Re: EMI guard bands
Thanks to all who responded. Yes, Ralph Showers. I kept the response from him for the longest time. But, after several program and hard drive crashes, it's lost. Thanks again. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: RJ45 filtered connector
Hi Reg, Trying to find a bulkhead RJ45 (shielded filtered) connector for an EMC chamber may prove to be an impossible task as, IMHO, this type of connector might be fairly fragile and hard to install for such use. To that end, I will offer some suggestions: 1. Talk to chamber manufacturers. I am quite sure that they would know about such a connector if one exists. 2. A bulkhead mounted DB25 connector might work. These can come filtered, however, the filtering involved should not impact the communication speeds you will be working with. To connect to standard ethernet cables, use 2x(DB25-RJ45) adapters (1 inside 1 outside). The whole thing would be connected as Outside Cable - Adapter - Bulkhead DB Connector - Adapter - Inside Cable. These adapters are quite common and shouldn't need to be filtered as the DB connectors would do that and if extra filtering is needed, a simple clip-on ferrite might be all that's needed (the ferrite might even be put inside the adapter backshell). And, the DB25 connector might be used for other interfaces during testing, as well. 3. You shouldn't need any connector if your EMC chamber has a ventilation opening. Just fit a cable thru the opening and put enough ferrite around the cable (inside and outside) to suppress any common mode interference. These suggestions are intended to get all those neurons firing to think of some connector alternatives to the one you're seeking. I hope this helps. Comments anyone? Bring on the flames. :-) Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com JK15@exchange.SanDiego CA.NCR.comTo: rhe...@vicon-cctv.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordomo.iSubject: RE: RJ45 filtered connector eee.org 12/20/01 12:34 PM Please respond to JK15 Reg, Look at Regal Electronics at http://www.regalusa.com. They have board mounted RJ-45 that have gasketing appropriate for a panel. Jim Jim Knighten, Ph.D. Teradata, a Division of NCRhttp://www.ncr.com 17095 Via Del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 USA Tel: 858-485-2537 Fax: 858-485-3788 jim.knigh...@ncr.com -Original Message- From: Reginald Henry [mailto:rhe...@vicon-cctv.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:51 AM To:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at:
RE: RJ45 filtered connector
so if we called it an RJ-48C, would that be better ?? At 04:56 PM 12/20/2001 , John Shinn wrote: Although it may suprise some, and I may get flak, but an RJ45 connector is an specific configuration used exclusively for a programmable data connection. It has a specific wiring configuration. The RJ stands for Registered Jack. This is an FCC designation of that specific configuration. There is nothing against using an 8-pin modular plug/jack for 10Base-Tor 100Base-T, or even microphone inputs to my Ham radio, but do not call it a RJ45. Now, yes, there are several vendors that produce shielded and filtered 8-pin modular jacks. I remember using them and working with several vendors a few years ago, but I would suggest you look at the website or catalogs of the major connector suppliers. John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab. Operations. Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Reginald Henry Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:51 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. Bill Owsley, ows...@cisco.com 919) 392-8341 Compliance Engineer Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road POB 14987 RTP. NC. 27709 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMI guard bands
I beleive his name is Dr. Ralph Showers. A very nice fellow. John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab. Operations Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Doug McKean Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: Re: EMI guard bands Historical bit of news ... I asked a similar question a couple of years ago here and was referred to a gentleman who was in the writing of the original FCC limits. Can't remember the man's name but he's a professor at Univ. Penn. if I remember correctly. Anywho, the answer I got back from him was that the limits were empirically derived in reference to interfering with television signals. So, the worst case (which turned out to be Class B) was a tv back to back across a wall from another device in an apartment complex. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: RJ45 filtered connector
Hey Henry et al, Amphenol makes a RJ-45 10/100 Base T modular jack (RJ mag series : RJMG-63-xx-xx-01) w/ built in common mode chokes and isolation transformers, as well as other jacks. It also meets the NEBS flammability criteria. Visit their web site at www.rjmag.com or call them at 416 291 4401 Tx Pete Fong Compliance Engineer Reginald Henry wrote: To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. attachment: pfong.vcf
RE: RJ45 filtered connector
You might try: www.conec.com www.midcom-inc.com www.regalusa.com Regards and Happy Holidays! Bill Fleury -Original Message- From: Reginald Henry [mailto:rhe...@vicon-cctv.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:51 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: RJ45 filtered connector
Although it may suprise some, and I may get flak, but an RJ45 connector is an specific configuration used exclusively for a programmable data connection. It has a specific wiring configuration. The RJ stands for Registered Jack. This is an FCC designation of that specific configuration. There is nothing against using an 8-pin modular plug/jack for 10Base-Tor 100Base-T, or even microphone inputs to my Ham radio, but do not call it a RJ45. Now, yes, there are several vendors that produce shielded and filtered 8-pin modular jacks. I remember using them and working with several vendors a few years ago, but I would suggest you look at the website or catalogs of the major connector suppliers. John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab. Operations. Sanmina-SCI -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Reginald Henry Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:51 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: warranty - guarantee
If you take a look in Websters (http://www.m-w.com); warranty: a usually written guarantee of the integrity of a product and of the maker's responsibility for the repair or replacement of defective parts guarantee: an assurance of the quality of or of the length of use to be expected from a product offered for sale often with a promise of reimbursement I do not think you will find any other official defintions that will expand much on the expectations of the two terms. I see them used interchangeably. Like so much these days you need to read the fine print so determine what you are getting and a judge decides the ambiguities. EX: Took a look at the Warranty page in a user manual on my desk. The hardware is warranted to be free from defects in workmanship and materials while the software is warranted to perform in conformance to specifications. Dave Clement -Original Message- From: Stig Jorgensen [mailto:jorgen...@skyskan.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:33 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: warranty - guarantee Hi All, Having seen mixed use of language i.e. Oxford English verses US English. It some times created miss understandings. I may be out in left field, but warranty is not the same as guarantee. Does EU have a definition for Warrantee and Guarantee ? I have seen the difference in the US retail industry where warrantees and guarantees are used as a selling tools. A Warranty is covering events that happened behind the factory door, use of faulty material and workmanship etc. The ware and tare factor through the consumers use is not covered under a warranty. This becomes clear when you read the expanded warranty statement that usually is enclosed with the product. It limits the manufacturers obligation to correct faulty material and faulty manufacturing process. A Guarantee cover what the Warranty covers plus it also assures that the product will for a given length of time, perform, function, as per specification of the manufacturer. You will see statements like performing as new equipment or perform as per manufacturer's specification. Thus the effect from usage is covered. When you read the explanation in the warranty statement, that comes with the product, it comes clear that the limit of the responsibility of the manufacturer covers only items under their control. The risk component outside a Warranty is treated as an insurance risk and its cost is calculated accordingly. Sincerely Stig jorgen...@skyskan.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
warranty - guarantee
Hi All, Having seen mixed use of language i.e. Oxford English verses US English. It some times created miss understandings. I may be out in left field, but warranty is not the same as guarantee. Does EU have a definition for Warrantee and Guarantee ? I have seen the difference in the US retail industry where warrantees and guarantees are used as a selling tools. A Warranty is covering events that happened behind the factory door, use of faulty material and workmanship etc. The ware and tare factor through the consumers use is not covered under a warranty. This becomes clear when you read the expanded warranty statement that usually is enclosed with the product. It limits the manufacturers obligation to correct faulty material and faulty manufacturing process. A Guarantee cover what the Warranty covers plus it also assures that the product will for a given length of time, perform, function, as per specification of the manufacturer. You will see statements like performing as new equipment or perform as per manufacturer's specification. Thus the effect from usage is covered. When you read the explanation in the warranty statement, that comes with the product, it comes clear that the limit of the responsibility of the manufacturer covers only items under their control. The risk component outside a Warranty is treated as an insurance risk and its cost is calculated accordingly. Sincerely Stig jorgen...@skyskan.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: RE:RJ45 filtered connector
Did you see Regal Electronics? They make filtered RJ45 connectors If not, try Regal Electronics 408 988 2288 4251 Burton Dr Santa Clara, CA 95054 might have a website around www.regalusa.com A technical contact is Bill Kunz - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 619 North First St, San Jose, CA 95112 -Original Message- From: Reginald Henry rhe...@vicon-cctv.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, December 20, 2001 11:25 AM Subject: RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: RJ45 filtered connector
Reg, Look at Regal Electronics at http://www.regalusa.com. They have board mounted RJ-45 that have gasketing appropriate for a panel. Jim Jim Knighten, Ph.D. Teradata, a Division of NCR http://www.ncr.com 17095 Via Del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 USA Tel: 858-485-2537 Fax: 858-485-3788 jim.knigh...@ncr.com -Original Message- From: Reginald Henry [mailto:rhe...@vicon-cctv.com] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:51 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE:RJ45 filtered connector To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EMI guard bands
Historical bit of news ... I asked a similar question a couple of years ago here and was referred to a gentleman who was in the writing of the original FCC limits. Can't remember the man's name but he's a professor at Univ. Penn. if I remember correctly. Anywho, the answer I got back from him was that the limits were empirically derived in reference to interfering with television signals. So, the worst case (which turned out to be Class B) was a tv back to back across a wall from another device in an apartment complex. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE:RJ45 filtered connector
To All, Can anyone out there tell me where I would be able to purchase a fully shielded and filter RJ45 connector that is Bulkhead mountable. The RJ45 must be able to handle data rates from 10Base T to 100Base T I will be performing CE testing in the chamber so it must be bulkhead mountable ! Thanks and Happy Holidays to YOU ALL ! Reg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Designing Electronic Equipment for ESD Immunity-- Annotated Bibliography
A recent query on this forum asked about the relative effectiveness of capacitors versus diodes for Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) protection. These are just two of over 220 topics covered in my article, Designing Electronic Equipment for ESD Immunity, which I wrote for Printed Circuit Design magazine: * Part I athttp://www.pcdmag.com/story/OEG20010928S0122 (July 2001 issue). * Part II athttp://www.pcdmag.com/redux/0701_esd.html (posted on www.pcdmag.com in November 2001). I had hopes that the magazine would put the bibliography for the article on their website, so that it would be freely available to anyone who needed it. So far they haven't. But Lexmark has given me an opportunity (and some substantial incentives) to take a Pre-Retirement Leave of Absence, which is supposed to start in February. One of my projects, to keep myself active and out of trouble, is creating a website on Robust Electronic Design-- how to develop electronic equipment and electronic products that: 1. Work safely and reliably. 2. Can be manufactured economically. 3. May be marketed and used worldwide. 4. Can be easily adapted to meet new or unforeseen requirements. My web-hosting contract provides for plenty of disk space and for several gigabytes of data transfers each month under the basic rate. I've also added about 100 documents to my collection since I wrote the article. So I've put my current ESD bibliography on the website in three pieces: * http://www.r-e-d-inc.com/esd-anno.htm a partially annotated bibliography on ESD, covering nearly 1480 source documents (I work on this as I have time). * http://www.r-e-d-inc.com/esd-term.htm 220+ terms under which I found information on the subject, with the key words and key phrases I used in the annotated bibliography. * http://www.r-e-d-inc.com/esd-want.htm magazines, journals, and conference proceedings that have had one or more papers/articles on the subject. This last webpage is also my search list, listing documents that I have seen cited in the literature but so far have been unable to locate. I would appreciate any leads you may have as to libraries or personal collections from which I could get copies of these. Enjoy! John Barnes Advisory Engineer Lexmark International jrbar...@lexmark.com (work) jrbar...@iglou.com (home) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EMI guard bands
I have a copy of a CBEMA (Computer and Business Equipment Manufacturers' Association) report from 1977 that includes the complete development of the CE and RE limits imposed by the FCC. The limits are based purely on the effect on a radio receiver. I have myself verified that the limits are well-placed in the conducted case. I think any concern about measurement accuracy should NOT be built into the limits. The limits themselves contain a lot of slop. The limits are based on maintaining a particular signal-to-noise ratio which in turn means a particular level of signal from the broadcast station. Also, different radios have different sensitivity when receiving the same rf input, that is for the same rf input to the front end, differing amounts of rfi cause the same amount of interference. I have myself verified this across a sample of over 30 radios with large variations from sample to sample but the mean was exactly 48 dBuV, which is the CBEMA-recommended and FCC mandated CE limit. With significant variation in the response of individual protected victims, an excessive focus on minor variations in the repeatability of measurements is unproductive and misplaced emphasis. Incidentally, several years ago I determined that the response of these radios to common mode rfi was 20 dB more sensitive than to differential mode rfi, because the storage capacitor in the radio's power supply acts as a filter to dm conducted interference. I proposed changing CE limits and measurements to reflect this difference in sensitivity, but no action was taken. -- From: rehel...@mmm.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EMI guard bands Date: Thu, Dec 20, 2001, 6:03 AM After listening to this thread, it brings up a question that I have had over the years regarding limit lines and passing margins. Are there EMI guard bands already built into the limit lines? I find it very difficult to believe that a group of reasonable people developing a limit line would have determined that they had thought of every possible EMI interference issue and would not have built a safety margin into that limit. Does anyone have any historical development data or insights into the creation of limits? Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EMI guard bands
I read in !emc-pstc that rehel...@mmm.com wrote (in of6c4e54e3.fd742a66-on86256b28.0040f...@mmm.com) about 'EMI guard bands', on Thu, 20 Dec 2001: Does anyone have any historical development data or insights into the creation of limits? See my direct response to the OP. Even if limits were originally 'best guess', over the years they have been altered if/when too many complaints of interference were received by the spectrum-control authorities. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EMI guard bands
I read in !emc-pstc that CE-TEST cet...@cetest.nl wrote (in nfbbilofgmjcamhepkbaaeglceaa.cet...@cetest.nl) about 'EMI guard bands', on Thu, 20 Dec 2001: It's just for a few months now that CISPR/IEC are considering to implement measurement faults into the required margin. No, the subject has been under study for several years. Several reports have been circulated for voting. As far as my knowledge reaches, a margin for measurement errors in your equipment is officially not required, however silly that sounds. The subject is extremely complex; so complex, in fact that for practical purposes it may actually be uncomputable, but this concept is unacceptable to accreditation agencies so we have to continue to try to make it computable. Some errors are quite easily (if expensively) controlled, and equipment errors fall into this category - you just calibrate against national standard very frequently! Other errors are not controllable, such as the dependence of emissions in a given direction on the exact positioning of cables, and must be classified as 'uncertainty', which can be *estimated* but not *calculated*. If you could calculate it, it would not be uncertainty! There are ways of reducing uncertainty - such as repeated testing one sample and testing many samples, but these are very costly procedures. It is extremely difficult to reconcile the approach to this subject which is fundamental to metrologists and accreditation agencies with the practicality that demands justification for 'high accuracy at any cost'. Bear in mind that emission limits are justified pragmatically by the maintenance at acceptable levels of complaints of interference, not by appeal to some laws of physics. The levels adopted generally at present seem adequate for at least 10^6-1 out of 10^6 sites (Remember that even in a small country there are probably 10^8 'sites'). So an uncompensated measurement error that changes this figure to 10^6 - 1.001 does not seem worth spending USD10 000 to track down. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMI guard bands
It's just for a few months now that CISPR/IEC are considering to implement measurement faults into the required margin. Several reports have been circulated for voting. As far as my knowledge reaches, a margin for measurement errors in your equipment is officially not required, however silly that sounds. So you are allowed to go for the limit having measurement equipment with an accuracy of 10 dB as well as 1 dB, where the latter of course might be much more severe, depending on the polarity of the error. The only wise and required margin is that required by the 80/80 rule. I doubt however, that any of us can reliably prove it's measurement errors for radiated emissions are less then 6dB using a real life EUT. A recent survey of Goedbloed amongst accredited laboratories showed measurement differences of over 10 dB using a standard EUT, depending on frequency, OATS, SAR and FAR. This survey excluded variations in set up of the EUT, rotational variations and thoroughness of the test engineer in finding worst case ! EMI measurement is still a fuzzy discipline ! Gert Gremmen -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of douglas_beckw...@mitel.com Sent: woensdag 19 december 2001 16:50 To: Stone, Richard A (Richard) Cc: 'Gary McInturff'; Doug McKean; EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: RE: EMI guard bands From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 12/19/2001 10:50 AM Legally you are not required to have any margin, but you measurement uncertainty is usually 3-4db, so you would set the margin to allow for at least your measurement uncertainty. In my previous company we specified 6dB margin to Class A and 3dB margin to Class B. If you specifiy greater than 3dB to class B, your development costs to achieve that rise exponentially. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks Stone, Richard A (Richard) rsto...@lucent.com on 12/19/2001 08:06:06 AM Please respond to Stone, Richard A (Richard) rsto...@lucent.com To: 'Gary McInturff' gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com, Doug McKean dmck...@auspex.com, EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: RE: EMI guard bands Does anyone make Class A AND Class B products? if so, do you allow for a much smaller margin on the B since its approx. 10 db quieter than A to start with. or do you treat them equally. Also Oats site to Oats site can differ as much as +/- 4 db do to many factors. any comments? Richard, -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM To: Doug McKean; EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: RE: EMI guard bands I hold with the 3 db under class B, as well as A. The only effective argument, in my mind, is the uncertainty of measurement issue. Beyond that I find that if I have 3 db everywhere my measurements next time down with that product or with one off the shelf have also been compliant. So if pragmatic repeated measurements is telling me I'm in then I am not going to spend the time and money to make even more sure that I am in. The goal is to not interfere with communications not to be invisible at all costs. If it ain't broke I'm not fixing it. Obviously, others disagree. By the way if a customer requests it, they get what they want, if they want to pay for it, and I have never rejected products with a 3 db band - and they haven't bitten me yet either. My couple cents Gary -Original Message- From: Doug McKean [mailto:dmck...@auspex.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:15 PM To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: Re: EMI guard bands Tania Grant wrote: Amund, My minimum criteria and recommendation has always been at least 6dB. However, how many engineering managers, upon finding a 1.5 dB margin in their favor, rule ship it! nod Although in some markets, there are customers who require -6dB under the Class A limit. Although if I had it my way, I'd make it about -10dB under the limit. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product
RE: EMI guard bands
After listening to this thread, it brings up a question that I have had over the years regarding limit lines and passing margins. Are there EMI guard bands already built into the limit lines? I find it very difficult to believe that a group of reasonable people developing a limit line would have determined that they had thought of every possible EMI interference issue and would not have built a safety margin into that limit. Does anyone have any historical development data or insights into the creation of limits? Bob Heller 3M Product Safety, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Fw: working voltage measurement
Hi Group I have a question regarding working voltage measurement of IEC 60950 we have a E.U.T.(switching power supply) I want to clarify the measurement of working voltage 1. Using an oscilloscope having an adequate bandwith and using a high impedance probe (100Mohm), and adequate integration time to measure working voltage. The load on the secondary circuits is to be varied in order to find highest voltage across the insulation. Floating secondary outputs (capacitively connected to earth) are earthed. 2. don't make connection between primary winding and secondary winding. 3. we will get a stable waveform on the oscilloscope. working voltage we measure are as follows: The waveform we get by the above method is a kind of waveform modulated by high-frequency switching waveform. MEASURED voltage: 246V(rms),576V(peak) When we change trigger level and time base to obtain stable switching waveform, we get different rms voltage with different trigger level. the highest rms voltage we get is 380V. My question 1. the above steps are correct or not? 2. For switching power supply, what waveform of working voltage is correct for primary and secondary How to obtain? 3. Which one(246V, 380V) is correct for working voltage measurement? or other methods? Thank you for any comments in advance Best Regards Xing weibing 2001-12-17
Re: Type Approval in China for Telecom Equipment
Hi Jeff, The MII in China does require type approval (Network Access License) for a wide-ranging scope of telecommunications equipment. There are several defined categories of equipment included in the NAL scope: - Telecommunications Terminal Equipment - Wireless Telecommunications Equipment - Interworking Equipment The Interworking Equipment category does include, among other things, optical transmission equipment, network switches, gateways and routers. From our experience, CO-type equipment is typically classified as important equipment under the NAL procedures. In addition to the testing required as part of the approval process, applications for important equipment must now be accompanied by a 3-month trial test report from a Chinese carrier or authorized network simulation lab. Hope this provides a bit more insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any additional questions. Best Regards, Chun Kim BWS Tech, The Approval Specialists - Original Message - From: Collins, Jeffrey To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: Type Approval in China for Telecom Equipment Group, Has anyone had experiences with Type Approvals for telecom equipment in China? I'm specifically looking for laws which spell out what type of Telecom products require it and what types are exempt. I received a request from our sales in China that the government agency for telecom Ministry of Information Industry ( MII ) requires type approval for our gear. We are strictly Central Office Telecom equipment with no direct connection to residential lines. Our products are sold only to major carriers and will not be sold at large. Any comments, experiences, or knowledge in working with China regarding Telecom is appreciated. Regards, Jeffrey Collins Sr. HW Engineering Manager EMC/ NEBS/ Safety/ Reliability CIENA Core Switching Division 10480 Ridgeview Court, Cupertino, CA. 95014 (408) 366-4806, Fax (408) 366-4866 jcoll...@ciena.com http://www.ciena.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Type Approval in China for Telecom Equipment
Collins, Jeffrey wrote: Group, Has anyone had experiences with Type Approvals for telecom equipment in China? I'm specifically looking for laws which spell out what type of Telecom products require it and what types are exempt. I received a request from our sales in China that the government agency for telecom Ministry of Information Industry ( MII ) requires type approval for our gear. We are strictly Central Office Telecom equipment with no direct connection to residential lines. Our products are sold only to major carriers and will not be sold at large. Any comments, experiences, or knowledge in working with China regarding Telecom is appreciated. Radio equipment for China require type approval. You will need to contact the State Radio Regulatory Commission (SRRC) which operates under the auspices of the Ministry of Information Industry. The applicant for approval should be a company registered in China. -- Daniel Kwok, P.Eng. Principal EMC Engineer Intetron Consulting, Inc. Vancouver, Canada Phone (604) 432-9874 Email dk...@intetron.com Web http://www.intetron.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
