Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
To all: I'm enjoying this thread because it directly addresses my two greatest concerns. First of course is human error. The second concern is connector problems. Elecraft has addressed the first by using kit options on the K3/P3/KPA500 so that I'm more aware of the result of my actions, and also by the outstanding communications interface between the K3/P3/KPA500 units. Then there is the second concern of connector failure. Elecraft has maximized the digital capabilities within the K3, thereby limiting that cabling concerns. They have also created a fool proof RF path for TX/RX (I.e. the KISS KPA500.) Now, the Elecraft team has asked what features we would like on the upcoming KAT500. Here are mine: 1/ Maintain the integration that exists between K3, P3 and KPA500. The threat here is that if they try to placate those with max power amplifiers, Elecraft would open Pandora's Box for problems not of their making. What's going to stop the human error of slamming max power across an 8:1 SWR and causing a KAT500 crispy-critter? This would drain company resources. 2/ Keep the KISS principle in the TX/RX path. I live in a restricted deed area. About 80 percent of all new housing has restrictive CCRs. This limits me to two stealthy wire antennas. Two RF outputs are fine with me. Why not make a BASIC tuner with the OPTION of adding an expanded switching matrix? That way I'm not paying for something I don't need. Elecraft has created the awesome K line. It is based on a long line of frugal, super effective capabilities. I hope that Elecraft will continue to focus on THAT K line. Their forte is one baby step at a time . options, options, options, . 73, Fred, K3#2241, P3#100, KPA500 #115 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Let's be clear. There is absolutely no problem building a very wide range antenna 'tuner' that can handle kilowatts of RF at an SWR of 10:1 or even much higher. Such a tuner is very easily fabricated, but requires physical space with large switches to avoid corona discharges and uses big air-wound coils and large wide-spaced transmitting type variable capacitors to work efficiently. It's the demand for a compact, fast QSY system that poses the huge engineering problems. And that's why the most popular Ham antenna systems (including tuners) are the most popular. They aren't necessarily the most cost effective or the most efficient. What they do that makes them popular is they are a decent tradeoff between the power handling and rapid QSY capabilities many Hams today demand. Those of us who don't insist on that compact system, fast QSY capability have an easy life, Hi! 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports - 4 may be the sweet spot
I second W3FPR's motion of 4 outputs for each KAT500. I had asked for 5 but will make do with 4. Since I operate from 3 different QTH's several times a year, I need to keep the antenna setup simple, which requires either the amplifier or the tuner to do automatic bandswitching on a minimum of 4 antennas. Thanks 73, Dick- K9OM In a message dated 7/14/2011 10:28:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net writes: That is a lot of connectors, but might be properly addressed by offering 4 outputs for each KAT500 output __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
1/ Tuner can select only for the output port in use, this leaves 'the other choice' available for other radios. If the tuner is currently on antenna port 2 then it does not drive the outputs associated with antenna port1 2/ Tuner can remember previous tunings per selected antenna driver (rather than per port) 5/ with an input for interlocking logic the KRC500 ( thus the KPA500/K3) could be made aware when no antenna is selected and select a a second choice or even inhibit TX 4/ Space savings, the KRC2 has buttons and features that are not required 'just for selecting antennas' 6/ more reasons to buy the KAT500 ;-) The KRC2 still does not support 6m with the K3 and much of the 'glue' to make this happen is going to be already in the KAT500 as it is already going to have to decode the band and band segment that the K3 is tuned to 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 17:01 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Why not just use two KRC2s? They are complete and shipping. :-) 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/13/2011 4:22 PM, Brendan Minish wrote: I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout. 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 15:34 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Unfortunately, this scenerio is exactly what I expect many with KAT-500's to actually try and tune. Unless there is some logic built in to the tuner to inhibit operation for these crazy conditions, the future is going to be full of toasted toroids. The scenerio goes as follows. The tuner tunes up a 8:1 SWR OK at tune power levels. The amp is turned on and FLASH. The amp might be protected but the tuner won't be. This isn't fiction. The roadsides are littered with autotuners that have been fried. Of course the tuner is at fault, not the user A tuner is not a cure all. You've got to get your antenna(s) to reasonable impedance levels first. Hopefully, Elecraft will supply some kind of operating range info. Prudent users will then stay within those limits. BTW how do you remote antenna tuner users protect against lightning destroying the tuner? 73 de Brian/K3KO On 7/14/2011 04:50, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: A 10:1 VSWR load rating is craziness - particularly for a 600W rated tuner. 10:1 VSWR means 5KV/50A peak ratings ... something that would handle 3:1 SWR at the W/VE legal limit. 3:1 or 5:1 is far more reasonable for a high power tuner ... and can handle the open wire fed doublet or inverted L as long as the user avoids pathological lengths of feedline (1/4 wave of open wire line) or antenna length (full wave doublet or half wave inverted L). - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3762 - Release Date: 07/13/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I do not have need of a tuner for any antennas so I am looking at this from a K3/K3/KPA500 configuration The Magic Box to control: - Minimum of 4 antennas per bank. Additional banks can be added so if you have an antenna per band for bands such as 160-6M or more you can accommodate them. - There could be Bank A - which could have multiple banks to cover multiple antennas to give you Bank A1, A2, A3, A4, etc. - There could also be Bank B (and also C, D, etc.) which also could have a set of antennas - Using the K3 Ant1/Ant2 switch to control two antennas per band - Bank A and Bank B. (This is the one feature that isn't available off the shelf, at least I can't find it). - Auto position so the programmed antenna for a particular band tracks the K3 or multiple K3's. - Manual position (on the Magic Box or on the PC screen) with indicators to select and show which Bank (antenna) has been selected. The indicators can be programmable for a particular antenna. - An easy way to select antenna in a stack Hey, maybe two KRC2's with a DIGIOUT1 interface controlling which KRC2 is selected? That would take care of my needs. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 2:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:34 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Craig Smith wrote: I certainly understand the impracticality in terms of cost and size of designing the basic KAT500 with a large number of output ports. My personal wish is that an optional external Elecraft unit will eventually be available that will allow for port expansion based on the user's desire for number and configuration. It should be waterproof (or easily made so) and controlled by the same bus as the external KAT500. Waterproof (or easily made so) is very important because the optimum location for an ATU is remote from the shack, as close as possible to the antenna(s) so that the main feedline is operated at low SWR. Waterproofing requirements vary hugely around the world, and any design errors will have very expensive consequences, so a designer in California shouldn't even try to guess what is needed in Scotland, for example :-). On the other hand, customers in Arizona shouldn't have to pay for heavy-duty waterproofing that they don't need. Please let us hope that one version of the KAT500 will be a bare board-level module that users can package to meet their own environmental requirements. If anything goes wrong, I'd much rather blame myself than blame Elecraft. Returning to antenna switching, most stations will also have a number of antennas that don't need an ATU. These users may be content with only two switched outputs on the KAT500 itself, and instead will want to use a normal 50-ohm remote switch *ahead* of the KAT500. But look where this discussion is headed... the more antenna switching possibilities we envision, the less realistic it becomes for the KAT500 to meet them all. However, there is a half-way solution which could be implemented at relatively low cost. That is to provide a number of open-collector relay drivers within the KAT500, remotely configurable through the control bus. These relay outputs could then be used to create custom antenna switching arrangements outside of the KAT500. When the KAT500 is commanded to energize one of its external relay ports, it would know that a different antenna is being connected to the output of the tuner, and could then switch to a different bank of stored settings. This system would greatly expand the flexibility of the KAT500 at very little hardware cost (no RF-rated parts required, only an addressable relay driver array and a pin header; all the rest is done in firmware and the configuration utility). It would also be completely transparent to anyone who didn't want to use it - they wouldn't even know it was there. The key to making this work is to incorporate the external relay drivers *within* the KAT500 control system. Independent external switching wouldn't work because the KAT500 wouldn't be aware of it, and would be continually forced to retune. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
How about taking the money you'd spend for the KAT500 and put it towards antenna(s) that don't need a tuner? There are lots of multiband antennas out there. Some cost less than the likely cost of a KAT500. 73 de Brian/K3KO - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3761 - Release Date: 07/12/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
On 7/13/2011 2:58 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: How about taking the money you'd spend for the KAT500 and put it towards antenna(s) that don't need a tuner? There are lots of multiband antennas out there. Some cost less than the likely cost of a KAT500. That's a REALLY false choice. All of us are limited by what we CAN put up, both by our real estate (including legal restrictions) and cost. A smart ham will apply MANY criteria when choosing which antenna(s) are best for his QTH and operating needs. Mutliband SWITCHING is only one of those design criteria, and rarely the most important one. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Greetings Ian ... Yes, your proposed idea would be an acceptable approach for me. As you point out, the two main things are to have the tuner and antenna switching at a remote location and to have the control mechanism for all the switching tightly integrated into the K3/KAT500 or K3/KPA500/KAT500 system. Each band should have at least two (and preferably 3 or 4) combinations of memorized tuner settings and relay driver selections similar to the way the current KAT100 provides for Ant 1 and Ant 2 settings. I would be comfortable with homebrewing the actual relay switching, antenna connectors, waterproofing, etc. if Elecraft provides the integrated control structure and supporting firmware. The user would then select via menu which of the relay drivers to be activated for each of the (hopefully 4) antenna selections on a per band basis. 73 Craig AC0DS Please let us hope that one version of the KAT500 will be a bare board-level module that users can package to meet their own environmental requirements. However, there is a half-way solution which could be implemented at relatively low cost. That is to provide a number of open-collector relay drivers within the KAT500, remotely configurable through the control bus. These relay outputs could then be used to create custom antenna switching arrangements outside of the KAT500. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Brian, would you list for us the multi-band antennas you know that can cover all of several bands with a SWR that will allow full power from the K3 without using some sort of variable matching mechanism? Of course the SteppIR will do it, but it has its own variable matching mechanism built in and is very likely much more expensive than a KAT-500 is likely to be priced. Most Tri-banders have CW and Phone settings. Most all band verticals will only match 75 KHz or so on 80 or 75 meters and all band dipoles maybe 150 or 200 KHz. G5RVs are difinitely candidates for matching devices. Of course, some manufacturers offer products with a built in matching network that is low Q enough that it appears to have a very wide bandwidth. Unfortunately these seem to dissapate most of the power in the matching network. We all know that contacts can be made with very low power radiated. But no one that I know favors putting out 100 or 500 watts to radiate 5 watts or less and heat the antenna matcher with the rest. Joel Hallas, W1ZR has a very nice explanation of why and how Antenna Tuners on pages 52 and 53 of the August 2011 QST in his Getting on the Air column. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 4:58:41 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports How about taking the money you'd spend for the KAT500 and put it towards antenna(s) that don't need a tuner? There are lots of multiband antennas out there. Some cost less than the likely cost of a KAT500. 73 de Brian/K3KO - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3761 - Release Date: 07/12/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hi Cookie, My Alpha-Delta pretty much meets the no-tuner-needed requirement. It's just a fan dipole with another name. (:-) I'm aware of at least five of them in this sparsely ham populated area. It -is- bandwidth limited on 80/75, but mine's cut for 3550. My station is often used in major contests (KE7X) and we put up the AD as a 2nd station antenna that doesn't need any attention ... just switch to it and go. It's extremely well-made, but very heavy. It's at 65', help up with 3/8 Dacron rope and heavy pulleys. 73! Ken - K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I'll second that Alpha-Delta reference. Full band coverage on 40/20/15/10, plus about 100kHz on 75/80, partial-full coverage on 17m although it isn't cut for it, and some 6m as well. Full coverage 80m-6m with tuner...and even 160m, but the efficiency has to be terrible. And easily handles 500w+ 73 Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken - K0PP kengk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cookie, My Alpha-Delta pretty much meets the no-tuner-needed requirement. It's just a fan dipole with another name. (:-) I'm aware of at least five of them in this sparsely ham populated area. It -is- bandwidth limited on 80/75, but mine's cut for 3550. My station is often used in major contests (KE7X) and we put up the AD as a 2nd station antenna that doesn't need any attention ... just switch to it and go. It's extremely well-made, but very heavy. It's at 65', help up with 3/8 Dacron rope and heavy pulleys. 73! Ken - K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Dave K3DCW www.k3dcw.net Real radio bounces off of the sky __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Of course my last post on this topic was in jest (humor). Here are a couple diagrams and photos to illustrate how ridiculous it is: http://www.kl7uw.com/station%20layout.htm this is pretty close to the current configuration (note several multi-pos coax switches): http://www.kl7uw.com/2011_Station.jpg thru-wall coax patch panel (11 N, 9 UHF, 2 BNC, 4 TNC, 2 F connectors) plus a few coax come thru holes in the panel (picture before all cables were connected): http://www.kl7uw.com/Cableway_inside.jpg This picture shows the antenna switch panel below the FT-847: http://www.kl7uw.com/shackleft_2011.jpg No amount of antenna connections on the KAT-500 would come close to satisfying my needs. I have two 50-foot towers separated 130-feet apart, plus a short satellite antenna tower and a big dish also separated by long distance. A single antenna tuner will not do it. But for the average HF station 3-5 connections probably would. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com == __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
The request was in response to a statement that the KAT-500 was not required if an all band antenna was used. The challenge was to name an antenna that will give full coverage WITHOUT TUNER making the KAT-500 superfluous. Of course, full coverage of 20 is 14.0 to 14.35 and 80 and 160 are included. Alpha-Delta makes nice products, but achieving full coverage on 160, 80, 20 and 10 is elusive. Maybe you only work CW and don't care about the phone band or 10 meter FM, but if so, you don't require full coverage. Even 40 requires you to accept a pretty high SWR at the ends to cover the whole 40 meter band. LPs can be good for broad banding, but even the RCA LPs that I saw on Guam with the rotors that weighed about a ton only covered 7.0 MHz and up. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Dave Wright hfradio...@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 11:43:49 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I'll second that Alpha-Delta reference. Full band coverage on 40/20/15/10, plus about 100kHz on 75/80, partial-full coverage on 17m although it isn't cut for it, and some 6m as well. Full coverage 80m-6m with tuner...and even 160m, but the efficiency has to be terrible. And easily handles 500w+ 73 Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken - K0PP kengk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cookie, My Alpha-Delta pretty much meets the no-tuner-needed requirement. It's just a fan dipole with another name. (:-) I'm aware of at least five of them in this sparsely ham populated area. It -is- bandwidth limited on 80/75, but mine's cut for 3550. My station is often used in major contests (KE7X) and we put up the AD as a 2nd station antenna that doesn't need any attention ... just switch to it and go. It's extremely well-made, but very heavy. It's at 65', help up with 3/8 Dacron rope and heavy pulleys. 73! Ken - K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Dave K3DCW www.k3dcw.net Real radio bounces off of the sky __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
'Cookie' Noted...but I think full-band, no-tuner coverage of 40/20/15/10 isn't too shabby. Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:18 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrco...@yahoo.com wrote: The request was in response to a statement that the KAT-500 was not required if an all band antenna was used. The challenge was to name an antenna that will give full coverage WITHOUT TUNER making the KAT-500 superfluous. Of course, full coverage of 20 is 14.0 to 14.35 and 80 and 160 are included. Alpha-Delta makes nice products, but achieving full coverage on 160, 80, 20 and 10 is elusive. Maybe you only work CW and don't care about the phone band or 10 meter FM, but if so, you don't require full coverage. Even 40 requires you to accept a pretty high SWR at the ends to cover the whole 40 meter band. LPs can be good for broad banding, but even the RCA LPs that I saw on Guam with the rotors that weighed about a ton only covered 7.0 MHz and up. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart -- *From:* Dave Wright hfradio...@gmail.com *To:* elecraft@mailman.qth.net *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 11:43:49 AM *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I'll second that Alpha-Delta reference. Full band coverage on 40/20/15/10, plus about 100kHz on 75/80, partial-full coverage on 17m although it isn't cut for it, and some 6m as well. Full coverage 80m-6m with tuner...and even 160m, but the efficiency has to be terrible. And easily handles 500w+ 73 Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken - K0PP kengk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cookie, My Alpha-Delta pretty much meets the no-tuner-needed requirement. It's just a fan dipole with another name. (:-) I'm aware of at least five of them in this sparsely ham populated area. It -is- bandwidth limited on 80/75, but mine's cut for 3550. My station is often used in major contests (KE7X) and we put up the AD as a 2nd station antenna that doesn't need any attention ... just switch to it and go. It's extremely well-made, but very heavy. It's at 65', help up with 3/8 Dacron rope and heavy pulleys. 73! Ken - K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Dave K3DCW www.k3dcw.net Real radio bounces off of the sky __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Dave K3DCW www.k3dcw.net Real radio bounces off of the sky __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
And full band coverage of 3.5 to 4.0 MHz with an SWR no greater than 2:1 except at the very high end of the band where it goes to 2.5 can easily be achieved, I have one. Take a look at the ARRL Handbook page 9-16 and you can see it. The magic is in the feedline - 1 wavelength of 50 ohm (RG-213) followed by 1/4 wavelength of 75 ohm RG-11. I hang mine as an inverted vee. I would think the same principle could be extended to 160 meters if full band coverage there is desired. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/13/2011 1:28 PM, Dave Wright wrote: 'Cookie' Noted...but I think full-band, no-tuner coverage of 40/20/15/10 isn't too shabby. Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:18 PM, WILLIS COOKEwrco...@yahoo.com wrote: The request was in response to a statement that the KAT-500 was not required if an all band antenna was used. The challenge was to name an antenna that will give full coverage WITHOUT TUNER making the KAT-500 superfluous. Of course, full coverage of 20 is 14.0 to 14.35 and 80 and 160 are included. Alpha-Delta makes nice products, but achieving full coverage on 160, 80, 20 and 10 is elusive. Maybe you only work CW and don't care about the phone band or 10 meter FM, but if so, you don't require full coverage. Even 40 requires you to accept a pretty high SWR at the ends to cover the whole 40 meter band. LPs can be good for broad banding, but even the RCA LPs that I saw on Guam with the rotors that weighed about a ton only covered 7.0 MHz and up. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart -- *From:* Dave Wrighthfradio...@gmail.com *To:* elecraft@mailman.qth.net *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 11:43:49 AM *Subject:* Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I'll second that Alpha-Delta reference. Full band coverage on 40/20/15/10, plus about 100kHz on 75/80, partial-full coverage on 17m although it isn't cut for it, and some 6m as well. Full coverage 80m-6m with tuner...and even 160m, but the efficiency has to be terrible. And easily handles 500w+ 73 Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken - K0PPkengk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Cookie, My Alpha-Delta pretty much meets the no-tuner-needed requirement. It's just a fan dipole with another name. (:-) I'm aware of at least five of them in this sparsely ham populated area. It -is- bandwidth limited on 80/75, but mine's cut for 3550. My station is often used in major contests (KE7X) and we put up the AD as a 2nd station antenna that doesn't need any attention ... just switch to it and go. It's extremely well-made, but very heavy. It's at 65', help up with 3/8 Dacron rope and heavy pulleys. 73! Ken - K0PP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Dave K3DCW www.k3dcw.net Real radio bounces off of the sky __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
IMHO the demand for a solid state linear amp with antenna tuner and multiple antenna ports can be split into two niches. 1. Fully integrated portable system of PA, antenna tuner, antenna switch with multiple ports and programmable band decoder all in one relatively small package. This system has limited flexibility but appeals to portable shack users, DXpeditions etc. One good example is Expert 1K-FA which has 2 inputs, 4 antenna ports, limited SO2R using separate RX antenna, built in antenna tuner with huge number of memories for each of the two inputs/ band/antenna port and very nice built in band decoder that supports any type of transceiver. Expert 2K-FA goes even further having 6 ports and the possibility to remote the built in antenna tuner. 2) Separate sophisticated programmable band decoder that controls external (local or remote) antenna switches. This is applicable for stations with many different antennas because the system can be tailored to virtually any need. Microham Station Master with external antenna switches is a good example. You may ask how does it relates to this reflector? Simple. I use Elecraft K3 in combo with Expert 1K-FA and have inverted L for 160, inverted V for 80m, 2el Yagi for 40meters and tribander for 20-15-10 (exactly 4 antennas) My friend R9DX has 7 towers with multiples stacks and at least 4 antennas for each band. He is using pair of K3s with pair of Microham Station Masters and different antenna switches in a pretty complicated SO2R configuration. Pictures can be found here http://ua9clb.narod.ru/ 73, Igor UA9CDC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:34 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
For remote.switching signal on the coax. 73, Dick - KA5KKT _ I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Eric, To be totally versatile, I would think two antennas per band would have to be available - and that means a total capability of 18 selections. Yes, the band/antenna should be controlled by the K3, and a 9 position remote switch on each of the KAT500 outputs should serve any need (a maximum of 2 antennas per band). That is a lot of connectors, but might be properly addressed by offering 4 outputs for each KAT500 output (8 total) that the user could configure for the bands desired - similar to the KRC2 configurator application. For those who need more, offer an additional 5 x 2 outputs as an option. In my particular case, I have 8 feelines that would have to be handled. 1 for 160/80/40, another for 80/40. 1 for 60 meters, one for a 20/15/10 meter dipole, one for a 20/15/10 meter beam, one for 30/17/12 meter dipole, one for an 80 through 10m vertical, and one for a 6 meter beam. So just looking at the combinations and permutations, I would need to configure each KAT500/SW output for the particular combination of bands it would be used for, and my needs would likely not match those of anyone else, so configuration of the bands active for any one output connector would be needed. I have tried arranging my switching automatically, and have given up because it does not cover all situations I want. To make matters more complex, I want to switch those feedlines to one of 3 transceivers in the shack, and so I have 4 feedlines for 160 through 6 meters coming into the shack to make that possible. Good luck on satisfying even a majority with any one given solution unless each output is configurable for any combination of bands. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/13/2011 2:13 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:34 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Whoops, I forgot about the multiband vertical - I need one of 3 antennas to be selected on several bands, not two as I mentioned. How many antennas do you have for any one band? Rhetorical question, but Eric might like to know if he is thinking about the switching arrangement to follow the KAT500. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/13/2011 2:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Eric, To be totally versatile, I would think two antennas per band would have to be available - and that means a total capability of 18 selections. Yes, the band/antenna should be controlled by the K3, and a 9 position remote switch on each of the KAT500 outputs should serve any need (a maximum of 2 antennas per band). That is a lot of connectors, but might be properly addressed by offering 4 outputs for each KAT500 output (8 total) that the user could configure for the bands desired - similar to the KRC2 configurator application. For those who need more, offer an additional 5 x 2 outputs as an option. In my particular case, I have 8 feelines that would have to be handled. 1 for 160/80/40, another for 80/40. 1 for 60 meters, one for a 20/15/10 meter dipole, one for a 20/15/10 meter beam, one for 30/17/12 meter dipole, one for an 80 through 10m vertical, and one for a 6 meter beam. So just looking at the combinations and permutations, I would need to configure each KAT500/SW output for the particular combination of bands it would be used for, and my needs would likely not match those of anyone else, so configuration of the bands active for any one output connector would be needed. I have tried arranging my switching automatically, and have given up because it does not cover all situations I want. To make matters more complex, I want to switch those feedlines to one of 3 transceivers in the shack, and so I have 4 feedlines for 160 through 6 meters coming into the shack to make that possible. Good luck on satisfying even a majority with any one given solution unless each output is configurable for any combination of bands. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/13/2011 2:13 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:34 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
1. At least eleven antenna ports: 6 primary bands 160-10, 3 WARC bands, 6 and 2 meters. All of these bands are possible with a K3. 2. At least two radio ports for SO2R, but more would be nice. 3. Generalized ability to user-configure any antenna port to any band. Example use cases are a tribander, a 40 meter dipole used on 15 meters and a 10 meter antenna used for 12 meters. 4. Maximum integration with the K3, KPA500, KAT500 and KRC2 as possible. 5. Remotable, for those who wish to mount it on a tower closer to the antennas, with only the radio coaxes and control cable back to the operating position. Ed - W0YK Eric, WA6HHQ, asked: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
As a general answer, I think 4 ports per band would be sufficient for most of us. But by that I mean 4 antenna selections per band. Some of these would be multiband antennas that are used on more than one band and only need one connector to the switching network. Balanced output connections should be available as well as UHF connectors for unbalanced loads. If Elecraft decides to make an enclosed network that includes output connectors, I would still like to see a few relay driver outputs available for further customization by the user. One example is that I need to switch the ladderline feed on my doublet so that the two conductors are shorted together and fed against ground as a Marconi on the low bands. This can easily be done with external relay(s) if drivers are provided. I also very much like the idea of a bare KAT500 option with a host of relay drivers. The user could then build their own enclosure with a suitable number and types of connectors and relays. Other custom configuration chores, such as mentioned in the previous paragraph, could also be accommodated with this approach. Of course the user would need to provide a suitable enclosure and weatherproofing. 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Guys - Please reply just to the list. I am getting two of each reply. :-) 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hi, That could be a unit that fits well with the Elecraft concept of a basic kit with the ability to expand as needed with options. Since most of the parts for a unit of this type will be human sized it could even make those that like the smell of rosin happy. If the unit was sold as say a basic, one in with three or four outputs it could be made expandable. The box could be pre punched with knockouts like electrical boxes or have hole plugs. The kits of parts might be marketed to add inputs or outputs onto the main PCB. Broadcast Xmitters run some pretty high power modules. I'll not get into costs but if not prohibitive maybe an input/output add on module concept might be doable. No box will do it all, but an expandable concept might just expand the marketing possibilities too. Whatever it ends up doing I'm sure it will do it well. For statistical purposes 2 in and 4 out would cover my 160 to 6 needs now and for the foreseeable future.Remote ability would be a high priority if for no other reason than putting the cabling (mess) out in the garage out of the way. 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) K2TKR On 7/13/2011 2:13 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
My needs are simple. I'd vote for a simpler, lower-cost box which is expandable by way of relays, external box, etc. 2-4 outputs is fine by me. I think a simpler, expandable box that could be used by more users is preferable (from a user standpoint as well as a biz standpoint) to a more targeted, higher cost one. Besides, then you can come out with another great product later :) --Andrew, NV1B .. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Here's a thought. I was faced with the problem of having a fairly large selection of HF antennas, and 3 operating stations. What to do? After some thought, I decided to create a matrix-type switch that could control 10 different antennas into any of 5 rigs, in any combination. That equates to 50 different setups, not counting multiple feeds. The controller also allows multiples, in that any antenna can be connected to more than one rig, and any rig can be connected to more than one antenna. This is occasionally useful for special receiving situations or experimentation. The controller features a locking function that works with my station controller (the gadget that manages which rig is allowed to be on air and which audio or keying source is delivered where, as well as audio outputs from the associated receivers). The lockout function makes it impossible to transmit into another rig, or cause any other similar problem. If I could have my 'druthers, I would have integrated the lockout function directly with the rigs themselves, but when it was being built, very few rigs (if any) were available that could do this. Modern rigs, such as the K3 could accommodate this, I think. I do have to be careful and not key up a rig internally (using it's own transmit function button). But there is a BIG red light that comes on to help remind me. Only did that once, years ago, with a Kenwood TS-940S, but that rig's input overload protector handled the fault with no other apparent damage. My version does have a small amount of cross-talk (about -50 dB) that a somewhat better design could reduce further. Overall, the project was extremely successful, and works better than I could have envisioned. It uses a control-head + switch unit architecture (the actual matrix switch is mounted away from the operating position). It was NOT cheap, but 20 years later is still performing flawlessly, so the cost per year continues to decline. I was able to recoup some of the expense by selling a hat-full of other coax switches - which by the way would drive me crazy to operate as there never seemed to be the right combination for all the different setups I wanted to use. I did NOT attempt to create something that would perform at VHF and above. My switch is strictly a HF/MF device. The insertion loss is on the order of 0.5 dB or less, depending on band. Measured VSWR, last time I looked, tends to stay below 1.25:1 on any frequency or equipment combination, except of course for multiple connections. Not perfect, but good enough. An antenna coupler makes what minor corrections are needed, if I were to care about such things, which usually I don't. Getting that last little bit of SWR out is not worth the trouble, usually, particularly at HF. VHF and above is different. Handles 1500 watts with ease. - Jim, KL7CC . Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
i have 5 hf ants available to two radios..l...k3 icom plus a third output on the panel... use top ten devices a/b boxes ( lots of isolation)... plus also allow whichever is the main radio to select from two amps... my old herc II instant on and my legal bigger box none was automated so far no smoke,.,,,\\ now that i just assembled my kpa500 . do i sell my 12 volt herc ? ...probably not bill ny9h/3 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
To all Look at Kessler Engineering' CX-Auto (and add on for the AT-Auto Palstar) 8 outputs controlled by the tuner. Or remember back to the Alpha DAS controlled by the 87A and 3rd party relay boxes, up to 36 antennas. I agree with Eric get the cables out of the shack. 73 Larry K1ZW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout. 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 15:34 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Eric, I have two feed lines to my farm. I use a CAT5 cable to my switch in the back yard. An Ameritron RCS-8V is the remote switch. I have another 2 line power cable to a remote tuner to allow use of these antennas. I currently have to use the switching to disconnect the antennas to ground at the remote site. I also use in shack switching to ground the antennas when I am not using them. I do not have the KPA500 and use the THP 2.5kfx. I need to switch remotely and tune as well. I use the W2 to monitor SWR and switch out the amp if SWR runs too high. This is an issue when trying to tune. I do this using lower power first. I would like to simplify all of this so when you get past the in-shack tuner and move on to remote design, I would like help to resolve these issues via software and control in the shack. Hope this is not too tall an order. :-) (Oh, I would like use my K2 and TS2000 in this system as well with most of the switching to be automated.) 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I'd like to redirect this discussion to what is be desired for an external antenna / rig switching add-on box for the K3/KPA500 and/or KAT500. This question may have been missed in my original posting (below). From that posting: A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:34 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Why not just use two KRC2s? They are complete and shipping. :-) 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/13/2011 4:22 PM, Brendan Minish wrote: I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout. 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 15:34 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I admit, I have a dog in this fight but I see the calls for all manner of add-on antenna switching hardware for the KAT-500, and/or KPA-500 as more than a little lily gilding ... and too much cost/effort for very little benefit. 1) antenna switches *after* a tuner are problematic to start with. The switch/relay needs to be designed to handle a substantial excess voltage and excess current if it is to be reliable at high SWR. Some of that can be mitigated by limiting the power levels (e.g., 600 W from the KPA-500) but I've already seen posts where US stations want to be able to handle their legal limit amplifiers. Realistically, at even 3:1 SWR that a couple KV and/or nearly 10A on peaks. Relays to handle those levels with good impedance match and reliability don't come cheap. 2) there is no way that any antenna switching logic built into the K3, KPA-500 or KAT-500 can provide switching for multiple antennas per band ... perhaps the ANT1/ANT2 logic of the K3 can be hijacked *IF* the second antenna port of the KAT-3 is disabled but that still limits the choice to two - not three or more antennas as some have expressed a need for. 3) there are another group that express a need for matrix switch capability ... to be able to select and route multiple antennas to multiple transceivers, possibly with the option to select one amplifier for each transceiver from among a pool of amplifiers. 4) adding the ability to switch any of several antennas to either of two antenna ports or the K3 or KAT-500 is a prime example of lily gilding ... particularly since both antenna ports are not used at the same time. However, that switching capability is already available in SO2R antenna switches from several sources - it only takes a little bit of decoding the K3 DIGOUT1 and band data lines if one were so inclined. All of these, and other wants are nice on their own but not as a standard capability for the K-line. Most of the wants can/should be satisfied with already announced/available products that deal with antenna switching/station management. After all, these are system integration items/issues that are not specific to the K3, KAT-500 or KPA-500 ... integrating the capability into those products increases their cost for all users *and* limits the use of those capabilities to those with the Elecraft specific hardware. Any good businessman will tell you that increasing cost and limiting the market are a bad combination ... Much of this reminds me of someone trying to renovate a kitchen in the morning and restore a classic car in the afternoon and expecting Craftsman or Kobalt to provide them a single Swiss army knife with all of the tools to do both jobs. It's neither practical nor logical. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 7/13/2011 7:22 PM, Brendan Minish wrote: I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout. 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 15:34 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Personally, I think that we need a reality check here people. Let's face it, what we 'want' and what we 'need' are two sometimes vastly different things. Wanting to be able to switch up to 18 antennas is so far outside the realms of sanity to try to implement in an antenna tuner it's ridiculous. Let's get back to basics, I am told that the KAT500 tuner will most likely be available in two formats, one a desktop unit and one a remote unit. In either format I think that it should have not more than 2 inputs, 3 unbalanced and one balanced output and that the tuner should be capable of matching a 10:1 VSWR load. (As compared to 50 ohms) Those are the basic requirements IMHO. Now, on to packaging. The desktop unit should be as small as possible but I personally don't think that 'P3 size' will be big enough due to the high voltages that can (and do) develop in the tuner, in a P3 sized case there would exist the real possibility of flashover with disastrous results for the tuner and / or amplifier / rig. I envisage something of similar size (for the desktop units at least) to a K3 if anything. This will give more than enough space for the tuner plus the associated switching needs to select the different antennae. The remote unit will no doubt be smaller due to not needing a capability of local human interaction and will probably have only one input. As well the remote unit will need waterproofing to IP65 or better. Functionality: I envisage that the desktop unit shall be not only able to select between the 2 rig inputs 3 antenna outlets but can do so according to the band that the radio (I am assuming that an Elecraft K3 or least a K2 will be used with it.) is on and do so automagically via AUXBUS control. If the transceiver used is not an Elecraft rig (Shame on you!) then possibly the tuner should have some sort of RF sensing capabilities, ala KPA500. I also envisage that the remote unit will have to rely on RF sensing alone, due to the possible distances involved between it and the transceiver / amplifier unless some type of data bus capability is installed that is capable of operating over the long distances (10 to 100 metres or more) that is also compatible with the K2/K3/KRC2 etc. Failing that maybe a serial interface could be used but that would mean that level convertors and logic decoders would have to be used at either end, thereby complicating things even more. (And not to mention, adding extra cost to the units) Whatever the good folk at Elecraft come up with I don't mind betting that it's gunna be awesome, just like the rest of their gear! :) 73 de Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF Elecraft K3 # 4257 + K144XV + KPA500 + PR6 = Fanbloodytasic performance! - Original Message - From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft To: Brendan Minish Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Why not just use two KRC2s? They are complete and shipping. :-) 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/13/2011 4:22 PM, Brendan Minish wrote: I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Good summary, Jeff. I'd like to also emphasize that there are a good number of us out here with deed restriction/covenant situations that have to use a single HF antenna (175' inverted L here) with an external, outdoor tuner. We are all waiting for an external option or version of the KAT-500. In my case, I currently use the SGC-230 which limits me to about 60 watts cw, and 200 watts SSB. There's no reason for me to purchase the KPA-500 until I can replace the low power external tuner with something capable of 500+ watts. I'll continue to patiently wait. My KX-1, K3, and P3 are wonderful. I'm sure the KAT-500 will also be worth the wait. Oscar, WB5GCX On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF vk4bof.elecr...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I think that we need a reality check here people. Let's face it, what we 'want' and what we 'need' are two sometimes vastly different things __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Want's ALWAYS exceed the Need...:-) Gary On 14 July 2011 13:10, Oscar Staudt wb5...@gmail.com wrote: Good summary, Jeff. I'd like to also emphasize that there are a good number of us out here with deed restriction/covenant situations that have to use a single HF antenna (175' inverted L here) with an external, outdoor tuner. We are all waiting for an external option or version of the KAT-500. In my case, I currently use the SGC-230 which limits me to about 60 watts cw, and 200 watts SSB. There's no reason for me to purchase the KPA-500 until I can replace the low power external tuner with something capable of 500+ watts. I'll continue to patiently wait. My KX-1, K3, and P3 are wonderful. I'm sure the KAT-500 will also be worth the wait. Oscar, WB5GCX On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF vk4bof.elecr...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I think that we need a reality check here people. Let's face it, what we 'want' and what we 'need' are two sometimes vastly different things __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Suppose you really wanted to decide the best design strategy for a maker of antenna tuners. You might think as follows: All potential buyers have at least one antenna. Some have two, some three, etc. As you add more outputs on the back of the tuner, you increase potential sales, but you also increase costs. Note importantly that adding, for example, a third output increases the cost of units sold to hams who have only one or two antennas. Therefore, adding outputs may add some customers among hams with many antennas, but will also lose some sales to hams who don't want to pay for unused outputs. Moreover, adding outputs lowers profit margin. The number of units sold is some function of this increment to unit cost. And of course, total revenues is unit cost * number of units. The problem is to optimize profit: quantity * (price - unit cost). Recalling that quantity depends in part on unit cost, we can write this out and differentiate with respect to the cost of the added outputs. The point at which that derivative = 0 is the optimum amount to spend on extra outputs. In order to do this exercise with real numbers, one would have to have some idea of the elasticity of demand with respect to price, a number that may not necessarily be easy to pin down. Nonetheless, the point is to provide a better framework for decision-making. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I am so confused now I will just stick with the manual tuner with 3 antenna ports. Gary On 14 July 2011 13:46, Tony Estep estept...@gmail.com wrote: Suppose you really wanted to decide the best design strategy for a maker of antenna tuners. You might think as follows: All potential buyers have at least one antenna. Some have two, some three, etc. As you add more outputs on the back of the tuner, you increase potential sales, but you also increase costs. Note importantly that adding, for example, a third output increases the cost of units sold to hams who have only one or two antennas. Therefore, adding outputs may add some customers among hams with many antennas, but will also lose some sales to hams who don't want to pay for unused outputs. Moreover, adding outputs lowers profit margin. The number of units sold is some function of this increment to unit cost. And of course, total revenues is unit cost * number of units. The problem is to optimize profit: quantity * (price - unit cost). Recalling that quantity depends in part on unit cost, we can write this out and differentiate with respect to the cost of the added outputs. The point at which that derivative = 0 is the optimum amount to spend on extra outputs. In order to do this exercise with real numbers, one would have to have some idea of the elasticity of demand with respect to price, a number that may not necessarily be easy to pin down. Nonetheless, the point is to provide a better framework for decision-making. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
, thereby complicating things even more. (And not to mention, adding extra cost to the units) Whatever the good folk at Elecraft come up with I don't mind betting that it's gunna be awesome, just like the rest of their gear! :) 73 de Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF Elecraft K3 # 4257 + K144XV + KPA500 + PR6 = Fanbloodytasic performance! - Original Message - From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft To: Brendan Minish Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Why not just use two KRC2s? They are complete and shipping. :-) 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/13/2011 4:22 PM, Brendan Minish wrote: I think that 2 Antenna ports on the KAT500 is a good fit, after all 2 ports is what the K3 (+ATU) has so many of us have configured our stations to work with this configuration I would suggest however that there be an (optional?) module (s) for the KAT500 that provides for sink or source outputs, one per band (plus a few more?) that can be further configured via software to to clever things (like selecting 2 different antennas for 80/75m, or multiple bands on one antenna ) It would be even nicer if this was duplicated for the second antenna output either in the same module or as a second user installable module. These would be driven by the auxbus data that will presumably be fed to the KANT500 and decoded by it's CPU anyway. An input (per antenna port) that can be used to indicate to the KAT500 that the requested antenna is not available might also be a good idea so that the KRC500 can then select the second choice on the other port (complete with recalling the last used tunings for the secondary ) would also be nice. Think of this as the functionality of (2x ?) KRC2's built in and it would make for superb versatility since the KRC500 could then be configured to automate pretty much any external automatic antenna switching arrangement. I don't know if this is practical to fit into the box but it sure would be nice. The KRC2 may already form the basis for much of the required circuitry/firmware. The Sink/source outputs could be selected sink/source by internal jumper and the output could be on DB15 or DIN connectors to minimise rear panel real estate. (perhaps with pre-made breakout cable supplied ) Another option might be to have the 'Glue' internal to the KPA500 and the Sink/source drivers in a 'dongle' to conserve internal space and provide for easier breakout. 73 Brendan EI6IZ On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 15:34 -0700, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman
[Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent from my $@!? iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Eric gliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent from my $@!? iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
The other thing that seems to be missing. The K3 ought to be switching the antenna switchbox, not the computer or some other device. The reason is obvious, the proper antenna will always be connected quickly. The same cannot be said for other approaches. I used to use computer switching with a transceiver that had no BCD output via a logging program. Pouncing on a spot and transmitting often resulted in the wrong antenna still being attached and then hot switching of the correct on in line. Not nice with an amp attached. If some other slower device has to be used, some kind of inhibit signal should be applied to the K3 until switching or switching + tuning is complete. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 7/12/2011 15:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3760 - Release Date: 07/12/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I was under the impression that the KAT500's form factor was P3 size. Since I already have antenna switching the way it needs to be with still about 30% growth built in, I would prefer the tuner be small enough to stack onto my P3. I doubt that could happen if it included a high power RF routing system. George AI4VZ -Original Message- . . . . better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator . . . __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
The other thing that seems to be missing. The K3 ought to be switching the antenna switchbox, not the computer or some other device. The reason is obvious, the proper antenna will always be connected quickly. The same cannot be said for other approaches. Take a look at the Ameritron RCS-12C controller (see the Reviews section at www.ad5x.com). This is very easy to program, handles up to 8 different antennas, and you can even program multiple antennas on each band (it remembers the last antenna used on each band). It reads the BCD data from the K3 (I documented a K3 cable in my review). Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent from my$@!? iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
It reads the BCD data from the K3 (I documented a K3 cable in my review). Of course it doesn't appear to work in parallel with the KPA-500 (both devices connected to the BCD data on the K3) according to early reports on one of the Elecraft lists. I suspect that's because of different voltage and logic levels ... Both the Elecraft KRC-2 and microHAM Station Master work just fine to control any of the commonly available remote antenna switches - with all modern radios and amplifiers. Station Master can even provide in band switching (switch taps on a vertical matching network or loaded yagi) and amplifier PTT delays for transceivers like some Icom models that drop PTT while still making RF. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America, LLC. http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM On 7/12/2011 11:29 AM, Phil Debbie Salas wrote: The other thing that seems to be missing. The K3 ought to be switching the antenna switchbox, not the computer or some other device. The reason is obvious, the proper antenna will always be connected quickly. The same cannot be said for other approaches. Take a look at the Ameritron RCS-12C controller (see the Reviews section at www.ad5x.com). This is very easy to program, handles up to 8 different antennas, and you can even program multiple antennas on each band (it remembers the last antenna used on each band). It reads the BCD data from the K3 (I documented a K3 cable in my review). Phil - AD5X __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hello Eric and others, Business is business. While KPA500+KAT500 should first look after the elecrafters, they should be designed in a way to attract other non-elecraft radio users. In the circumstances, 2 exciters input + some 2-3 antenna outputs in KAT500 should be attractive enough to many radio users. Or, I would say this requirement is simply basic and has already been available for other reputable linear amplifiers. If so unfortunate that KAT500 only has one RF input + one antenna output, I am afraid that I have to consider other alternatives. I can add whatever after market switches to provide the extra antenna selection. However, it is just simply not convenient and another mess of cabling around the shack. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Eric Tichansky NO3M n...@no3m.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年07月13日 (週三) 12:04 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent from my$@!? iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
It's been said that the KPA500 might be either desktop or remote. If this is the case, I would suppose a similar, add-on antenna switch could be offered. 73, Dick - KA5KKT _ The other thing that seems to be missing. The K3 ought to be switching the antenna switchbox, not the computer or some other device. The reason is obvious, the proper antenna will always be connected quickly. The same cannot be said for other approaches. I used to use computer switching with a transceiver that had no BCD output via a logging program. Pouncing on a spot and transmitting often resulted in the wrong antenna still being attached and then hot switching of the correct on in line. Not nice with an amp attached. If some other slower device has to be used, some kind of inhibit signal should be applied to the K3 until switching or switching + tuning is complete. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Every time this comes up everyone seems to forget about the KRC2, it speaks auxbus leaving the BCD outputs available for other things and is a very flexible device It does need 6m support to be properly sorted out but other than that it does a superb job of controlling just about any remote antenna switch you can come up with. On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 12:30 -0400, Edward Dickinson III wrote: It's been said that the KPA500 might be either desktop or remote. If this is the case, I would suppose a similar, add-on antenna switch could be offered. 73, Dick - KA5KKT _ The other thing that seems to be missing. The K3 ought to be switching the antenna switchbox, not the computer or some other device. The reason is obvious, the proper antenna will always be connected quickly. The same cannot be said for other approaches. I used to use computer switching with a transceiver that had no BCD output via a logging program. Pouncing on a spot and transmitting often resulted in the wrong antenna still being attached and then hot switching of the correct on in line. Not nice with an amp attached. If some other slower device has to be used, some kind of inhibit signal should be applied to the K3 until switching or switching + tuning is complete. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
IMHO it is a pity that the KPA500 does not have two output ports (well isolated), one to connect to an antenna, or a remote ATU, and /or antenna selector switches - the second output port to connect to a dummy load. I have been considering various linears capable of 500W - 1KW for use in the not too distant future. Over the years I have found it very useful to be able to switch on the fly the output of a linear (and of an exciter) to a dummy load as a check should some gremlin appear during the heat of battle. 73, Geoff GM4ESD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
The KAT500 as designed currently has two antenna outputs. The second one can be configured as balanced or unbalanced. More as we get closer to release. 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 9:24 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hello Eric and others, Business is business. While KPA500+KAT500 should first look after the elecrafters, they should be designed in a way to attract other non-elecraft radio users. In the circumstances, 2 exciters input + some 2-3 antenna outputs in KAT500 should be attractive enough to many radio users. Or, I would say this requirement is simply basic and has already been available for other reputable linear amplifiers. If so unfortunate that KAT500 only has one RF input + one antenna output, I am afraid that I have to consider other alternatives. I can add whatever after market switches to provide the extra antenna selection. However, it is just simply not convenient and another mess of cabling around the shack. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Eric Tichansky NO3Mn...@no3m.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年07月13日 (週三) 12:04 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent from my$@!? iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Well I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas. Reading Eric's response it appears as though the KAT-500 will NOT do the job for me and I have wasted 6 months waiting time. I was lead to believe the KAT-500 would have 3 antenna outputs minimum. I guess not everyone is in the loop. Gary On 13 July 2011 04:31, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.comwrote: The KAT500 as designed currently has two antenna outputs. The second one can be configured as balanced or unbalanced. More as we get closer to release. 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 9:24 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hello Eric and others, Business is business. While KPA500+KAT500 should first look after the elecrafters, they should be designed in a way to attract other non-elecraft radio users. In the circumstances, 2 exciters input + some 2-3 antenna outputs in KAT500 should be attractive enough to many radio users. Or, I would say this requirement is simply basic and has already been available for other reputable linear amplifiers. If so unfortunate that KAT500 only has one RF input + one antenna output, I am afraid that I have to consider other alternatives. I can add whatever after market switches to provide the extra antenna selection. However, it is just simply not convenient and another mess of cabling around the shack. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Eric Tichansky NO3Mn...@no3m.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年07月13日 (週三) 12:04 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do it repeatedly until something blows. Maybe multiple somethings. I'll have to rely on the KPA500 and K3 saving themselves. Not good. In my squandered pre-K3 life, i put key lockout relays and a sequencer for 2m EME in my system to make it failsafe and STILL blowed up the masthead preamp more times than I can count. In my opinion, the KAT500 needs two unbalanced outputs, bandmapped, for nice tight integration with the K3, to keep things as elegant as possible. I have no opinion on balanced output(s). No flames please. This is just my opinion--I could be wrong. 73 Eric WD6DBM K1, KX1, K2, K3, P3, XG3, all mini modules, Elecraft Kool-Aid I-V push STAT! KPA500 still a mere glimmer at Elecraft Sent
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
On 12/07/11 19:31, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: The KAT500 as designed currently has two antenna outputs. The second one can be configured as balanced or unbalanced. More as we get closer to release. Eric, I guess that your last line meant more _information_ as we get closer to release. Unfortunately there is a small degree of ambiguity. Some readers may be keen to interpret more as meaning more inputs/outputs. I hope the reality is that we all know what you meant :-) Charles - M0BIN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Maybe I'm atypical, but I only need one, as I use a remote switch on my tower. The extra three on my Alpha 9500 are wasted for me. Jim N7US -Original Message- Well I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas. Reading Eric's response it appears as though the KAT-500 will NOT do the job for me and I have wasted 6 months waiting time. I was lead to believe the KAT-500 would have 3 antenna outputs minimum. I guess not everyone is in the loop. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Jim, I am a portable station and use three antennas, a tri-band yagi, a double extended zepp and a low band wire antenna that can vary depending on my location. The KAT-500 in the remote version would have allowed me to mount it in the trailer and have the feedlines terminated there. I was told that the KAT-500 would handle 3 antennas, one of which could handle a balanced feedline that appears to be not the case. Whilst there are many options for remote antenna switching, I am portable so to continue to add extra hardware becomes prohibitive. The obvious solution for me is to look at hardware that will provide multiple antennas, auto-tuning and 400+W output. Gary On 13 July 2011 05:54, Jim McDonald j...@n7us.net wrote: Maybe I'm atypical, but I only need one, as I use a remote switch on my tower. The extra three on my Alpha 9500 are wasted for me. Jim N7US -Original Message- Well I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas. Reading Eric's response it appears as though the KAT-500 will NOT do the job for me and I have wasted 6 months waiting time. I was lead to believe the KAT-500 would have 3 antenna outputs minimum. I guess not everyone is in the loop. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I have four antennas but use a remote antenna switch at the tower. This allows me to have one 300' run of heliax into the shack. So I only need one antenna output at present. If you already have three or more coax runs coming into the shack, check out the antenna switch from Top Ten Devices or similar products from other manufacturers. They even offer a band decoder that will automatically switch to the correct antenna -- as do others. Dave, N4QS Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 05:49:28 To: e...@elecraft.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.netelecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Well I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas. Reading Eric's response it appears as though the KAT-500 will NOT do the job for me and I have wasted 6 months waiting time. I was lead to believe the KAT-500 would have 3 antenna outputs minimum. I guess not everyone is in the loop. Gary On 13 July 2011 04:31, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.comwrote: The KAT500 as designed currently has two antenna outputs. The second one can be configured as balanced or unbalanced. More as we get closer to release. 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 9:24 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hello Eric and others, Business is business. While KPA500+KAT500 should first look after the elecrafters, they should be designed in a way to attract other non-elecraft radio users. In the circumstances, 2 exciters input + some 2-3 antenna outputs in KAT500 should be attractive enough to many radio users. Or, I would say this requirement is simply basic and has already been available for other reputable linear amplifiers. If so unfortunate that KAT500 only has one RF input + one antenna output, I am afraid that I have to consider other alternatives. I can add whatever after market switches to provide the extra antenna selection. However, it is just simply not convenient and another mess of cabling around the shack. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Eric Tichansky NO3Mn...@no3m.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年07月13日 (週三) 12:04 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m, and the lack of a second output port on the KPA500 makes it difficult to manage the 6m capability of the K3 cleanly. The KRC2 will handle the band data, but does not have a compatible relay box, manual operation, or lights to tell you what it is doing. Right now my K3 sends HF to ANT1, that goes to an HF amp and to a TopTen band decoder and relay box. Six meters goes to ANT2 and a separate 6m amp and 6m antenna. This gives me fully auto bandswitching on HF and 6m, save for 60m where the TopTen decoder does not recognize as a valid address. With my already ordered KPA500 (selling both tube amps), I will have to manually switch 6m. I don't like this not because I am lazy, but the older I get the more stoopid I get and its just a matter of time before I tx into a near-infinite SWR. Knowing me, I'll do
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I've had a DX Engineering remote switch mounted on the tower that has operated without failure for over 5 years. One coax line into the shack to another switch that places the coax at the rig of choice. Easy and a pleasure to operate. Phil Philip LaMarche LaMarche Enterprises, Inc p...@lamarcheenterprises.com www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com 727-944-3226 727-937-8834 Fax 727-510-5038 Cell www.w9dvm.com K3 # 1605 KPA500 # 029 CCA 98-00827 CRA 1701 W9DVM -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of n...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 4:31 PM To: Gary Gregory; elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net; e...@elecraft.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports I have four antennas but use a remote antenna switch at the tower. This allows me to have one 300' run of heliax into the shack. So I only need one antenna output at present. If you already have three or more coax runs coming into the shack, check out the antenna switch from Top Ten Devices or similar products from other manufacturers. They even offer a band decoder that will automatically switch to the correct antenna -- as do others. Dave, N4QS Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 05:49:28 To: e...@elecraft.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.netelecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Well I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas. Reading Eric's response it appears as though the KAT-500 will NOT do the job for me and I have wasted 6 months waiting time. I was lead to believe the KAT-500 would have 3 antenna outputs minimum. I guess not everyone is in the loop. Gary On 13 July 2011 04:31, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.comwrote: The KAT500 as designed currently has two antenna outputs. The second one can be configured as balanced or unbalanced. More as we get closer to release. 73, Eric --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 9:24 AM, Johnny Siu wrote: Hello Eric and others, Business is business. While KPA500+KAT500 should first look after the elecrafters, they should be designed in a way to attract other non-elecraft radio users. In the circumstances, 2 exciters input + some 2-3 antenna outputs in KAT500 should be attractive enough to many radio users. Or, I would say this requirement is simply basic and has already been available for other reputable linear amplifiers. If so unfortunate that KAT500 only has one RF input + one antenna output, I am afraid that I have to consider other alternatives. I can add whatever after market switches to provide the extra antenna selection. However, it is just simply not convenient and another mess of cabling around the shack. TNX 73, Johnny VR2XMC 從︰ Eric Tichansky NO3Mn...@no3m.net 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 傳送日期︰ 2011年07月13日 (週三) 12:04 AM 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Another very reasonable switch for the kit builder: http://home.comcast.net/~kk1l/kk1l_2x6switch/ I trunk three of those from an old Sixpack for up to 18 antennas (still have 4 unused slots!) and they've worked flawlessly. Total cost of PCB, parts, and LMB Heeger aluminum box was perhaps around $145. - eric NO3M On 07/12/11 11:01, WILLIS COOKE wrote: You know that Ameritron, Array Solutions and some others have remote antenna switches available at reasonable prices. Since these things take space, it is nice that they can be remote mounted, even outside in some cases. It seems a better solution to me than to add a kilobuck to the KPA500 price and make it the size of a small refrigerator when the requirements vary from person to person and the chance of pleasing more than a small portion of the users is small. I prefer the small box that is possible to take on a DXpedition or to Field Day and just endure the horrible pain of changing the coax when you change bands. The main thing that discourages me from buying an eight pack from Array is that I don't have enough antennas to keep it from being lonesome. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ericgliderboy1...@yahoo.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, July 12, 2011 4:57:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports Elecrafters, Hear My Plea: The K3 has two tx antenna ports available. It seems logical to me that the KPA500 would have two (output) as well. But it doesn't. I would like to see the KAT500 have two antenna ports (unbalanced) to make up for this. Running the 6m output to another coax makes sense--most (all?) band decoders and relay boxes don't handle 6m
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hi, One, two or three antenna outputs makes no difference to me either. I use an inexpensive 6-way MFJ switch remotely where the cables from my wire antennas come down in the woods behind the house and a single low-loss coax to the house. I currently use all 6 ports. The control is with a 100' CAT5 cable and a matvhing rotary switch also by MFJ. I don't mind the manual switching. Works for me and has at least 3 CNY winters on it. I am ooking forward to see the details on the KAT500. AB2TC - Knut Phil LaMarche-2 wrote: I've had a DX Engineering remote switch mounted on the tower that has operated without failure for over 5 years. One coax line into the shack to another switch that places the coax at the rig of choice. Easy and a pleasure to operate. Phil Philip LaMarche LaMarche Enterprises, Inc p...@lamarcheenterprises.com www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com snip -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA500-and-KAT500-Ports-tp6574422p6576933.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
I certainly understand the impracticality in terms of cost and size of designing the basic KAT500 with a large number of output ports. My personal wish is that an optional external Elecraft unit will eventually be available that will allow for port expansion based on the user's desire for number and configuration. It should be waterproof (or easily made so) and controlled by the same bus as the external KAT500. 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Let me chime in on this discussion with my opinions. Those who are already using remote antenna switches are happy with only one port on the KPA500, and two ports on the KAT500 will be more than sufficient. OTOH, those who do not use remote switches seem to want multiple (more than two) outputs from the KPA500 and/or the KAT500. While I can understand that, I already have a setup that works for me, a remote 6 way switch, and 3 HF coax runs into the shack, plus one for 6 meters, 2 meters and 432 MHz - total of 6 coax runs. Selection of which transceiver connects to which coax/antenna is manual, and if the K3 is not using the coax, it is available for the FT-847, and if neither is using a particular coax, it is available to a 3rd transceiver. So for my purposes, a single coax to any one of 3 transceivers is sufficient. Even the ANT2 connection on the KAT3 serves me no purpose, it is connected to a dummy load just in case I punch the wrong button. Dreaming of what could be in any one particular situation may be nice, but multiple RF outputs from any amp or tuner cloud my thinking. While it may be nice in some specific situations, it is not the ultimate for all. Those running multiple transceivers will have had their own antenna switching scheme worked out, and the need for multiple outputs from any one device evaporates. Now, how can I disable the ANT1/ANT2 selection from my K3? 73, Don W3FPR On 7/12/2011 5:39 PM, ab2tc wrote: Hi, One, two or three antenna outputs makes no difference to me either. I use an inexpensive 6-way MFJ switch remotely where the cables from my wire antennas come down in the woods behind the house and a single low-loss coax to the house. I currently use all 6 ports. The control is with a 100' CAT5 cable and a matvhing rotary switch also by MFJ. I don't mind the manual switching. Works for me and has at least 3 CNY winters on it. I am ooking forward to see the details on the KAT500. AB2TC - Knut __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Craig, A reasonable suggestion I think. I wonder why it is taking so long to get detail for the KAT-500? The surprise announcement of the KX3 and subsequent listing on the website including accessories etc appears to have overtaken somewhat the expected release of information on the KAT-500. It is ONLY an antenna tuner and it is not rocket science and there are several versions of these already available and so I question why we are not hearing more definitive information on the KAT-500 which I would have thought would be a priority after release of the KPA-500 as many of us wanted the auto-tuner as well as the amplifier but now it appears as though the tuner may have taken a back seat somewhat as more effort is placed into getting the KX3 into production. The KPA-500 is a great product and many of us have flogged it to death without any catastrophic failures and as we see more units being placed on air it seems like we should see the auto-tuner appear soon but alas no firm data has surfaced so the wait continues.:-( Being able to expand the antenna ports would be a great enhancement but I wonder how difficult that would be given we know so little about the KAT-500? We can always live in hope...:-) Gary On 13 July 2011 07:55, Craig Smith cr...@powersmith.net wrote: I certainly understand the impracticality in terms of cost and size of designing the basic KAT500 with a large number of output ports. My personal wish is that an optional external Elecraft unit will eventually be available that will allow for port expansion based on the user's desire for number and configuration. It should be waterproof (or easily made so) and controlled by the same bus as the external KAT500. 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hi Gary, We simply do not have umlimited staff and do not want to get ahead of ourselves by releasing details too early. We have a lot of projects in the fire. :-) The KAT500 is under active development right now, but putting more details at this time is premature. What I can say is that the first unit is a compact desktop ATU as I described in my earlier email. If a remote version comes out, it will be after this unit. 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com On 7/12/2011 3:14 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: Craig, A reasonable suggestion I think. I wonder why it is taking so long to get detail for the KAT-500? I certainly understand the impracticality in terms of cost and size of designing the basic KAT500 with a large number of output ports. My personal wish is that an optional external Elecraft unit will eventually be available that will allow for port expansion based on the user's desire for number and configuration. It should be waterproof (or easily made so) and controlled by the same bus as the external KAT500. 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
...I don't know too many hams with only two or less antennas... This is pure conjecture about an empirical question. This one could probably be settled with a bit of market research. A somewhat more thorny question is: how many hams who have a lot of antennas want the antenna switching done in the tuner, versus those who prefer a separate switching system? I dunno, but that's the sort of marketing/design/cost/benefit question that product design teams have to hash out. As with any tradeoff, somebody is not gonna like the final decision. The trick is to find the optimal point that satisfies the largest number -- not the largest number of kibitzers, the largest number of buyers. Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Eric, I for one would like to be able to switch up to 4 antennas via the K3 including at least one antenna port that will handle a single wire or ladder line termination. K3 ANT 1 would connect to the KPA-500 and then to the KAT-500 with ANT1 on the KAT-500 connected to a KRC2 AND antenna switch with 4 ports selected via the K3? ANT2 on the KAT-500 would control another 4 position antenna switch again, selected via the K3 ANT-2 on the K3 could be set up the same as above? Workable?dunno...above my pay grade...:-) But still waiting...:-( 73's Gary On 13 July 2011 08:14, Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com wrote: Craig, A reasonable suggestion I think. I wonder why it is taking so long to get detail for the KAT-500? The surprise announcement of the KX3 and subsequent listing on the website including accessories etc appears to have overtaken somewhat the expected release of information on the KAT-500. It is ONLY an antenna tuner and it is not rocket science and there are several versions of these already available and so I question why we are not hearing more definitive information on the KAT-500 which I would have thought would be a priority after release of the KPA-500 as many of us wanted the auto-tuner as well as the amplifier but now it appears as though the tuner may have taken a back seat somewhat as more effort is placed into getting the KX3 into production. The KPA-500 is a great product and many of us have flogged it to death without any catastrophic failures and as we see more units being placed on air it seems like we should see the auto-tuner appear soon but alas no firm data has surfaced so the wait continues.:-( Being able to expand the antenna ports would be a great enhancement but I wonder how difficult that would be given we know so little about the KAT-500? We can always live in hope...:-) Gary On 13 July 2011 07:55, Craig Smith cr...@powersmith.net wrote: I certainly understand the impracticality in terms of cost and size of designing the basic KAT500 with a large number of output ports. My personal wish is that an optional external Elecraft unit will eventually be available that will allow for port expansion based on the user's desire for number and configuration. It should be waterproof (or easily made so) and controlled by the same bus as the external KAT500. 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Hi Gary, Having 4-5 RG8 antenna cables, plus the input cable, hanging out the back of the desktop ATU is both likely to pull the ATU off the desk, and will easily not fit in the box size we are planning. It also adds a lot of complexity and cost to the basic ATU in order to accommodate more connections with the needed isolation etc. We certainly do not want to price the ATU out of the range of most hams, or make it too large. Many of us use manual or automatic switches external to the amp / tuner to provide these functions. A much better solution for those needing more than two auto-selected antennas is to use an external relay switch box, controlled by the radio. This has the advantage of getting the cables, clutter, and switching network off the desktop and either under the table or outside. There are certainly a number of external antenna switches out there that can do this, but if we offered something that was tightly integrated with the K3 (and KPA500/KAT500) as a product, what features would be desirable? (Number of antennas, rigs inputs, switching options etc.) 73, Eric WA6HHQ --- www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 and KAT500 Ports
Unbelievable thread - my delete key is smokin! MY station has a lot of antenna cables: 1) HF tribander 2) 80/40m dipole 3) 600m inverted-L 4) 30m sloper 5) 6m/10m J-Pole (remotely band switched) 6) 6m 3-elem yagi 7) 6m 6-elem yagi 8) 2m/70cm dual-band base whip (17-foot) 9) 435-MHz CP x-yagi (satellite) 10) 2m 7-elem yagi (satellite) 11) 2.4 GHz patch antenna (satellite) 12) 2m-eme array of four 10-element yagis with one Tx and two Rx coax lines 13) 900-MHz 33 loop-yagi - remote radio has only control cable 14) 1296-MHz 45 loop-yagi with separate Rx coax 15) 222-MHz dual 11-elem yagis Tx and Rx coax 16) 432-MHz 11-elem yagi Tx and Rx coax 17) 144 and 435 MHz Lindenblad omni CP antennas for satellite - separate coax lines 18) 16-foot dish with 1296 and 432 MHz feeds each with separate Tx and Rx coax lines I think I got all of them? Now I want the KAT-500 to tune 500-KHz to 1296-MHz and provide approx 25 antenna outputs to handle my station needs. Is this reasonable? duh? I either manually change coax lines to the radio equipment or use coax switches to accomplish this - I sure as heck don't expect the radios to provide it. BTW my K3/10 has ANT1, AUX, and the KXV3 ports which I think is pretty nice! Sure having ANT2 would be nice but I use external antenna tuners. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com == __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
