PCBA Inspection Stamps
Hello group, I have a request for information on stamping methods of PCBAs. I would normally post this question on one of the discussion forums for PCB design, but this question really does pertain to product safety. But first, please indulge me while I provide a little background information... My company uses a very large number of PCB assemblies with wide variety of technologies. Many of these boards have safety considerations and receive routine hipot testing during manufacture. As is normally the case, in-house and outsource assembly of the boards requires various kinds of inspection and test with stamps for validation. Traditionally these are rubber stamps or some form of an adhesive label with printing. Many of our boards have high voltage separation from SELV circuits and as it turns out the most convenient place to put a stamp is in a safety keepout zone. There have been a number of hipot failures that track right through this stamp. In our standard practices manual, we specify the use of only white epoxy based inks, but some of these are conductive as well. In addition, with the ever shrinking geometries of high density boards, placing a nonconductive stamp on a low voltage circuit interferes by insulating test points for bed of nails testing. Since inspection marks are usually placed by hand, the faults we see are fairly random. So, on the one hand conductive inks are bad and on the other hand nonconductive inks are bad. In an effort to solve this problem, we've considered providing a silk-screened area of the board that is safe to stamp, but real estate is now at a premium and solder-side silk costs on average about 10% more. Plus, it won't be long until computerized component ID and location eliminates the need for silk-screen entirely. My question is this: Has anyone discovered a technology or process of any sort, for marking of ultra-high density or high voltage PCBAs and is easy to implement in most board houses? I have to think that with all the technological advances the old rubber stamp or adhesive label could be replaced somehow. Who knows, maybe some form of UV identification? I am very interested to hear any success stories that you may have. Best regards to all, -doug Douglas E. Powell Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80535 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances
I'll add my 2 cents and say that any ac motor which goes into lo-line stall or hi-line saturation. I.e. refrigerators, air conditioners where the compressor can be damaged. A brownout causing the motor to stall drawing more current than normal and overheating. Or at a high enough level where a motor goes into saturation. Then, it can draw enorous currents and overheat. Switchers can tend to go nuts in lo-line causing it to draw a high current with a high load. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: anechoic EMC testing chambers for sale
Folks Due to a facility closings I need a plan within two weeks to remove a 32 ft by 38 ft by 10 ft anechoic EMC testing chamber which is currently installed, calibrated and accredited in CA. I also have a 14 ft by 24 ft by 10 ft 10 ft anechoic EMC testing chamber which is currently in storage in MA from a previous facility closing. Please contact John Freudenberg directly at john.freudenb...@teradyne.com if you have any ideas. ThanksPaul S --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Vehicle Mounted PCB's
You could look to the SAE J1113 Surface Vehicle standard. This covers EMC, ESD and physical environmental requirements for vehicle equipment. Further, the major auto companies have internal standards. (The only one I can recall is Ford's ES-XW7T-1A278-AB EMC specification.) Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:17 AM To: David Sproul; EMC-PSTC Subject: RE: Vehicle Mounted PCB's sprays bank notes with red ink when it believes a robbery is taking place. And you want to sell it the US - heavens forbid! The new government administration is already putting our money in the red fast enough and doesn't need the additional help! I don't know what standards are involved but it seems customers not buying the product because of these problems would would drive a re-design pretty darn quickly. Gary -Original Message- From: David Sproul [mailto:david.spr...@alexanderlynn.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Vehicle Mounted PCB's Dear group, A customer has been asked to redesign a board to stop it malfunctioning due to vibration, temperature and radio interference. They have been given a control PCB which they are told is the main culprit for the malfunctions. They circuit is mounted in an armoured vehicle as part of a security system which sprays bank notes with red ink when it believes a robbery is taking place. Apparently it sprays ink if it gets too hot, too cold, gets bumped, or if a radio or mobile phone is operated too close to it. The bad news is that this is on the market and being used by security firms within the UK and mainland Europe, with no real evidence of previous compliance with anything. Should this comply with any of Vehicle directive requirements? Are there any peculiar EMC requirements other than the usual 61000 series? What standard is likely to cover this device for use in vehicles? Although they haven't asked, what would be the most appropriate standard to cover safety requirements for this device. (Although is runs of only 12V, I am concerned about a fault causing a short across the battery, for example)? There was mention of selling it in the US too. If any has thoughts on what such a device should comply with there, all comments would be gratefully received. If you are thinking of writing back and suggesting the device be thrown in the bin, then I'm sorry to say that someone else has beaten you to it. Best regards, David Sproul,
Re: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances
I read in !emc-pstc that robert.s...@flextronics.com wrote (in e9ff7eea38e6d311b941009027e78723030f3...@usysvmx01.ysv.flextronics.com ) about 'Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances' on Fri, 6 Dec 2002: I believe that the remarks below are valid only for undervoltage conditions. In overvoltage situations, any device will overheat and be damaged, regardless of motor or power supply type, if the voltage is high enough. Yes, of course. If it's high enough to do damage it will. Overvoltage can heat up some things and cool down others. Some devices may shut down safely because of internal over temp protectors or fuses. I know personally of a wall-mounted electric clock that overheated. The plastic case melted which dropped the clock to the floor where a fire started up the wall. If someone had not been at home to put it out, the house could have burned down. The motor was a synchronous type which was impedance protected, whatever that means. There was no indication of overvoltage or other extenuating factor, except possibly old age. Yes, Old age - shorted turns. Overvoltage on an impedance-protected motor is most unlikely to cause catastrophic failure. Impedance- protected means that the winding will not burn up even if the rotor is locked. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Vehicle Mounted PCB's
sprays bank notes with red ink when it believes a robbery is taking place. And you want to sell it the US - heavens forbid! The new government administration is already putting our money in the red fast enough and doesn't need the additional help! I don't know what standards are involved but it seems customers not buying the product because of these problems would would drive a re-design pretty darn quickly. Gary -Original Message- From: David Sproul [mailto:david.spr...@alexanderlynn.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Vehicle Mounted PCB's Dear group, A customer has been asked to redesign a board to stop it malfunctioning due to vibration, temperature and radio interference. They have been given a control PCB which they are told is the main culprit for the malfunctions. They circuit is mounted in an armoured vehicle as part of a security system which sprays bank notes with red ink when it believes a robbery is taking place. Apparently it sprays ink if it gets too hot, too cold, gets bumped, or if a radio or mobile phone is operated too close to it. The bad news is that this is on the market and being used by security firms within the UK and mainland Europe, with no real evidence of previous compliance with anything. Should this comply with any of Vehicle directive requirements? Are there any peculiar EMC requirements other than the usual 61000 series? What standard is likely to cover this device for use in vehicles? Although they haven't asked, what would be the most appropriate standard to cover safety requirements for this device. (Although is runs of only 12V, I am concerned about a fault causing a short across the battery, for example)? There was mention of selling it in the US too. If any has thoughts on what such a device should comply with there, all comments would be gratefully received. If you are thinking of writing back and suggesting the device be thrown in the bin, then I'm sorry to say that someone else has beaten you to it. Best regards, David Sproul,
RE: EMC Safety Surveillance Agencies
It's safe to say that a primary one is customs. John A. Juhasz GE Interlogix Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Russell [mailto:r@totalise.co.uk] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:19 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EMC Safety Surveillance Agencies Is there a list of EU Directive surveillance agencies for each EU country? If not, could people chip in with the ones they know. Further, are there any published statistics for products tested by these agencies, including the pass/fail rate. I'm particularly interested in figures for EMC, LVD and RTTE. Thanks, Russell. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances
Robert is quite right; I was only addressing undervoltage conditions. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Robert Seay Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 6:18 AM I believe that the remarks below are valid only for undervoltage conditions. In overvoltage situations, any device will overheat and be damaged, regardless of motor or power supply type, if the voltage is high enough. Some devices may shut down safely because of internal over temp protectors or fuses. Regards, Robert --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EMC Safety Surveillance Agencies
Is there a list of EU Directive surveillance agencies for each EU country? If not, could people chip in with the ones they know. Further, are there any published statistics for products tested by these agencies, including the pass/fail rate. Im particularly interested in figures for EMC, LVD and RTTE. Thanks, Russell. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Vehicle Mounted PCB's
never mind throwing it in the bin. the neat trick was somebody got paid for the design work!!! Sounds like you may want to begin again from basic principles. Don't tell em, but just copy the mounting and connection details and everything else can be a clean sweep. Good Luck, great story. Best Regards Ted Rook, Console Engineering, ext 4659 Please note our new location and phone numbers: Crest Audio Inc, 16-00 Pollitt Drive Fair Lawn, NJ 07410 USA 201 475 4600 telephone receptionist, 8.30 - 5 pm EST. 201 475 4659 direct line w/voice mail, 24 hrs. 201 475 4677 fax, 24 hrs. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE for IP Phone - one last time and for those still interested or still steamed lets go off line.
I find this a very interesting debate but for those that don't after this response you should contact me off line. I do want to make it clear that I certainly don't have the magic answer and one should decide for themselves - just don't follow along simply because somebody wrote an ill conceived paragraph - you've all ready many of mine. Bad policy needlessly wastes millions of dollars and doesn't address any sort of problem. The ill conceived idea in this case is the indirectly no matter how remotely' phrase. Interestingly enough, some have made the argument that my PC and speaker system doesn't count because it can't plug into an RJ-11 connector. According to the standard that doesn't matter . indirectly nor matter how remotely...' The next argument is that it could incorrectly be connected to a similar connector. The RTTE addresses this with markings - as do the safety standards that address the more appropriate - again my classification - ITE equipment. One commenter also noted that in Europe the RJ-45 would plug into an RJ-31. That causes a moment of reflection but still covered by the less obtrusive safety and EMC standards, and its a short term misuse of the product. I say short term because it will quickly become apparent that it isn't functioning and would be removed. I plug both a vacuum and a floor buffer into the same outlet, but I can't the dog hair out of the carpet no matter how hard I try. Finally, I would argue that the IP phone may resemble a phone, (and a Volkswagen kind of resembles a Porsche - doors wheels, a steering wheel etc) but that's where the similarity stops. It more resembles a microphone or more like a wireless headset, because it does send and receive what is heard at the far end as a human voice. But like the IP phone it doesn't connect to the POTS lines. It can't ring a phone, it doesn't use the same voltage levels as a phone, it doesn't dial like a phone - it has more doesn't than does. If a standard doesn't make sense - fix it. For you standards writers out there, I don't envy your jobs its tough for a host of reasons, and good standards are really crucial, but occasionally they have huge problems that need to be addressed. For those I've made mad, my apologies not for doing the arguing but for elevating your blood pressure, for those that have made some good arguments I appreciate the input. I'm going to spend the rest of the day listening to one of my favorite American Bands - Rage Against the Machine. Gary All - One point that seems to be missing from this discussion is that an IP telephone looks like a telephone, acts like a telephone and for all intents and purposes *is* a telephone, irrespective of how *telecommunication* is transformed, transmitted, protocol converted, stapled, spindled folded or mutilated. I wish luck to those who don't believe the RTTE Dir. applies in convincing customs officials that it doesn't. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Conducted Emissions Testing of Intentional Radiators
Richard Back in the old days when you had to certify non-intentional radiators I had a similar problem. I non-inductively bundled the offending radiating network signal cable so that it was very short, reducing the coupled signal below the limit. The FCC accepted the test report. My recollection was that they were only concerned with what was being injected up the mains lead from the mains port on the EUT. regards Charlie Blackham -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: 06 December 2002 13:46 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Conducted Emissions Testing of Intentional Radiators When are testing a FCC Part 15 intentional radiator operating below 30 MHz, and have encountered the situation where the emissions from the antenna is being received by the power cord and causing the system to fail conducted limits. The transmitter complies with the conducted limits with a dummy antenna load. The transmitter has a detachable antenna and a 12 ft antenna cable. Is it permissible to demonstrate compliance with the conducted limits by 1) using a dummy antenna load, or 2) placing the antenna outside the chamber, or 3) some other way? Obviously, whatever method we use must be acceptable to the FCC. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances
I was waiting for a reply from Ted Rook, and I don't see one, so I will take a whack at the answer. From what I have seen of domestic well pumps in this country, they usually use a capacitor run (split phase) motor, with extra capacitance switched in for starting. The starting capacitor causes a leading power factor, increasing power line voltage. I have seen another cause for lights getting brighter which is due to the common domestic power feed here in the US, which is 240 volts center tapped. This gives two sets of 120 volt loads in the house. If there is high resistance in the neutral (center tap) conductor, a high current load (such as a motor starting) will cause one set of lights in the house to get dimmer, while the other set gets brighter. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk@majordomo.ieee.org on 12/05/2002 01:01:34 PM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject:Re: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances I read in !emc-pstc that Ted Rook t...@crestaudio.com wrote (in sdef3745@peavey.com) about 'Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances' on Thu, 5 Dec 2002: In my semi rural home 50 miles NW of NYC I have the normal 120V 60Hz domestic supply. The well water pump starts automatically and pulls a lot of current. Inside the house the tungsten lighting brightens about 30% for half a second everytime the pump turns on. Why does the pump cause an *increase* in voltage? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances
Peter and all, I believe that the remarks below are valid only for undervoltage conditions. In overvoltage situations, any device will overheat and be damaged, regardless of motor or power supply type, if the voltage is high enough. Some devices may shut down safely because of internal over temp protectors or fuses. I know personally of a wall-mounted electric clock that overheated. The plastic case melted which dropped the clock to the floor where a fire started up the wall. If someone had not been at home to put it out, the house could have burned down. The motor was a synchronous type which was impedance protected, whatever that means. There was no indication of overvoltage or other extenuating factor, except possibly old age. Regards, Robert EMC Engineer Flextronics Compliance Laboratory Youngsville, NC USA -Original Message- From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 10:57 AM To: Peter Merguerian; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: RE: Undervoltage/Overvoltage Effect on Household Appliances Peter - Any appliance with an ac electric motor, with the exception of electric clocks (which use synchronous motors), will overheat. Whether or not this will lead to an unsafe condition will depend on the robustness of the design and the duration of the overvoltage. Similarly, appliances with linear power supplies, like microwave ovens, the transformer may also overheat if in use at the time of the low voltage condition. I don't know what a low voltage condition will do to a magnetron, other than reduce possibly its radiation output. Most appliance fan motors are shaded-pole squirrel cage induction motors and will also overheat. The timing motors on laundry machines and automatic lawn sprinkler systems are probably also synchronous types and will not be significantly effected. Anything with a SMPS probably will be less effected than a linear, but will try to draw additional current for a fixed load condition and might get unusually warm. [I realize that my contention that most electric motors in the household are induction motors contradicts those made by others on this list during a discussion of the electric power debacle in California in summer, 2001, including the officials of the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, when it was proposed to lower the voltage on the utility power bus to save energy. When considering the cost of building an induction motor versus a synchronous motor, it will become clear that no engineer or capitalist worth his salt will build an appliance using a synchronous motor, unless the application calls for it.] Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian Dear All, I am interested the damaging effects on components of electrical household appliances as a result of overvoltages and/or undervoltages. As an example, what are the types of components that would be damaged in a TV or personal computer from an undervoltage or overvoltage in the electric power line? Every household appliance may have different components and I am intersted the effects on as many appliances as possible (refrigerator, vacuum cleaner, TV, lawn mower, jaccuzi, electric shaver, lighting power supplies, fans, etc. etc.). PETER S. MERGUERIAN --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Power pack placement during emissions testing.
I read in !emc-pstc that Bill Morse bill...@verifone.com wrote (in 614CC7C21856D1118DA30060B06B487302C29410@SMF-NT-MAIL1) about 'Power pack placement during emissions testing.' on Thu, 5 Dec 2002: But considering what seem to be conflicting sections in CISPR 22 I would like to see what the general opinions and comments are. Clip a ferrite round the output cable and you may not need to make a hard decision. I think your argument that you must choose the most unfavourable, realistic configuration is absolutely correct. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Methenamine timed burning tablet
Methenamine timed burning tablet: Supplier: VESTA Pharmaceuticals at 888-55 VESTA. They can provide the tablets. The person who is in charge with those Tablets (formerly Lilly 1588) is John GARRETT at extension 206. They have in stock these VESTA CODE 12800 (same day shipping), at a price of 80.00 USD / bottle; it has 100 tablets with a burning time of 130 seconds; Orders shall be FAXED at 317 895 9340. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:32 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Methenamine timed burning tablet [fadr] Some fire tests use a methenamine timed burning tablet. This tablet is specified in USA government standards for furniture flammablity testing. (See 16 CFR Part 1630.4 or CPSC standard FF 1-70.) It is also specified in ASTM D2859. I have also seen it used to test fire enclosures in Europe. Until February of this year, Eli Lilly supplied this tablet as Catalog No. 1588. In February, 2002, Eli Lilly discontinued the tablet. According to Eli Lilly, no other US manufacturer has picked up this tablet; they did not know if a Euro manufacturer was making the tablet. I am looking for a source for this methenamine tablet. If you can provide some pointers, I would appreciate it. Thanks, and best regards from San Diego, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Conducted Emissions Testing of Intentional Radiators
When are testing a FCC Part 15 intentional radiator operating below 30 MHz, and have encountered the situation where the emissions from the antenna is being received by the power cord and causing the system to fail conducted limits. The transmitter complies with the conducted limits with a dummy antenna load. The transmitter has a detachable antenna and a 12 ft antenna cable. Is it permissible to demonstrate compliance with the conducted limits by 1) using a dummy antenna load, or 2) placing the antenna outside the chamber, or 3) some other way? Obviously, whatever method we use must be acceptable to the FCC. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE for IP Phone
Peter and All members of the Group, Thank you all for responding to my post regarding CE for an IP phone. Such a phone, is generally part fo a PBX system. Since the PBX system falls under the RTTE Directive, then the IP phone, being part of the system, would also fall under the RTTE Directive. This is our interpretation and hope that many of you would agree to this ruling. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:36 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CE for IP Phone All - One point that seems to be missing from this discussion is that an IP telephone looks like a telephone, acts like a telephone and for all intents and purposes *is* a telephone, irrespective of how *telecommunication* is transformed, transmitted, protocol converted, stapled, spindled folded or mutilated. I wish luck to those who don't believe the RTTE Dir. applies in convincing customs officials that it doesn't. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE for IP Phone
Which brings us to the odd conclusion that the only people who really care what approvals apply are the customs officials. We should probably be asking them what they expect since they appear pretty autonomous. Bob Johnson ITE Safety -Original Message- From: Peter L. Tarver One point that seems to be missing from this discussion is that an IP telephone looks like a telephone, acts like a telephone and for all intents and purposes *is* a telephone, irrespective of how *telecommunication* is transformed, transmitted, protocol converted, stapled, spindled folded or mutilated. I wish luck to those who don't believe the RTTE Dir. applies in convincing customs officials that it doesn't. attachment: Robert Johnson.vcf
RE: EMC-PSTC you've today received a greeting created by .
IMPORTANT! DO NOT GO TO THE WEB SITE IN THE ATTACHED MESSAGE When a recipient clicks on the link, the user is prompted to download the Friend Greetings Setup Software in order to view the E-Card. If a user accepts the End User License Agreement to install the software, an e-mail is sent to all contacts in the user's Microsoft Outlook Address Book. The E-Card e-mail propagates itself like a worm or virus. Additionally, the Friend Greetings Software itself is not classified as a virus or a worm. It is a new form of SPAM or unsolicited e-mail advertisements. A fuller explanation can be read in a recent CNN article, which can be found at: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/10/28/security.net/index.html e-mail greetings may contain pornographic pop-up ads which are hidden in the Friend Greetings Software program. Do not open the URL in the attached message. Jim Seippel -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Rhodes Sent: December 5, 2002 7:51 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: EMC-PSTC you've today received a greeting created by . http://65.240.226.242/203746/f.gif EMC-PSTC, has just mailed you an ecard greeting. Pick up your ecard by going here; http://www.FriendGreeting.net/pickdup.aspx?code=EMC-PSTC http://65.240.226.242/203746/pickup.html?code=EMC-PSTCid=0512022 id=0512022 Note; EMC-PSTC, Please pick up the e-card recently e-mailed. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EMC-PSTC you've today received a greeting created by .
http://65.240.226.242/203746/f.gif EMC-PSTC, has just mailed you an ecard greeting. Pick up your ecard by going here; http://www.FriendGreeting.net/pickup.aspx?code=EMC-PSTC http://65.240.226.242/203746/pickup.html?code=EMC-PSTCid=0512022 id=0512022 Note; EMC-PSTC, Please pick up the e-card recently e-mailed. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
FW: Here's a good laugh
I have received some feedback regarding my below message. I wish to clarify that the pat answers I received were from the EC, not from individual contributors to this list. My apologies if I have offended anyone by not being clear. Peter From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: 05 December 2002 15:08 To: PSTC Subject: Here's a good laugh You may recall that I requested an official document from the EC that clearly stated how the docopocoss related to manufacturing. After receiving a few pat answers that did nothing more than regurgitate what's already public information in the Blue Guide and not addressing my specific query, I pressed the issue further, receiving the following from the EC. There might be still open questions with regard to specific information on standards. In this case please refer your detailed question to CENELEC the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (helpd...@cenelec.org). So, in essence, there is nothing official available from the EC that ties the docopocoss to a last date of manufacture previously found in some CENELEC standards This was the conclusion John Woodgate also reached from his EC contact. After reading in a previous post that the EC may have asked CENELEC to stop placing last date of manufacture in the forwards to their standards, then being referred to CENELEC by the EC ... that's comedy. Once again, O. Henry would be amused. Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to CENELEC I go ... Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
