Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Ellipsising in AppMenu
I'd use ellipsising only for items that do not instantly accomplish the advertised action. For example, Import to library in Noise should be ellipsised because it additionally requires the user to specify the import source. Following this logic, Preferences and About should not be ellipsised because they accomplish the advertised action, i.e. take you to the advertised info or controls, without any intermediate steps. 2013/3/24 Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com I think that Preferences and About do not need ellipses as their function is quite obvious. You perfectly know what to expect when you click those. Regards, Alfredo. On 24 Mar 2013 00:55, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hrm, I thought all of our apps did that for Preferences and About. One thing I've read somewhere (perhaps another platform's HIG?) was more explicit in that if there's not really an action to be performed in the dialog, to not display the ellipsis. In fact, our own HIG are slightly more nuanced than mentioned above; they say to use an ellipsis if an *action is performed *in a new window or dialog. With the about dialog, there's arguably no action being performed. What about with Preferences? I'm up for clarifying these cases in the HIG. Fellow designers, let me know what you think. Regards, Cassidy James -- Sent from *elementary OS* http://elementaryos.org/. On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Okay, so all our apps are buggy and should be fixed? Also, what about About? 2013/3/24 Julien Spautz spautz.jul...@gmail.com Actually, the HIG says we should use ellipses for preferences: · Is performed in a new window or dialog. For example, Preferences, Report a Problem, and Customize Toolbar all use ellipses because they open a new window… http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/text/using-ellipses On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hey guys, I've notices Noise doesn't use ellipsising for AppMenu items at all: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5279564/noise-appmenu.png Import to Library requires further input from the user but it doesn't have an ellipsis. I believe this is a bug? I've looked at how other apps use ellipsising and it's mostly reasonable. The only thing that bugs me is that Preferences and About items don't have ellipses. I recall Windows just eliipsising whatever shows a dialog, but common sense suggests it's not a good idea, e.g. for About, because it doesn't require any further input from the user. I'm not sure about Preferences though. So what's our rule of thumb for ellipsising? We don't seem to have any info on the topic in the HIG. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Ellipsising in AppMenu
Sergey, That's kind of how I'm leaning. Everyone else, continue to leave feedback and I'll revisit this thread in a bit before clarifying that section of the HIG. On Mar 24, 2013 5:03 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: I'd use ellipsising only for items that do not instantly accomplish the advertised action. For example, Import to library in Noise should be ellipsised because it additionally requires the user to specify the import source. Following this logic, Preferences and About should not be ellipsised because they accomplish the advertised action, i.e. take you to the advertised info or controls, without any intermediate steps. 2013/3/24 Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com I think that Preferences and About do not need ellipses as their function is quite obvious. You perfectly know what to expect when you click those. Regards, Alfredo. On 24 Mar 2013 00:55, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hrm, I thought all of our apps did that for Preferences and About. One thing I've read somewhere (perhaps another platform's HIG?) was more explicit in that if there's not really an action to be performed in the dialog, to not display the ellipsis. In fact, our own HIG are slightly more nuanced than mentioned above; they say to use an ellipsis if an *action is performed *in a new window or dialog. With the about dialog, there's arguably no action being performed. What about with Preferences? I'm up for clarifying these cases in the HIG. Fellow designers, let me know what you think. Regards, Cassidy James -- Sent from *elementary OS* http://elementaryos.org/. On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Okay, so all our apps are buggy and should be fixed? Also, what about About? 2013/3/24 Julien Spautz spautz.jul...@gmail.com Actually, the HIG says we should use ellipses for preferences: · Is performed in a new window or dialog. For example, Preferences, Report a Problem, and Customize Toolbar all use ellipses because they open a new window… http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/text/using-ellipses On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hey guys, I've notices Noise doesn't use ellipsising for AppMenu items at all: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5279564/noise-appmenu.png Import to Library requires further input from the user but it doesn't have an ellipsis. I believe this is a bug? I've looked at how other apps use ellipsising and it's mostly reasonable. The only thing that bugs me is that Preferences and About items don't have ellipses. I recall Windows just eliipsising whatever shows a dialog, but common sense suggests it's not a good idea, e.g. for About, because it doesn't require any further input from the user. I'm not sure about Preferences though. So what's our rule of thumb for ellipsising? We don't seem to have any info on the topic in the HIG. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Background apps discussion
Any objections on this? It's about time to voice them. If not, this should be added to the relevant HIG article, http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/user-workflow/background-tasks 2013/3/22 Nishant George Agrwal nishantagrwal12...@gmail.com Okay, so the thread about Noise not complying to the HIG turned into quite a general discussion about the HIG and background application behaviour so I am creating this new thread with a better title to continue it. Here's a link to the old thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/elementary-dev-community/msg02046.html Summing up, we need to think about proper ways to create and deal with background applications, i.e, applications that don't require interaction with the user for most or a big part of the time they are running, like mail clients, IM clients, music players, microblogging apps, etc. Typically, these apps don't fit well into any one task the user is performing, so it often doesn't make sense for these applications to be bound to a particular workspace either. To this end, applications are to intelligently handle closing the window to do whatever best suits the situation. The following could be guidelines to what the app must do (this deals with the user-facing elements, not the implementation) If you'd check a specific application frequently but not in reaction to notifications it raises (e.g. group chat, even if you weren't pinged directly) or if it has to be accessible as quickly as possible while it's running (e.g. music player, to pause music), the app should display an icon in the dock while it's running. If the app is primarily brought up in reaction to a notification and if the state of the app doesn't significantly affect its usage frequency (e.g. microblogging client - if the user tweets often they'd pin it to dock anyway), it should display an icon in the dock only when there are unattended action items (e.g. new messages) along with the action item count in the dock badge. As far as implementation goes, this branch was recently merged into plank, which enables preliminary support for batches and progress bars without the need for an open window. https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/plank/launcherentry-items For hiding the window while keeping the dock icon visible, one solution would be to make better use of minimize. The following blueprint would need to be implemented: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gala/+spec/minimized-as-closed That's all folks. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Background apps discussion
Not everyone checks the list every day; for example, I'm on vacation this week and haven't had the time to sit down and flesh this out. Let's keep this discussion open a bit longer than two days. ;) On Mar 24, 2013 10:01 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Any objections on this? It's about time to voice them. If not, this should be added to the relevant HIG article, http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/user-workflow/background-tasks 2013/3/22 Nishant George Agrwal nishantagrwal12...@gmail.com Okay, so the thread about Noise not complying to the HIG turned into quite a general discussion about the HIG and background application behaviour so I am creating this new thread with a better title to continue it. Here's a link to the old thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/elementary-dev-community/msg02046.html Summing up, we need to think about proper ways to create and deal with background applications, i.e, applications that don't require interaction with the user for most or a big part of the time they are running, like mail clients, IM clients, music players, microblogging apps, etc. Typically, these apps don't fit well into any one task the user is performing, so it often doesn't make sense for these applications to be bound to a particular workspace either. To this end, applications are to intelligently handle closing the window to do whatever best suits the situation. The following could be guidelines to what the app must do (this deals with the user-facing elements, not the implementation) If you'd check a specific application frequently but not in reaction to notifications it raises (e.g. group chat, even if you weren't pinged directly) or if it has to be accessible as quickly as possible while it's running (e.g. music player, to pause music), the app should display an icon in the dock while it's running. If the app is primarily brought up in reaction to a notification and if the state of the app doesn't significantly affect its usage frequency (e.g. microblogging client - if the user tweets often they'd pin it to dock anyway), it should display an icon in the dock only when there are unattended action items (e.g. new messages) along with the action item count in the dock badge. As far as implementation goes, this branch was recently merged into plank, which enables preliminary support for batches and progress bars without the need for an open window. https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/plank/launcherentry-items For hiding the window while keeping the dock icon visible, one solution would be to make better use of minimize. The following blueprint would need to be implemented: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/gala/+spec/minimized-as-closed That's all folks. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Ellipsising in AppMenu
Yep. I think we need to update/clarify that HIG section. Best Regards, Daniel Foré El mar 24, 2013, a las 7:47 a.m., Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org escribió: Sergey, That's kind of how I'm leaning. Everyone else, continue to leave feedback and I'll revisit this thread in a bit before clarifying that section of the HIG. On Mar 24, 2013 5:03 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: I'd use ellipsising only for items that do not instantly accomplish the advertised action. For example, Import to library in Noise should be ellipsised because it additionally requires the user to specify the import source. Following this logic, Preferences and About should not be ellipsised because they accomplish the advertised action, i.e. take you to the advertised info or controls, without any intermediate steps. 2013/3/24 Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com I think that Preferences and About do not need ellipses as their function is quite obvious. You perfectly know what to expect when you click those. Regards, Alfredo. On 24 Mar 2013 00:55, Cassidy James cass...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hrm, I thought all of our apps did that for Preferences and About. One thing I've read somewhere (perhaps another platform's HIG?) was more explicit in that if there's not really an action to be performed in the dialog, to not display the ellipsis. In fact, our own HIG are slightly more nuanced than mentioned above; they say to use an ellipsis if an action is performed in a new window or dialog. With the about dialog, there's arguably no action being performed. What about with Preferences? I'm up for clarifying these cases in the HIG. Fellow designers, let me know what you think. Regards, Cassidy James -- Sent from elementary OS. On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Okay, so all our apps are buggy and should be fixed? Also, what about About? 2013/3/24 Julien Spautz spautz.jul...@gmail.com Actually, the HIG says we should use ellipses for preferences: · Is performed in a new window or dialog. For example, Preferences, Report a Problem, and Customize Toolbar all use ellipses because they open a new window… http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/text/using-ellipses On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff ser...@elementaryos.org wrote: Hey guys, I've notices Noise doesn't use ellipsising for AppMenu items at all: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5279564/noise-appmenu.png Import to Library requires further input from the user but it doesn't have an ellipsis. I believe this is a bug? I've looked at how other apps use ellipsising and it's mostly reasonable. The only thing that bugs me is that Preferences and About items don't have ellipses. I recall Windows just eliipsising whatever shows a dialog, but common sense suggests it's not a good idea, e.g. for About, because it doesn't require any further input from the user. I'm not sure about Preferences though. So what's our rule of thumb for ellipsising? We don't seem to have any info on the topic in the HIG. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff OS architect @ elementary -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
