Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Peter C. Wallace 

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 21:46:24 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

On Saturday 02 February 2019 19:51:18 Peter C. Wallace wrote:



On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 19:01:59 -0500
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Reply-To: EMC developers 
> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal
>
> On Saturday 02 February 2019 16:00:04 Andy Pugh wrote:
> > On 2 Feb 2019, at 18:13, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in
> > that case.
>
> Approx -1.8 x 10^308 to  +1.8 x 10^308
>
> Because its a double precision floating point.
>
> Are you reading the 7i76 manual or just the LinuxCNC docs?

The 7i76 manual lacks anything like such an explanation for the
spindle functions. Or has it been expanded and corrected?, I've had
the doc file I am looking at for about 3 months now.

Thanks Andy.

I just read it again, top to bottom and back up. None of this stuff is in 
it, nor is there any reference to reading the manpage for sserial.


The sserial man page has some info about the 7i76 pins


So it does, but haveing no reference to it in the doc, I hadn't read it 
until now. It also states theres a high likelyhood of its being 
permanently out of date.  And it makes zero mention that ENA and DIR 
appear to be activated ONLY when when spinout has valid non-zero data. 
That might work for a vfd but not for a pwm-servo such as Jon sells. The 
way its worded, ENA and DIR appear to be straight thru from input to 
output isolated controls, which would make them 100% useful. But because 
they aren't activated until spinout has valid non-zero data, the ENA is 
of zero use to me. That amp must be enabled, then pulsed to charge the 
gates properly before the data from the pid.out arrives at the 
pwmgen.1.value pin to start its generation of pulses. I do have a method 
worked out that should work, using the otherwise mounted for its looks, 
relay on the SainSmart BoB. Driven by p2 of the 5i25 using a special 
bitfile Peter sent me which puts a 2nd pwmgen on the P2 connector since 
the first one goes to /dev/null in the 7i76d. I may be able to get that 
wired up tomorrow, but I am making all this hookup hardware as I go. 
From a 150 foot spool of wire, and a bag of GS12-5 connectors. Darned 
near too small for these getting a little shaky old hands.





Thats not quite true, The 7I76 DIR output is a completely independent output 
bit and ENA must be present for the analog output to work, that is analog out 
is dependent on ENA but not the other way around.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 02 February 2019 19:51:18 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 19:01:59 -0500
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Reply-To: EMC developers 
> > To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal
> >
> > On Saturday 02 February 2019 16:00:04 Andy Pugh wrote:
> > > On 2 Feb 2019, at 18:13, Gene Heskett 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in
> > > that case.
> >
> > Approx -1.8 x 10^308 to  +1.8 x 10^308
> >
> > Because itÿÿs a double precision floating point.
> >
> > Are you reading the 7i76 manual or just the LinuxCNC docs?
>
> The 7i76 manual lacks anything like such an explanation for the
> spindle functions. Or has it been expanded and corrected?, I've had
> the doc file I am looking at for about 3 months now.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
I just read it again, top to bottom and back up. None of this stuff is in 
it, nor is there any reference to reading the manpage for sserial.
>
> The sserial man page has some info about the 7i76 pins

So it does, but haveing no reference to it in the doc, I hadn't read it 
until now. It also states theres a high likelyhood of its being 
permanently out of date.  And it makes zero mention that ENA and DIR 
appear to be activated ONLY when when spinout has valid non-zero data. 
That might work for a vfd but not for a pwm-servo such as Jon sells. The 
way its worded, ENA and DIR appear to be straight thru from input to 
output isolated controls, which would make them 100% useful. But because 
they aren't activated until spinout has valid non-zero data, the ENA is 
of zero use to me. That amp must be enabled, then pulsed to charge the 
gates properly before the data from the pid.out arrives at the 
pwmgen.1.value pin to start its generation of pulses. I do have a method 
worked out that should work, using the otherwise mounted for its looks, 
relay on the SainSmart BoB. Driven by p2 of the 5i25 using a special 
bitfile Peter sent me which puts a 2nd pwmgen on the P2 connector since 
the first one goes to /dev/null in the 7i76d. I may be able to get that 
wired up tomorrow, but I am making all this hookup hardware as I go. 
From a 150 foot spool of wire, and a bag of GS12-5 connectors. Darned 
near too small for these getting a little shaky old hands.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Peter C. Wallace 

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 19:01:59 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

On Saturday 02 February 2019 16:00:04 Andy Pugh wrote:



> On 2 Feb 2019, at 18:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in that
> case.

Approx -1.8 x 10^308 to  +1.8 x 10^308

Because it??s a double precision floating point.

Are you reading the 7i76 manual or just the LinuxCNC docs?

The 7i76 manual lacks anything like such an explanation for the spindle 
functions. Or has it been expanded and corrected?, I've had the doc file 
I am looking at for about 3 months now.


Thanks Andy.


The sserial man page has some info about the 7i76 pins






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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 02 February 2019 16:00:04 Andy Pugh wrote:

> > On 2 Feb 2019, at 18:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in that
> > case.
>
> Approx -1.8 x 10^308 to  +1.8 x 10^308
>
> Because it’s a double precision floating point.
>
> Are you reading the 7i76 manual or just the LinuxCNC docs?
>
The 7i76 manual lacks anything like such an explanation for the spindle 
functions. Or has it been expanded and corrected?, I've had the doc file 
I am looking at for about 3 months now.

Thanks Andy.
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 02 February 2019 11:00:21 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 07:37:11 -0500
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Reply-To: EMC developers 
> > To: emc-developers 
> > Subject: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal
> >
> > Can someone please explain to me, who is used to using a spinx1 for
> > the pwmgen output to analog voltage conversion, just how in tuncket
> > the 7i76 works? I just now found out, when I tried to redirect a
> > 5i25 pwmgen output pin and found from the error  msg as it died,
> > that
> > hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout is a float input!
> >
> > In Other Words, pwmgen.0. in the 5i25 is driveing /dev/null.  So I
> > fed the hm2_5i25.0.pwmgen.0.value to hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout and can
> > now read it there with a halmeter.  But I've no clue what sort of a
> > float it wants to use the full voltage range of tb4's spindle- to
> > tb4's spindle+ at tb4's spindle-out.
> >
> > The document on the 7i76 seems to be totally mute on this. Can some
> > who knows please explain?
> >
> > To say I am bumfuzzled at this revelation is putting it mildly if
> > this does indeed bring the ENA and DIR outputs on tb4 to life, which
> > are not responding with spinout at 0.. I'll have to
> > recalibrate scales and gains at several locations in nearly a 800
> > LOC hal file.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
> The 7I76 spindle output should not be too different from a PWM setup
> There are three pins related to spindle control
>
> 7i76.x.x.spindir
> 7i76.x.x.spinena
> 7i76.x.x.spinout
>
> and 5 parameters
>
> 7i76.x.x.spindir-invert
> 7i76.x.x.spinena-invert
> 7i76.x.x.spinout-maxlim
> 7i76.x.x.spinout-minlim
> 7i76.x.x.spinout-scalemax
>
Aha! Thanks Peter, due to an Oldtimers attack, I never thought to check 
the halmeter's params menu. Now it all falls into place.  Those are 
relatively small numbers, set in the .ini file for the G0704, excerpt 
minlim which doesn't apply with a pmdc motor, and the way I'm wiring it 
I don't think the inverts will be needed.

However, I'll need an ENA active separately on the G0704. Can that be 
done by inverting a field output? In the sequence of applying signals to 
srart and boot the pwm-servo, I need the +12 volt on its enable before 
its booted, in order for the boot to work.  And since its a d suffix, 
ENA- looks like the only way.
>
> Typically the maxlim and scalemax parameters are set to the maximum
> spindle RPM, and the minlim parameter is set to 0. This scales the
> analog voltage so full scale RPM is full scale voltage (100% of SPIN+)
>
> The 7I76 output is unipolar so normally its linked to motions spindle
> speed speed-out-abs pin

I think I have something else in that path due the the head gear shift in 
the G0704, but I get the idea now.  There's a pid.s in that setup with 
buckets of Pgain. Not needed in the vfd version since it will never cut 
threads anyway. So I'm not 100% convinced I need a spindle encoder on 
the 6040.

Anyway, I am slowly wiring it up.  And finding the GS12-5 connectors are 
a bit small for my getting shaky hands to reliably solder to. But I'm 
getting there. Dinner got in the way for tonight though. And I could use 
a longer backshell, but thats solvable on the next one. Timeing I'll 
have to check with halscope.  Fun & games. What I really need is an ENA 
I can drive ahead of time, a millisecond or so, or possibly recompile 
the boot module for a much longer chain of start pulses.  That might do 
it.  But next is getting the spindle power supply startup sequence wired 
up. That may require I work over a length of 1/2" conduit to fashion a 
13mm socket on one end of a foot of it so I can reach in under the pcb's 
and tighten the nountings nuts.

Thanks for the help. 

> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Andy Pugh 


> On 2 Feb 2019, at 18:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in that 
> case.

Approx -1.8 x 10^308 to  +1.8 x 10^308

Because it’s a double precision floating point. 

Are you reading the 7i76 manual or just the LinuxCNC docs?





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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Saturday 02 February 2019 10:19:48 Andy Pugh wrote:

> > On 2 Feb 2019, at 13:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > Can someone please explain to me, who is used to using a spinx1 for
> > the pwmgen output to analog voltage conversion, just how in tuncket
> > the 7i76 works?
>
> The 7i76 has a (serial controlled) digital potentiometer.  You just
> pass it a the spindle speed you want and the two resistances change.
> You wire it exactly like a potentiometer and send it a number.
>
It would be very, very, very, nice if that was mentioned in the docs, 
Andy. Not a dot for an i or the crossbar of at. So I automaticly assumed 
it was a spinx1 in function.

But whats the range of spindle speed requests that are valid in that 
case.  I currently, for testing, have the motors idle speed set to 2, 
faster than the normal .1 that my hal file uses when neither gear shift 
switch is closed because they aren't wired up yet. This results in 
nearly full scale for a value of 49 sent to the pwm, giving a 99.9% duty 
cycle at the pwmgen output because the pid.s.Pgain is 20.  And on the 
GO704 using one of Jons pwm-servo's, I will/am (not wired yet) using the 
pwmgen.1.output sent to p2-gpio-26 as the pwm for that servo amp. But I 
still need functioning ENA- and DIR- so I've got to feed spinout 
something too else they don't work. Whats currently coming out of 
pwmgen.1 has already been calibrated for the GO704 and its pwm-servo 
driving the spindle.

But on the 6040, with its bastard 120 volt vfd, I'll need this 7i76's 
spindle setup from tb4-1-2-3.  But surely it can't deal with being sent 
a value of 24,000, or even half that at 12,000 for half speed of that 
spindle. For that to work there has to be a scale converting the rpms 
requested to something that ranges from 0 top 10 volts at the equ to the 
arm of the pot at tb4-2, where 1 and 3 are the com and 10+ or 12+ volt 
lines from the vfd.

So how is that "scaleing" between 24k rpms when the motor is to be wide 
open, and a full scale output of 10 volts to the vfd to be accomplished 
when I build this same interface for the 6040?  I rx'd the 2nd 7i76d 
yesterday Peter, but haven't unpacked it yet. One track mind strikes 
again. Oldtimers?

==

Much of the same hal file will be used, with only the gearshift stuff 
excised since that spindle has no gearshift. Nor will it have an encoder 
unless I can rig an IR optical off the wrench flats of the motors chuck.  
That will have to co-exist with the tool changer wrench if I build the 
hack-a-day tool changer. But I've already found the needed carousel spin 
is at least a full turn just to break a collet loose with the collets I 
have and only one nut so far, so thats discouraging. But its still a 
cute idea. Perhaps a ratcheting motion could be programmed, turn the nut 
1/3rd turn, lift it out of the socket, rewind the carousel and xy, drop 
it back into the gator socket, turn it another 3rd turn, wash rinse 
repeat as needed. Reverse to tighten but spring load the holding wrench 
away from an "its tight switch" so we don't loose the homes from 
slipping the motors a step or 70. Perhaps 2 switches in case its too 
tight, in which case leave the locking wrench in place, but lift it 
clear of the socket so a hand wrench can be used on the nut to break it 
free.  Use an M30 pause for that.  On a 6040, its big enough the 
carousel could have 8 pockets, and the larger diameter would give the 
motors a better chance of getting it done with less stress on the motors 
and screws.

Thinking out loud...  And all dependant on getting the vfd to respond to 
the DIR- to work, so the motor could be used to drop the nut and pick up 
the next one. In fact, it runs in reverse just fine if its 
miss-configured. I found that quite by accident while trying to make it 
work from the pc with only a 5 volt pwm, but it seems to need a 10 volt 
pwm, applied to a different input terminal.  But thats another subject 
line for Later. :)

Thank you Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-developers] Stepconf questionure or bug?

2019-02-02 Thread Joe Hildreth 
Hi Folks,

I am sorry, I was incorrect in my statement that you cannot enter an address 
for the port.  The entry field is there to do it, it just does not have a label 
indicating that is what the input field is for.  I am sorry for any confusion I 
may have created.

Joe

- On Feb 1, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I have been doing a series of tutorials for newbies to LinuxCNC. The current 
> one
> I am working on is using stepconf. While using this software, you can select 
> if
> you have one or two parallel ports installed in the machine. I have selected
> two.
> 
> The first parallel port dialog allows you to enter either an enumerated port 
> or
> the address of the port in the field. All work as expected.
> 
> The second parallel port dialog, allows you to select if the port will be used
> as either input or output, but you cannot enter the hardware address of the
> port. When the hal file is written, it assumes the next enumerated port in the
> list for this second port.
> 
> I am not a programmer, but it seems to me that I should have the ability to 
> add
> the address of the port.
> 
> The documentation for the second port reads, "You may specify the address as a
> hexadecimal (often 0x378) or as Linux’s default port number (probably 1)." So
> this looks like an oversight?
> 
> I am putting the video tutorial on hold for now. Can this be fixed, or should 
> I
> explain these details to the novice user.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joe Hildreth
> 
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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Peter C. Wallace 

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 07:37:11 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: EMC developers 
To: emc-developers 
Subject: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

Can someone please explain to me, who is used to using a spinx1 for the
pwmgen output to analog voltage conversion, just how in tuncket the 7i76
works? I just now found out, when I tried to redirect a 5i25 pwmgen
output pin and found from the error  msg as it died, that
hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout is a float input!

In Other Words, pwmgen.0. in the 5i25 is driveing /dev/null.  So I fed
the hm2_5i25.0.pwmgen.0.value to hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout and can now
read it there with a halmeter.  But I've no clue what sort of a float it
wants to use the full voltage range of tb4's spindle- to tb4's spindle+
at tb4's spindle-out.

The document on the 7i76 seems to be totally mute on this. Can some who
knows please explain?

To say I am bumfuzzled at this revelation is putting it mildly if this
does indeed bring the ENA and DIR outputs on tb4 to life, which are not
responding with spinout at 0.. I'll have to recalibrate scales
and gains at several locations in nearly a 800 LOC hal file.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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The 7I76 spindle output should not be too different from a PWM setup
There are three pins related to spindle control

7i76.x.x.spindir
7i76.x.x.spinena
7i76.x.x.spinout

and 5 parameters

7i76.x.x.spindir-invert
7i76.x.x.spinena-invert
7i76.x.x.spinout-maxlim
7i76.x.x.spinout-minlim
7i76.x.x.spinout-scalemax


Typically the maxlim and scalemax parameters are set to the maximum spindle 
RPM, and the minlim parameter is set to 0. This scales the analog voltage so 
full scale RPM is full scale voltage (100% of SPIN+)


The 7I76 output is unipolar so normally its linked to motions spindle speed 
speed-out-abs pin


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Andy Pugh 



> On 2 Feb 2019, at 13:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> Can someone please explain to me, who is used to using a spinx1 for the 
> pwmgen output to analog voltage conversion, just how in tuncket the 7i76 
> works?

The 7i76 has a (serial controlled) digital potentiometer.  You just pass it a 
the spindle speed you want and the two resistances change. You wire it exactly 
like a potentiometer and send it a number. 

The Spinx1 takes a PWM input and does much the same at the output. 

Wiring a 7i76 to a spinx1 is unlikely to work. 



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[Emc-developers] 7i76 vs spinout signal

2019-02-02 Thread Gene Heskett 
Can someone please explain to me, who is used to using a spinx1 for the 
pwmgen output to analog voltage conversion, just how in tuncket the 7i76 
works? I just now found out, when I tried to redirect a 5i25 pwmgen 
output pin and found from the error  msg as it died, that 
hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout is a float input!

In Other Words, pwmgen.0. in the 5i25 is driveing /dev/null.  So I fed 
the hm2_5i25.0.pwmgen.0.value to hm2_5i25.0.7i76.spinout and can now 
read it there with a halmeter.  But I've no clue what sort of a float it 
wants to use the full voltage range of tb4's spindle- to tb4's spindle+ 
at tb4's spindle-out.

The document on the 7i76 seems to be totally mute on this. Can some who 
knows please explain?

To say I am bumfuzzled at this revelation is putting it mildly if this 
does indeed bring the ENA and DIR outputs on tb4 to life, which are not 
responding with spinout at 0.. I'll have to recalibrate scales 
and gains at several locations in nearly a 800 LOC hal file.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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