Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Two comments – The idea behind the 10 year life batteries in sealed detectors is that the battery and the sensor element both need to be retired at the 10 year point. It is not a good idea to put new batteries in any detector at around the 10 year point as the sensor needs replacement, too. We had 20 year old Firex smoke detectors. Kidde acquired Firex and now makes replacements with 10 year lifetimes. They are not plug and play for 2 reasons. The Firex pigtail wired into the house does not mate with the Kidde detectors, and the plastic flange that mates to the electrical box is not compatible, either. Kidde sells a plug adapter that IMO is too bulky behind their detector to readily fit into the electrical box. So, plan to install a new mounting flange, remove the prior pigtail and install a new one. Of course you may find obstacles I did not and this only applies to the brands discussed. Bob R – N7WY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
We have a 2-step solution to this continuing issue: 1) Install 10 year lithium ion batteries as Kent recommends, and 2) Remove kids. All of them. Done. 73 Lyn, W0LEN EE (Experienced Empty-nester) -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of K9ZTV Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 4:49 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors For what it’s worth, the American Red Cross is recommending installation of units that have 10-year lithium ion batteries which are sealed and not replaceable. History has shown that kids tend to remove the batteries for their toys and games. They also say the test button tests only the battery, not the combustion-products detection circuitry. The circuitry in the older units (with replaceable batteries) proved to be effective only for five years. Any detector older than five years should be thrown away and replaced with the new 10-year design. 73, Kent K9ZTV > On Oct 30, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > The ones we have are stand-alone, running on a standard replaceable battery. > > 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
I second the motion to replace ALL the older smoke detectors, not only in YOUR home BUT IN YOUR CHILDREN’S HOMES! My daughters husband is not that bright and I replaced all their smoke detectors and monitor them when we visit. They live in a 112 year old run down mansion (fire trap) with kids spread all over. The new Kidde ones are sealed and no one can mess with them (Thank God!) and good for 10 years. David J. Wilcox’s iPad > On Oct 30, 2020, at 5:52 PM, K9ZTV wrote: > > For what it’s worth, the American Red Cross is recommending installation of > units that have 10-year lithium ion batteries which are sealed and not > replaceable. History has shown that kids tend to remove the batteries for > their toys and games. > > They also say the test button tests only the battery, not the > combustion-products detection circuitry. The circuitry in the older units > (with replaceable batteries) proved to be effective only for five years. > > Any detector older than five years should be thrown away and replaced with > the new 10-year design. > > 73, > > Kent K9ZTV > >> On Oct 30, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >> >> The ones we have are stand-alone, running on a standard replaceable battery. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to djwilco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
On 10/30/2020 2:49 PM, K9ZTV wrote: > For what it’s worth, the American Red Cross is recommending > installation of units that have 10-year lithium ion batteries which > are sealed and not replaceable. History has shown that kids tend to > remove the batteries for their toys and games. The sealed batteries in the ones that we have are replaceable but the cells within them are not. Experience with the "10-year" batteries is that they start getting flaky at about 7-8 years, but the building management is very cooperative about replacing them when they start chirping. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
The smoke detectors we have here are wired into the security system - no replaceable batteries - except for one which is standalone in the bedroom and was required to be added by the inspector when we built the house even with the whole house system in place. No RFI problems observed. We do know the whole house detectors work - the security folks have called those times when we let the toast burn in the oven! I had to have one in the shop building moved because it was right over the workbench and would alarm any time I was doing fine power sanding - even though I had a dust collector running. Thanks for the info on the 10 year units. We have replaced the standalone one 3 times in 17 years, so we are about right on a 5 year replacement schedule. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/30/2020 5:49 PM, K9ZTV wrote: For what it’s worth, the American Red Cross is recommending installation of units that have 10-year lithium ion batteries which are sealed and not replaceable. History has shown that kids tend to remove the batteries for their toys and games. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
For what it’s worth, the American Red Cross is recommending installation of units that have 10-year lithium ion batteries which are sealed and not replaceable. History has shown that kids tend to remove the batteries for their toys and games. They also say the test button tests only the battery, not the combustion-products detection circuitry. The circuitry in the older units (with replaceable batteries) proved to be effective only for five years. Any detector older than five years should be thrown away and replaced with the new 10-year design. 73, Kent K9ZTV > On Oct 30, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > The ones we have are stand-alone, running on a standard replaceable battery. > > 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Exactly. Here in Folsom, Sacramento County, we are required to have wired smoke detectors AND battery powered carbon monoxide detectors. In fact, we had our roof replaced a few years ago and the building inspectors would not pass it unless those carbon monoxide detectors were installed. For backup we also installed battery powered smoke detectors in each room. 73, Jim / W6JHB > On Oct 30, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > It's important to understand that these safety codes are LOCAL -- usually by > state, but also by county and/or city. There are "guideline" codes, like the > National Electric Code, that are adopted by most local authorities, and those > guideline codes are updated every few years. Often the local code (which is > the Law) is years behind. > > California law DOES require smoke detectors. I don't know enough about the > law to know the limitations on type. The ones we have are stand-alone, > running on a standard replaceable battery. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > On 10/29/2020 7:14 PM, Hank wrote: >> We switched to wireless alarm connected, internal battery detectors due to >> the occasional RFI interference caused by running a little power on 80 >> meters. Our alarm company actually had some experience with RFI issues and >> made the recommendation. I installed them and have a calendar reminder to >> swap the batteries every fall when the time changes. >> Local fire code does not require detectors. Insurance folks give us a break >> on rates for having them - wired or otherwise here in Ga. >> Hank >> K4HYJ >>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >>> >>> Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed >>> electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the >>> frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior >>> wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they >>> operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching >>> power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly >>> create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. >>> >>> Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no >>> external wiring for minimum RFI. >>> >>> In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >>> On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide Sent from my iPhone >> On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via >> Elecraft wrote: > > Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment > that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. > > That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, > poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad > installation of an otherwise good) device. >>> >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to h...@optilink.us > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w6...@me.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
It's important to understand that these safety codes are LOCAL -- usually by state, but also by county and/or city. There are "guideline" codes, like the National Electric Code, that are adopted by most local authorities, and those guideline codes are updated every few years. Often the local code (which is the Law) is years behind. California law DOES require smoke detectors. I don't know enough about the law to know the limitations on type. The ones we have are stand-alone, running on a standard replaceable battery. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/29/2020 7:14 PM, Hank wrote: We switched to wireless alarm connected, internal battery detectors due to the occasional RFI interference caused by running a little power on 80 meters. Our alarm company actually had some experience with RFI issues and made the recommendation. I installed them and have a calendar reminder to swap the batteries every fall when the time changes. Local fire code does not require detectors. Insurance folks give us a break on rates for having them - wired or otherwise here in Ga. Hank K4HYJ On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote: Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no external wiring for minimum RFI. In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft wrote: Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad installation of an otherwise good) device. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to h...@optilink.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Every AHJ is different. Find out what yours says. Jim ab3cv On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 10:16 PM Hank via Elecraft wrote: > We switched to wireless alarm connected, internal battery detectors due to > the occasional RFI interference caused by running a little power on 80 > meters. Our alarm company actually had some experience with RFI issues and > made the recommendation. I installed them and have a calendar reminder to > swap the batteries every fall when the time changes. > > Local fire code does not require detectors. Insurance folks give us a > break on rates for having them - wired or otherwise here in Ga. > > Hank > K4HYJ > > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Jim Brown > wrote: > > > > Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed > electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the > frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior > wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they > operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching > power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly > create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. > > > > Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no > external wiring for minimum RFI. > > > > In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. > > > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > >> On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: > >> Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is > cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless > connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned > against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide > >> Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft< > elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of > equipment > >>> that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. > >>> > >>> That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, > >>> poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad > >>> installation of an otherwise good) device. > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to j...@jtmiller.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
We switched to wireless alarm connected, internal battery detectors due to the occasional RFI interference caused by running a little power on 80 meters. Our alarm company actually had some experience with RFI issues and made the recommendation. I installed them and have a calendar reminder to swap the batteries every fall when the time changes. Local fire code does not require detectors. Insurance folks give us a break on rates for having them - wired or otherwise here in Ga. Hank K4HYJ > On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed > electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the > frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior > wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they > operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching > power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly > create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. > > Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no > external wiring for minimum RFI. > > In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. > > 73, Jim K9YC > >> On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: >> Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is >> cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless >> connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned >> against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide >> Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft wrote: >>> >>> Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment >>> that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. >>> >>> That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, >>> poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad >>> installation of an otherwise good) device. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
I would also check with my insurance agent before making such a switch. 73, Lou KE1F On 10/29/2020 5:45 PM, Jim Miller wrote: Strongly suggest contacting county fire marshal before selecting wireless only detectors. You don’t want to violate code and have any insurance claim denied if these is an event. Jim ab3cv On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 5:38 PM Jim Brown wrote: Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no external wiring for minimum RFI. In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft< elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad installation of an otherwise good) device. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to j...@jtmiller.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to lmecs...@cfl.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Strongly suggest contacting county fire marshal before selecting wireless only detectors. You don’t want to violate code and have any insurance claim denied if these is an event. Jim ab3cv On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 5:38 PM Jim Brown wrote: > Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed > electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of > the frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no > exterior wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI > IF they operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a > switching power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost > certainly create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will > radiate it. > > Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no > external wiring for minimum RFI. > > In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: > > Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is > cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless > connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned > against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft< > elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > >> > >> Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment > >> that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. > >> > >> That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, > >> poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad > >> installation of an otherwise good) device. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to j...@jtmiller.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Most RFI to/from ham radio and "devices" is caused by poorly designed electronics using interconnected wiring as TX/RX antennas. Because of the frequencies on which they operate, WiFi-connected devices with no exterior wiring are inherently FAR less likely to create or receive RFI IF they operate on internal batteries. If running from the AC line or a switching power supply (wall wart, wall lump, etc.) the PSU will almost certainly create RFI noise and wiring both on the AC and DC side will radiate it. Bottom line -- choose stand-alone devices with internal batteries and no external wiring for minimum RFI. In your situation, I would try one of them before returning them. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/29/2020 12:57 PM, Harlan Sherriff via Elecraft wrote: Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft wrote: Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad installation of an otherwise good) device. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Dave, I totally agree. I am sure the “problem” the manufacturer is cautioning about is RF, since my original post was about “wireless connected” detectors. My gripe was nothing in the sales literature warned against it. Not till I bought the units and read the installation guide Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 29, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Dave B via Elecraft > wrote: > > Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment > that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. > > That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, > poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad > installation of an otherwise good) device. > > To do it right, costs money, so you can guess the rest. > > > Not just smoke detectors either. > > Dave G8KBV > > > >> On 28/10/2020 21:10, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: >> Radio waves are non-ionising radiation, so there is no fundamental >> reason why radio frequencies should trigger ionisation detectors. > > -- > Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open > source software: > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hsherr...@reagan.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Well, RF (AKA "Radio Waves") can falsely trigger all sorts of equipment that was not "designed" to work with, or be influenced by them. That is the classic EMC Susceptibility or Immunity problem. Basically, poor design and/or implementation of the affected (or sometimes bad installation of an otherwise good) device. To do it right, costs money, so you can guess the rest. Not just smoke detectors either. Dave G8KBV On 28/10/2020 21:10, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: > Radio waves are non-ionising radiation, so there is no fundamental > reason why radio frequencies should trigger ionisation detectors. -- Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software: __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Smoke Detectors
Radio waves are non-Ionizing. I hope we all know that and know one another know that. However the near field is an electrical field. The smoke detector compares the ionization between two chambers, both with the same radioactive source. One is exposed to the environment (smoke) and the other is not while both have the same radioactive source. An imbalance in the two chambers indicates smoke impeding ionizing radiation. It is triggered by a very small amount of smoke, barely visible to the eye. The means of detection is electronic and can be affected by a strong near field. Most of the smoke detectors I know of here in the US are the ion type. It may also be that other electronics in the detector are affected by the near field. That would be another theory but I think that affecting the detector itself is more likely. -73- W1GCF Geoff __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
Radio waves are non-ionising radiation, so there is no fundamental reason why radio frequencies should trigger ionisation detectors. Also, at least in Europe, ionisation detectors are no longer the preferred type. Optical detectors are the generally preferred type, and ones which combine heat and optical detection seem to be most favoured. Actually ionisation detectors alarm when the current reduces, so additional ionisation would probably de-sensitise, rather than trigger them. They include an alpha emitter to generate the ionisation, so are radioactive. The main advantage is that they are cheap. -- David Woolley On 25/10/2020 10:36, Geoffrey Feldman wrote: The reason to keep smoke detectors from Amateur Radios is that they detect smoke by ionization from a radioactive source. A strong near field will set them off. The good news is that this is your indication that all is not > right at the feed line (Or the antenna is unhealthy close). I have had this experience myself, fixed the feed line and the issue went away. That was with 100w on 80 meters. Unlike real smoke, the detector will stop complaining when the transmission stops. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
I had a battery-operated smoke detector that was set off by my transmissions. I totally wrapped it in aluminum foil and punched holes in the foil to match the openings in the plastic housing. No more trouble. Of course this wouldn't work with a WiFi unit. But in my experience, WiFi appliances have always been less affected by my HF and 144MHz signals than wired ones whose wires act as antennas. 73, Victor, 4X6GP Rehovot, Israel Formerly K2VCO CWops no. 5 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 25/10/2020 13:13, JP Douglas wrote: About 12 years ago we had a carbon monoxide detector in the upstairs hallway not far from the shack. Every time I was on a 2m net (could have been 6m, I forget...)the detector would start chirping, I even lowered power from 65 to 25 watts, same issue. Eventually the thing wouldn’t stop chirping at all so we threw it away, put a smoke detector in it’s place, got a 10 year carbon monoxide detector and put it in the guest bedroom which is further away from the shack and never had a problem again. 73 de Jose Douglas KB1TCD Mid Coast ME Sent from my iPad On Oct 25, 2020, at 6:36 AM, Geoffrey Feldman wrote: The reason to keep smoke detectors from Amateur Radios is that they detect smoke by ionization from a radioactive source. A strong near field will set them off. The good news is that this is your indication that all is not right at the feed line (Or the antenna is unhealthy close). I have had this experience myself, fixed the feed line and the issue went away. That was with 100w on 80 meters. Unlike real smoke, the detector will stop complaining when the transmission stops. -73- Geoff W1GCF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Smoke detectors
About 12 years ago we had a carbon monoxide detector in the upstairs hallway not far from the shack. Every time I was on a 2m net (could have been 6m, I forget...)the detector would start chirping, I even lowered power from 65 to 25 watts, same issue. Eventually the thing wouldn’t stop chirping at all so we threw it away, put a smoke detector in it’s place, got a 10 year carbon monoxide detector and put it in the guest bedroom which is further away from the shack and never had a problem again. 73 de Jose Douglas KB1TCD Mid Coast ME Sent from my iPad > On Oct 25, 2020, at 6:36 AM, Geoffrey Feldman wrote: > > The reason to keep smoke detectors from Amateur Radios is that they detect > smoke by ionization from a radioactive source. A strong near field will set > them off. The good news is that this is your indication that all is not > right at the feed line (Or the antenna is unhealthy close). I have had this > experience myself, fixed the feed line and the issue went away. That was > with 100w on 80 meters. Unlike real smoke, the detector will stop > complaining when the transmission stops. > -73- > Geoff W1GCF > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to kb1...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Smoke detectors
The reason to keep smoke detectors from Amateur Radios is that they detect smoke by ionization from a radioactive source. A strong near field will set them off. The good news is that this is your indication that all is not right at the feed line (Or the antenna is unhealthy close). I have had this experience myself, fixed the feed line and the issue went away. That was with 100w on 80 meters. Unlike real smoke, the detector will stop complaining when the transmission stops. -73- Geoff W1GCF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
