Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection
Well, Never mind. Thanks anyway. I did NOT have them turned on in all modes. It seems since I did that they work just fine after a power down. More questions to follow I am sure. 73 Mike Sanders KØAZ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Mike Sanders Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 7:40 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection Greetings, Just got my new K3 options in Monday and had them all installed by Tuesday morning. I installed 3 of the 4 possible optional roofing filters. They have been turned on and the BW set in config. My problem is when I power down the radio they cannot be called up by tapping the XFIL button. I have to go into the config and call them up to verify they are there and then out of config. Once done I can call them up with a XFIL tap. Any hints or ideas of what I am missing? TIA es 73, Mike Mike Sanders KØAZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5231 - Release Date: 08/28/12 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection
I never use the XFIL buttons. I dial the bandwidth I want by twisting the width knob just to the left of VFO A. Or I tap the LOW knob to normalize the settings for CW or phone. 73 de Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sanders Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:40 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection Greetings, Just got my new K3 options in Monday and had them all installed by Tuesday morning. I installed 3 of the 4 possible optional roofing filters. They have been turned on and the BW set in config. My problem is when I power down the radio they cannot be called up by tapping the XFIL button. I have to go into the config and call them up to verify they are there and then out of config. Once done I can call them up with a XFIL tap. Any hints or ideas of what I am missing? TIA es 73, Mike Mike Sanders KØAZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection
Or I tap the LOW knob to normalize the settings for CW or phone. Of course you mean *hold* the LOW knob ... It would be handy if *hold* would normalize at 2.8 KHz bw in DATA A and 400 Hz in AFSK A/FSK D for data modes. Normalizing to 400 Hz in DATA A is a problem. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 8/29/2012 9:26 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote: I never use the XFIL buttons. I dial the bandwidth I want by twisting the width knob just to the left of VFO A. Or I tap the LOW knob to normalize the settings for CW or phone. 73 de Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sanders Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:40 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Filter Selection Greetings, Just got my new K3 options in Monday and had them all installed by Tuesday morning. I installed 3 of the 4 possible optional roofing filters. They have been turned on and the BW set in config. My problem is when I power down the radio they cannot be called up by tapping the XFIL button. I have to go into the config and call them up to verify they are there and then out of config. Once done I can call them up with a XFIL tap. Any hints or ideas of what I am missing? TIA es 73, Mike Mike Sanders KØAZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Filter selection question
Hi Wes, This is by design. Selecting a filter manually via XFIL normalizes the DSP bandwidth to the crystal filter bandwidth. Using any other method (WIDTH, SHIFT, LO, HI) selects a crystal filter based on the DSP bandwidth (which you can see by rotating WIDTH, or just tapping it twice). If you want to quickly alternate between two bandwidth settings that may not be the normalized values, you can use the floating presets (I/ II switch, part of the HI/WIDTH knob). These presets are saved per- mode. Typically I set preset I to 500 Hz and preset II to 100 Hz. In addition to the floating presets, you can create two fixed presets in each mode. Please see NORM1/NORM2 in the owner's manual. Regarding performance: There is absolutely no question that inserting the 400-Hz crystal filter will provide dramatically better results when large signals are present ( about S9+10). With the 2.8 kHz crystal filter selected, signals within the 2.8 kHz passband but outside a narrower DSP bandwidth could activate hardware AGC. This reflects the K3's very crystal-filter-centric design philosophy: use the narrowest 1st IF roofing filter consistent with the present mode. Other manufacturers put less emphasis on this because they typically can't offer narrow 1st IF filters (3 to 6 kHz or wider, vs. the K3's minimum bandwidth filter, which is 200 Hz). 73, Wayne N6KR On Nov 16, 2009, at 4:23 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: I received my new 400 Hz filter midway through the WAE RTTY contest and since I wasn't really contesting, took the time to install it. I guess I'm a little underwhelmed so far, but to be fair I wanted to compare it under fire with the 2.8 KHz filter I have been using. (I expected less buckshot from out-of-the-passband adjacent signals with the narrower filter, although this may be a commentary on the lousy transmitted signals) I continued to allow the 2.8 KHz filter to be used on data modes because if I decide to use the PSK modes, I might want the wider BW. Problem is... when switching the crystal filters manually, the DSP bandwidth defaults to 2.8 KHz when I select the 2.8 KHz crystal filter and 400 Hz when I select the 400 Hz crystal filter, even though I may have previously reduced the Width setting to something narrower. Likewise, when in Data mode with the 2.8KHz filter selected, hitting NORM defaults to 400 Hz BW, which again selects the 400 Hz filter. I suppose this is by design, but why can't the radio simply maintain some independence between the crystal and DSP filters? Wes N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
Bill W4ZV wrote: 400 and 250: A waste of money IMHO. Since the 400 is actually 435 and the 250 is actually 370, there is only 65 Hz difference in this combination and you'll probably never notice the difference between them (370/435 = only 15% narrower). Total cost $250. I think you are generalising from a single sample. It may well be the case that to guarantee a bandwidth of at least 250 Hz, without doing expensive select on test procedures for the capacitors, one will have some samples at 370 Hz. What you may be getting is 250Hz with a given shape factor, but individual units may achieve that shape factor by going flat to a higher frequency and then cutting off much more sharply. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
David and All, Not necessarily! I think Bill is pretty much on point since that is the posted spec for the 250 hz filter (not just some random test). I am led to believe these filters do not vary widely in manufacturing. So it would appear that a 400 hz/250 hz combinations is not a particularly good combination. The 200 hz may well be a better choice if you want to go that narrow. I have the 400 hz/200 hz combination, but I find I don't use the 200 hz filter nearly as much as I thought I would. I think that is primarily due to the fact I just don't seem to need to go that narrow, which speaks well for the K3 generally. I have used narrow filters a lot in other radios, but those were audio filters, not roofing filters. The DSP in the K3 seems to provide just about any additional filtering I need while using the 400 hz filter. Digital ops may actually find the 200 hz filter more useful. But I haven't really given my K3 a good baptism under contest fire. I missed the CQ WPX contest last week, and that would have been a great test for the narrow filter I think. I can also tell you from my experience that you need to set the 200 hz filter (and presumably the 250 hz filter) up with more gain added than they recommend in the manual. There seems to be a very noticeable reduction in signal level when the 200 hz filter is engaged. I believe this is on the to do list that Wayne has--to improve this signal level issue. I think Bill has analyzed the filter combination issue more than just about anyone. You may want to go back through the archives and read some of his prior posts to get some good insight about selecting various filter combinations. He may not be the last word on the subject, but I think it will give you added perspective. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: David Woolley (E.L) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection Bill W4ZV wrote: 400 and 250: A waste of money IMHO. Since the 400 is actually 435 and the 250 is actually 370, there is only 65 Hz difference in this combination and you'll probably never notice the difference between them (370/435 = only 15% narrower). Total cost $250. I think you are generalising from a single sample. It may well be the case that to guarantee a bandwidth of at least 250 Hz, without doing expensive select on test procedures for the capacitors, one will have some samples at 370 Hz. What you may be getting is 250Hz with a given shape factor, but individual units may achieve that shape factor by going flat to a higher frequency and then cutting off much more sharply. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
I think you are generalising from a single sample. No, that is INRAD's own specification and is found in the filter curves on both their web site and in the 8 pole curves on the Elecraft site. The same was true with the Fox Tango filers before the filter line was acquired by W2VJN many years ago. All of the filers are slightly wider than nominal so that the effective bandwidth of two cascaded filters (e.g., 8 MHz and 455 KHz) is approximately nominal. Unfortunately, the 8 and 9 MHz filters in particular are significantly wider than the notational value in the narrow values - more than necessary to maintain the desired bandwidth in cascade. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woolley (E.L) Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:04 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection Bill W4ZV wrote: 400 and 250: A waste of money IMHO. Since the 400 is actually 435 and the 250 is actually 370, there is only 65 Hz difference in this combination and you'll probably never notice the difference between them (370/435 = only 15% narrower). Total cost $250. I think you are generalising from a single sample. It may well be the case that to guarantee a bandwidth of at least 250 Hz, without doing expensive select on test procedures for the capacitors, one will have some samples at 370 Hz. What you may be getting is 250Hz with a given shape factor, but individual units may achieve that shape factor by going flat to a higher frequency and then cutting off much more sharply. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
Jim Miller-14 wrote: I keep seeing talk of the 400(435) or 500 combined with the 250(370). I see very little talk about the 200. My thought was to use the 400 and the 200. Maybe the decision should include the 500/200 combination. Is the 200 just too narrow or why don't I see more apparent use of it? I know, what is my use? I want to be able to operate most all modes except AM and FM where I have very little interest at this time. Will the 400 cut out RTTY? The other configuration I was considering was the 500 and the 250 but hadn't added the filters to my order yet as I was trying to make up my mind but comments here aren't really helping with my decision. Here are the options you are considering: 400 and 250: A waste of money IMHO. Since the 400 is actually 435 and the 250 is actually 370, there is only 65 Hz difference in this combination and you'll probably never notice the difference between them (370/435 = only 15% narrower). Total cost $250. 500 and 250: The 500 (actually 565) is a nice BW for contests since you can hear callers who are off-frequency. The 250 (actually 370) is 35% narrower so you'll notice a little more difference than above. Total cost $225. 500 and 200 (mine is ~210 Hz): This is my choice. I like the 500 since it is wide enough for off-frequency callers and yet the 200 is great for severe contest QRM situations like the bottom end of 40m was during CW WPX or 160m during one of the 160 contests. Having used the 200 in several 160 contests, I wouldn't consider being without it. Total cost $200. RTTY/PSK considerations: I'll let someone else address since I don't use either. Diversity considerations: If you choose 5-pole filters the offsets need to be matched but I believe Elecraft will provide some alternatives for this. For CW filters, it should be possible to split the difference in minor offset differences and any passband shape differences are not as critical as on SSB (i.e. probably not an important consideration for CW filters). IMD differences: Negligible as Inrad, Sherwood and Ten-Tec have previously stated, and as shown in Elecraft's own IMD measurements on the roofing filter page previously cited. You'll probably get N different opinions from N different users so you'll have to decide for yourself! 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-Ready-For-The-2nd-RX-tp17504714p17514881.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
I have the 400/200 and have been happy with it for CW and digital modes, though I added the 1KHz for CW tuning and wide digital modes (not RTTY). Leigh/WA5ZNU Jim Miller wrote: I keep seeing talk of the 400(435) or 500 combined with the 250(370). I see very little talk about the 200. My thought was to use the 400 and the 200. Maybe the decision should include the 500/200 combination. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
Keep in mind that the working selectivity for shaving off QRM is provided by the adjustable DSP filter in the 2nd I.F. The crystal filters in the K3 are actually pre-filters whose primary function is to avoid overload from extremely strong signals. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Filter selection
My choice: Main RX: 2.7 / 2.1 / 500 / 200 Sub RX : 2.7 / 400 73 Arie PA3A ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 filter selection
Chris, Many people like the 1.8. I have the 2.1 Inrad combo in my ol' MP. Pretty narrow to my ears. And I can use the shift width controls to decrease the bandwidth some more. I ordered the 2.1 for my K3. If I need to knock out something, I'm convinced that the DSP filtering will make it so. Otherwise we would not need it for bandwidth adjustments. 73 Arie PA3A -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Hi, Looking to get 8 pole K3 filter for SSB contest work, to knock out close in stations, considering the 1.8MHz filter, maybe too narrow? Suggestions based on experience much appreciated. Chris VK2LCD K2#3666 K3 hopefully departing Australian Customs.soon. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 filter selection
I have the 1.8 and like it - it's not hard to get SSB down to that and still hear clearly if you adjust it properly. I always start at 2.8KHz and then bring in the filter. On LSB, start by adjusting the Hi cut until you've almost got to 1.8KHZ, then adjust the Lo cut and maybe the high cut again and what for the filter to switch, assuming you started with 2.7 or 2.8. Haven't tried yet on USB - not much around on higher bands, guess you'd work that the other way. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do? -Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE) On 23 Apr 2008, at 03:31, Chris Meagher wrote: Hi, Looking to get 8 pole K3 filter for SSB contest work, to knock out close in stations, considering the 1.8MHz filter, maybe too narrow? Suggestions based on experience much appreciated. Chris VK2LCD K2#3666 K3 hopefully departing Australian Customs.soon. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 filter selection
I like the 1.8 and have ordered it for my K3. I used a 1.8 on FT-Mark 5, FT-MP, IC-775, and IC-706 and found them useful in all cases. Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:31:08 +1000 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 filter selection Hi, Looking to get 8 pole K3 filter for SSB contest work, to knock out close in stations, considering the 1.8MHz filter, maybe too narrow? Suggestions based on experience much appreciated. Chris VK2LCD K2#3666 K3 hopefully departing Australian Customs.soon. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
