Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

This thread has already been closed. 

Eric
Moderator
elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 6S

> On Aug 22, 2018, at 4:38 PM,   wrote:
> 
> I assume the RPI is going to have some software that calculates and adjusts
> automatically on the fly for network latency from said NTP server. Oh by the
> way most all NTP servers get their time from an NIST time base...NOT GPS.
> 
> R. Kevin StoverAC0H
> 
> ARRL, FISTS, SKCC, NAQCC.
> "If it doesn't work the first time you push the button it won't work the
> 20th.Just stop."
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
> Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 12:38 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
> 
> I haven't checked the rules, but box with a low-power 60 KHz transmitter and
> something like a Raspberry Pi to get time via NTP and transmit WWVB-like
> signals over 100 feet or so might be a viable product.
> 
> 73 -- Lynn
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

This thread was closed several days ago. Please, -no- more posts on this. 

Eric
Moderator
elecraft.com
---
Sent from my iPhone 6S

> On Aug 22, 2018, at 4:30 PM,   wrote:
> 
> The GPS system is vulnerable. The systems at NIST aren't nearly as
> vulnerable.
> .
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[kstover]

I assume the RPI is going to have some software that calculates and adjusts
automatically on the fly for network latency from said NTP server. Oh by the
way most all NTP servers get their time from an NIST time base...NOT GPS.

R. Kevin StoverAC0H

ARRL, FISTS, SKCC, NAQCC.
"If it doesn't work the first time you push the button it won't work the
20th.Just stop."

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 12:38 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

I haven't checked the rules, but box with a low-power 60 KHz transmitter and
something like a Raspberry Pi to get time via NTP and transmit WWVB-like
signals over 100 feet or so might be a viable product.

73 -- Lynn
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[kstover]

The GPS system is vulnerable. The systems at NIST aren't nearly as
vulnerable.
GPS is a navigation system it is not a time keeping system. Every ballistic
missile this country still has uses INS not GPS. It's "jam proof".

R. Kevin StoverAC0H

ARRL, FISTS, SKCC, NAQCC.
"If it doesn't work the first time you push the button it won't work the
20th.Just stop."

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of John Harper
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
standard?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[W2xj]

Until someone takes out the GPS birds. It’s always good the have backup. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 20, 2018, at 8:32 AM, John Harper  wrote:
> 
> What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
> obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
> standard?
> 
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Phil Kane]

On 8/20/2018 8:50 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> The clocks I know about use WWVB (VLF), not WWV or WWVH (both HF).

IIRC at one time back in the dark ages of hamdom, Heathkit did sell a
clock kit that used either the 5 MHz or 10 MHz signal from WWV/WWVH.
One of the many that I never built.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Phil Kane]

On 8/20/2018 8:48 AM, Dale Chayes wrote:

> I think this is a significant mistake for at least two big picture
> reasons:

> 1)  There are still many devices (notably standalone clocks and
> watches) that set time from these signals, and

AFAIK the "self-setting" watches and clocks use the WWVB signal at 60
kHz ,not the HF signals from WWV/WWVH.

The downside is that for some reason the 60 kHz signal do not penetrate
the walls of my apartment or the noise level is so high or both so I
can't even take advantage of that.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks -
Thread closed.  Both OT and way over postiing number limits.

While an important topic, yhis is an policy discussion that is outside of 
Elecraft list guidelines for permitted topics. Please take it off list for 
further discussion in the interest of reducing list email overload for others.


In general, please do not post or discuss amateur radio policy, related general 
policy issues, or political issues on this list, as they can rapidly overload 
our list with a high volume of emails.


73,
Eric
Moderator etc.
/elecraft.com/

On 8/20/2018 10:58 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:

Except when it isn’t … you must have an exceptional internet provider.  It’s 
like much of the rest of the US communications infrastructure — subject to 
going dark at the worst possible time.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342


and the internet is like a band that's always open --

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Grant Youngman]

Except when it isn’t … you must have an exceptional internet provider.  It’s 
like much of the rest of the US communications infrastructure — subject to 
going dark at the worst possible time.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> and the internet is like a band that's always open -- 
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

I haven't checked the rules, but box with a low-power 60 KHz transmitter 
and something like a Raspberry Pi to get time via NTP and transmit 
WWVB-like signals over 100 feet or so might be a viable product.


73 -- Lynn
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[Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[John Harper]

And they (we) love it at their own cost, not the taxpayers.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
___

Yet there is an "installed base" of "legacy operators" who love CW.
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

One could make the same argument about CW: there are new modes that 
provide reliable communication well below the noise floor.


For that matter, HF is subject to propagation, and the internet is like 
a band that's always open -- and the data rates are higher.


Yet there is an "installed base" of "legacy operators" who love CW.

There is an installed base of devices that work wonderfully (atomic 
clocks) that will no longer keep accurate time unless they somehow hear JJY.


73 -- Lynn

P.S. no flames from CW ops -- I support your love for the mode and 
diversity in our hobby.


On 8/20/2018 8:32 AM, John Harper wrote:

What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
standard?

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Clay Autery]

I absolutely love my XG3 and have not even begun to exhaust the list of uses 
for it
Reference signal source is NOT on the list  I have had the priviledge of 
working with half a dozen XG3s at one time...
They are not even CLOSE to precision frequency references  often varying 
anywhere from 0 to 30Hz from the programmed frequency
Of course, that is NOT their purpose

On the other hand, using the 20 or yes, the 25 MHz signal from WWV, I can get 
sub 1Hz accuracy when zero beating my K3S.
I happen to be fortunate to own frequency counters, external references, et al 
instruments to get BOTH precise frequency, and AT LEAST equally important, 
precise TIME syncs
The VAST majority of filks do not
If you only have an XG3 then you fall in that vast majority too.
WWV is essential to national infrastructure.  When the grid goes down and the 
cell towers go dark  or the military flips the switch on the satellites, 
WWV should ALWAYS be there to keep the system running.
73,Clay, KY5G


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Charlie T  Date: 
8/20/18  11:45  (GMT-06:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: 
[Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure 
Yeah, I'd miss them, BUT, my little Elecraft hand-held XG3 sig gen is pretty
handy for that too .

Also, I don't believe funding for the 60kHz sig was ever at risk and THAT's
what your (antique) watch uses.

73, Charlie k3ICH




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:53 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

Personal note

Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at
multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals.

My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs
(remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether
you were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM
breakthrough). Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating
time-tones: minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe
into his sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it.

These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in the
field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When
propagation is good, even the 20.00 MHz signal soars across the aether,
a faithful and tireless chronological savant.

Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[donovanf]

Hi Charlie, 



This is an exact quote from page NIST-25 of the proposed FY2019 NIST budget: 
< www.osec.doc.gov/bmi/budget/FY19CBJ/NIST_and_NTIS_FY2019_President 
's_Budget_for_508_comp.pdf> 
"NIST will discontinue the dissemination of the U.S. time and frequency via the 
NIST radio stations in Hawaii and Ft. Collins, CO. These radio stations 
transmit signals that are used to synchronize consumer electronic products like 
wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches, and may be used in other 
applications like appliances, cameras, and irrigation controllers 
73 
Frank 
W3LPL 
- Original Message -

From: "Charlie T"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 4:45:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure 

Yeah, I'd miss them, BUT, my little Elecraft hand-held XG3 sig gen is pretty 
handy for that too . 

Also, I don't believe funding for the 60kHz sig was ever at risk and THAT's 
what your (antique) watch uses. 

73, Charlie k3ICH 




-Original Message- 
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:53 AM 
To: Elecraft Reflector  
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure 

Personal note 

Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at 
multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals. 

My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs 
(remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether 
you were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM 
breakthrough). Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating 
time-tones: minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe 
into his sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it. 

These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in the 
field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When 
propagation is good, even the 20.00 MHz signal soars across the aether, 
a faithful and tireless chronological savant. 

Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek. 

Wayne 
N6KR 


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Charlie T]

Yeah, I'd miss them, BUT, my little Elecraft hand-held XG3 sig gen is pretty
handy for that too .

Also, I don't believe funding for the 60kHz sig was ever at risk and THAT's
what your (antique) watch uses.

73, Charlie k3ICH




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:53 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

Personal note

Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at
multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals.

My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs
(remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether
you were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM
breakthrough). Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating
time-tones: minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe
into his sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it.

These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in the
field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When
propagation is good, even the 20.00 MHz signal soars across the aether,
a faithful and tireless chronological savant.

Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Wayne Burdick]

Personal note

Ever since I home-brewed my first receiver when I was 15, I've used WWV at 
multiple frequencies as a source of reliable on-air test signals.

My early receivers used simple direct-conversion schemes based on JFETs 
(remember the MPF102?). Get the details wrong, and you'd hear WWV whether you 
were tuned to it or not, thanks to what I now know was IP2 (AM breakthrough). 
Do it right, and you'd be rewarded with those undulating time-tones: 
minimalist, almost musical. Something Phillip Glass would pipe into his 
sensory-deprevation tank. Oh, and you could set your watch to it.

These days I still tune into WWV to check VFO calibration, set clocks in the 
field, and get an approximation of the MUF (Maximum usable frequency). When 
propagation is good, even the 20.00 MHz signal soars across the aether, a 
faithful and tireless chronological savant.

Losing it would be a tragedy, but a nerdy one, not Greek.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Walter Underwood]

The clocks I know about use WWVB (VLF), not WWV or WWVH (both HF).

WWVB transmits at 60 kHz with 70 kW.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 20, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Dr. William J. Schmidt  
> wrote:
> 
> Well let's start with all of those self-setting watches and wall clocks...
> and then the propagation information that is broadcast.  Does GPS do that?
> 
> 
> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ 
> 
> Owner - Operator
> Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
> Staunton, Illinois
> 
> Owner – Operator
> Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ
> Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
> Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
> Like us on Facebook! 
> 
> Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.
> 
> email:  b...@wjschmidt.com
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Harper
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM
> To: Elecraft list 
> Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
> 
> What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
> obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
> standard?
> 
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Dale Chayes]

> On Aug 20, 2018, at 11:32 , John Harper  wrote:
> 
> What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
> obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
> standard?


Here is (are?) my two cents: 

I think this is a significant mistake for at least two big picture reasons:

1)  There are still many devices (notably standalone clocks and watches) that 
set time from these signals, and

2)  it is the only global tool w/ have to maintain a reasonable approximation 
of “correct” time in the event of a GPS failure which _will_ happen some day 
(ref: Normal Accidents by Perrow- see below)

and one small-picture reason: 

they are a stable, reliable ways to check propagation and HF receiver system 
performance.  Nothing wrong with beacons, but these frequencies are easy to 
remember ;-)

Never mind for the nostalgic value.

With regard to #2, I was personally impacted by two failures during the 
experimental phase of GPS: 
- ground control uploaded ephemeris data with a “zero” for orbit altitude, all 
receivers that didn’t crash on math errors produced a position at the center of 
the ellipsoid, and
- the (very limited) constellation orbit inclinations were changed and our rise 
time predictions were so far off we did not find any satellites to track

To the best of my knowledge we haven’t seen any blunders of this scale since 
the system went into normal operation but eventually we be impacted by either a 
similar blunder or a successful hack. 

Normal Accidents, Living with High Risk Technologies by Charles Perrow, 1999 
(yeah, old but still true and the book is widely available.)
ISBN 9781400828494

-Dale KB1ZKD
> 
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[KI4D]

And it is a cheap backup for frequency and timing due to GPS lost or
scrambled due to military actions.

Don, KI4D

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dr. William J.
Schmidt
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:37 AM
To: 'Elecraft Reflector' 
Cc: 'John Harper' 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

Well let's start with all of those self-setting watches and wall clocks...
and then the propagation information that is broadcast.  Does GPS do that?


Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ 

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois

Owner – Operator
Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
Like us on Facebook! 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

email:  b...@wjschmidt.com



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Harper
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
standard?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[John Harper]

Yes.
https://www.qrp-labs.com/clockn.html
https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a20827055/advanced-gps-watches-for-runners/

and more.

Watches and clocks as "justification" for continued WWV broadcasts is
laughable.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com



On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 10:36 AM Dr. William J. Schmidt 
wrote:

> Well let's start with all of those self-setting watches and wall clocks...
> and then the propagation information that is broadcast.  Does GPS do that?
>
>
> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
>
> Owner - Operator
> Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
> Staunton, Illinois
>
> Owner – Operator
> Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ
> Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
> Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
> Like us on Facebook!
>
> Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.
>
> email:  b...@wjschmidt.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Harper
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM
> To: Elecraft list 
> Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
>
> What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
> obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
> standard?
>
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> __
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>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

Well let's start with all of those self-setting watches and wall clocks...
and then the propagation information that is broadcast.  Does GPS do that?


Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ 

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois

Owner – Operator
Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
Like us on Facebook! 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

email:  b...@wjschmidt.com



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Harper
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
standard?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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[Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[John Harper]

What is the justification for continued funding of WWV? Hasn't it been
obsoleted (if that's a verb) by GPS as far as being a time and freq
standard?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Go to change.org, search for “wwv”, and there is only one petition 

> that matches.

There is actually one petition on change.org and *two* petitions on 
whitehouse.gov right now.  Sign *ALL* of them:


 



 





73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-08-19 7:08 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

The software in this reflector is murdering this URL.

Go to change.org, search for “wwv”, and there is only one petition that matches.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Walter Underwood]

The software in this reflector is murdering this URL.

Go to change.org, search for “wwv”, and there is only one petition that matches.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 19, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> The reason why was the original post had 
> spaces in the URL. This is the corrected 
> URL and a tinyurl to click on. Send that 
> to your friend.
> 
> 
>  /maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh>
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/y9db9vs6
> 
> It is unfortunate the original link got 
> corrupted. Use these and you'll get there.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
> 
> 
>> Got this from a friend who tried to sign the petition:
>> 
>>>  The confirmation email came and when I clicked on the link ,it
>>> says 404 page not found.  I tried five times.
>>> 
>>> maybe that is why there are so few signatures?
>> 
>> Ray Kruse
>> 73  KK4WPB
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/19/2018 2:57 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>> More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly
>>> WWVB to have a major impact on world wide communication technology
>>> in many ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the
>>> reference for many of our atomic clocks?
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> -- 
>> Furthermore, I believe that islam must be destroyed.
>> If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have
>> peace.--Thomas Paine 73 KK4WPB Molon labe
>> 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Gary Smith]

The reason why was the original post had 
spaces in the URL. This is the corrected 
URL and a tinyurl to click on. Send that 
to your friend.




https://tinyurl.com/y9db9vs6

It is unfortunate the original link got 
corrupted. Use these and you'll get there.

73,

Gary
KA1J


> Got this from a friend who tried to sign the petition:
> 
> >  The confirmation email came and when I clicked on the link ,it
> > says 404 page not found.  I tried five times.
> >
> > maybe that is why there are so few signatures?
> 
> Ray Kruse
> 73  KK4WPB
> 
> 
> On 8/19/2018 2:57 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> > More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly
> > WWVB to have a major impact on world wide communication technology
> > in many ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the
> > reference for many of our atomic clocks?
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Bob, K4TAX
> 
> -- 
> Furthermore, I believe that islam must be destroyed.
> If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have
> peace.--Thomas Paine 73 KK4WPB Molon labe
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Courtney Judd]

me too, K4WI


rkr...@johngalt.biz 
Sunday, August 19, 2018 5:44 PM
Got this from a friend who tried to sign the petition:


  The confirmation email came and when I clicked on the link ,it says
404 page not found.  I tried five times.

maybe that is why there are so few signatures?


Ray Kruse
73  KK4WPB


On 8/19/2018 2:57 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly
WWVB to have a major impact on world wide communication technology in
many ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the
reference for many of our atomic clocks?

73

Bob, K4TAX



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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[rkruse]

Got this from a friend who tried to sign the petition:

>  The confirmation email came and when I clicked on the link ,it says
> 404 page not found.  I tried five times.
>
> maybe that is why there are so few signatures?

Ray Kruse
73  KK4WPB


On 8/19/2018 2:57 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly
> WWVB to have a major impact on world wide communication technology in
> many ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the
> reference for many of our atomic clocks?
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX

-- 
Furthermore, I believe that islam must be destroyed.
If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have 
peace.--Thomas Paine
73 KK4WPB
Molon labe

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Tom McCulloch]

Just a heads up, for people like me who don't always read everything.

When you to this site and click through they will send you an e-mail 
verifying that you are real...you MUST respond to that e-mail for your 
signature to me counted.



Looks like they are about 98,000 shy of the 100 K goal, but it's early.

Tom, WB2QDG

K2 #1103


On 8/19/2018 3:44 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
Pro-tip: include links in < and > -- most mail clients will not chop 
them in two:


 



On 8/19/2018 12:36 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/
maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh

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--

I'm happy to be anywhere -- Keith Richards

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

Pro-tip: include links in < and > -- most mail clients will not chop 
them in two:




On 8/19/2018 12:36 PM, Gary Smith wrote:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/
maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Gary Smith]

The link earlier provided was chopped up. 
This is the correct link:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/
maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh

And here is a tinyurl link to the same 
link

https://tinyurl.com/y9db9vs6

I signed it.

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[lmarion]

NIST went GPS long before I retired.The Cesium and Rubidium Clocks I 
calibrated  for Space Command had to degrade the accuracy requirements from 
10 to the -12  to 10 to -10 to accommodate GPS .  Made no real difference to 
the end users at the time.


Leroy AB7CE

-Original Message- 
From: Bob McGraw K4TAX

Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 12:57 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly WWVB
to have a major impact on world wide communication technology in many
ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the reference for
many of our atomic clocks?

73

Bob, K4TAX


The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST
<https://www.nist.gov/>) FY 2019 budget request includes shutting down
“NIST radio stations in Colorado and Hawaii” — in other words, WWV and
WWVH. Radio amateurs, HF listeners, and others around the world
routinely make use of the time and frequency standard signals, which
also include propagation information. NIST said eliminating funding
currently “supporting fundamental measurement dissemination” would
include putting WWV and WWVH off the air for a saving of $6.3
million. The NIST FY 2019 budget request for efforts related to
Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science and Measurement
Dissemination is $127 million, which, the agency said, is a net decrease
of $49 million from FY 2018 levels. The Administration's overall NIST
budget
<https://www.nist.gov/fy-2019-presidential-budget-request-summary/budget-tables> 
request

is more than $629 million.

“The proposed reductions will allow NIST to consolidate and focus on
narrower core [fundamental] measurement programs while meeting budget
levels,” the agency said in its FY 2019 budget summary
<https://www.nist.gov/director/fy-2019-presidential-budget-request-summary/fundamental-measurement-quantum-science-and>.
“NIST will focus on basic research while reducing funding for efforts
applying some of its breakthroughs into new measurement applications.

The FY 2019 proposed budget cuts developed earlier this year came to
light via Tom Witherspoon, K4SWL, who maintains The SWLing Post
<https://swling.com/> website, after a number of viewers called it to
his attention. He posted an article
<https://swling.com/blog/2018/08/nist-fy2019-budget-includes-request-to-shutdown-wwv-and-wwvh/> 
on

his blog.

“I’ve always considered WWV and WWVH to be the heartbeat of the
shortwaves here in North America — a constant, timely companion and
brilliant gauge of HF propagation,” Witherspoon wrote. I assumed both
stations would be some of the last to go silent on the shortwaves.”

NIST said other “illustrative” cuts in the FY 2019 budget include:

 * $3.5 million for Lab to Market, which seeks to accelerate technology
   transfer from federal laboratories
 * $6.6 million in environmental measurements projects across NIST
   laboratories, including work measuring the impact of aerosols on
   pollution and climate change, and gas reference materials used by
   industry to reduce costs of complying with regulations
 * $5.8 million eliminating the NIST Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Measurements
   program, including Urban Dome research grants to advance the direct
   measurement of GHG emissions on the scale of cities or regions.
 * $6.7 million in forensic science, reducing the program size to $7.3
   million by prioritizing measurement science in the NIST labs and
   eliminating program management functions and external grants for the
   Organization of Scientific Area Committees for Forensic Science and
   the Forensic Science Center of Excellence
 * $4.1 million in R targeting application of NIST quantum
   breakthroughs to applied measurement needs, including temperature
   and atmospheric gas metrology

“I find this budget request very disappointing,” Witherspoon said with
respect to the proposed elimination of WWV and WWVH. “Let’s hope,
somehow, this does not come to fruition.” He said The SWLing Post would
be tracking and posting any new developments.


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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[tomb18]

Need to get casio, citizen and seiko to make a fussmy watch will no longer 
work right


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: aj4tf  Date: 2018-08-19 
 3:18 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 
WWV/WWVH Closure 
Since the White House does not control appropriations, it is probably more
"appropriate" to contact your representative and senators than to sign a
White House petition that doesn't have much chance of getting addressed.

73,  David AJ4TF  (writing a letter to my Congress members)




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Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[aj4tf]

Since the White House does not control appropriations, it is probably more
"appropriate" to contact your representative and senators than to sign a
White House petition that doesn't have much chance of getting addressed.

73,  David AJ4TF  (writing a letter to my Congress members)




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[Elecraft] WWV WWVH Closure ...more info

[Tom Lizak]

Here is another link as it is on the 2019 President's Budget "hit list".
The link may be too long on this post so use copy/paste 

 

https://swling.com/blog/2018/08/nist-fy2019-budget-includes-request-to-shutd
own-wwv-and-wwvh/

 

73

Tom/K1TL...

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

More info on the topic.  I view the loss of WWV, WWVH and possibly WWVB 
to have a major impact on world wide communication technology in many 
ways.  If WWVB operation is suspended, where would be the reference for 
many of our atomic clocks?


73

Bob, K4TAX


The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST 
) FY 2019 budget request includes shutting down 
“NIST radio stations in Colorado and Hawaii” — in other words, WWV and 
WWVH. Radio amateurs, HF listeners, and others around the world 
routinely make use of the time and frequency standard signals, which 
also include propagation information. NIST said eliminating funding 
currently “supporting fundamental measurement dissemination” would 
include putting WWV and WWVH off the air for a saving of $6.3 
million. The NIST FY 2019 budget request for efforts related to 
Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science and Measurement 
Dissemination is $127 million, which, the agency said, is a net decrease 
of $49 million from FY 2018 levels. The Administration's overall NIST 
budget 
 request 
is more than $629 million.


“The proposed reductions will allow NIST to consolidate and focus on 
narrower core [fundamental] measurement programs while meeting budget 
levels,” the agency said in its FY 2019 budget summary 
. 
“NIST will focus on basic research while reducing funding for efforts 
applying some of its breakthroughs into new measurement applications.


The FY 2019 proposed budget cuts developed earlier this year came to 
light via Tom Witherspoon, K4SWL, who maintains The SWLing Post 
 website, after a number of viewers called it to 
his attention. He posted an article 
 on 
his blog.


“I’ve always considered WWV and WWVH to be the heartbeat of the 
shortwaves here in North America — a constant, timely companion and 
brilliant gauge of HF propagation,” Witherspoon wrote. I assumed both 
stations would be some of the last to go silent on the shortwaves.”


NIST said other “illustrative” cuts in the FY 2019 budget include:

 * $3.5 million for Lab to Market, which seeks to accelerate technology
   transfer from federal laboratories
 * $6.6 million in environmental measurements projects across NIST
   laboratories, including work measuring the impact of aerosols on
   pollution and climate change, and gas reference materials used by
   industry to reduce costs of complying with regulations
 * $5.8 million eliminating the NIST Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Measurements
   program, including Urban Dome research grants to advance the direct
   measurement of GHG emissions on the scale of cities or regions.
 * $6.7 million in forensic science, reducing the program size to $7.3
   million by prioritizing measurement science in the NIST labs and
   eliminating program management functions and external grants for the
   Organization of Scientific Area Committees for Forensic Science and
   the Forensic Science Center of Excellence
 * $4.1 million in R targeting application of NIST quantum
   breakthroughs to applied measurement needs, including temperature
   and atmospheric gas metrology

“I find this budget request very disappointing,” Witherspoon said with 
respect to the proposed elimination of WWV and WWVH. “Let’s hope, 
somehow, this does not come to fruition.” He said The SWLing Post would 
be tracking and posting any new developments.



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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Kevin Cozens]

On 2018-08-19 01:30 PM, Tom Lizak wrote:

They need 100K signatures by 15Sep2018...gonna be tough !


I was only the 1,011th person to sign.

We have already lost so many international broadcasters. If we lose WWV/WWVH 
we lose a lot more. They provided known very accurate frequencies, time 
information, propagation information, and marine weather. I'll still have 
CHU Canada for time but it isn't always heard as easily as WWV/WWVH.


Most of what I find left on shortwave is religious broadcasters and stations 
in Spanish.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Just copy and paste the entire link. I am in and counted. WWV possibly
closing! What a horrible thought! What are we going to do to check our
radios' calibration?

AB2TC - Knut


NK7Z wrote
> Mail wrapping cut off the end for you...
> 
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> 
> On 08/19/2018 11:08 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Error 404 on that link...
>> 
>> __
>> Clay Autery, KY5G
>> (318) 518-1389
>> 
> 





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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Mail wrapping cut off the end for you...

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist

On 08/19/2018 11:08 AM, Clay Autery wrote:

Error 404 on that link...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 19-Aug-18 12:30, Tom Lizak wrote:

This may not be the appropriate place for this but need to have amateur
radio ops read this as many rely on the "time standards" for our radios.


"NIST station WWV and sister stations are among the oldest radio 
stations in
the United States, having been in continuous operation since May 1920. 
The
station has transmitted the official US Time for nearly 100 years, and 
is an
instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from 
broadcasting
to scientific research and education. Additionally, these stations 
transmit

marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite
health reports, and specific information concerning current solar 
activity,
and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential 
resource
to the worldwide communications industry. This petition requests 
continued
funding of these stations be maintained into the 21st century and 
beyond to

ensure future operations."


They need 100K signatures by 15Sep2018...gonna be tough !


Here is a link to the petition if you wish to sign it:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv 


-wwvh


No flames, please !


73

Tom/K1TL...



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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Clay Autery]

Error 404 on that link...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 19-Aug-18 12:30, Tom Lizak wrote:

This may not be the appropriate place for this but need to have amateur
radio ops read this as many rely on the "time standards" for our radios.

  


"NIST station WWV and sister stations are among the oldest radio stations in
the United States, having been in continuous operation since May 1920. The
station has transmitted the official US Time for nearly 100 years, and is an
instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from broadcasting
to scientific research and education. Additionally, these stations transmit
marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite
health reports, and specific information concerning current solar activity,
and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential resource
to the worldwide communications industry. This petition requests continued
funding of these stations be maintained into the 21st century and beyond to
ensure future operations."

  


They need 100K signatures by 15Sep2018...gonna be tough !

  


Here is a link to the petition if you wish to sign it:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv
-wwvh

  


No flames, please !

  


73

Tom/K1TL...



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Re: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Michael Poteet]

By the way, I had to login directly to my gmail account in order for the
"Confirm your signature by clicking here" action to work.  I initially tried
from my Microsoft Outlook email client and the "Click Here" did not work.

MikeW5FTD


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-
> boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom Lizak
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 12:31
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure
> 
> This may not be the appropriate place for this but need to have amateur
> radio ops read this as many rely on the "time standards" for our radios.
> 
> 
> 
> "NIST station WWV and sister stations are among the oldest radio
> stations in
> the United States, having been in continuous operation since May 1920.
> The
> station has transmitted the official US Time for nearly 100 years, and
> is an
> instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from
> broaConform dcasting
> to scientific research and education. Additionally, these stations
> transmit
> marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite
> health reports, and specific information concerning current solar
> activity,
> and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential
> resource
> to the worldwide communications industry. This petition requests
> continued
> funding of these stations be maintained into the 21st century and beyond
> to
> ensure future operations."
> 
> 
> 
> They need 100K signatures by 15Sep2018...gonna be tough !
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the petition if you wish to sign it:
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-
> stations-wwv
> -wwvh
> 
> 
> 
> No flames, please !
> 
> 
> 
> 73
> 
> Tom/K1TL...
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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[Elecraft] WWV/WWVH Closure

[Tom Lizak]

This may not be the appropriate place for this but need to have amateur
radio ops read this as many rely on the "time standards" for our radios.

 

"NIST station WWV and sister stations are among the oldest radio stations in
the United States, having been in continuous operation since May 1920. The
station has transmitted the official US Time for nearly 100 years, and is an
instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from broadcasting
to scientific research and education. Additionally, these stations transmit
marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite
health reports, and specific information concerning current solar activity,
and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential resource
to the worldwide communications industry. This petition requests continued
funding of these stations be maintained into the 21st century and beyond to
ensure future operations."

 

They need 100K signatures by 15Sep2018...gonna be tough !

 

Here is a link to the petition if you wish to sign it:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv
-wwvh

 

No flames, please !

 

73

Tom/K1TL...

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