Re: [Elecraft] K-Pod data cable

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

Refer to the K-Pod manual.

You must cut one of the wires to use with the K-Pod.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/4/2019 5:55 PM, Jim N7US wrote:

Is the K-Pod's data cable a standard data cable?  I'd like to use one that
is a bit longer than the stock cable so am wondering if I can just
substitute a standard one.

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Lyle Johnson]

The KPOD does not use I2C.

It comes with a very short cable for good reasons.

Increasing the length somewhat is probably OK.  Increasing it a lot is 
probably a very bad idea.


"Just because you can doesn't mean you should" comes to mind.

73,

Lyle KK7P



It is likely that the interface used by the K-Pod is the I2C bus


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Bill Frantz]

I read "short distance..." after sending my stuff. I think you 
are correct about the I2C electrical connection, but I still 
think Elecraft needs a box to box communication protocol which 
allows multi-masters. USB would do, but probably isn't the only 
choice. Ethernet?


There is a question of just how much distance needs to be 
supported. If you have your KPA500 at the base of your antenna, 
that is quite a distance, on the other hand, you probably don't 
need to control you K3 from there.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/16/17 at 8:23 PM, wes_n...@triconet.org (Wes Stewart) wrote:


Bill,

I dunno.  I'm an RF guy and this uProcessor stuff makes my eyes glaze over.

That said, your own reference says in part: "short-distance, 
intra-board communication." It seems to me that the problems 
seen are related to interconnections between the K3 and the 
K-Pod. And it seems the longer, the worser.


As I understand it, and I could very well be totally wrong, a 
couple of micro-controller pins are brought out to an 
unshielded connector without any buffering or filtering.  From 
that point the environment is anyone's guess.  The only reason 
that there isn't one of Jim Brown's Pin 1 problems, is pin 1 
isn't used :-)


Wes  N7WS


On 1/16/2017 8:08 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
It is likely that the interface used by the K-Pod is the I2C 
bus , a very commonly 
used bus in the chip world. I use it to connect the real-time 
clock board to my BeagleBone Black board.


I2C is a 2 way, multi-master bus protocol that might be ideal 
for tying the ever-growing collection of Elecraft devices.


We would really like to send commands from whatever device 
we're using, whether it is the controls of the K3, a keyboard 
attached to a P3, the panel of a KPA500, or the K-Pod. While 
USB could support this kind of network, I2C is much simpler 
and cheaper. RS232, as a point to point protocol, really 
shouldn't be considered.


73 Bill AE6JV


---
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408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Wes Stewart]

Bill,

I dunno.  I'm an RF guy and this uProcessor stuff makes my eyes glaze over.

That said, your own reference says in part: "short-distance, intra-board 
communication." It seems to me that the problems seen are related to 
interconnections between the K3 and the K-Pod. And it seems the longer, the worser.


As I understand it, and I could very well be totally wrong, a couple of 
micro-controller pins are brought out to an unshielded connector without any 
buffering or filtering.  From that point the environment is anyone's guess.  The 
only reason that there isn't one of Jim Brown's Pin 1 problems, is pin 1 isn't 
used :-)


Wes  N7WS


On 1/16/2017 8:08 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
It is likely that the interface used by the K-Pod is the I2C bus 
, a very commonly used bus in the chip 
world. I use it to connect the real-time clock board to my BeagleBone Black 
board.


I2C is a 2 way, multi-master bus protocol that might be ideal for tying the 
ever-growing collection of Elecraft devices.


We would really like to send commands from whatever device we're using, 
whether it is the controls of the K3, a keyboard attached to a P3, the panel 
of a KPA500, or the K-Pod. While USB could support this kind of network, I2C 
is much simpler and cheaper. RS232, as a point to point protocol, really 
shouldn't be considered.


73 Bill AE6JV 


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Bill Frantz]

It is likely that the interface used by the K-Pod is the I2C bus 
, a very commonly used 
bus in the chip world. I use it to connect the real-time clock 
board to my BeagleBone Black board.


I2C is a 2 way, multi-master bus protocol that might be ideal 
for tying the ever-growing collection of Elecraft devices.


We would really like to send commands from whatever device we're 
using, whether it is the controls of the K3, a keyboard attached 
to a P3, the panel of a KPA500, or the K-Pod. While USB could 
support this kind of network, I2C is much simpler and cheaper. 
RS232, as a point to point protocol, really shouldn't be considered.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/16/17 at 4:38 PM, wes_n...@triconet.org (Wes Stewart) wrote:

But this thread and others---IMHO of course---exposes a missed 
opportunity.  Instead of this Mickey Mouse way of writing a 
limited number of macros, that have to be sent to the K3 and 
stored, only to be executed by a K-Pod over a dubious 
interface, the macros should simply be saved in the K-Pod in 
the first place and sent via USB and/or RS232.


---
Bill Frantz| "The only thing we have to   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | fear is fear itself." - FDR  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I believe MCLR is used to put the PIC (microcontroller) into programming mode
I'm an Atmel guy so I'm not much up on PICs

  From: Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable
   
That's the way to do it, Jim

I spent some hours pouring over the docs and MCLR is NOT used in this
implementation.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 1/16/2017 5:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> If I were to make up an extension using CAT5/6, I would use one pair
> for PGD, another for PGC, and the other two for VCC5, tying the four
> returns of each pair together and wiring it to Ground. I'm taking it
> for granted that MCLR is really unused.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Mon,1/16/2017 10:10 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
>> A little info for those wanting to make longer cables
>>
>>  As I understand it the Elecraft connector is a Modified MPLAB IDC 2
>> In-Circut Programming connector
>>
>> Here are the pin outs as I read them
>>    1  Unused    - MCLR, Low to reset CPU
>>    2  +5 vDC    - VCC5
>>    3  Ground    - VSS
>>    4  Data      - PGD
>>    5  Clock    - PGC
>>    6  +5 vDC    - VCC5
>>
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Wes Stewart]

Hi Fred (I have one of your books BTW)

Save your money.  When I said. "As I've written before", what I had said earlier 
was:


"I saw a similar problem.  Only tapping a button appeared to send the command to 
the K3 but the K3 failed to respond.  For example, I had my K-Pod set up to use 
a tap of F5 to invoke M1, where my call was stored.  Tapping F5 would result in 
"MSG 1" showing up in the VFO B space on the display but M1 was not activated.  
(Tony G6GLP) has also reported this problem.  Tapping M1 on the K3 works every 
time."


Read the last sentence.  Additionally, there are other messages in Bank 2 so 
something should have been sent.


But this thread and others---IMHO of course---exposes a missed opportunity.  
Instead of this Mickey Mouse way of writing a limited number of macros, that 
have to be sent to the K3 and stored, only to be executed by a K-Pod over a 
dubious interface, the macros should simply be saved in the K-Pod in the first 
place and sent via USB and/or RS232.


Wes  N7WS

On 1/16/2017 3:43 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

  2) I have Macro 13 (tap F5) set to activate MSG 1 (SWT 21)  As I've written
before, many times, tapping this button resulted in "MSG1" displayed on the
radio but no message was transmitted.

Remember there are two banks of memories.  I'll bet the Macro label is MSG1 
(which is displayed when the macro is executing) but you are in one of the 
banks that doesn't have the message programmed into it.  To switch banks, hold 
the REC key.  Unfortunately that is a toggle so you can't hold it in a macro 
and have to be in Bank 1 or Bank 2 deterministically.

Cheers,
Fred KE7X



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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Clay Autery]

That's the way to do it, Jim

I spent some hours pouring over the docs and MCLR is NOT used in this
implementation.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 1/16/2017 5:01 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> If I were to make up an extension using CAT5/6, I would use one pair
> for PGD, another for PGC, and the other two for VCC5, tying the four
> returns of each pair together and wiring it to Ground. I'm taking it
> for granted that MCLR is really unused.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Mon,1/16/2017 10:10 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
>> A little info for those wanting to make longer cables
>>
>>   As I understand it the Elecraft connector is a Modified MPLAB IDC 2
>> In-Circut Programming connector
>>
>> Here are the pin outs as I read them
>>1   Unused- MCLR, Low to reset CPU
>>2   +5 vDC- VCC5
>>3   Ground- VSS
>>4   Data  - PGD
>>5   Clock - PGC
>>6   +5 vDC- VCC5
>>
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Jean-François Ménard]

You read my mind Jim! :-) :-)

Best 73 de Jeff | VA2SS 

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Jeff | VA2SS
Jean-François Ménard

jean-francois.men...@va2ss.com 
www.VA2SS.com 

Membre de / Member of :
ARRL / AMSAT / QRP ARCI / FISTS / SKCC / MICHIGAN QRP CLUB

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Message sent from my portable device.

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Jim Brown]

If I were to make up an extension using CAT5/6, I would use one pair for 
PGD, another for PGC, and the other two for VCC5, tying the four returns 
of each pair together and wiring it to Ground. I'm taking it for granted 
that MCLR is really unused.


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,1/16/2017 10:10 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

A little info for those wanting to make longer cables

  As I understand it the Elecraft connector is a Modified MPLAB IDC 2 In-Circut 
Programming connector

Here are the pin outs as I read them
   1   Unused- MCLR, Low to reset CPU
   2   +5 vDC- VCC5
   3   Ground- VSS
   4   Data  - PGD
   5   Clock - PGC
   6   +5 vDC- VCC5

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Sometimes it is not easy to orient the connector correctly to be sure you are 
clipping the right wire so we included a photo of the 6P6C connector in 
Appendix B of the KPOD owner's manual clearly identifying pin 1 (page 19 of the 
Rev H KPOD Owner's manual). 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill 
Frantz
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 12:59 PM
To: NOEL POULIN
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

Yesterday I built a 5 foot long cable using 6P6C connectors and some telephone 
grade flat cable with pin 1 clipped at each end. 
(I identified which pin was #1 by measuring the Elecraft supplied cable.)  It 
seems to work fine, but I haven't used it enough for those little hidden 
problems to show up.

If I need to move to twisted pair to get better isolation (thanks Jim), I will 
need to identify which wires to twist together. From Harry's pin out below, it 
looks like twisting pins 3&4 (Ground and Data) as well as pins 5&6 (Clock and 
VCC5) should do the trick.

73 Bill AE6JV


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Bill Frantz]

Yesterday I built a 5 foot long cable using 6P6C connectors and 
some telephone grade flat cable with pin 1 clipped at each end. 
(I identified which pin was #1 by measuring the Elecraft 
supplied cable.)  It seems to work fine, but I haven't used it 
enough for those little hidden problems to show up.


If I need to move to twisted pair to get better isolation 
(thanks Jim), I will need to identify which wires to twist 
together. From Harry's pin out below, it looks like twisting 
pins 3&4 (Ground and Data) as well as pins 5&6 (Clock and VCC5) 
should do the trick.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/16/17 at 6:51 AM, ve2...@globetrotter.net (NOEL POULIN) wrote:

Anybody in this group, using a different length data cable 
supplied with the k-pod??The cable uses two 6P6C modular male 
connectors, and requires 5 conductors..

Elecraft supplies a 36" long cable??
I would need longer cablebut wondering if the Pod will be working 
correctly???



On 1/16/17 at 10:10 AM, elecraft@mailman.qth.net (Harry Yingst 
via Elecraft) wrote:



A little info for those wanting to make longer cables

 As I understand it the Elecraft connector is a Modified MPLAB IDC 2 In-Circut 
Programming connector

Here are the pin outs as I read them
  1   Unused    - MCLR, Low to reset CPU
  2   +5 vDC    - VCC5
  3   Ground    - VSS
  4   Data      - PGD
  5   Clock     - PGC
  6   +5 vDC    - VCC5

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

A little info for those wanting to make longer cables

 As I understand it the Elecraft connector is a Modified MPLAB IDC 2 In-Circut 
Programming connector

Here are the pin outs as I read them
  1   Unused    - MCLR, Low to reset CPU
  2   +5 vDC    - VCC5
  3   Ground    - VSS
  4   Data      - PGD
  5   Clock     - PGC
  6   +5 vDC    - VCC5

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,1/16/2017 8:42 AM, Jean-François Ménard wrote:

Experimentation here is the key…. an important part in our hobby.


And also a knowledge of fundamental concepts.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Jim Brown]

Another point. Ribbon cable is TERRIBLE for RFI susceptibility. Twisted 
pair is FAR superior IF each signals is on a pair. CAT5/6 is four 
tightly twisted pairs, 100 ohm impedance, each a different twist ratio 
to minimize crosstalk. I don't know anything about how the K-Pod uses 
that cable. For RFI, twisting is more important than shielding.


73, Jim K9YC

On Mon,1/16/2017 8:23 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

If you decide to try a
longer ribbon cable first and are not interested in making your own, buy an
RJ45 cable and F-F coupler to extend the Elecraft cable.



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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Jean-François Ménard]

Hi,

Unfortunately, something I did not mentioned in my previous post, it was 
implicite for me, but by using CAT6 cable, I was thinking about making our own 
cable and connectors to avoid using flat ribbon cable. 

The twisted part of the cable will improve communication reliability for sure. 
Noel mentioned to me that he needs a cable run approximately 25 feet long. My 
guess, this should work. But many other factors must be involved, like "how the 
station has been properly setup? », and so on. 

Experimentation here is the key…. an important part in our hobby. :-)

Best 73 de Jeff | VA2SS 
__
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Jean-François Ménard

jean-francois.men...@va2ss.com 
www.VA2SS.com 

Membre de / Member of :
ARRL / AMSAT / QRP ARCI / FISTS / SKCC / MICHIGAN QRP CLUB

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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Jeff makes an excellent point about long data cables. If you decide to try a
longer ribbon cable first and are not interested in making your own, buy an
RJ45 cable and F-F coupler to extend the Elecraft cable. Be sure to put the
Elecraft cable closest to the K3, since it does not have pin 1 connected,
and use the RJ45 cable for the rest of the run.

Let me repeat my earlier comment: Macros 1 through 8 are accessed by HOLDING
the KPOD switches for more than 1/2 second. Tapping (holding for less than
1/2 second) accesses K3 Macros 9 though 16. That might be what some of the
people experiencing "unreliable" switch behavior are doing and not getting
the reaction they expect from macros 1 through 8. 

73, Ron AC7AC


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of NOEL
POULIN
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 6:52 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

Hello,
Anybody in this group, using a different length data cable supplied with the
k-pod??The cable uses two 6P6C modular male connectors, and requires
5 conductors..
Elecraft supplies a 36" long cable??
I would need longer cablebut wondering if the Pod will be working
correctly???
Noel


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Re: [Elecraft] k-pod data cable

[Wes Stewart]

On 1/16/2017 8:31 AM, Jean-François Ménard wrote:

... But in our case here, strong RF field is involved when transmitting,

This is a station design problem beyond K-Pod wiring.
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