Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of

[Luis V. Romero]

Joe:

 

I fully understand the distinction. However, I see the very same waveform on
receive in the P3 today.  Why can't I see that waveform from my transmitter
on the P3?  Plus, the required RF sample and IF frequency data is being
delivered by the radio to the P3 for tuning right now, isn't it?

 

I had the desired functionality on my Heath station 35 years ago. When I saw
the "probe" hole in the P3 5 years ago I certainly expected similar
capability to what I was accustomed in the analog SB610 to be delivered in
the digital P3. However, expectation and reality of product features are
only my personal opinion and nothing more. 

 

As it is, I waited five years and spent $200 to replace a 17 inch piece of
wire.  I also cleared 12 inches of shelf space at my operating position by
removing the O'scope from it and returning it to the bench.  Theoretically,
I could even reclaim another three and a quarter inches by removing my Autek
WM1 and simply use TX-MON's built in wattmeter feature, sell the Autek and
recover more than half of the cost of TX-MON.  

 

I shouldn't have assumed that the SDR functionality within P3 would have
allowed both time and frequency domain displays of transmitted waveforms,
even though I can see time domain waveforms on receive in both SSB and RTTY
today.  When I want to see my transmitted waveform, I will just rig up a
serial switch to disconnect the serial port to P3 and view them that way at
a reduced level via IF bleed through.  Or just use my WinRadio SDR receiver
as a SA. 

 

Just seems silly to have to do all of that when I have a P3 just sitting
there...  

 

-lu - W4LT

 

PS:  I will just move on now with this thread.  No sense in beating a dead
horse.

 

You Wrote:

The displays generated by K0SM are frequency domain ... TX MON is

strictly a time domain (amplitude) display.  TX Mon uses a amplitude

detector driven by a directional coupler.  To do what you desire would

require an SDR tuned by frequency data (TX frequency) from the K3.

 

The difference between an envelope (diode) detector and a tracking SDR

is a couple of orders of magnitude in both cost and complexity.

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Plus, the required RF sample and IF frequency data is being
> delivered by the radio to the P3 for tuning right now, isn't it?

No, the RF sample in transmit is diode demodulated (TX Mon).


When I want to see my transmitted waveform, I will just rig up a
serial switch to disconnect the serial port to P3 and view them that

> way at a reduced level via IF bleed through.

The IF sample in transmit is potentially distorted transmit IF
signal *leakage* through other circuits that does not reflect
any contribution from the driver or KPA3.


I shouldn't have assumed that the SDR functionality within P3 would
have allowed both time and frequency domain displays of transmitted
waveforms, even though I can see time domain waveforms on receive in
both SSB andRTTY today.


The P3 specifications make it clear that one should not have expected
that.  Even if one were to add input switching to select between a
directional coupler sample in transmit and the IF in receive, the
frequency range of the P3 is limited to 21.7 MHz.  It could not cover
the entire 100 KHz to 54 MHz of the base K3 much less the 2 meter
transverter.


Or just use my WinRadio SDR receiver as a SA.


Yes, with a directional coupler and appropriate attenuator.  I have
done that with my SDR/IQ for MF and HF but the SDR/IQ does not cover
six meters.


Just seems silly to have to do all of that when I have a P3 just
sitting there...


It would be possible if the P3 had the frequency range but it doesn't.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/15/2015 10:58 AM, Luis V. Romero wrote:

Joe:



I fully understand the distinction. However, I see the very same waveform on
receive in the P3 today.  Why can't I see that waveform from my transmitter
on the P3?  Plus, the required RF sample and IF frequency data is being
delivered by the radio to the P3 for tuning right now, isn't it?



I had the desired functionality on my Heath station 35 years ago. When I saw
the "probe" hole in the P3 5 years ago I certainly expected similar
capability to what I was accustomed in the analog SB610 to be delivered in
the digital P3. However, expectation and reality of product features are
only my personal opinion and nothing more.



As it is, I waited five years and spent $200 to replace a 17 inch piece of
wire.  I also cleared 12 inches of shelf space at my operating position by
removing the O'scope from it and returning it to the bench.  Theoretically,
I could even reclaim another three and a quarter inches by removing my Autek
WM1 and simply use TX-MON's built in wattmeter feature, sell the Autek and
recover more than half of the cost of TX-MON.



I shouldn't have assumed that the SDR functionality within P3 would have
allowed both time and frequency domain displays of transmitted waveforms,
even though I can see time domain waveforms on receive in both SSB and RTTY
today.  When I want to see my transmitted waveform, I will just rig up a
serial switch to disconnect the serial port to P3 and view them that way at
a reduced level via IF bleed through.  Or just use my WinRadio SDR receiver
as a SA.



Just seems silly to have to do all of that when I have a P3 just sitting
there...



-lu - W4LT



PS:  I will just move on now with this thread.  No sense in beating a dead
horse.



You Wrote:

The displays generated by K0SM are frequency domain ... TX MON is

strictly a time domain (amplitude) display.  TX Mon uses a amplitude

detector driven by a directional coupler.  To do what you desire would

require an SDR tuned by frequency data (TX frequency) from the K3.



The difference between an envelope (diode) detector and a tracking SDR

is a couple of orders of magnitude in both cost and complexity.







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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 9/14/2015 2:55 PM, Luis V. Romero wrote:
>

However, I can't monitor other issues that can rear their ugly heads
in RTTY, be it modulated by FSK or AFSK with the existing
functionality available: The reason I was looking for a better visual
representation of these issues in this tool is explained in an
excellent article by Andy Flowers, K0SM.

>
> http://frontiernet.net/~aflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html

The displays generated by K0SM are frequency domain ... TX MON is
strictly a time domain (amplitude) display.  TX Mon uses a amplitude
detector driven by a directional coupler.  To do what you desire would
require an SDR tuned by frequency data (TX frequency) from the K3.

The difference between an envelope (diode) detector and a tracking SDR
is a couple of orders of magnitude in both cost and complexity.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/14/2015 2:55 PM, Luis V. Romero wrote:

Alan:



You wrote:

It gets more interesting if there is a problem

  in the RTTY transmitter that causes the two tones to come out at

  different amplitudes, which would be easy to see on the screen.



In your example, you would see ripple in the flat waveform on the screen,
true enough.  The Ripple would increase with the amount of the different
amplitudes of the two tones.



However, I can't monitor other issues that can rear their ugly heads in
RTTY, be it modulated by FSK or AFSK with the existing functionality
available:  The reason I was looking for a better visual representation of
these issues in this tool is explained in an excellent article by Andy
Flowers, K0SM.



http://frontiernet.net/~aflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html



Gee, it would be nice not to have to buy a Flex rig just to monitor my K3's
output. And I already have an SDR receiver sitting inside the P3 box, locked
to my transmitter frequency.



You wrote:

The traditional "plus sign" (crossed ellipses) display is normally used

  in the FSK receiving demodulator as a tuning aid.  As you tune the

  receiver the ellipses change their angle.  When you see the "plus sign"

  then the receiver is tuned correctly.



Not just for receive, but in transmit as well.  Especially in tone modulated
RTTY (pseudo FSK) using AFSK "tone" modulation.  If one tone is off, it
would be shown in the transmission ellipsoid representation as well.  When
you see a "plus sign", both tones are in phase and in quadrature.  But if
one tone is out of quadrature?  Then you see an ellipse.  We deal with this
daily in the representation of Trellis modulation artifacts in ATV
transmitters.  There we call it "The Eye Pattern". Same display principle.



While the dual ellipse waveform would be ideal, there are alternatives, In
receive, we can see similar information in the two tone demodulation
"envelope" showing two peaks with a valley in between using a single
envelope detector as described bu K0SM. Why not avail us of at least that
waveform, since you already can show it on receive in the P3
hardware/software?  With some handles on the display for gain, width, slope
and maybe a synthetic "mask", it solves this requirement!



You wrote:

You can also see if the transmitter has the wrong (or at least

  different) frequency shift.  In that case the ellipses don't make a

  right angle with each other even when the receiver is tuned correctly.



True and correct.  And I agree.



You wrote:

  That might be useful in a transmit monitor, but it can't be done using

   An RF coupler because it only detects the amplitude, not the frequency.



True: Not the *quadrature* (two ellipsoids) display. But you *can* show the
dual peak/valley display. You already show it on receive!  It is an
equivalent 2-D representation that can be used in addition to the flat
envelope display.  But, alas, I can't see it in transmit (yes, I could
unplug the control cable to see IF "bleedthrough", but what a pain!). The
way it is now, I can only tell folks I am receiving that they are having
problems.  I can't proactively solve my own problems before I transmit with
my monitoring tool!



I don't know. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm really disappointed to
have waited 5 years and paid $200 for this simple envelope sampler
functionality using a repurposed WM2 sampling bridge.  I sort of expected
more. Maybe not in hardware, but in the application software, as all
hardware for this type of measurement is synthesized in apps anymore.  For
$200 more I could have gotten a Wavenode WN-2, but then I have wasted the
wattmeter again and I would need another PC to run the app software.  But
the funniest thing is that the P3 can display an equivalent waveform today
in receive that does what I need for transmission monitoring!



I'm still no better off and $200 poorer than where I was with my Bench
Oscilloscope and a 17 inch piece of hook up wire, and that is the issue.
It's the first time I have been disappointed by an Elecraft product.





Lu - W4LT





__

Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Luis V. Romero]

Alan:

 

You wrote:

It gets more interesting if there is a problem 

 in the RTTY transmitter that causes the two tones to come out at 

 different amplitudes, which would be easy to see on the screen.

 

In your example, you would see ripple in the flat waveform on the screen,
true enough.  The Ripple would increase with the amount of the different
amplitudes of the two tones.

 

However, I can't monitor other issues that can rear their ugly heads in
RTTY, be it modulated by FSK or AFSK with the existing functionality
available:  The reason I was looking for a better visual representation of
these issues in this tool is explained in an excellent article by Andy
Flowers, K0SM.

 

http://frontiernet.net/~aflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html

 

Gee, it would be nice not to have to buy a Flex rig just to monitor my K3's
output. And I already have an SDR receiver sitting inside the P3 box, locked
to my transmitter frequency.   

 

You wrote:

The traditional "plus sign" (crossed ellipses) display is normally used 

 in the FSK receiving demodulator as a tuning aid.  As you tune the 

 receiver the ellipses change their angle.  When you see the "plus sign" 

 then the receiver is tuned correctly.

 

Not just for receive, but in transmit as well.  Especially in tone modulated
RTTY (pseudo FSK) using AFSK "tone" modulation.  If one tone is off, it
would be shown in the transmission ellipsoid representation as well.  When
you see a "plus sign", both tones are in phase and in quadrature.  But if
one tone is out of quadrature?  Then you see an ellipse.  We deal with this
daily in the representation of Trellis modulation artifacts in ATV
transmitters.  There we call it "The Eye Pattern". Same display principle. 

 

While the dual ellipse waveform would be ideal, there are alternatives, In
receive, we can see similar information in the two tone demodulation
"envelope" showing two peaks with a valley in between using a single
envelope detector as described bu K0SM. Why not avail us of at least that
waveform, since you already can show it on receive in the P3
hardware/software?  With some handles on the display for gain, width, slope
and maybe a synthetic "mask", it solves this requirement!

 

You wrote:

You can also see if the transmitter has the wrong (or at least 

 different) frequency shift.  In that case the ellipses don't make a 

 right angle with each other even when the receiver is tuned correctly. 

 

True and correct.  And I agree.

 

You wrote:

 That might be useful in a transmit monitor, but it can't be done using 

  An RF coupler because it only detects the amplitude, not the frequency.

 

True: Not the *quadrature* (two ellipsoids) display. But you *can* show the
dual peak/valley display. You already show it on receive!  It is an
equivalent 2-D representation that can be used in addition to the flat
envelope display.  But, alas, I can't see it in transmit (yes, I could
unplug the control cable to see IF "bleedthrough", but what a pain!). The
way it is now, I can only tell folks I am receiving that they are having
problems.  I can't proactively solve my own problems before I transmit with
my monitoring tool!

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'm really disappointed to
have waited 5 years and paid $200 for this simple envelope sampler
functionality using a repurposed WM2 sampling bridge.  I sort of expected
more. Maybe not in hardware, but in the application software, as all
hardware for this type of measurement is synthesized in apps anymore.  For
$200 more I could have gotten a Wavenode WN-2, but then I have wasted the
wattmeter again and I would need another PC to run the app software.  But
the funniest thing is that the P3 can display an equivalent waveform today
in receive that does what I need for transmission monitoring! 

 

I'm still no better off and $200 poorer than where I was with my Bench
Oscilloscope and a 17 inch piece of hook up wire, and that is the issue.
It's the first time I have been disappointed by an Elecraft product.  

 

 

Lu - W4LT

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of

[Luis V. Romero]

Grant:

 

I have a workaround:  My bench O'Scope and a 17 inch piece of hook up wire.
Been running that for five years.

 

The above does everything that the TX-MON option does.  Everything.

 

Frankly, I was expecting a little more in this product.  That's all.

 

Don't worry about me. I will be OK.  J

 

73

 

Lu - W4LT

 

 

 

But certainly it isn't necessary to wait around for Elecraft to provide.
There are all kinds of tried and true and well documented ways to do all of
the things.  

 

We've apparently come to the point where we expect our radio vendor to do
EVERYTHING for us, instead if just doing it for ourselves. Why does our
radio have to do all of it?  It isn't always just a few more lines of code,
after all. 

 

So E'craft doesn't provide a trapezoid or RTTY cross display or turn on the
coffee pot?  So?

 

Grant NQ5T

Just feeling contrary -- as usual ;)

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY

[KX3]

 Waveform
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
References: <001601d0ef1e$e360be90$aa223bb0$@ij.net>
From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" 
Message-ID: <55f71d19.1020...@coldrockshotbrooms.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:16:41 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/38.2.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <001601d0ef1e$e360be90$aa223bb0$@ij.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="060809070606000101030600"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--060809070606000101030600
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Interesting to note that none of the waveforms in the article cited are 
the traditional "plus" display.

The plus display comes from taking the mark filter and putting it on the 
"x" axis, and the space filter on "y" and looking at the picture.

Since the mark filter and space filter are in the demodulator, and as 
someone else observed really speak to how closely you're tuned to the 
received signal, that just doesn't seem useful.

The spectrum graphs might be.

73 -- Lynn

On 9/14/2015 11:55 AM, Luis V. Romero wrote:
> However, I can't monitor other issues that can rear their ugly heads in
> RTTY, be it modulated by FSK or AFSK with the existing functionality
> available:  The reason I was looking for a better visual representation of
> these issues in this tool is explained in an excellent article by Andy
> Flowers, K0SM.
>
>   
>
> http://frontiernet.net/~aflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html


--060809070606000101030600
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


  

  
  
Interesting to note that none of the
  waveforms in the article cited are the traditional "plus" display.
  
  The plus display comes from taking the mark filter and putting it
  on the "x" axis, and the space filter on "y" and looking at the
  picture.  
  
  Since the mark filter and space filter are in the demodulator, and
  as someone else observed really speak to how closely you're tuned
  to the received signal, that just doesn't seem useful.
  
  The spectrum graphs might be.
  
  73 -- Lynn
  
  On 9/14/2015 11:55 AM, Luis V. Romero wrote:


  However, I can't monitor other issues that can rear their 
ugly heads in
RTTY, be it modulated by FSK or AFSK with the existing functionality
available:  The reason I was looking for a better visual representation of
these issues in this tool is explained in an excellent article by Andy
Flowers, K0SM.

 

http://frontiernet.net/%7Eaflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html;>http://frontiernet.net/~aflowers/k3rtty/k3rtty.html


  


--060809070606000101030600--
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[Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Luis V. Romero]

Hello Elecraft folk:

 

Just installed my new P3 TX Monitor board that I ordered at Dayton (!). I
have been waiting for this capability for the P3 since 2010, so as to enable
me to monitor transmitter waveforms accurately like I did in my Heath
SB-401/SB303 station with the SB610 in ancient times (the late '70's).

 

So now my O'Scope can go back to the bench where it belongs. Since I already
had an accurate dual meter peak reading Wattmeter (Autek WM-1), the bundled
SWR/Wattmeter capability is not important to me.  A good, full featured
visual transmitted waveform monitor was what I was looking for.

 

However, a big feature is missing from the TX Monitor option:  Accurate
monitoring of the direct FSK signal for RTTY.  All that is visible on RTTY
transmissions is a solid envelope that fills the screen, just like sampling
RF using my bench 'scope.  

 

True, RTTY is a full carrier FM signal, so the display is showing me the
"correct" interpretation for an envelope sampler, but I was hoping to at
least see the same display we see on RTTY receive:  Two pulses with a valley
in between.  If both pulses are equal, there is no passband ripple.  If
there are single peaks and the fall to the valley is smooth and sinusoidal,
all is well and the transmitter is not being overdriven.

 

My preference, however, would be to see a traditional crossed ellipsis
display like on my old SB610 and the simulated one on software RTTY apps
(that are NOT real transmitted waveforms!), but I can live with the above.
Neither mode is available on the simple envelope sampler add on that
comprises the TX Monitor today.

 

I don't use AM here, but the a "Trapezoid" display would also be helpful to
set amplifier linearity and peak modulation.

 

These features would make a P3 with the TX Mon option a real, full featured,
transmission monitor, which was my assumption that it was to be. Right now,
it's a simple envelope sampler which, while helpful (and cute to show off to
guests), doesn't do what a true full featured transmission monitoring tool
*should* do, especially for RTTY and AM, and especially for its price. I can
do most of what it does with a chunk of wire and any o'scope.

 

Am I out of line with my expectation?  Are these features in the works for a
future software update?  If not, they should be!

 

Lu Romero - W4LT

K-Line

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Alan]

Hi Luis,

As you mentioned, monitoring the amplitude of a properly-functioning 
RTTY transmitter is not very interesting.  Since FSK is a 
constant-amplitude modulation mode, all you see is a constant-amplitude 
envelope on the screen.  It gets more interesting if there is a problem 
in the RTTY transmitter that causes the two tones to come out at 
different amplitudes, which would be easy to see on the screen.


The traditional "plus sign" (crossed ellipses) display is normally used 
in the FSK receiving demodulator as a tuning aid.  As you tune the 
receiver the ellipses change their angle.  When you see the "plus sign" 
then the receiver is tuned correctly.


You can also see if the transmitter has the wrong (or at least 
different) frequency shift.  In that case the ellipses don't make a 
right angle with each other even when the receiver is tuned correctly. 
That might be useful in a transmit monitor, but it can't be done using 
an RF coupler because it only detects the amplitude, not the frequency.


A "trapezoid" display would be interesting, but it requires two RF 
coupler/detectors, one at the input of the amplifier and one at the 
output.  Any non-linearity in the transmitter shows up as a 
non-linearity in the trapezoid.  An alternative that serves the same 
purpose is a "triangle" display, in which the RF signal ramps up and 
down from zero to PEP and back.  You feed the mic input of the SSB 
transmitter with a (say) 1500-Hz sine wave that is modulated with a 
(say) 100 Hz triangle.  The P3 TX monitor would then show any 
non-linearity in a manner similar to a trapezoid.


Alan N1AL


On 09/13/2015 01:29 PM, Luis V. Romero wrote:

Hello Elecraft folk:



Just installed my new P3 TX Monitor board that I ordered at Dayton (!). I
have been waiting for this capability for the P3 since 2010, so as to enable
me to monitor transmitter waveforms accurately like I did in my Heath
SB-401/SB303 station with the SB610 in ancient times (the late '70's).



So now my O'Scope can go back to the bench where it belongs. Since I already
had an accurate dual meter peak reading Wattmeter (Autek WM-1), the bundled
SWR/Wattmeter capability is not important to me.  A good, full featured
visual transmitted waveform monitor was what I was looking for.



However, a big feature is missing from the TX Monitor option:  Accurate
monitoring of the direct FSK signal for RTTY.  All that is visible on RTTY
transmissions is a solid envelope that fills the screen, just like sampling
RF using my bench 'scope.



True, RTTY is a full carrier FM signal, so the display is showing me the
"correct" interpretation for an envelope sampler, but I was hoping to at
least see the same display we see on RTTY receive:  Two pulses with a valley
in between.  If both pulses are equal, there is no passband ripple.  If
there are single peaks and the fall to the valley is smooth and sinusoidal,
all is well and the transmitter is not being overdriven.



My preference, however, would be to see a traditional crossed ellipsis
display like on my old SB610 and the simulated one on software RTTY apps
(that are NOT real transmitted waveforms!), but I can live with the above.
Neither mode is available on the simple envelope sampler add on that
comprises the TX Monitor today.



I don't use AM here, but the a "Trapezoid" display would also be helpful to
set amplifier linearity and peak modulation.



These features would make a P3 with the TX Mon option a real, full featured,
transmission monitor, which was my assumption that it was to be. Right now,
it's a simple envelope sampler which, while helpful (and cute to show off to
guests), doesn't do what a true full featured transmission monitoring tool
*should* do, especially for RTTY and AM, and especially for its price. I can
do most of what it does with a chunk of wire and any o'scope.



Am I out of line with my expectation?  Are these features in the works for a
future software update?  If not, they should be!



Lu Romero - W4LT

K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Al Gulseth]

Lu,

Without addressing what any hardware/software changes needed might entail, I'd 
say that you are _not_ "out of line with [your] expectation" Any request 
for features intended help the operator adjust his equipment for a cleaner 
transmitted signal is valid in my opinion. In fact, I tip my hat to you: one 
doesn't have to listen around very much to hear "crud" on the bands coming 
from ops who either don't know and/or don't care about how to adjust things 
properly, so by contrast it's refreshing to find someone who is concerned 
about his signal quality. (I'm sure there are many others on this list who 
also share your desire to strive for the cleanest signal possible.)

73, Al

On Sun September 13 2015 3:29:13 pm Luis V. Romero wrote:
> Hello Elecraft folk:
>
>
>
> Just installed my new P3 TX Monitor board that I ordered at Dayton (!). I
> have been waiting for this capability for the P3 since 2010, so as to
> enable me to monitor transmitter waveforms accurately like I did in my
> Heath SB-401/SB303 station with the SB610 in ancient times (the late
> '70's).
>
>
>
> So now my O'Scope can go back to the bench where it belongs. Since I
> already had an accurate dual meter peak reading Wattmeter (Autek WM-1), the
> bundled SWR/Wattmeter capability is not important to me.  A good, full
> featured visual transmitted waveform monitor was what I was looking for.
>
>
>
> However, a big feature is missing from the TX Monitor option:  Accurate
> monitoring of the direct FSK signal for RTTY.  All that is visible on RTTY
> transmissions is a solid envelope that fills the screen, just like sampling
> RF using my bench 'scope.
>
>
>
> True, RTTY is a full carrier FM signal, so the display is showing me the
> "correct" interpretation for an envelope sampler, but I was hoping to at
> least see the same display we see on RTTY receive:  Two pulses with a
> valley in between.  If both pulses are equal, there is no passband ripple. 
> If there are single peaks and the fall to the valley is smooth and
> sinusoidal, all is well and the transmitter is not being overdriven.
>
>
>
> My preference, however, would be to see a traditional crossed ellipsis
> display like on my old SB610 and the simulated one on software RTTY apps
> (that are NOT real transmitted waveforms!), but I can live with the above.
> Neither mode is available on the simple envelope sampler add on that
> comprises the TX Monitor today.
>
>
>
> I don't use AM here, but the a "Trapezoid" display would also be helpful to
> set amplifier linearity and peak modulation.
>
>
>
> These features would make a P3 with the TX Mon option a real, full
> featured, transmission monitor, which was my assumption that it was to be.
> Right now, it's a simple envelope sampler which, while helpful (and cute to
> show off to guests), doesn't do what a true full featured transmission
> monitoring tool *should* do, especially for RTTY and AM, and especially for
> its price. I can do most of what it does with a chunk of wire and any
> o'scope.
>
>
>
> Am I out of line with my expectation?  Are these features in the works for
> a future software update?  If not, they should be!
>
>
>
> Lu Romero - W4LT
>
> K-Line
>
>
>
>
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTYWaveform

[Gary]

Grant,

Your not the only one who thinks the same way you do.

Gary 

-Original Message-
From: "Grant Youngman" <n...@tx.rr.com>
Sent: ‎14/‎09/‎2015 2:15 PM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTYWaveform

But certainly it isn't necessary to wait around for Elecraft to provide. There 
are all kinds of tried and true and well documented ways to do all of the 
things.  

We've apparently come to the point where we expect our radio vendor to do 
EVERYTHING for us, instead if just doing it for ourselves. Why does our radio 
have to do all of it?  It isn't always just a few more lines of code, after 
all. 

So E'craft doesn't provide a trapezoid or RTTY cross display or turn on the 
coffee pot?  So?

Grant NQ5T
Just feeling contrary -- as usual ;)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2015, at 6:05 PM, Al Gulseth <wb5...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> 
> Lu,
> 
> Without addressing what any hardware/software changes needed might entail, 
> I'd 
> say that you are _not_ "out of line with [your] expectation" 
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Re: [Elecraft] P3 TX Mon: FEATURE REQUEST - Monitoring of RTTY Waveform

[Grant Youngman]

But certainly it isn't necessary to wait around for Elecraft to provide. There 
are all kinds of tried and true and well documented ways to do all of the 
things.  

We've apparently come to the point where we expect our radio vendor to do 
EVERYTHING for us, instead if just doing it for ourselves. Why does our radio 
have to do all of it?  It isn't always just a few more lines of code, after 
all. 

So E'craft doesn't provide a trapezoid or RTTY cross display or turn on the 
coffee pot?  So?

Grant NQ5T
Just feeling contrary -- as usual ;)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2015, at 6:05 PM, Al Gulseth  wrote:
> 
> Lu,
> 
> Without addressing what any hardware/software changes needed might entail, 
> I'd 
> say that you are _not_ "out of line with [your] expectation" 
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