Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
Evangelists often do not read the fine print... Scott, N9AA On 6/30/14, 1:55 AM, K8JHR wrote: I am thinking Don did not catch the use of a bias Tee type DC injector in the story... JHR === On 6/30/2014 1:36 AM, Michael Eberle wrote: Anderson Power Poles on the antenna jack? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
I really was thinking of the main power connectors, but brain was sleep deprived after Field Day - However: On the power source to the Bias Tee - of course! If the bias tee was installed backwards in-line with the antenna, I would suggest that some thought be given to the gender of the connectors so it cannot be reversed. 73, Don W3FPR On 6/30/2014 1:36 AM, Michael Eberle wrote: Anderson Power Poles on the antenna jack? On 6/29/2014 11:19 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: 'Closing the barn door after the horse is gone' is not really helpful, but I would advocate the use of Anderson Power Pole connectors with fuses right at the power supply end of the power cord as prevention for the future. 73, Don W3FPR On 6/29/2014 11:23 PM, Mike Lewis wrote: Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
I did a similar thing with my TS-850. It smoked a lot of relays in the antenna tuner. I had them replaced, but have not powered it up since It was returned. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart On Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:24 PM, Mike Lewis mlewi...@gmail.com wrote: So about 20 minutes prior to starting another successful Field Day with my trusty K3 I powered it up for the first time after connecting everything had just started some tests when my buddy starting yelling that I was letting some of the magic smoke out of the radio. Sure enough, there was smoke coming out of the back of the radio. I dived over and pulled the power. To make a long story short, I was running an S9 31' vertical antenna base tuned with an SG-231 autotuner, with the auto tuner powered over the coax using DC blocks. The exact same config as I ran with last year with wonderful results. Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. After the incident I powered back up with my finger on the off switch to try to assess the level of damage. The radio puts out some power, but the SWR is infinite even into a dummy load. I am not sure of the status of the receiver input chain as I didn't want to put it back onto a real antenna. So I am just wondering before I open it up what kind of damage I might find and what kind of options I might have for repair. Has anyone heard of this sort of a bonehead mistake? Any ideas on what I might have fried? Given this is a mechanical assembly only kit is there any chance any of the parts are going to be user serviceable? I love the radio and I'm hoping it is at least salvageable. Thanks for any insights, Mike/KE0MF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
So brought the K3 in to work this morning to our lab area where we have static benches, blowers, wrist straps etc. and opened it up. Sure enough, the T4 transformer was pretty crispy looking. My boss who is also an avid ham (dream job setup :) ) then sprang into action. He removed the transformer, counted the turns, removed the old wire, found some new magnet wire of the proper gauge, rewound the toroid, and replaced both it and the straight through portion (which had gotten pretty hot from the proximity to the core.) Prior to stripping the burned turns off of T4 we looked at it under a microscope and saw that the windings had burned open in one place, effectively acting as a fuse of sorts. There didn't seem tpo be any other parts, connectors, or board traces that looked to have been stressed. I brought the radio home and hooked it up to a dummy load and a reasonably accurate external wattmeter. It seems to be fine, both on receive and transmit. I was hoping there was a built in SWR bridge cal procedure, but I didn't see anything like that in the manual. The SWR values reported though seem to match the LP-100A I am using externally pretty closely. I did try to follow the Wattmeter calibration and ran into some confusion on the procedure as written in the manual. I think I was able to puzzle it all out except for one item - how do you change the config menu item from CONFIG:WTMR LP to CONFIG:WTMR HP? It doesn't seem to change just by having the tune power changed to 50 watts, so I am at a loss on how to change it. So perhaps my K3 is now alright again, although I would appreciate any other comments on other things to check or calibrate. And thanks to all on the list who helped me out. After this the next project is to fuse the DC supply cables to my DC blocks with some rationally small value of fast blow fuse :) de Mike/KE0MF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Mike Lewis mlewi...@gmail.com wrote: My boss... then sprang into action. He removed the transformer, counted the turns, removed the old wire, found some new magnet wire. == Mike, you have the right job, or at least the right boss! Tony KT0NY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
I'd suggest to replace the toroid core, as the high temperatures to which it was subjected may have altered the characteristics of the material. 73, Matt VK2RQ On 1 Jul 2014, at 12:40 pm, Mike Lewis mlewi...@gmail.com wrote: So brought the K3 in to work this morning to our lab area where we have static benches, blowers, wrist straps etc. and opened it up. Sure enough, the T4 transformer was pretty crispy looking. My boss who is also an avid ham (dream job setup :) ) then sprang into action. He removed the transformer, counted the turns, removed the old wire, found some new magnet wire of the proper gauge, rewound the toroid, and replaced both it and the straight through portion (which had gotten pretty hot from the proximity to the core.) Prior to stripping the burned turns off of T4 we looked at it under a microscope and saw that the windings had burned open in one place, effectively acting as a fuse of sorts. There didn't seem tpo be any other parts, connectors, or board traces that looked to have been stressed. I brought the radio home and hooked it up to a dummy load and a reasonably accurate external wattmeter. It seems to be fine, both on receive and transmit. I was hoping there was a built in SWR bridge cal procedure, but I didn't see anything like that in the manual. The SWR values reported though seem to match the LP-100A I am using externally pretty closely. I did try to follow the Wattmeter calibration and ran into some confusion on the procedure as written in the manual. I think I was able to puzzle it all out except for one item - how do you change the config menu item from CONFIG:WTMR LP to CONFIG:WTMR HP? It doesn't seem to change just by having the tune power changed to 50 watts, so I am at a loss on how to change it. So perhaps my K3 is now alright again, although I would appreciate any other comments on other things to check or calibrate. And thanks to all on the list who helped me out. After this the next project is to fuse the DC supply cables to my DC blocks with some rationally small value of fast blow fuse :) de Mike/KE0MF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to matt.vk...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
On 6/30/2014 7:56 PM, Matt VK2RQ wrote: I'd suggest to replace the toroid core, as the high temperatures to which it was subjected may have altered the characteristics of the material. Ferrite materials have to get pretty hot for that to happen. My guess is that the thermal mass might be large enough that the wire fried before that point. It might be worth asking Elecraft, but I'd take the approach that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
Congrats Mike, Bob, N6CM On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On 6/30/2014 7:56 PM, Matt VK2RQ wrote: I'd suggest to replace the toroid core, as the high temperatures to which it was subjected may have altered the characteristics of the material. Ferrite materials have to get pretty hot for that to happen. My guess is that the thermal mass might be large enough that the wire fried before that point. It might be worth asking Elecraft, but I'd take the approach that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rfri...@usa.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch - An Update
On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 20:40:45 -0600, Mike Lewis wrote: He removed the transformer, counted the turns, removed the old wire, found some new magnet wire of the proper gauge, rewound the toroid, and replaced both it and the straight through portion (which had gotten pretty hot from the proximity to the core.) From experience, I can tell you that it is likely that the toroid was ruined by the heat. Once you heat it, the value changes, permanently, even if you replace the wire. I cooked a few in antenna tuners back in the 80s, before I learned the cause. I'd recommend you order a replacement (probably not expensive) and replace it at your earliest convenience. Also check with Elecraft about what other parts you should check. Be sure to tell them what happened, so they can accurately estimate what issues you could have caused. Gary - AG0N __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Ouch
So about 20 minutes prior to starting another successful Field Day with my trusty K3 I powered it up for the first time after connecting everything had just started some tests when my buddy starting yelling that I was letting some of the magic smoke out of the radio. Sure enough, there was smoke coming out of the back of the radio. I dived over and pulled the power. To make a long story short, I was running an S9 31' vertical antenna base tuned with an SG-231 autotuner, with the auto tuner powered over the coax using DC blocks. The exact same config as I ran with last year with wonderful results. Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. After the incident I powered back up with my finger on the off switch to try to assess the level of damage. The radio puts out some power, but the SWR is infinite even into a dummy load. I am not sure of the status of the receiver input chain as I didn't want to put it back onto a real antenna. So I am just wondering before I open it up what kind of damage I might find and what kind of options I might have for repair. Has anyone heard of this sort of a bonehead mistake? Any ideas on what I might have fried? Given this is a mechanical assembly only kit is there any chance any of the parts are going to be user serviceable? I love the radio and I'm hoping it is at least salvageable. Thanks for any insights, Mike/KE0MF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
Hi Mike, Probably just smoked T4, the voltage sampling transformer in the SWR bridge. That's probably a simple repair. 73, Bob, N6CM On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Mike Lewis mlewi...@gmail.com wrote: So about 20 minutes prior to starting another successful Field Day with my trusty K3 I powered it up for the first time after connecting everything had just started some tests when my buddy starting yelling that I was letting some of the magic smoke out of the radio. Sure enough, there was smoke coming out of the back of the radio. I dived over and pulled the power. To make a long story short, I was running an S9 31' vertical antenna base tuned with an SG-231 autotuner, with the auto tuner powered over the coax using DC blocks. The exact same config as I ran with last year with wonderful results. Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. After the incident I powered back up with my finger on the off switch to try to assess the level of damage. The radio puts out some power, but the SWR is infinite even into a dummy load. I am not sure of the status of the receiver input chain as I didn't want to put it back onto a real antenna. So I am just wondering before I open it up what kind of damage I might find and what kind of options I might have for repair. Has anyone heard of this sort of a bonehead mistake? Any ideas on what I might have fried? Given this is a mechanical assembly only kit is there any chance any of the parts are going to be user serviceable? I love the radio and I'm hoping it is at least salvageable. Thanks for any insights, Mike/KE0MF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rfri...@usa.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
Mike, I am sorry to hear that you had such an incident.Unfortunately, you may not be alone in your woes. Such events are not uncommon among Field Day reports. The basic K3 is protected by a series reverse protection diode, and should be OK. Unfortunately, there is not such protection for the KPA3 because the added 0.3 volts drop of a diode rated at 20 amps is not practical. I would expect that the damage is restricted to the KPA3, and may require replacement or major repair. Contact customer support at k3supp...@elecraft.com to review your repair options. There may also be damage to your SG-231 autotuner as well, but Elecraft customer support cannot help with that. Try the K3 working into a 50 ohm dummy load and see what the results might be. Elecraft can help with analysis of the damage for that part of your problem. 'Closing the barn door after the horse is gone' is not really helpful, but I would advocate the use of Anderson Power Pole connectors with fuses right at the power supply end of the power cord as prevention for the future. Properly constructed APP connectors are 'genderless' and can help prevent such incidents. I just returned from Field Day operation with 2 of my Elecraft rigs with no problems, but I use APP connectors on each piece of the 12 volt supply for all my gear. One gentleman at the Field Day site used one of my power supplies to power his Omni, but he did not use APP connectors in his system. I gave him the power supply (with APP connectors) and allowed him to change the connections to the power supply output at his own peril - fortuntely, there were no problems. In my system, the power supply is fused within inches of the power supply end (both the positive and negative leads with fuses rated for the wire size used in the cable - see AWG tables) and all the rest plug into a Rigrunner or other distribution box with fuses rated for each branch. The fuses should be sized for the smaller of the wire size in the power cable or for protection for the gear on the 'business end' of the power cable. I fuse #12 power cable to a 100 watt class transceiver at 25 amps. 73, Don W3FPR On 6/29/2014 11:23 PM, Mike Lewis wrote: So about 20 minutes prior to starting another successful Field Day with my trusty K3 I powered it up for the first time after connecting everything had just started some tests when my buddy starting yelling that I was letting some of the magic smoke out of the radio. Sure enough, there was smoke coming out of the back of the radio. I dived over and pulled the power. To make a long story short, I was running an S9 31' vertical antenna base tuned with an SG-231 autotuner, with the auto tuner powered over the coax using DC blocks. The exact same config as I ran with last year with wonderful results. Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. After the incident I powered back up with my finger on the off switch to try to assess the level of damage. The radio puts out some power, but the SWR is infinite even into a dummy load. I am not sure of the status of the receiver input chain as I didn't want to put it back onto a real antenna. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
Anderson Power Poles on the antenna jack? On 6/29/2014 11:19 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: 'Closing the barn door after the horse is gone' is not really helpful, but I would advocate the use of Anderson Power Pole connectors with fuses right at the power supply end of the power cord as prevention for the future. 73, Don W3FPR On 6/29/2014 11:23 PM, Mike Lewis wrote: Unfortunately this year in my excitement I carelessly installed the DC block at the radio end BACKWARDS, sending the 13.8v from my 30 switched supply right into the antenna jack. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ouch
I am thinking Don did not catch the use of a bias Tee type DC injector in the story... JHR === On 6/30/2014 1:36 AM, Michael Eberle wrote: Anderson Power Poles on the antenna jack? - - __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
