Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Jack Brindle]

See below for a better understanding of how the KPA500 works when set for RADIO 
= SERIAL mode.

> On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Update:
> 
> Bottom line is that the sniffer approach works.
> 
> Details:
> 1.  Ideally, the sniffer should *not* be attached to the radio (Kenwood) 
> RS-232 line, but to the secondary RS-232 line (Configured by DXLabs 
> software).  It appears that KPA500 only responds to commands from DXLabs and 
> not the radio (I suspect this is because polling is being used by DXLabs and 
> not the Kenwood Auto Info command) - yes, I did try a pin 2/3 swap on the 
> sniffer tap point.  This also has implications when the KPA500 is turned on 
> after frequency changes because it will know the current frequency (not fatal 
> since it can RF Sense switch anyway).

The KPA is designed to either connect directly to the Kenwood radio or with a 
“Y” adapter it can eavesdrop on the computer-radio conversation. When 
eavesdropping, it is the computer (or other controlling device) that determines 
the polling rate. When that devices issues a frequency request the radio 
responds and the KPA500 will receive the data and respond accordingly.

When the KPA is set for RADIO=SERIAL, the SER POLL setting becomes important. 
When OFF, the KPA does exactly as described above - it only listens for data 
from the radio. If you directly connect the KPA to the radio (no Y cable into 
the KPA), then set the SER POLL item to ON. This will cause the KPA to 
periodically poll the radio for frequency. The poll rate is once per second, 
and the KPA issues the following commands for each poll: “FA;FB;FT;”. Again, 
note that this _only_ works when the KPA is allowed to talk to the radio 
directly.
 
> 2. The KPA500 seems to "look for" radio RS-232 data about every 5 seconds 
> because that is the lag from the Kenwood changing frequency to the KPA 
> changing bands.  A bit too long for me but tolerable.

The KPA500 is constantly available for data coming into its serial ports, and 
reacts to that data within 1 millisecond of the receipt of the terminating 
semicolon. If you are seeing it react every five seconds, that means the radio 
is only sending the information every 5 seconds. You should determine why that 
is happening, most likely because the commanding device is only polling with 
that period.

> Next Steps:
> 1. Move the sniffer to the KAT500 RS-232 line where DXLabs will send data via 
> the Secondary COM Port (K3 native format) to the KAT500 when clicking on a 
> spot or moving the Kenwood VFO.  Alas, I have the USB cable for the KAT500, 
> so I need to get the RS-232 cable.

If the DXLabs can send the proper format for the KAT500, then this might work. 
There are very few devices that do send native KAT500 or KPA500 commands, so 
you might want to look at another method unless that device happens to be on 
the short list. I have no info about the DXLabs device, but tend to doubt it 
handles the format. Also realize that the KPA500 will change bands immediately 
on detecting transmitted RF at its input on a band other than the one it last 
used, so this should not be as critical as you might think.

The KAT500 does not listen to the K3’s serial port for its frequency 
information, but rather to the K3’s Auxbus channel. It also does not understand 
the K3 responses, so piping K3 - formatted serial data into the KAT500 (or the 
KPA500 for that matter) will pretty much do nothing.

If no computer is involved in the station setup, it is quite possible that the 
you may want to have the DXLabs device eavesdrop on the KPA-computer 
communications. In either case, also realize that nothing is actually sending 
the BCD data for the KAT500 or KPA500 to respond to. Neither of these devices 
will drive the BCD signals, they only listen to them. That means that both must 
respond to RF data to determine band changes, unless you find some way to tell 
both (independently) the new band. Perhaps the DXLabs box can perform that 
function. It is possible for a KRC-2 to do this function, although I have never 
tried it.

Good luck and 73!

Jack Brindle, W6FB
Elecraft Engineering

> 
> 73,
> 
> Cliff K3LL/6
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cliff Frescura [mailto:c...@cfcorp.com] 
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 2:10 PM
> To: 'Jack Brindle'
> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?
> 
> Thanks Jack and others that replied off list.
> 
> I'm going to go with the y cable sniffer approach.  Since I don't use the amp 
> all the time, I'd rather not have to power it up just so the KAT500 can 
> receive commands from the Kenwood.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Cliff K3ll
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Brindle [mailto:jackbrin...@me.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 12:

Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Cliff Frescura]

Update:

Bottom line is that the sniffer approach works.

Details:
1.  Ideally, the sniffer should *not* be attached to the radio (Kenwood) RS-232 
line, but to the secondary RS-232 line (Configured by DXLabs software).  It 
appears that KPA500 only responds to commands from DXLabs and not the radio (I 
suspect this is because polling is being used by DXLabs and not the Kenwood 
Auto Info command) - yes, I did try a pin 2/3 swap on the sniffer tap point.  
This also has implications when the KPA500 is turned on after frequency changes 
because it will know the current frequency (not fatal since it can RF Sense 
switch anyway).

2. The KPA500 seems to "look for" radio RS-232 data about every 5 seconds 
because that is the lag from the Kenwood changing frequency to the KPA changing 
bands.  A bit too long for me but tolerable.

Next Steps:
1. Move the sniffer to the KAT500 RS-232 line where DXLabs will send data via 
the Secondary COM Port (K3 native format) to the KAT500 when clicking on a spot 
or moving the Kenwood VFO.  Alas, I have the USB cable for the KAT500, so I 
need to get the RS-232 cable.

73,

Cliff K3LL/6



-Original Message-
From: Cliff Frescura [mailto:c...@cfcorp.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 2:10 PM
To: 'Jack Brindle'
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

Thanks Jack and others that replied off list.

I'm going to go with the y cable sniffer approach.  Since I don't use the amp 
all the time, I'd rather not have to power it up just so the KAT500 can receive 
commands from the Kenwood.

73,

Cliff K3ll

-Original Message-
From: Jack Brindle [mailto:jackbrin...@me.com]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 12:55 PM
To: Cliff Frescura
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

Or connect the Kenwood’s serial port to the KPA500’s Radio port, then set the 
RADIO = SERIAL in the KPA.
Follow the directions in the KPA manual. This is exactly what that serial port 
is designed to do. Make sure you use the RADIO port, not the PC port for this.

If you connect the serial port from the TS-940 to a computer, just make a Y 
cable to allow the KPA to see the data going from the Radio to the computer. 
And make sure the TX line is not connected to the KPA.

Also note that the KPA will not interpret the data destined for the KAT500. It 
is specifically look for transceiver data on the Radio port, or KPA-specific 
commands on the PC port.

- Jack, W6FB


> On Oct 9, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dick,
> 
> Looks like I could either have the KPA500 sniff the RS-232 line into 
> the
> KAT500 (use RXD pin only at the KPA500), or implement BAND0-3 and make 
> it minimally emulate a K3S into the KPA500.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Cliff K3LL
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dick Dievendorff [mailto:d...@elecraft.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 10:55 AM
> To: Cliff Frescura
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?
> 
> The KAT500 can read, but not pull down the 4 band change lines. 
> 
> Dick, K6KR
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2015, at 21:07, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If I change bands on the KAT500 via the PC Data port, it appears that 
>> the new band data is not sent to the Amp Control connector.  Is this 
>> expected behavior? (hoping no).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For reference, my setup is:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kenwood TS-940
>> 
>> DXLabs Logging program
>> 
>> KAT500
>> 
>> KPA500
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The 940 is connected to the computer and controlled by DXLabs.  
>> DXLabs is configured to send commands to the KAT500 (follow the 940).  
>> This all works fine.  I'm now trying to have the KPA500 follow the
>> KAT500 via the Amp Control connector on the KAT500 (with E850463 cable).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cliff K3LL
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> d...@elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This lis

Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Cliff Frescura]

Thanks Jack and others that replied off list.

I'm going to go with the y cable sniffer approach.  Since I don't use the amp 
all the time, I'd rather not have to power it up just so the KAT500 can receive 
commands from the Kenwood.

73,

Cliff K3ll

-Original Message-
From: Jack Brindle [mailto:jackbrin...@me.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 12:55 PM
To: Cliff Frescura
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

Or connect the Kenwood’s serial port to the KPA500’s Radio port, then set the 
RADIO = SERIAL in the KPA.
Follow the directions in the KPA manual. This is exactly what that serial port 
is designed to do. Make sure you use the RADIO port, not the PC port for this.

If you connect the serial port from the TS-940 to a computer, just make a Y 
cable to allow the KPA to see the data going from the Radio to the computer. 
And make sure the TX line is not connected to the KPA.

Also note that the KPA will not interpret the data destined for the KAT500. It 
is specifically look for transceiver data on the Radio port, or KPA-specific 
commands on the PC port.

- Jack, W6FB


> On Oct 9, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dick,
> 
> Looks like I could either have the KPA500 sniff the RS-232 line into 
> the
> KAT500 (use RXD pin only at the KPA500), or implement BAND0-3 and make 
> it minimally emulate a K3S into the KPA500.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Cliff K3LL
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dick Dievendorff [mailto:d...@elecraft.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 10:55 AM
> To: Cliff Frescura
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?
> 
> The KAT500 can read, but not pull down the 4 band change lines. 
> 
> Dick, K6KR
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2015, at 21:07, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If I change bands on the KAT500 via the PC Data port, it appears that 
>> the new band data is not sent to the Amp Control connector.  Is this 
>> expected behavior? (hoping no).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For reference, my setup is:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kenwood TS-940
>> 
>> DXLabs Logging program
>> 
>> KAT500
>> 
>> KPA500
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The 940 is connected to the computer and controlled by DXLabs.  
>> DXLabs is configured to send commands to the KAT500 (follow the 940).  
>> This all works fine.  I'm now trying to have the KPA500 follow the 
>> KAT500 via the Amp Control connector on the KAT500 (with E850463 cable).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cliff K3LL
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> d...@elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> jackbrin...@me.com





__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Jack Brindle]

Or connect the Kenwood’s serial port to the KPA500’s Radio port, then set the 
RADIO = SERIAL in the KPA.
Follow the directions in the KPA manual. This is exactly what that serial port 
is designed to do. Make sure you
use the RADIO port, not the PC port for this.

If you connect the serial port from the TS-940 to a computer, just make a Y 
cable to allow the KPA to see the data
going from the Radio to the computer. And make sure the TX line is not 
connected to the KPA.

Also note that the KPA will not interpret the data destined for the KAT500. It 
is specifically look for transceiver
data on the Radio port, or KPA-specific commands on the PC port.

- Jack, W6FB


> On Oct 9, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dick,
> 
> Looks like I could either have the KPA500 sniff the RS-232 line into the
> KAT500 (use RXD pin only at the KPA500), or implement BAND0-3 and make it
> minimally emulate a K3S into the KPA500.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Cliff K3LL
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dick Dievendorff [mailto:d...@elecraft.com] 
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 10:55 AM
> To: Cliff Frescura
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?
> 
> The KAT500 can read, but not pull down the 4 band change lines. 
> 
> Dick, K6KR
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2015, at 21:07, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If I change bands on the KAT500 via the PC Data port, it appears that 
>> the new band data is not sent to the Amp Control connector.  Is this 
>> expected behavior? (hoping no).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For reference, my setup is:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kenwood TS-940
>> 
>> DXLabs Logging program
>> 
>> KAT500
>> 
>> KPA500
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The 940 is connected to the computer and controlled by DXLabs.  DXLabs 
>> is configured to send commands to the KAT500 (follow the 940).  This 
>> all works fine.  I'm now trying to have the KPA500 follow the KAT500 
>> via the Amp Control connector on the KAT500 (with E850463 cable).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cliff K3LL
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> d...@elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jackbrin...@me.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Dick Dievendorff]

The KAT500 can read, but not pull down the 4 band change lines. 

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 8, 2015, at 21:07, Cliff Frescura  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> If I change bands on the KAT500 via the PC Data port, it appears that the
> new band data is not sent to the Amp Control connector.  Is this expected
> behavior? (hoping no).
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, my setup is:
> 
> 
> 
> Kenwood TS-940
> 
> DXLabs Logging program
> 
> KAT500
> 
> KPA500
> 
> 
> 
> The 940 is connected to the computer and controlled by DXLabs.  DXLabs is
> configured to send commands to the KAT500 (follow the 940).  This all works
> fine.  I'm now trying to have the KPA500 follow the KAT500 via the Amp
> Control connector on the KAT500 (with E850463 cable).
> 
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff K3LL
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to d...@elecraft.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

[Cliff Frescura]

Thanks Dick,

Looks like I could either have the KPA500 sniff the RS-232 line into the
KAT500 (use RXD pin only at the KPA500), or implement BAND0-3 and make it
minimally emulate a K3S into the KPA500.

73,

Cliff K3LL

-Original Message-
From: Dick Dievendorff [mailto:d...@elecraft.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 10:55 AM
To: Cliff Frescura
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KAT500] PC Data to Amp Control?

The KAT500 can read, but not pull down the 4 band change lines. 

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 8, 2015, at 21:07, Cliff Frescura <c...@cfcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> If I change bands on the KAT500 via the PC Data port, it appears that 
> the new band data is not sent to the Amp Control connector.  Is this 
> expected behavior? (hoping no).
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, my setup is:
> 
> 
> 
> Kenwood TS-940
> 
> DXLabs Logging program
> 
> KAT500
> 
> KPA500
> 
> 
> 
> The 940 is connected to the computer and controlled by DXLabs.  DXLabs 
> is configured to send commands to the KAT500 (follow the 940).  This 
> all works fine.  I'm now trying to have the KPA500 follow the KAT500 
> via the Amp Control connector on the KAT500 (with E850463 cable).
> 
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff K3LL
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> d...@elecraft.com




__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com