Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Jun 3, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. And in 1981 - the whole PC world, as we now know it was started. CP/M was also on the runway - but big blue, killed it at the gate. Supposedly Gates bought the guts of DOS or PC BASIC, from a college friend, for a pittance. It's important to remember the history correctly. In 1981, Microsoft was a dominant supplier of microcomputer BASIC. IBM was already going to talk to them about that. IBM also wanted CP/M, and Gates assured them he could deliver that, too. What he ended up doing was buying QDOS from Seattle Softworks (for a pittance, really), and then re-working it into PCDOS. The rest is history. Had nothing to do with the Osborne Computer Inc. company. They just happened to be one of several companies; Heath, Osborne, . - who at that time ran under CP/M. So I'd call it the Gates effect. The Osborne Effect came later. It happened when Osborne pre-announced a PC-compatible portable computer. Once they did that, all sales of their CP/M portable virtually stopped. The reduction in sales bankrupted the company before they could finish and ship their PC- compatible design. Of course, the wikipedia entry indicates that perhaps the role of the pre-announcement was overstated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Osborne_effect Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:02 PM, Doug Person wrote: Bill bought QDOS for $40,000 cash and some vague promises about further deals. Many, many companies have looked back at their dealings with Bill and realized they've been had. BigTime. The dirty dealings with IBM are by far the worst thing on Bill's list of dirty tricks and double-crosses. Oh, yeah. How about OS/2 -- Microsoft contracted with IBM to build it, took everything they learned from building it to create Windows 95, and then offered with IBM to do OS/2 v5 for $400 million Or how about how Gates in 1985 used the AppleSoft BASIC license renewal to extort a license to the Macintosh UI elements? This agreement basically allowed Microsoft to rip off any part of the Macintosh design for Windows 3.1. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Bill Coleman wrote: From the book Programmers at Work (c 1985), Gates talked at length about some of his programming and design tasks. One that stays with me is the bit about how Excel implements Cut, Copy, Paste. He came up with some clever behavior to limit the amount of temporary memory needed. Of course, 22 years later, that non-standard behavior is the bane of anyone using Excel. I know it causes me frustration every time I use Excel Switch to OpenOffice. Its free and works. Gary, WA4SZI ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:14 PM, Gary Montalbine wrote: Switch to OpenOffice. Its free and works. I'm really hoping the next version of iWork includes a spreadsheet Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Gentlemen, not to be a list cop, but good grief. Eric closed this thread over a month ago. Let it die, or take it to some Yahoo group. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On 6/4/07, Don Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the unfortunate result of too many folks waiting too long for some new scrap of information about their new K3 radios. Off topic posts and even worse, people choosing up sides over Bill Gates. This is very true. A solution might be for those who want to kill time speculating, theorising, fantasising or otherwise discussing the K3 to join the Elecraft K3 Yahoo Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elecraft_K3/ and lighten the load of this reflector. It wasn't me that set it up, but it seems a good idea, considering. 73, -- Julian, G4ILO G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. And in 1981 - the whole PC world, as we now know it was started. CP/M was also on the runway - but big blue, killed it at the gate. Supposedly Gates bought the guts of DOS or PC BASIC, from a college friend, for a pittance. Had nothing to do with the Osborne Computer Inc. company. They just happened to be one of several companies; Heath, Osborne, . - who at that time ran under CP/M. So I'd call it the Gates effect. N3CSY Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. And in 1981 - the whole PC world, as we now know it was started. CP/M was also on the runway - but big blue, killed it at the gate. Supposedly Gates bought the guts of DOS or PC BASIC, from a college friend, for a pittance. Had nothing to do with the Osborne Computer Inc. company. They just happened to be one of several companies; Heath, Osborne, . - who at that time ran under CP/M. So I'd call it the Gates effect. N3CSY Not quite correct but almost. IBM came calling to the CP/M folks looking for an OS for the PC. Gary Kildahl blew them off and didn't show for the meeting. IBM went elsewhere and the rest was history. -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
That's the story I remember. Gates has been great at acquiring other peoples projects and turning them into gold..I'm not sure he's ever actually written a line of code! Doug W6JD -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
When I worked for Dominion Semiconductor (Toshiba/IBM joint venture) one of the IBM engineers related that same story to me. Basically Gates didn't have anything but knew where to get it. Even as an 18 year old geek is was a shrewd businessman. Tom kf4yyd -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/829 - Release Date: 6/2/2007 5:26 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
In a message dated 6/3/07 1:44:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. That's the story I heard, too. Microsoft had to do some things to QDOS, particularly writing documentation and following up with later versions, but that's a far cry from developing an OS from the ground up. But for me, the early success of Microsoft was based on some smart business choices by Bill Gates friends, and by a court decision. The court decision was the one involving Franklin computers, (remember them?) which involved the 'clean room' method of reverse-engineering the IBM-PC's BIOS. The courts made it possible for true IBM-PC compatible clones to be made and sold legally. The smart business choice went like this, as I heard it: IBM did not buy exclusive rights to MS-DOS. Gates could sell DOS to anybody else who wanted it. If a company wanted DOS, they could buy it two ways: 1) Pay a certain fee per copy 2) Pay a fixed fee up front, and then a much lower fee per copy. But the buyer had to agree to include MS-DOS with every computer they made. Other OS's could be included as well, just so long as MS-DOS was part of the deal. The pricing was adjusted so that option 2) was by far the least expensive for the computer makers. This gave Microsoft big bucks upfront from the fixed fees, which was good. But even better, it caused millions of first-time computer buyers to adopt DOS as their default OS, simply because it came with the computer. 73 de Jim, N2EY ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
I can remember when I started writing in assembler for my IBMPC that came with PCDOS 1.0. The calls to the operating system were exactly like CP/M. All you had to do was load a memory address (I forget which one) with a value that defined the type of system you call you were making and then execute a CALL to address 0004 and away you went. PCDOS 2.0 change all of that. John [K7SVV] - Original Message - From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fred (FL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans . On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/829 - Release Date: 6/2/2007 5:26 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
It's also worth mention that Bill Gates father is among the best Intellectual Property attorneys in the country. Bill didn't have the legal bill when beginning his business that many start-ups face. Microsoft like Dolby Labs etc. is all about Intellectual Property. Pete kn6bi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 12:55 PM To: Elecraft Subject:Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans . That's the story I remember. Gates has been great at acquiring other peoples projects and turning them into gold..I'm not sure he's ever actually written a line of code! Doug W6JD -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com __ NOD32 2305 (20070601) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
I know I must be missing something. I see this thread going on and on. I note Eric hasn't jumped on it and ordered its termination, so it must have a relationship to Elecraft, or at least Ham Radio, but I am too dumb to see it. Is the K3 going to have MSDOS built in? Did Bill Gates design the K3 software? Is Bill Gates buying Elecraft? Inquiring minds want to know. -- --- _____ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ John L. Sielke ( W )( 2 )( A )( G )( N ) http://w2agn.net \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ http://www.blurty.com/users/w2agn check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QRPariahs/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Bill Gates has written lots of code. He is (or at least was) a truly outstanding programmer. Years ago he was known to review code, find something he didn't like and call up the programmer and give 'em hell. MS Programmers have also been known to suddenly receive bonuses as stock options because Bill liked their code. The very highest status a programmer could hope to achieve was having been recognized by Bill in this way. Also, PC-DOS has always been on the market. In fact you can still buy a copy (version 8.0). It has always been maintained separately from MS-DOS since its inception. A significant portion of PC-DOS was (and still is) strictly blue-code. Bill bought QDOS for $40,000 cash and some vague promises about further deals. Many, many companies have looked back at their dealings with Bill and realized they've been had. BigTime. The dirty dealings with IBM are by far the worst thing on Bill's list of dirty tricks and double-crosses. 73, Doug -- K0DXV [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the story I remember. Gates has been great at acquiring other peoples projects and turning them into gold..I'm not sure he's ever actually written a line of code! Doug W6JD -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007, W2AGN wrote: I know I must be missing something. I see this thread going on and on. I note Eric hasn't jumped on it and ordered its termination, so it must have a relationship to Elecraft, or at least Ham Radio, but I am too dumb to see it. You need to open your horizons John Is the K3 going to have MSDOS built in? You may specify Windows or Linux Did Bill Gates design the K3 software? No, but he gets a royalty. Is Bill Gates buying Elecraft? Rumor has it that the deposits for the K3 will be used to nuy Microsoft. Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Thom LaCosta wrote: On Sun, 3 Jun 2007, W2AGN wrote: I know I must be missing something. I see this thread going on and on. I note Eric hasn't jumped on it and ordered its termination, so it must have a relationship to Elecraft, or at least Ham Radio, but I am too dumb to see it. You need to open your horizons John Is the K3 going to have MSDOS built in? You may specify Windows or Linux Did Bill Gates design the K3 software? No, but he gets a royalty. Is Bill Gates buying Elecraft? Rumor has it that the deposits for the K3 will be used to nuy Microsoft. Thom,EIEIO I wasn't really complaining. I just am trying to figure out what is considered off-topic and what is not. It appears to be a perplexing puzzle on many email reflectors. I have determined that a topic will be quashed as off-topic IF: 1. It expresses an opinion contrary to that of the list owner/moderator. 2. It criticizes a Scared Cow such as ARRL, etc. 3. It upsets someone enough that they send complaints to the list owner/moderator, thereby causing him work. 4. It is initiated/continued by an individual who is viewed as a troublemaker. There must be others I haven't figured out yet. --- _____ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ John L. Sielke ( W )( 2 )( A )( G )( N ) http://w2agn.net \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ http://www.blurty.com/users/w2agn Member screwed by QRP-ARCI! http://w2agn.net/noarci.html ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007, W2AGN wrote: on many email reflectors. I have determined that a topic will be quashed as off-topic IF: 1. It expresses an opinion contrary to that of the list owner/moderator. 2. It criticizes a Scared Cow such as ARRL, etc. 3. It upsets someone enough that they send complaints to the list owner/moderator, thereby causing him work. 4. It is initiated/continued by an individual who is viewed as a troublemaker. The true Off-Topic post would satisfy ALL of the elements listed above. Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Unfortunately, for the customersw/patrons, Bill has continued screwing us all with imperfect and buggy operating systems! Too bad he doesn't improve and debug the old Windows systems instead of foisting newer and still buggy systems on us! To add to our misery, he has seen fit to invest his billions in India where he gets programmers cheaper. (The ones you can't understand on technical Help!) I have heard real horror stories about the Consumer version of VISTA! 73, Sandy W5TVW - Original Message - From: Doug Person [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans . Bill Gates has written lots of code. He is (or at least was) a truly outstanding programmer. Years ago he was known to review code, find something he didn't like and call up the programmer and give 'em hell. MS Programmers have also been known to suddenly receive bonuses as stock options because Bill liked their code. The very highest status a programmer could hope to achieve was having been recognized by Bill in this way. Also, PC-DOS has always been on the market. In fact you can still buy a copy (version 8.0). It has always been maintained separately from MS-DOS since its inception. A significant portion of PC-DOS was (and still is) strictly blue-code. Bill bought QDOS for $40,000 cash and some vague promises about further deals. Many, many companies have looked back at their dealings with Bill and realized they've been had. BigTime. The dirty dealings with IBM are by far the worst thing on Bill's list of dirty tricks and double-crosses. 73, Doug -- K0DXV [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the story I remember. Gates has been great at acquiring other peoples projects and turning them into gold..I'm not sure he's ever actually written a line of code! Doug W6JD -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
You mean beside their decision to integrate the browser with the operating system Bad Bill, no cookie... David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW K2 #5982 Doug Person wrote: Bill Gates has written lots of code. He is (or at least was) a truly outstanding programmer. Years ago he was known to review code, find something he didn't like and call up the programmer and give 'em hell. MS Programmers have also been known to suddenly receive bonuses as stock options because Bill liked their code. The very highest status a programmer could hope to achieve was having been recognized by Bill in this way. Also, PC-DOS has always been on the market. In fact you can still buy a copy (version 8.0). It has always been maintained separately from MS-DOS since its inception. A significant portion of PC-DOS was (and still is) strictly blue-code. Bill bought QDOS for $40,000 cash and some vague promises about further deals. Many, many companies have looked back at their dealings with Bill and realized they've been had. BigTime. The dirty dealings with IBM are by far the worst thing on Bill's list of dirty tricks and double-crosses. 73, Doug -- K0DXV [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the story I remember. Gates has been great at acquiring other peoples projects and turning them into gold..I'm not sure he's ever actually written a line of code! Doug W6JD -- Original message -- From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: And Bill Gates empire was launched, and IBM got its first DOS contract from Gates - and IBM's PC was launched. The way I remember it, IBM decided they wanted a version of CP/M for their new Intel 8086-based system and went to Digital Research. Somehow the folks at DR managed to really annoy the folks from IBM. (I heard it that Gary Kildall's wife wouldn't deal with them because Gary was out-of-town.) So IBM turned to the small company that was supposed to provide the BASIC interpreter for the new PC: Microsoft. Bill Gates of Microsoft assured IBM that Microsoft had a replacement for CP/M-86 even though they really didn't. (Ah, vapor-ware has been with us for a LONG time.) Microsoft then quickly purchased the rights to a CP/M lookalike called QDOS. That became IBM's PC-DOS which Microsoft then renamed MS-DOS. The rest is history. 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
I wasn't really complaining. I just am trying to figure out what is considered off-topic and what is not. It appears to be a perplexing puzzle on many email reflectors. I have determined that a topic will be quashed as off-topic IF: ... No need to be so cynical. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Eric actually spends some time away from the mail list, and he hasn't seen this thread yet. I expect it will be put back on topic, or ended in a day or two. Mark AD5SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Mark Bayern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (06/03/2007 22:18) No need to be so cynical. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Eric actually spends some time away from the mail list, and he hasn't seen this thread yet. I expect it will be put back on topic, or ended in a day or two. Mark AD5SS Cynical ? Moi? Not at all. Just a realist. John - W2AGN ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
So how many people on this reflector haven't posted to this thread? -- W2CVZ, Michael K1#2343 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
So how many people on this reflector haven't posted to this thread? Most. 30 posts 2000 members. But at last: A hot, off-topic thread that I neither started nor threw gasoline on. :-) Craig NZ0R ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
This is the unfortunate result of too many folks waiting too long for some new scrap of information about their new K3 radios. Off topic posts and even worse, people choosing up sides over Bill Gates. Man, that's boredom. Possibly also mixed with a liberal dose of new radio anxiety. Please Eric, Wayne, or even Lisa at this point, throw us a bone or some tasty morsel before these posts deteriorate any further. I for one promise to be grateful and not to make any extreme off topic posts for at least a day or two. Thanks! ;-) To: Mark Bayern [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans . From: W2AGN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 23:08:03 -0300 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Delivered-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-to: elecraft@mailman.qth.net In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft List-help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-id: Elecraft Discussion List elecraft.mailman.qth.net List-post: mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net List-subscribe: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-unsubscribe: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Bayern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (06/03/2007 22:18) No need to be so cynical. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Eric actually spends some time away from the mail list, and he hasn't seen this thread yet. I expect it will be put back on topic, or ended in a day or two. Mark AD5SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On Mar 3, 2007, at 11:23 AM, John Young wrote: If my memory is still working I recall Osbone made a very nice CP/M computer in the dark ages. When the owner announced that the next model would be IBM PC compatible, all orders for the CP/M system ended and the company went broke. In the business literature, this is known as the Osbourne Effect for this reason. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
They could tell you .. but then they'd have to kill you :) de w1rt/john On 3/3/07, Fred (FL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you give us a view of Elecraft's new HF product(s) goals, and perhaps plans. For whatever the reason - Elecraft was very vocal and open about their work in new HF amps. With Elecrat's known expertise and skills in HF transceiver design and manufacture - I guess I'm praying that there is a natural K1, K2, KX progression. Or am I only dreaming? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
I hope Elecraft doesn't get too carried away with new products ... to their detriment ... like Detroit. Detroit's attitude guarnteed the German and Japanese auto manufacturer's success. (I've owned 17 VW's) One doesn't have to look very far to see companies that have gone too far too fast only to trip over their success. Perhaps it's difficult to throttle success and not grow too big and lose control. Simply put, Elecraft is CLASS. I hope they resist calls to expand and offer products for everyone. They're unique in the ham radio equipment arena. I've lusted for a K2 for several years ... even sold my FT-1000D to fund mine. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
Fred (FL) wrote: Without spilling the beans, or showing one's hand - could Elecraft give us a better view of how new products may happen in the future? Does Elecraft have a goal of other transceivers, updated transceiver products? Could (could) there be new near-term HF product kits in the future. Or is the K2, it? Could there be a K3 kit, sometime in the near future? What, and then have to patiently endure the unending masses of emails about it being all empty boxes, vaporware, and how it really should have been done this way or that? If I were them, I would never announce anything ever again, until it was ready to go up for sale! Thank goodness they are much better mannered than I am. ;-) -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
On 3/3/07, Sam Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred (FL) wrote: Without spilling the beans, or showing one's hand - could Elecraft give us a better view of how new products may happen in the future? Does Elecraft have a goal of other transceivers, updated transceiver products? Could (could) there be new near-term HF product kits in the future. Or is the K2, it? Could there be a K3 kit, sometime in the near future? If my memory is still working I recall Osbone made a very nice CP/M computer in the dark ages. When the owner announced that the next model would be IBM PC compatible, all orders for the CP/M system ended and the company went broke. I would rather had a good company like Elecraft than know surprises they have for us. 72 John K1 and KX1 -- John D Young WA8KNE ETC USN retired ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans .....
NO BEANS ... Sounds like everyone is a happy camper. Forget the new products. I'm about the same vintage as Don. I recall my Dad, W2PZW, never got past his treasured Halicrafters receiver, end fed Zep, and plate modulator .. that's all the technology he wanted. His best ham buddy had a 40 foot wooden home made tower - and they used to talk up a storm on AM. Sounding like if I want to build something, it might better be another boat. I could start that tomorrow. LOL, Fred N3CSY It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Spilling the HF beans ..... NEW STUFF
what fun would it be to go to DAYTON and the QRP FDIM four days in May conference and NOT see the latest new stuff from Elecraft. opportunities such as Dayton ALWAYS have held the initial introduction of BIG NEW PRODUCTS. companies strive to get er done to show at Dayton, whether it be ICOM, or Elecraft... one of the reasons we make the trek... right bill ny9h ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
