Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
It's a simple visit to ohms law. OR Just grab a "kill a watt" tester and look at your current draw. With a quick "in the head math" the 15 amp breaker will be fine. Remember the 30amp supply is at 13.8v not 117v ac the panel breaker is at. Again Ohms law. BTW : glad you asked the question rather than change breaker size. 73 Dean On Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 23:03 Michael Gillen via Elecraft < elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > Kind of a dumb question however here goes: > > I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 > to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice > I need to power that thing! > > I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A > continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. > > So my questions are: > > 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, > and in the future a P3 Panadaper? > > 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? > 30A? > > 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? > > > Thanks guys, > Michael > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to dean.k...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
On 6/14/2018 10:18 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote: When I added my KPA500 to my TS-590S station I found the drop in mains voltage unacceptable. I'd bet that was because of the IR drop in the long #14 wires feeding the outlet (and maybe other stuff running off that circuit). Yes, 240VAC is better, simply because it requires half the current, and thus half the IR drop. With this power distribution arrangement I run my KPA500 at 500 W output and PA voltage does not usually drop below 60 V. Remember that there's a three-position jumper that selects a transformer tap inside the amp to adjust for line voltage. Access it by removing the top cover, and RTFM to learn how to set it. Unplug from power, of course. The KPA will go into protect mode if the HV is too high when NOT transmitting (greater than about 82V) and too low when transmitting (less than about 55V), so the key is to watch that voltage after changing the jumper. We run two K3/KPA500 for 7QP and CQP county expeditions from two Yamaha 2000i generators, which are providing 120V. We're running about 40 ft of #10-3 from the generator to the outlet where the amps are plugged in, and typically get 500W from the amp. Team leader W6GJB bought a "strapping kit" to run the generators in parallel, and changed the breaker on the one feeding the station to 30A. We do this for the generators -- they're happier in parallel with keyed CW. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
John, I didn’t think you were suggesting changing breakers. The original post asked if he could change out breakers to a 20A or 30A breaker. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2018, at 1:39 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > >> On 6/14/2018 4:14 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: >> It should be fine to run the KPA500 at reduced power using your existing >> 15 amp outlet, unless you have a lot of other stuff plugged in. > > No power reduction is required -- let's do the simple math. The KPA draws > about 10A at 120v keydown. That 12v (probably 13.8V) supply shouldn't draw > much more than about 2A when the K3 is driving the KPA500, because the KPA > needs less than 30W to get to full power. The 13.8V supply should draw no > more than about 2A with the K3 barefoot at full power keydown. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hsherr...@reagan.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
On 6/14/2018 4:14 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: It should be fine to run the KPA500 at reduced power using your existing 15 amp outlet, unless you have a lot of other stuff plugged in. No power reduction is required -- let's do the simple math. The KPA draws about 10A at 120v keydown. That 12v (probably 13.8V) supply shouldn't draw much more than about 2A when the K3 is driving the KPA500, because the KPA needs less than 30W to get to full power. The 13.8V supply should draw no more than about 2A with the K3 barefoot at full power keydown. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
"Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in the future a P3 Panadaper?" When I added my KPA500 to my TS-590S station I found the drop in mains voltage unacceptable. I made some changes in power distribution and now have a web power switch connected directly to the 120 V outlet. That web power switch feeds the KPA500 directly and feeds the other station equipment via breakout strips. One port of the web switch has a permanently installed "kill-a-watt" monitor. The outlet I'm plugged into is just the other side of the house wall from the breaker panel. With this power distribution arrangement I run my KPA500 at 500 W output and PA voltage does not usually drop below 60 V. In a spot check on 20 m (the band at which my KPA500 efficiency seems to be worst) I saw 119.0 V with KPA500 standby and 113.4 V with key down 500 W RF output. The situation is a bit worse when the heat pump is running but doesn't seem to cause any operational problems. If I ever build a real station I'll include 240 V outlets. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
NO! The wire will get very hot, and you may burn down your house as a result. On 6/13/2018 8:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft wrote: 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
I did not suggest changing the breaker. I wrote either use what he has at reduced output or install at least one new dedicated circuit. John KK9A Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT 4G LTE smartphone. On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Harlan Sherriff wrote: > Michael, > Do NOT replace the breaker with a larger current breaker UNLESS the wiring > is rated for the extra current. > 15A = 14 gage wire > 20A = 12 gage wire > 30A = 10 gage wire > > Harlan > K4HES > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 14, 2018, at 7:14 AM, "j...@kk9a.com" wrote: > > > > It should be fine to run the KPA500 at reduced power using your existing > > 15 amp outlet, unless you have a lot of other stuff plugged in. You can > > always add a 240v outlet later. I ran a separate 20 amp 120v outlet > along > > with a new 240v outlet into the shack. Your 30 amp power supply is > > adequate for the K3S and P3. > > > > GL > > John KK9A > > > > > > Michael Gillen KK6RWK wrote: > > > > Kind of a dumb question however here goes: > > > > I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and > KAT500 > > to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much > > juice I need to power that thing! > > > > I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A > > continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. > > > > So my questions are: > > > > 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, > > and in the future a P3 Panadaper? > > > > 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? > 30A? > > > > 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? > > > > > > Thanks guys, > > Michael > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to hsherr...@reagan.com > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
Michael, Do NOT replace the breaker with a larger current breaker UNLESS the wiring is rated for the extra current. 15A = 14 gage wire 20A = 12 gage wire 30A = 10 gage wire Harlan K4HES Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 14, 2018, at 7:14 AM, "j...@kk9a.com" wrote: > > It should be fine to run the KPA500 at reduced power using your existing > 15 amp outlet, unless you have a lot of other stuff plugged in. You can > always add a 240v outlet later. I ran a separate 20 amp 120v outlet along > with a new 240v outlet into the shack. Your 30 amp power supply is > adequate for the K3S and P3. > > GL > John KK9A > > > Michael Gillen KK6RWK wrote: > > Kind of a dumb question however here goes: > > I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 > to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much > juice I need to power that thing! > > I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A > continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. > > So my questions are: > > 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, > and in the future a P3 Panadaper? > > 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? > > 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? > > > Thanks guys, > Michael > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to hsherr...@reagan.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
It should be fine to run the KPA500 at reduced power using your existing 15 amp outlet, unless you have a lot of other stuff plugged in. You can always add a 240v outlet later. I ran a separate 20 amp 120v outlet along with a new 240v outlet into the shack. Your 30 amp power supply is adequate for the K3S and P3. GL John KK9A Michael Gillen KK6RWK wrote: Kind of a dumb question however here goes: I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice I need to power that thing! I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. So my questions are: 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in the future a P3 Panadaper? 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? Thanks guys, Michael __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
AND, if there's any sort of electrical fire and it is discovered a 20 A breaker was installed with 14Ga wire, you fire insurance becomes instantly "non-functus". That's Latin for "You're screwed". Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 11:16 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3? On 6/13/2018 8:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft wrote: > Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in > the future a P3 Panadaper? Yes. > 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #12 or larger. > 30A? Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #10. These are electrical safety code requirements, which carry the force of law. > 3) Will the Alinco be big enough Yes > or should I upgrade that as well? No. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pin...@erols.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
Thanks for the thorough answer Jim! Michael KK6RWK > On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > >> On 6/13/2018 8:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft wrote: >> Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in >> the future a P3 Panadaper? > > Yes. > >> 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? > > Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #12 or larger. > >> 30A? > > Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #10. These are electrical safety > code requirements, which carry the force of law. > >> 3) Will the Alinco be big enough > > Yes > >> or should I upgrade that as well? > > No. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to mjgil...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
I understand not to change any breakers. Roger that. Thank you for the quick replies! Michael KK6RWK > On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:25 PM, David Christ wrote: > > DO NOT change the breaker > > > I am concerned about your so blithely talking about just changing the > breaker. The breaker is there to protect the wire and is sized according to > the wire. Do not increase the size of the breaker without verifying what the > wire gauge is. Quite likely if the breaker is now 15 amp the wire is > probably #14. This is common in residential situations. Increasing the > breaker will create a fire hazard. Whether that circuit is sufficient > depends on the length of the run as well as the size of the wire. Smaller > wire and longer runs will have more voltage drop which is not good. Others > on this reflector can give you more detail on this. > > > The Alinco should do OK for the K3S, KAT500, and P3. It doesn’t power > anything in the KPA500. > > David K0LUM > >> On Jun 13, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft >> wrote: >> >> Kind of a dumb question however here goes: >> >> I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 >> to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice >> I need to power that thing! >> >> I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A >> continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. >> >> So my questions are: >> >> 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and >> in the future a P3 Panadaper? >> >> 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? >> >> 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? >> >> >> Thanks guys, >> Michael >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to radio...@mchsi.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
DO NOT change the breaker I am concerned about your so blithely talking about just changing the breaker. The breaker is there to protect the wire and is sized according to the wire. Do not increase the size of the breaker without verifying what the wire gauge is. Quite likely if the breaker is now 15 amp the wire is probably #14. This is common in residential situations. Increasing the breaker will create a fire hazard. Whether that circuit is sufficient depends on the length of the run as well as the size of the wire. Smaller wire and longer runs will have more voltage drop which is not good. Others on this reflector can give you more detail on this. The Alinco should do OK for the K3S, KAT500, and P3. It doesn’t power anything in the KPA500. David K0LUM > On Jun 13, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft > wrote: > > Kind of a dumb question however here goes: > > I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 to > it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice I > need to power that thing! > > I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A > continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. > > So my questions are: > > 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and > in the future a P3 Panadaper? > > 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? > > 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? > > > Thanks guys, > Michael > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to radio...@mchsi.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
On 6/13/2018 8:02 PM, Michael Gillen via Elecraft wrote: Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in the future a P3 Panadaper? Yes. 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #12 or larger. 30A? Only if all the wiring on that breaker is #10. These are electrical safety code requirements, which carry the force of law. 3) Will the Alinco be big enough Yes or should I upgrade that as well? No. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] power requirements for a K3S, KPA500, KAT500, P3?
Kind of a dumb question however here goes: I got my K3S a short while ago and now I want to add the KPA500 and KAT500 to it however it just now occurred to me that I should check how much juice I need to power that thing! I’m currently using an Alinco DM-330MV which I believe puts out 30A continuous however its probably plugged into one the house 15A lines. So my questions are: 1) Will 15A house line supply enough juice for the K3S, KPA500, KAT500, and in the future a P3 Panadaper? 2) If not can I get away with replacing the breaker with a 20A breaker? 30A? 3) Will the Alinco be big enough or should I upgrade that as well? Thanks guys, Michael __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
