-veiled sarcasm, Ian, I agree with you completely. I hope Elecraft succeeds in providing the features most people will want. That will produce the most sales and most success for them. But what's popular doesn't mean it's what everyone should or needs to do. Not everyone wants to play the same game. Not everyone wants to follow the same crowd. There can be a real sophistication and elegance to a simple user interface, particularly for those of us whose primary interest isn't busting DX pileups or racking up the largest contest scores. My observation was that if we have a truly sophisticated radio capable of complex behavior, it'd be nice if that behavior included the ability to provide a simple, elegant and intuitive user interface for non-competitive operating as well. Elecraft has shown great success as a company by not copying everyone else. I hope they continue that tradition of innovation. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
I have gotten used to the rather small K3 front panel or tell myself that I will someday. It was this feature which kept me from ordering one for several months. But after putting my hands on one, I figured I wasn't too old to adapt. My other rig is a TT Omni VII which I find to be the perfect size with adequate space between the controls. Now the hardware NB and second receiver are missing from this rig (I am assuming my KRX3 arrives soon) and the DSP filtering is not as tight, but otherwise it is a joy to operate. 73, Gary W7TEA Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote: At the Friedrichshafen show I was talking to a few fellow members of the terminally bewildered radio operators club (Last of the Summer Wine candidates). Their input was: 1) Radios should have a simple and *large* interface. 2) Assuming good performance, usability is more important than price (all children have left home, wives are radio-friendly, bank balances are healthy). 3) None bought the K3 despite my recommendations, instead the IC-7700 was purchased due to 1) above. The size of the radio was the deal killer. 4) Despite price all were drooling over the Hilberling PT-8000, I seriously expect those who did not yet buy the IC-7700 to buy the Hilberling. My opinion - radios should be big, mobile phones and tax demands should be small. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -- From: Ian White GM3SEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be fair to Elecraft, that is how 21st-century radios behave. The rigs we grew up with had stay-put controls because there was no other choice. Going back to the same frequency, mode, antennas and PA tuning that we had previously been using on a given band was a complex ritual involving several different controls - some of which could cause damage if incorrectly adjusted. The K3 obviously *could* be programmed to emulate that behavior, so if anyone really wants to go back there, by all means petition Wayne to include it as a CONFIG option. We could call it Century= mid20th. But *please* leave the K3's default setting as 21st! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-%22operating-scripts%22-vs.-%22operating-tips%22-tp18172430p18201533.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Ron, I like that! I set CW mode, and CW mode stays, etc. Covering just a few more related comments: I usually can remember what I have set on or off over a short period, but with all the combinations and 'magic' that are possible with the K3 and other radios that make use of memories, I have to remember what I have set into those memories, and because of that, I usually do not use memories. Some asked for a radio that had knobs and buttons, others asked for a radio that can do 'magic' in a contest situation, and we now have a radio that can do both, but the UI is growing more complex. You are correct, the more function coupling there is to a single button tap or press, the more difficult it is to learn to use the radio. IMHO, I would rather press 2 buttons in sequence for a combined function than to have the radio attempt to do it for me. Radios today are getting complex and that complexity shows through in the User Interface - it has to be learned. I liken it to learning the controls of a 747 (but I am just guessing, I have not examined the controls of a 747). The 'decoupling' you suggest might bring it down to the level of the controls on a common automobile which should be more intuitive for the average operator. 73, Don W3FPR Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. I realize that the complex interconnected functions that have been evolved are invaluable to serious DX chasers and contesters. And to learn them, the scripts and tips sound like a great idea. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
I think MODE should be the foundation upon which the various interconnected functions are built. I would like to see a mode-specific band switch scheme. For example, if you are in CW, switching bands will recall the frequency, filter settings, etc. which you last used in CW; further taps on the BAND buttons will take you through all your last used CW settings on the different bands. If you switch to AM it would recall the last used AM freqs (different from the CW settings), filter, RX eq, etc. Same for SSB, etc. This could also be the basis for sensible general coverage band switching as well. Some details would have to be worked out but a few simple rules would make this MODE-based scheme workable and convenient, I believe. What programming resources, memory, etc. it would require, I have no idea... But that's my suggestion. 73, Drew AF2Z On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:23:12 -0400, Don W3FPR wrote: Ron, I like that! I set CW mode, and CW mode stays, etc. Covering just a few more related comments: I usually can remember what I have set on or off over a short period, but with all the combinations and 'magic' that are possible with the K3 and other radios that make use of memories, I have to remember what I have set into those memories, and because of that, I usually do not use memories. Some asked for a radio that had knobs and buttons, others asked for a radio that can do 'magic' in a contest situation, and we now have a radio that can do both, but the UI is growing more complex. You are correct, the more function coupling there is to a single button tap or press, the more difficult it is to learn to use the radio. IMHO, I would rather press 2 buttons in sequence for a combined function than to have the radio attempt to do it for me. Radios today are getting complex and that complexity shows through in the User Interface - it has to be learned. I liken it to learning the controls of a 747 (but I am just guessing, I have not examined the controls of a 747). The 'decoupling' you suggest might bring it down to the level of the controls on a common automobile which should be more intuitive for the average operator. 73, Don W3FPR Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. I realize that the complex interconnected functions that have been evolved are invaluable to serious DX chasers and contesters. And to learn them, the scripts and tips sound like a great idea. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) Ron AC7AC ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Very good point, Julian. I can see how that's useful to you and I can imagine a situation in which it would be convenient for me, saving the act of pushing another button on certain band changes. I guess that's the problem: as long as something can be automated, we can think of ways the automation makes things simpler, perhaps even safer, under some circumstances. But it always comes at a cost. I have a car with a manual transmission with a feature that requires the clutch to be depressed before the starter motor will operate. I didn't even think about it until a situation arose in which I wanted to move the car a few feet by engaging the starter with the car in gear on purpose. That's not possible without rewiring the starter. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) I'd go along with that to a great extent, though since my antenna on ANT 2 is only of use on the bands ANT 1 is no use at all on, and vice versa, it makes perfect sense to me for the ANT selection to be linked to the band. The trouble with second guessing is that the guesses may be right some of the time (or for some people) and wrong for others. The issue doesn't arise if a control performs just one function. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
I'm with you. I'm not used to using a radio where all the controls change state whenever I change bands - I find that feature mainly confusing/annoying. Perhaps after I've put in more hours flying my K3 it will become more second-nature. Al N1AL On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 13:24, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. I realize that the complex interconnected functions that have been evolved are invaluable to serious DX chasers and contesters. And to learn them, the scripts and tips sound like a great idea. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:28 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Just in case there's confusion on this point: - Operating tips are short-form, covering the use of a single feature. - Operating scripts would be much longer, step-by-step tutorial guides covering a class of K3 operation or setup in depth. There's room for both. With Operating Scripts, our many advanced K3 users can show beginning users exactly how they operate the K3 -- as if they were sitting with them in front of the rig. 73, Wayne, N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. I realize that the complex interconnected functions that have been evolved are invaluable to serious DX chasers and contesters. And to learn them, the scripts and tips sound like a great idea. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wayne burdick Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:28 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips Just in case there's confusion on this point: - Operating tips are short-form, covering the use of a single feature. - Operating scripts would be much longer, step-by-step tutorial guides covering a class of K3 operation or setup in depth. There's room for both. With Operating Scripts, our many advanced K3 users can show beginning users exactly how they operate the K3 -- as if they were sitting with them in front of the rig. 73, Wayne, N6KR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 operating scripts vs. operating tips
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Maybe I'm speaking a Ham heresy, but I'd love to see the ability to disconnect all the interconnected functions on the K3. I'd love to see the K3 controls do ONE thing. That is, when I select MODE:CW, I'd like the radio to be in CW mode and not change if I switch VFOs or bands. If I select ANT1, the radio should remain on ANT1 no matter which band I choose, etc. But for myself, I'd rather not have the radio second-guess me using some complex logic that I'm obligated to learn in order to operate it ;-) I'd go along with that to a great extent, though since my antenna on ANT 2 is only of use on the bands ANT 1 is no use at all on, and vice versa, it makes perfect sense to me for the ANT selection to be linked to the band. The trouble with second guessing is that the guesses may be right some of the time (or for some people) and wrong for others. The issue doesn't arise if a control performs just one function. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-%22operating-scripts%22-vs.-%22operating-tips%22-tp18172430p18175013.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
