Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing. This filter helped my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy. You guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you to melt some solder inside. ~Brett On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 14:20 +0100, Dave G4AON wrote: There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on it as well. Most operating systems have drivers for this IC and it just shows up as a sound card. So if a 2902 and a FTDIChip were plopped down and tied to a hub you could have the radio when plugged in show up on most computers (windows, linux and mac at least) as an RS232 port and a sound card. Then just point your digital software at the newly installed sound card and all of the line level audio connections are made for you. ~Brett On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 11:19 -0700, wayne burdick wrote: Dan Copeland wrote: can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
You can do a lot more than 38400 over RS232 as well so even if the K3 goes to USB you're probably not going to see more than 38400 being piped over. But yes audio could be added via another USB endpoint. On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 15:31 -0400, Steve Ellington wrote: Physical properties aside, USB's advantage is speed. We are running the K3's serial port at 38kb while USB can run 400,000kbJust a tad faster and that allows audio and video transfer. True, USB jacks are flimbsey little things, if it were mounted on an option board like the current RS232 is, it could be replaced without a lot of hassle. Sooner or later, ham rigs will either be the only thing around with RS232 or they will change over to USB like the rest of the world. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert in the opposite direction. USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector. An accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily cause damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable). I've broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent strikes. Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard that incorporates audio + data/rig control. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Bring it on! Regards, Mike VP8NO - Original Message - From: Brett Howard br...@livecomputers.com To: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 |I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when | I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing. This filter helped | my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy. You | guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you | to melt some solder inside. | | ~Brett __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Tell us more about this filter! Bob NW8L On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Brett Howardbr...@livecomputers.com wrote: I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing. This filter helped my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy. You guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you to melt some solder inside. ~Brett On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 14:20 +0100, Dave G4AON wrote: There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on it as well. Most operating systems have drivers for this IC and it just shows up as a sound card. PCM2902 is not exactly the best chip for this application. W7AY has documented some issues in some operating systems and certain sample rates. I'd be looking at some of the other USB Audio class devices. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brett Howard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 4:28 PM To: wayne burdick Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on it as well. Most operating systems have drivers for this IC and it just shows up as a sound card. So if a 2902 and a FTDIChip were plopped down and tied to a hub you could have the radio when plugged in show up on most computers (windows, linux and mac at least) as an RS232 port and a sound card. Then just point your digital software at the newly installed sound card and all of the line level audio connections are made for you. ~Brett On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 11:19 -0700, wayne burdick wrote: Dan Copeland wrote: can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost and red tape required for Windows Certification are very significant for a small company. Also, it is an ongoing cost. Most vendors nowadays support at most two generations of Windows. I've just reached the point where I've upgraded to XP because more and more stuff won't run on '98 and more and more hardware doesn't have drivers for it. In the process it looks like I have lost a sound card and a scanner, because they are considered obsolete models by their vendors and do not have XP drivers. (They do have Linux drivers, and Linux support is potentially indefinite, as long as parallel ports and PCI last.) Although the sound card is more recent than the SB Pro, even though that established an interface standard, it looks like that isn't supported. You have to go back to serial ports and Epson 9 pin printers to find standards that have survived. USB devices come into two categories, ones which can be handled by class drivers, e.g. memory sticks, and some USB sound devices, and more custom ones. The customs ones will tend to die in one or two generations of Windows. The class ones will survive longer, but USB itself will probably be superceded, and, unlike RS232, it is too complex for an individual to host it on top of the latest and greatest technology. Whilst Elecraft remain in business, under the current management, they may well be prepared to update drivers, at a price, but if they don't USB radios will rapidly become doorstops. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Plus there will shortly be a USB 3.0 spec. I don't know if the connectors will be the same, or how backward compatible it will be with USB 2.0 (I assume 100%). There's a danger of linking your radio too closely to the world of PC's; the rate of technological change is incredible, and the rate of obsolescence is commensurate with that. That is something which I keep very much in mind with radios like the Flex, and the idea of PC-dominated radios in general - really, you're always potentially one Windows update away from breaking the rig. If the company goes out of business, or does not feel like supporting an X-year old, non-current version of their product, you are done. Over and out. Just my opinion. 73, Steve NN4X On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM, David Woolley (E.L) for...@david-woolley.me.uk wrote: Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost and red tape required for Windows Certification are very significant for a small company. Also, it is an ongoing cost. Most vendors nowadays support at most two generations of Windows. I've just reached the point where I've upgraded to XP because more and more stuff won't run on '98 and more and more hardware doesn't have drivers for it. In the process it looks like I have lost a sound card and a scanner, because they are considered obsolete models by their vendors and do not have XP drivers. (They do have Linux drivers, and Linux support is potentially indefinite, as long as parallel ports and PCI last.) Although the sound card is more recent than the SB Pro, even though that established an interface standard, it looks like that isn't supported. You have to go back to serial ports and Epson 9 pin printers to find standards that have survived. USB devices come into two categories, ones which can be handled by class drivers, e.g. memory sticks, and some USB sound devices, and more custom ones. The customs ones will tend to die in one or two generations of Windows. The class ones will survive longer, but USB itself will probably be superceded, and, unlike RS232, it is too complex for an individual to host it on top of the latest and greatest technology. Whilst Elecraft remain in business, under the current management, they may well be prepared to update drivers, at a price, but if they don't USB radios will rapidly become doorstops. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Guy, K2AV wrote: If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let them use the Ethernet jack. I'd like to see an ethernet interface module option so I can directly remote to it from a computer. Or an 811g wireless module for the same purpose. I can see the uses of that, but why would it have to be an integrated option and why would it have to come from Elecraft? I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on the other. By using Hamlib it could be configured to work with ANY radio, which would greatly increase the potential market size therefore reducing the cost for would-be buyers. No, I'm not interested in developing it. But I'm sure it's possible. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3091468.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on the other. You might want to take a look at http://www.ethernut.de/. I have no connection with them, but it does look interesting: Ethernut is an Open Source Hardware and Software Project for building tiny Embedded Ethernet Devices. vy 73 de toby __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Doug, From a European perspective, and this is a personal opinion, while the 3rd Order dynamic range performance at 2kHz is certainly very important, it is the Spurious Free 3rd Order dynamic range at spacings less than the IF bandwidth that really matters, i.e. both test signals INSIDE the IF passband. Over here, working a weak DX station on say 40m, who is operating No-Split and who is covered by non-stop callers with strong signals, does require good in-passband performance to help the filter between the ears. Tx phase noise and clicks have been secondary issues. It is an unfortunate fact that while receiver A's IMDDR3 performance might be quoted as being better than receiver B's at 2kHz spacing (outside of the passband), receiver B might be the better performer at spacings inside the passband, and more useful, because it has a better IF design than A's. The problem of course is that the reviews seldom include in-passband IMDDR3 performance, thus do not expose poor/ lousy IF systems. I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd Order dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market. 73, Geoff GM4ESD DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM Yeah...at what spacing? From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong) At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your front end. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd Order dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market. You are, I think, referring to http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/ and the work done by CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading. Interestingly SFDR (Spurious Free Dynamic Range) 112 dB and BDR (Blocking Dynamic Range) 125 dB (CW, 500 Hz BW) are claimed for the QS1R, which has almost no analogue filtering http://www.srl-llc.com/files/qs1r_revd_specs.pdf. vy 73 de toby __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Toby dj7...@muenchen-mail.de wrote: You are, I think, referring to http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/ and the work done by CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading. Hi Toby, Yes, followed by a large spurious free IMDDR3 IF system whose noise figure is 2db. 73, Geoff GM4ESD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
anything about dynamic range or something like that.
IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
I also own all three ('7700/'7800/K3) and I've been comparing the three rigs
for the past year. Not one of them really stands out against the other when
comparing the NR function in SSB, nor CW modes. In my experience, the two
radios with the best NR function are the Kenwood TS-480 (CW) and the Ten Tec
Omni Six (SSB).
On the TS-480, Kenwood developed a DSP CW peaking filter in the NR2 position
that actually seems to extract CW out from under the noise. Engaging that
function has often made the difference between copy and no-copy. I cannot
say the same for any other radio. Likewise, the Omni Six NR function
somehow manages to peak the SSB audio passband when engaged and never did I
hear an audio attenuating effect as I do with the '7700 and '7800 -- even
under weak signal conditions. The two Icoms seem particularly vulnerable to
attenuation as the NR function is increased and I find their NR function to
be nearly useless unless signal strength is strong.
Paul, W9AC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3093119.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hi Julius! Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two wiring diagrams for the two cables. When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I had to change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a few other changes. It's not just the connectors. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Wed Jun 17 7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn sent: I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600- tp2588586p3093119.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hi Greg, Thanks! I looked on their site and didn't see the link to the wiring diagrams. Will look closer this time. Figured I'd try it out, although I'm happy with my current interfaces. hope you're doing well! 73, Julius Gregory Fischer wrote: Hi Julius! Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two wiring diagrams for the two cables. When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I had to change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a few other changes. It's not just the connectors. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Wed Jun 17 7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn sent: I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600- tp2588586p3093119.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Thanks! I looked on their site and didn't see the link to the wiring diagrams. Will look closer this time. Figured I'd try it out, although I'm happy with my current interfaces. Here they are: http://www.microham.com/contents/en-us/d145.html vy 73 de toby __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 07:13, Paul Christensenw...@arrl.net wrote:
Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
anything about dynamic range or something like that.
IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
I also own all three ('7700/'7800/K3) and I've been comparing the three rigs
for the past year. Not one of them really stands out against the other when
comparing the NR function in SSB, nor CW modes. In my experience, the two
radios with the best NR function are the Kenwood TS-480 (CW) and the Ten Tec
Omni Six (SSB).
On the TS-480, Kenwood developed a DSP CW peaking filter in the NR2 position
that actually seems to extract CW out from under the noise. Engaging that
function has often made the difference between copy and no-copy. I cannot
say the same for any other radio. Likewise, the Omni Six NR function
somehow manages to peak the SSB audio passband when engaged and never did I
hear an audio attenuating effect as I do with the '7700 and '7800 -- even
under weak signal conditions. The two Icoms seem particularly vulnerable to
attenuation as the NR function is increased and I find their NR function to
be nearly useless unless signal strength is strong.
Paul, I have noticed this same behavior with my K2+DSP, but I haven't
been able to duplicate on my K3 (maybe because the DSP parameters are
not as easily configurable). The ability to pull a signal out of the
noise with the K2+DSP is profound, but I profess I have not used a
TS480 either.
Jeff N6GQ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
The cable model number on the cables page for each interface is a link to the schematic. As far as the USB Interface II and the K3, you can ignore the audio functions as the USB II only provides isolation transformers and the K3's line out is already isolated. With the K3 and USB II you might as well connect the 3.5mm cables directly between the computer and Line In/Line Out. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julius Fazekas n2wn Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:24 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Thanks Joe... After looking it over more, it seems like the only advantage is it will operate from one USB port versus two Serial Ports... Which may be useful with a laptop or new destop w/o serial ports. May not have this long. 73, Julius Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party: Sunday, 6 Sept 2009 http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 To: 'Julius Fazekas n2wn' phriend...@yahoo.com, elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 1:23 PM The cable model number on the cables page for each interface is a link to the schematic. As far as the USB Interface II and the K3, you can ignore the audio functions as the USB II only provides isolation transformers and the K3's line out is already isolated. With the K3 and USB II you might as well connect the 3.5mm cables directly between the computer and Line In/Line Out. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julius Fazekas n2wn Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:24 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Julius, I did not have Interface II. I have chosen Microkeyer II instead because it has got built in sound card and Winkeyer. I use both. I originally ordered the cable for IC7000 and then built my own cable for K3. Anyway please note that it is pretty difficult to make the cable of such a quality that Microham supplies. All the schematics for all the cable is available from MicroHam. In Microkeyer it is not enough to change connectors. You have to set jumpers inside DB37 in the correct way. I suspect it should be similar with Interface II. These jumpers basically tell the device what radio you are going to connect. Different radios have different CAT specs and set of commands. 73, Igor UA9CDC - Original Message - From: Julius Fazekas n2wn phriend...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). Has anyone done this? Any caveats? Thanks, Julius Igor Sokolov-2 wrote: That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3093119.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3086899.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP filtering can do any good. 73, Eric WA6HHQ HowardZ wrote: Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Yeah...at what spacing? From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong) At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your front end. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP Icom may be the master of misleading advertising. The 3 kHz BW filter Eric refers to above has actually been measured at 5.2 kHz by Sherwood (assuming it's the same one used in the IC-7800). The following is a direct quote from Sherwood regarding the 7800's 3 kHz and 6 kHz (actually measured 11 kHz) filters below: The 3 kHz (5.2 kHz in my radio) roofing filter had a couple dB more IMD than the 6 kHz (11 kHz) filter. Source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ic7800/message/5417 I do not believe any Icom advertising...which is what Universal Radio's comments are based on. If you wait for ARRL, RSGB (already published?) or Sherwood tests of the 7600, my guess is its close-spaced IMD performance will be about 20-25 dB worse than the K3. Remember the advertising claims for the Ultimate Transceiver (the IC-7800)? Look where it falls in close-spaced IMD performance on Sherwood's site (80 dB is actually identical to a little K2...and $10,000 less expensive!) Regarding the anonymous RFEXPERT...this self-proclaimed expert reaches different conclusions about the K3 compared to genuine RF experts like W8JI and ON4UN (both now K3 users). Talk is cheap...especially when we don't know who's doing the talking. Independent test results speak louder to me than any Icom advertising. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3087937.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. That is One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod They will address this. Dan N0DT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Dan Copeland wrote: can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this. The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O performance between the two methods. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Errr...How do U get the audio from the rig to that microhammicrokeyertwo Igor om? Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Igor Sokolov ua9...@gmail.com To: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Because an RS232 port is much more nearly universal. Because it's pretty easy to add USB support to a serial port and a problem to add serial support to a USB port. And, if you really want a USB port with sound card included, design one, or get one of the several vendors of standalone boxes that do that to design one for the K3 to replace the IO panel of the K3. Because with built-in USB support gets more complicated. We were talking about this at the NCCC meeting last night, in fact. And I suspect there are other reasons. 73, doug From: Dan Copeland n...@mchsi.com Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:11:29 -0500 I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. That is One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod They will address this. Dan N0DT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote: I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB devices that are now unusable because their vendors stopped supporting them with drivers and/or did not freely publish the information required for 3rd parties to write drivers For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars on ebay, job done. If in a few years you find your version of windows/mac/linux no longer supports this cable then buy a new one for a couple of bucks. no need to buy a new radio in this case! Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL levels) and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split operation for logging purposes In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new radio then USB driver support for the R1500 will probably cease.. RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has been around a while. USB may be a standard but the software layer (drivers) needed to make USB stuff actually do anything is anything but 'standard' and this is where the manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials' USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus .. That is One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod They will address this. this is a mod I will not be buying .. Dan N0DT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert in the opposite direction. USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector. An accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily cause damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable). I've broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent strikes. Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard that incorporates audio + data/rig control. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
FYI. The 7600 also has the serial C1-V for those who need it. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Brendan Minish ei6iz.bren...@gmail.com To: Dan Copeland n...@mchsi.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote: I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB devices that are now unusable because their vendors stopped supporting them with drivers and/or did not freely publish the information required for 3rd parties to write drivers For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars on ebay, job done. If in a few years you find your version of windows/mac/linux no longer supports this cable then buy a new one for a couple of bucks. no need to buy a new radio in this case! Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL levels) and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split operation for logging purposes In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new radio then USB driver support for the R1500 will probably cease.. RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has been around a while. USB may be a standard but the software layer (drivers) needed to make USB stuff actually do anything is anything but 'standard' and this is where the manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials' USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus .. That is One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod They will address this. this is a mod I will not be buying .. Dan N0DT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Physical properties aside, USB's advantage is speed. We are running the K3's serial port at 38kb while USB can run 400,000kbJust a tad faster and that allows audio and video transfer. True, USB jacks are flimbsey little things, if it were mounted on an option board like the current RS232 is, it could be replaced without a lot of hassle. Sooner or later, ham rigs will either be the only thing around with RS232 or they will change over to USB like the rest of the world. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert in the opposite direction. USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector. An accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily cause damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable). I've broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent strikes. Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard that incorporates audio + data/rig control. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. The USB CI-V/Audio support in the IC-7200 and 7600 is nothing more than an off the shelf USB HUB ic, a USB Audio CODEC and a no-name USB UART. The USB CI-V support is very dependent on the quality of the OEM driver for the USB UART. I have not been able to determine if drivers are available for Macintosh or LINUX systems or whether certified drivers are available for Windows XP and Vista. For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost and red tape required for Windows Certification are very significant for a small company. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brendan Minish Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:29 PM To: Dan Copeland Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote: I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB devices that are now unusable because their vendors stopped supporting them with drivers and/or did not freely publish the information required for 3rd parties to write drivers For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars on ebay, job done. If in a few years you find your version of windows/mac/linux no longer supports this cable then buy a new one for a couple of bucks. no need to buy a new radio in this case! Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL levels) and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split operation for logging purposes In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new radio then USB driver support for the R1500 will probably cease.. RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has been around a while. USB may be a standard but the software layer (drivers) needed to make USB stuff actually do anything is anything but 'standard' and this is where the manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials' USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus .. That is One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod They will address this. this is a mod I will not be buying .. Dan N0DT -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. You can accomplish the same thing with the K3 and microHAM USB Interface III ... in Windows, OS-X or LINUX ... with far better receiver performance and save $1000. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:56 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hello Gentleman, It is interested in reading all your comments. Just look at another side of a coin. If you post the same question K3 vs IC7600 in the mail reflector of IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers. 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC --- 2009年6月17日 星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com 寫道﹕ 寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com 主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 收件人: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58 Yeah...at what spacing? From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong) At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your front end. de Doug KR2Q __ Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Sounds like a good plan to put the question on the 7600 reflector. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Johnny Siu Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 Hello Gentleman, It is interested in reading all your comments. Just look at another side of a coin. If you post the same question K3 vs IC7600 in the mail reflector of IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers. 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC --- 2009年6月17日 星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com 寫道﹕ 寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com 主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 收件人: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net 日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58 Yeah...at what spacing? From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong) At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm; for the K3=28dbm At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter anyway. If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your front end. de Doug KR2Q __ Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211. It was such a POS (using solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) that I gave it to a friend who also had one. I often said that it was a measure of his character that he accepted the gift and we still remained friends. So I am no friend of, or apologist for Icom. That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.) Wes N7WS --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com wrote: From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 To: HowardZ howa...@howardz.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP filtering can do any good. 73, Eric WA6HHQ HowardZ wrote: Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hi Wes, The difference is that we can go to as low as 200 Hz for our first IF filter ahead of the 2nd mixer, limiting what it sees for strong off frequency signals. The 7600 can only get down to 3 kHz (measured by Sherwood closer to 5 kHz) before its 2nd mixer, which is as wide as a barn door with respect to interfering signals. The closer to the front end of a radio you can get your narrowest filter, the better your overall strong signal dynamic range. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft Wes Stewart wrote: First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211. It was such a POS (using solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) that I gave it to a friend who also had one. I often said that it was a measure of his character that he accepted the gift and we still remained friends. So I am no friend of, or apologist for Icom. That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.) Wes N7WS --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com wrote: From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 To: HowardZ howa...@howardz.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP filtering can do any good. 73, Eric WA6HHQ HowardZ wrote: Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
can't understand why the K3 didn't come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. You don't want a USB port if you want to do anything circuit wise external to the K3 using CTS/DTR leads not used for serial signal. If the ONLY thing you EVER want to do with the serial port is talk to your PC, then USB will work. If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let them use the Ethernet jack. I'd like to see an ethernet interface module option so I can directly remote to it from a computer. Or an 811g wireless module for the same purpose. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hello all, Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say anything about dynamic range or something like that. IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare NR NB and DSP filter function]. K3 need to change in K4(my opinion): 1, 13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter. 2, Shield design. 3, DSP function improvement. 4, true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port). By the way, overall I like the K3 very much. David/BA4RF On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk wrote: There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hello David, I also have all these 3 rigs on my shack and doing comparison everyday. Your observation does not surprise me. However, I would like to mention that I am a 99% voice mode operator. 73 Johnny Siu VR2XMC --- 2009年6月17日 星期三，chen dave lowb...@gmail.com 寫道﹕ 寄件人: chen dave lowb...@gmail.com 主題: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 收件人: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk 副本(CC): elecraft@mailman.qth.net 日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午9:36 Hello all, Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say anything about dynamic range or something like that. IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare NR NB and DSP filter function]. K3 need to change in K4(my opinion): 1, 13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter. 2, Shield design. 3, DSP function improvement. 4, true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port). By the way, overall I like the K3 very much. David/BA4RF On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk wrote: There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Yahoo! 推出全...@ymail.com 電郵地址，想登記你的新身份? 請前往 http://hk..promo.yahoo.com/mail/ymail/ 了解更多相關資訊! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Hi Steve, The audio from the rig is analog. I have just said there is one connection to the computer but sure there are several lines going from Microkeyer to the Radio (sound, ptt,cw,cat). Still there are other advantages like the ability to create Y connection to the CAT of the trx similar to LP-bridge. 73, Igor UA9CDC - Original Message - From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: Igor Sokolov ua9...@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 Errr...How do U get the audio from the rig to that microhammicrokeyertwo Igor om? Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Igor Sokolov ua9...@gmail.com To: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps. 73, Igor UA9CDC No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: Dave G4AON elecr...@astromag.co.uk To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters. The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy. 73 Dave, G4AON = Universal radio lists the radio as having 104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point . Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list. However, I do not see any mention of diversity receive. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
It's too bad that RFEXPERT does not identify himself so that one could measure RFEXPERT's ability to make such an analysis. 73, Bob W5OV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave G4AON Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:20 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where RFEXPERT is comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3. http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Mark, Certainly everyone is entitled to his own opinion and I did note that he makes comments both pro and con on both radios - sort of. It is my biased personal opinion that such anonymous critiques are not worth reading nor worth taking any note of since the source is completely unknown and unverifiable. 73, Bob W5OV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:41 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 Not necessary. Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis. If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points for both models. And his comment is either 'recognizeable' or not. I do not need his name, I read his comment a few times carefully and I can verify his positive and negative comments on the K3. In the end it is up to everyone themselves to decide wether the comment is valid in their situation or not. 73 Mark, PA5MW Robert Naumann wrote: It's too bad that RFEXPERT does not identify himself so that one could measure RFEXPERT's ability to make such an analysis. 73, Bob W5OV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis. However, it is not appropriate to shill for a manufacturer. Analysis should be balanced and based on accurate information. If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points for both models. Unfortunately, each of his complaints about the K3 have been resolved in current software - particularly the AGC mush and wandering power in SSB. Compared with the K3, the 7600 is overpriced and lacking. Dual Watch is a joke compared to the KRX3 and even with USB pasted over the CI-V interface, the protocol still fails even to allow access to BOTH VFOs without actually making the second VFO active! 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600 Not necessary. Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis. If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points for both models. And his comment is either 'recognizeable' or not. I do not need his name, I read his comment a few times carefully and I can verify his positive and negative comments on the K3. In the end it is up to everyone themselves to decide wether the comment is valid in their situation or not. 73 Mark, PA5MW Robert Naumann wrote: It's too bad that RFEXPERT does not identify himself so that one could measure RFEXPERT's ability to make such an analysis. 73, Bob W5OV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
We beat this review to death two months ago. Check the archives. Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis. Compared with the K3, the 7600 is overpriced and lacking. Dual Watch is a joke compared to the KRX3 and even with USB pasted over the CI-V interface, the protocol still fails even to allow access to BOTH VFOs without actually making the second VFO active! 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
No, that was his review of the IC-7700. The subject review of the IC-7600 was just posted yesterday. Bob NW8L On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM, SidShusterman k...@comcast.net wrote: We beat this review to death two months ago. Check the archives. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
