Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
SNOTEL has been doing something similar for 50 years. Wes N7WS On 2/6/2021 9:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 2/6/2021 9:58 AM, Michael Dinkelman wrote: I expect that is all done by computer these days. Yes, MS is done with one of K1JT's protocols than encodes the elements of the QSO in a form that fits in a hundred msec or so, transmits it repeatedly for a defined period (15, 30, or 60 seconds). When enough rocks have come by for computers on both sides of the QSO to complete the QSO, it goes into the log. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
Funny how things move around: back in 1914-15 they could do 300wpm on spark transmitters and regularly worked 200wpm with 15kW stations up and down the west coast USA. It wasn't said as such but we know it as FSK. Machine to machine. Plus ca change... David G3UNA > On 06 February 2021 at 18:11 Charlie T wrote: > > > I remember working at Microlog Inc (The OLD one in Gaithersburg MD that made > RTTY/CW video terminals) in the 80's. > No rigs at the time would function efficiently with on/off keying at that > speed, so we were experimenting with 300 WPM CW sent using the normal RTTY > method of 170Hz shift FSK. > It worked like a charm and our CW reader would copy perfectly at that speed > too. > Just about everyone in the company was a ham from the pres. on down, so we > played around with it on 2 meter FM using AFSK tones into the mike jack until > something new came along. > Other than just to see if it WOULD work, nothing more was ever done with it. > > 73, Charlie k3ICH > > > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On > Behalf Of David Gilbert > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2021 1:04 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key > > > I don't see that as being realistic. Per the normal definition of a Morse > "word" being the word "paris", 300 wpm means each dit would be no longer than > 4 msec. As best I can recall, the rise and fall of the K3 keying waveform > are each around 2.5 msec. I'm not at all an expert, but I suspect most > digital signal processing techniques would find that hard to differentiate. > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > > > > > On 2/6/2021 8:01 AM, Kurt Theis wrote: > > Greetings list! > > > > I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an > > answer, so I'll try here. > > I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new > > oscillators, serial 8xxx) when using a manual cw key plugged into the > > KEY jack on the back of the radio. > > > > I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so > > that won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX > > switch, and keyed via the KEY jack. > > > > I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message > delivered to pin...@erols.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to d.cut...@ntlworld.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
On 2/6/2021 9:58 AM, Michael Dinkelman wrote: I expect that is all done by computer these days. Yes, MS is done with one of K1JT's protocols than encodes the elements of the QSO in a form that fits in a hundred msec or so, transmits it repeatedly for a defined period (15, 30, or 60 seconds). When enough rocks have come by for computers on both sides of the QSO to complete the QSO, it goes into the log. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
To try to make sense of this experiment, I immediately assumed that Kurt wouldn't be using a hand key, but rather a device that interfaced to the radio through the KEY jack. Obviously an electronic switch could switch the key jack that fast, but I'm not sure about a relay. The other question that occurs to me is, "How wide will the resulting signal be?" 73 Bill AE6JV On 2/6/21 at 12:02 PM, dpbu...@gmail.com (David Bunte) wrote: Kurt - 300 wpm is so far beyond any speed I am aware of a human copying that I never gave that issue any thought... and few folks I know can send good CW above 40 ish wpm with a hand key, so I doubt if many folks have given that any thought. I will be interested to see what answers you get... and am curious as to why you want to know? Just curious or do you have a need to do that kind of speed with a hand key? Dave - K9FN On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM Kurt Theis wrote: Greetings list! I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an answer, so I'll try here. I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new oscillators, serial 8xxx) when using a manual cw key plugged into the KEY jack on the back of the radio. I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so that won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX switch, and keyed via the KEY jack. I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? -- theis.k...@gmail.com - Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle (408)348-7900 | around us, is there any choice | 150 Rivermead Rd #235 www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Peterborough, NH 03458 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
I've heard rumors of that but I have 38 states confirmed on two-meters (from the depths of southern AZ), mostly on ear-copy MS. I never encountered anyone offering or asking to use that method. I was forced into leaving weak-signal work for a number of years following a domestic upheaval in the 1980s and when I got back years later, it was all digital modes, and I declined to participate. So no 2-meter WAS for me. Wes N7WS On 2/6/2021 10:58 AM, Michael Dinkelman wrote: I designed a memory keyer in the mid-80's. Had a ridiculous speed range. Found out the meteor scatter folks were buying them. They would program a memory at normal speed, ramp the speed up, and use it for short bursts on CW during a meteor operation. Receiver would record it on tape, slow it down to decode. I expect that is all done by computer these days. :>) cheers dink, n7wa __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
Dave - In this case the "key" is a transistor circuit and the the result is decoded electronically. We want to know if a K3 is capable of being used with a burst encoder. I'm not in front of my K3 right now or I'd try it myself. Kurt On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 12:02 PM David Bunte wrote: > Kurt - > > 300 wpm is so far beyond any speed I am aware of a human copying that I > never gave that issue any thought... and few folks I know can send good CW > above 40 ish wpm with a hand key, so I doubt if many folks have given that > any thought. I will be interested to see what answers you get... and am > curious as to why you want to know? Just curious or do you have a need to > do that kind of speed with a hand key? > > Dave - K9FN > >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com >> > -- Kurt Theis __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
I remember working at Microlog Inc (The OLD one in Gaithersburg MD that made RTTY/CW video terminals) in the 80's. No rigs at the time would function efficiently with on/off keying at that speed, so we were experimenting with 300 WPM CW sent using the normal RTTY method of 170Hz shift FSK. It worked like a charm and our CW reader would copy perfectly at that speed too. Just about everyone in the company was a ham from the pres. on down, so we played around with it on 2 meter FM using AFSK tones into the mike jack until something new came along. Other than just to see if it WOULD work, nothing more was ever done with it. 73, Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2021 1:04 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key I don't see that as being realistic. Per the normal definition of a Morse "word" being the word "paris", 300 wpm means each dit would be no longer than 4 msec. As best I can recall, the rise and fall of the K3 keying waveform are each around 2.5 msec. I'm not at all an expert, but I suspect most digital signal processing techniques would find that hard to differentiate. 73, Dave AB7E On 2/6/2021 8:01 AM, Kurt Theis wrote: > Greetings list! > > I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an > answer, so I'll try here. > I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new > oscillators, serial 8xxx) when using a manual cw key plugged into the > KEY jack on the back of the radio. > > I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so > that won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX > switch, and keyed via the KEY jack. > > I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pin...@erols.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
I don't see that as being realistic. Per the normal definition of a Morse "word" being the word "paris", 300 wpm means each dit would be no longer than 4 msec. As best I can recall, the rise and fall of the K3 keying waveform are each around 2.5 msec. I'm not at all an expert, but I suspect most digital signal processing techniques would find that hard to differentiate. 73, Dave AB7E On 2/6/2021 8:01 AM, Kurt Theis wrote: Greetings list! I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an answer, so I'll try here. I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new oscillators, serial 8xxx) when using a manual cw key plugged into the KEY jack on the back of the radio. I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so that won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX switch, and keyed via the KEY jack. I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
I designed a memory keyer in the mid-80's. Had a ridiculous speed range. Found out the meteor scatter folks were buying them. They would program a memory at normal speed, ramp the speed up, and use it for short bursts on CW during a meteor operation. Receiver would record it on tape, slow it down to decode. I expect that is all done by computer these days. :>) cheers dink, n7wa On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 9:05 AM David Bunte wrote: > Kurt - > > 300 wpm is so far beyond any speed I am aware of a human copying that I > never gave that issue any thought... and few folks I know can send good CW > above 40 ish wpm with a hand key, so I doubt if many folks have given that > any thought. I will be interested to see what answers you get... and am > curious as to why you want to know? Just curious or do you have a need to > do that kind of speed with a hand key? > > Dave - K9FN > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM Kurt Theis wrote: > > > Greetings list! > > > > I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an answer, > so > > I'll try here. > > I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new oscillators, > > serial 8xxx) > > when using a manual cw key plugged into the KEY jack on the back of the > > radio. > > > > I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so that > > won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX switch, > > and keyed via the KEY jack. > > > > I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? > > > > -- > > theis.k...@gmail.com > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to mwd...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Maximum CW speed from manual key
Kurt - 300 wpm is so far beyond any speed I am aware of a human copying that I never gave that issue any thought... and few folks I know can send good CW above 40 ish wpm with a hand key, so I doubt if many folks have given that any thought. I will be interested to see what answers you get... and am curious as to why you want to know? Just curious or do you have a need to do that kind of speed with a hand key? Dave - K9FN On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM Kurt Theis wrote: > Greetings list! > > I searched the archives and other sources, but haven't found an answer, so > I'll try here. > I'm looking to find the maximum cw speed on my K3 (with new oscillators, > serial 8xxx) > when using a manual cw key plugged into the KEY jack on the back of the > radio. > > I don't mean the internal keyer, or memories. I'm not using QSK, so that > won't be an issue. The K3 is put into TX mode via an external TX switch, > and keyed via the KEY jack. > > I'm hoping for speeds in excess of 300 WPM. Possible? > > -- > theis.k...@gmail.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to dpbu...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
