Re: CE for components?
Hi, You will not, I suspect, find a universal answer applicable to all Directives that call for CE marking. A number of people in the past have identified where it is possible to download copies of the Commission's guides to such Directives as the LVD and the EMCD and you should certainly refer to these. One of the problems is that one person's idea of a component can be anther's idea of finished equipment. Perhaps to a PC manufacturer a power supply or a modem could be classified as a component, but to the power supply or modem manufacture they may think they are themselves making products whereas individual transformers, capacitors and the like are components. This can be even more ambiguous for certain safety critical components, such as fuses and switches. On top of the above there is precedent. So, for example, plastic conduit (used for housing electrical cables, themselves insulated) is considered electrical equipment in accordance with the LVD guide whereas SCRs (rated at say 400V) are not. So, the first thing that you need to look at is the aforementioned guides. Another thing that you may wish to consider is the probable user for your 'component'. If it can be purchased in a do it yourself store or PC superstore and fitted with little or no knowledge of electronics then that item sounds a good candidate for CE marking (always providing it comes within the scope of a CE marking directive of course). So, power supplies, modems etc. are CE marked under both the LVD and the EMCD; sound cards are CE marked only under the EMCD (the LVD does not apply to them); power cords are CE marked under the LVD only; and LEDs are not CE marked at all. Having dealt with the usual fair of this group, there are other Directives that may need to be considered (you do not say what your product is). If it is to be installed as part of the building then the Construction Products Directive will probably apply. Similarly, it may fall into the category of Personal Protective Equipment (such as rubber boots or protective eye-wear) and here again a CE marking would be required. No hard and fast rules that cover all eventualities unfortunately. Regards, Richard Hughes Safety Answers Limited
RE: Do you realise how annoying it is?
Could this be why so many senior manager subscribe? Gregg From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Hudson, Alan Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:41 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: Do you realise how annoying it is? Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Would the people that have Out of the Office autoreplies set please do one of the following: (a) Turn Autoreply off! (I've never seen a need for it myself, and what did they do before they had it?) (b) If you can't/won't turn it off then unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list and re-subscribe using another email address with an emailer which doesn't have Autoreply turned on (let's face it, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of free email addresses available). A small effort on one person's part to setup another address (or to turn off Autoreply) would save hundreds (thousands?) of subscribers having to make the effort to eliminate/filter unwanted Out of office messages. ...or we could be very nasty and make a list of all subscribers who have Autoreply set, and route spam to them for a change (because that's what it is - unwanted junk mail) - when they're back in the office of course. Rant off Oh God! It's just occurred to me - if I send this I'm going to get another load of Out of Office messages! ...but at least it's not July 4th (think of the pointless OOF replies clogging the internet then!), and it's a Monday after all. :-) Oh God (again)! It's just occurred to me - the OOF people won't be reading this message. Sob :-( Alan This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: The transformer screen/shield conundrum
Hi John: For 3% voltage drop at maximum rated load, the source resistance is about 0.2 ohm. So the maximum rms current would be system nominal voltage divided by 0.2 ohm, or 600 amps for 120 V and 1150 amps for 230 V. For 230V, there are two modifications. One is that roughly the same *power* is distributed as at 120 V, so the system impedance would be doubled. But, in addition, the supply voltage tolerances are greater than 3%: in Europe the tolerance is about double, so, overall, the system impedance could be four times that 0.2 ohm. But in fact, 90% of supplies are below 0.47 ohms (see IEC 60725, under amendment). I disagree that the same power is distributed at 230 V and 120 V. If the breakers are 230 V/16 A and 120 V/15 A, then the power distributed at 230 V is roughly twice that at 120 V. My subject was *not* supply voltage tolerance, but system *design* goal for percent voltage drop at max rated load (the circuit-breaker rating). I really believe that EEs in Europe design supply systems to 3% voltage drop at rated current, 16 A, just as they do in North America. The reason I so believe is that the wire sizes for 15 A (NA) or 16 A (Euro) circuits are nearly the same. The same size wire at (nearly) the same current would give (nearly) the same percent voltage drop. (If the system source impedance is 0.47 ohms, then, at 230 V, the system voltage drop would be slightly more than 6% at maximum rated load.) We really weren't talking about voltage, but about the maximum current into a fault in cord-connected equipment. The voltage tolerance can be ignored for this purpose. That still gives 490 A, which would be embarrassingly big, but it apples at the 'point of common connection', not at the wall socket and still less at the equipment. My comments were for the current available at the wall socket. In North America, building wiring is designed for maximum 3% voltage drop at maximum rated current. In NA, at the point of common connection between the building and the electicity supplier, the electricity supplier maintains a nearly constant voltage. He does so not only by his system design, but also by dynamically adjusting the voltage of the source. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CE for components?
Sam, There is a workgroup working on this concept ( IERSET) to obtain repeatable test in GTEM cell, via simulation by using the IBIS model. So far I don't think they plan to deliver a CE mark for component. May be somebody would have more recent information concerning this subject. http://intrage.insa-tlse.fr/~etienne/Emc/cemgrenoble02.ppt From: Sam Davis [mailto:sda...@ptitest.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 3:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: CE for components? I've gotten conflicting information on this, so can anyone point me to an official verdict? Is CE intended to be used on components, or just final products? Can a component be CE marked? I have seen many, but just having seen something done doesn't make it right. Obviously, EMC compliance of an end-use product can't be proven with any unknown I've heard it was never intended for components, and I've heard it always has been. Can anyone clear this up? This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: CE for components?
In a message dated 6/30/2003 2:41:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, sda...@ptitest.com writes: Is CE intended to be used on components, or just final products? Can a component be CE marked? I have seen many, but just having seen something done doesn't make it right. Obviously, EMC compliance of an end-use product can't be proven with any unknown I've heard it was never intended for components, and I've heard it always has been. Can anyone clear this up? I suspect not, as most of us have been trying for years without success. :) However, I can tell you with a certain degree of confidence that the CE marking was not *originally* intended for components. As things progressed, tho, a few things happened. First, it became apparent that it is impossible to uanmbiguously define the term component. It also became apparent that end-product manufacturers who didn't understand the Directives were going to demand CE marked components from their suppliers, and the suppliers were going to provide them. Finally, it became necessary for some of the Directives to consider certain components to be within their scope. So without getting into a big long discussion of generalities, I think the bottom line is you have to take each situation into account on an individual basis. Tell us what your specific product is, and perhaps what your customer or distributor is saying, and we'll try to suggest the best course of action. Greg Galluccio Global Advantage International www.globaladvantage.ca This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Do you realize how annoying it is?
I read in !emc-pstc that Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote (in DEDA59C30D344E4182D1A4DAB86C5B780434B36D@riv- exch2.echostar.com) about 'Do you realize how annoying it is?' on Mon, 30 Jun 2003: Any reasonable email software can set rules that automatically files email replies. For example the OOF replies?..they are automatically routed to my Deleted Items. Not too much of a hassle.. ... unless you inadvertently set your mailer to **reject** them, in which case you may set up an endless loop, and your ISP will kill you. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: CE for components?
Please take a look at: http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/guides/chapsix.htm John Radomski Schneider Electric This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Do you realize how annoying it is?
Excellent suggestion. Thanks. Ghery From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:50 AM To: Pettit, Ghery; 'Hudson, Alan'; 'EMC-pstc (E-mail)' Subject: RE: Do you realize how annoying it is? At the risk of perpetuating this thread, Any reasonable email software can set rules that automatically files email replies. For example the OOF replies?..they are automatically routed to my Deleted Items. Not too much of a hassle.. Best Regards Charles Grasso Senior Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:33 AM To: Hudson, Alan; EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Do you realize how annoying it is? Alan, I'm afraid you are tilting at windmills. Many (most?) of us participate in this forum from work and alternate e-mail addresses aren't practical. Secondly, we turn on the out of office agents for business reasons and can't filter whether they are sent based on the sender of the message (although that would be a good feature - Microsoft, are you listening?). I can think of at least two good reasons to have the filter. One is to eliminate the annoying OOP messages on this and other groups and the second would be to (and this would be a bit more challenging) prevent automatic replies to spammers when you're out, verifying to them that your e-mail address is valid. Ghery S. Pettit Intel Corporation From: Hudson, Alan [mailto:alan.hud...@amsjv.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:41 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: Do you realise how annoying it is? Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Would the people that have Out of the Office autoreplies set please do one of the following: (a) Turn Autoreply off! (I've never seen a need for it myself, and what did they do before they had it?) (b) If you can't/won't turn it off then unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list and re-subscribe using another email address with an emailer which doesn't have Autoreply turned on (let's face it, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of free email addresses available). A small effort on one person's part to setup another address (or to turn off Autoreply) would save hundreds (thousands?) of subscribers having to make the effort to eliminate/filter unwanted Out of office messages. ...or we could be very nasty and make a list of all subscribers who have Autoreply set, and route spam to them for a change (because that's what it is - unwanted junk mail) - when they're back in the office of course. Rant off Oh God! It's just occurred to me - if I send this I'm going to get another load of Out of Office messages! ...but at least it's not July 4th (think of the pointless OOF replies clogging the internet then!), and it's a Monday after all. :-) Oh God (again)! It's just occurred to me - the OOF people won't be reading this message. Sob :-( Alan This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald:
RE: Do you realize how annoying it is?
At the risk of perpetuating this thread, Any reasonable email software can set rules that automatically files email replies. For example the OOF replies?..they are automatically routed to my Deleted Items. Not too much of a hassle.. Best Regards Charles Grasso Senior Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com; Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:33 AM To: Hudson, Alan; EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Do you realize how annoying it is? Alan, I'm afraid you are tilting at windmills. Many (most?) of us participate in this forum from work and alternate e-mail addresses aren't practical. Secondly, we turn on the out of office agents for business reasons and can't filter whether they are sent based on the sender of the message (although that would be a good feature - Microsoft, are you listening?). I can think of at least two good reasons to have the filter. One is to eliminate the annoying OOP messages on this and other groups and the second would be to (and this would be a bit more challenging) prevent automatic replies to spammers when you're out, verifying to them that your e-mail address is valid. Ghery S. Pettit Intel Corporation From: Hudson, Alan [mailto:alan.hud...@amsjv.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:41 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: Do you realise how annoying it is? Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Would the people that have Out of the Office autoreplies set please do one of the following: (a) Turn Autoreply off! (I've never seen a need for it myself, and what did they do before they had it?) (b) If you can't/won't turn it off then unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list and re-subscribe using another email address with an emailer which doesn't have Autoreply turned on (let's face it, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of free email addresses available). A small effort on one person's part to setup another address (or to turn off Autoreply) would save hundreds (thousands?) of subscribers having to make the effort to eliminate/filter unwanted Out of office messages. ...or we could be very nasty and make a list of all subscribers who have Autoreply set, and route spam to them for a change (because that's what it is - unwanted junk mail) - when they're back in the office of course. Rant off Oh God! It's just occurred to me - if I send this I'm going to get another load of Out of Office messages! ...but at least it's not July 4th (think of the pointless OOF replies clogging the internet then!), and it's a Monday after all. :-) Oh God (again)! It's just occurred to me - the OOF people won't be reading this message. Sob :-( Alan This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and
RE: Do you realize how annoying it is?
Lotus Notes does allow users to exclude specified individuals or groups of people from receiving the out of office auto-reply. I'd be surprised if other email products with the out of office auto-reply option don't have a similar feature. Check the tools for the product you are using Jim Hulbert Pitney Bowes This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Do you realize how annoying it is?
Pettit, Ghery wrote: I'm afraid you are tilting at windmills. Many (most?) of us participate in this forum from work and alternate e-mail addresses aren't practical. I'll let that one pass, as I don't remember off-hand if you can subscribe to emc-pstc from a web-based email address. (...and anyone with internet access from work can set up and view a web-based account!). Secondly, we turn on the out of office agents for business reasons What about asking the IT dept to create an email account for a new employee, who's just started today, mailing.list@my_company.com, and using that username to subscribe (making sure that mailing.list user has his autoreply turned off)? MS have a lot to answer for... providing an autoreply facility is one of them (however did we manage before it?)! Well, I'll catch up on all this when I get back - I'm actually (really!) out-of-the-office for a week. ...and no, my autoreply is not set! :-) Alan -- Predestination was doomed from the start. This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
CE without LVD (Thank You)
It never seizes to amaze me the amount and depth of knowledge this group holds. Even though the future plan of the LVD was not the original topic, all of your responses on this subject were very informative. Again, thank you, David Cereceres Safety Engineer Pelco This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Do you realise how annoying it is?
-Original Message- From: Hudson, Alan [ mailto:alan.hud...@amsjv.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:41 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: Do you realise how annoying it is? Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Alan: The bright side is that all of these out-of-office postings give you great leads as to where you can raid offices for office supplies. I haven't had to formally requisition paper or staples or pens in years. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty
Russian Gost-R Mark: EMC requirements for IT equipment
Hello Group, does anybody know the Russian EMC-Standards and their equivalent CISPR- resp. IEC/EN-Standards mandatory for the GOST-R mark for IT equipment? Many thanks in advance and best regards. Helmut Koester Electronic Development PSi Printer Systems international GmbH Eiserfelder Strasse 316 D-57080 Siegen, Germany mailto:h.koes...@psi-si.de web: www.psi-si.de This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Do you realize how annoying it is?
Alan, I'm afraid you are tilting at windmills. Many (most?) of us participate in this forum from work and alternate e-mail addresses aren't practical. Secondly, we turn on the out of office agents for business reasons and can't filter whether they are sent based on the sender of the message (although that would be a good feature - Microsoft, are you listening?). I can think of at least two good reasons to have the filter. One is to eliminate the annoying OOP messages on this and other groups and the second would be to (and this would be a bit more challenging) prevent automatic replies to spammers when you're out, verifying to them that your e-mail address is valid. Ghery S. Pettit Intel Corporation From: Hudson, Alan [mailto:alan.hud...@amsjv.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:41 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: Do you realise how annoying it is? Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Would the people that have Out of the Office autoreplies set please do one of the following: (a) Turn Autoreply off! (I've never seen a need for it myself, and what did they do before they had it?) (b) If you can't/won't turn it off then unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list and re-subscribe using another email address with an emailer which doesn't have Autoreply turned on (let's face it, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of free email addresses available). A small effort on one person's part to setup another address (or to turn off Autoreply) would save hundreds (thousands?) of subscribers having to make the effort to eliminate/filter unwanted Out of office messages. ...or we could be very nasty and make a list of all subscribers who have Autoreply set, and route spam to them for a change (because that's what it is - unwanted junk mail) - when they're back in the office of course. Rant off Oh God! It's just occurred to me - if I send this I'm going to get another load of Out of Office messages! ...but at least it's not July 4th (think of the pointless OOF replies clogging the internet then!), and it's a Monday after all. :-) Oh God (again)! It's just occurred to me - the OOF people won't be reading this message. Sob :-( Alan This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Do you realise how annoying it is?
Rant on I know it's been mentioned before, but I'm having a bad day so I'll mention it again. You do someone the courtesy of replying to their enquiry in this useful group, or you post a query, and what do you get? Umpteen (16 in the last 3 hours) I'm out of the office messages from people you didn't know existed, never mind wanted to know if they were in or out. Would the people that have Out of the Office autoreplies set please do one of the following: (a) Turn Autoreply off! (I've never seen a need for it myself, and what did they do before they had it?) (b) If you can't/won't turn it off then unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list and re-subscribe using another email address with an emailer which doesn't have Autoreply turned on (let's face it, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of free email addresses available). A small effort on one person's part to setup another address (or to turn off Autoreply) would save hundreds (thousands?) of subscribers having to make the effort to eliminate/filter unwanted Out of office messages. ...or we could be very nasty and make a list of all subscribers who have Autoreply set, and route spam to them for a change (because that's what it is - unwanted junk mail) - when they're back in the office of course. Rant off Oh God! It's just occurred to me - if I send this I'm going to get another load of Out of Office messages! ...but at least it's not July 4th (think of the pointless OOF replies clogging the internet then!), and it's a Monday after all. :-) Oh God (again)! It's just occurred to me - the OOF people won't be reading this message. Sob :-( Alan This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
HP Equipment Manuals
Hi All, Can anyone point me to a source for HP equipment manuals, ideally, downloadable Thanks, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
RE: HP Equipment Manuals
Derek: Please go to following link and type concerned model no. into quick search. http://www.agilent.com http://www.agilent.com With best regards, Harpreet Sidhu EMC Radio Engineer +1 408 586 6210 Direct Line +1 408 586 6299 Fax harpreet.si...@cetecomusa.com www.cetecom.com From: lfresea...@aol.com [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 6:13 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: HP Equipment Manuals Hi All, Can anyone point me to a source for HP equipment manuals, ideally, downloadable Thanks, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
re: CE without LVD?
John,
Ah! but there is such a thing as information overload!
Richard
From: john.al...@era.co.uk [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:20 PM
To: richhug...@aol.com; nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: CE without LVD?
Richard
Not arguing the point either way!
Just adding to the pot of information (or so I thought!)
My general reaction to this type of situation is:
- The left hand?
- The right hand??
- The one in the middle???
(think about it!)
Regards
John Allen
From: richhug...@aol.com [mailto:richhug...@aol.com]
Sent: 30 June 2003 13:22
To: john.al...@era.co.uk; nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: CE without LVD?
John,
If proof were needed that one branch of the Commission doesn't know what the
other branch is doing then [COM(2003) 252 Final, of 12 May 2003] is it.
All I can say is that many times now I have sat in rooms in Brussels with
the European Commission; the DTI and their counterparts in other Member
States; industry representatives, consumer groups; and standards bodies
where the revision of the LVD has been under discussion in the Working
Group LVD Update since May 2001 {in fact, even before that if you take into
account the discussions within the full LVD Working Party (Working Party of
Governmental Experts on Directive 73/23/EEC}. As indicated in my message
late last Friday, the Commission ARE producing a draft revision to the LVD
that goes down to zero volts. As I also indicated before, it is not (quite)
a done deal that the LVD will do down to zero volts with the upper voltage
limits remaining the same (unlike the RTTED, which has now lower limits and
no higher limits either).
I have previously provided this group with the latest information on the
changes to the LVD that, to my knowledge, exists within the public domain.
Of course John, if you want a second opinion then please contact the DTI
yourself: subsequently, please let this group know I was correct all along.
Thanks,
Richard Hughes
Safety Answers Ltd.
_
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Turkey Regulations
G'Day! It's been asked before I'm sure, but a search of the emc-pstc archive at https://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc produced nothing. Actually literally nothing - no results for any search whatsoever that I tried, even for stuff I KNOW was posted about last year - does the search engine work? (Or maybe it was just me operating it!). So: Are there any statutory regulations in Turkey regarding EMC (and safety), i.e are there any equivalents of EU CE-marking Directives in Turkey (who isn't a member of the EU yet)? I want to deliver a 1-off ITE-based system (i.e. not telecomm) to Turkey, and wondered if EU CE-marking procedures/standards would suffice? Regards, Alan -- Not a morning person doesn't even BEGIN to cover it. This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CE without LVD?
Richard
Not arguing the point either way!
Just adding to the pot of information (or so I thought!)
My general reaction to this type of situation is:
- The left hand?
- The right hand??
- The one in the middle???
(think about it!)
Regards
John Allen
From: richhug...@aol.com [mailto:richhug...@aol.com]
Sent: 30 June 2003 13:22
To: john.al...@era.co.uk; nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: CE without LVD?
John,
If proof were needed that one branch of the Commission doesn't know what the
other branch is doing then [COM(2003) 252 Final, of 12 May 2003] is it.
All I can say is that many times now I have sat in rooms in Brussels with the
European Commission; the DTI and their counterparts in other Member States;
industry representatives, consumer groups; and standards bodies where the
revision of the LVD has been under discussion in the Working Group LVD
Update since May 2001 {in fact, even before that if you take into account the
discussions within the full LVD Working Party (Working Party of Governmental
Experts on Directive 73/23/EEC}. As indicated in my message late last Friday,
the Commission ARE producing a draft revision to the LVD that goes down to
zero volts. As I also indicated before, it is not (quite) a done deal that
the LVD will do down to zero volts with the upper voltage limits remaining the
same (unlike the RTTED, which has now lower limits and no higher limits
either).
I have previously provided this group with the latest information on the
changes to the LVD that, to my knowledge, exists within the public domain.
Of course John, if you want a second opinion then please contact the DTI
yourself: subsequently, please let this group know I was correct all along.
Thanks,
Richard Hughes
Safety Answers Ltd.
_
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning
Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit
http://www.mci.com
*
Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2003. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved.
The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated
in confidence.
No liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss or damage
suffered as a result of accessing this message or any attachments.
_
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning
Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit
http://www.mci.com
RE: Czech medical grounding?
there is some consideration of this hazard in the EN-60601-1-1 Standard for Safety of Medical Electrical Systems Ged Dean From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 29 June 2003 09:51 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Czech medical grounding? I read in !emc-pstc that Jon Griver jgri...@601help.com wrote (in 3EFEAC1E.19777.64DE86@localhost) about 'Czech medical grounding?' on Sun, 29 Jun 2003: Theoretically, it could also be necessary for battery powered equipment connected via a communication line to equipment in another room. If the patient were to accidently touch the metal enclosure, a current loop could be closed, if the connection caused the enclosure to be earthed at a potential different from that of other equipment to which the patient may be connected. This is more than 'theoretical'. The hazard presented by introducing a 'remote earth/ground' into an area is not documented in any standards or guides, AFAIK, and is thus not widely recognized. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. NCHT ** This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: CE without LVD?
John,
If proof were needed that one branch of the Commission doesn't know what the
other branch is doing then [COM(2003) 252 Final, of 12 May 2003] is it.
All I can say is that many times now I have sat in rooms in Brussels with the
European Commission; the DTI and their counterparts in other Member States;
industry representatives, consumer groups; and standards bodies where the
revision of the LVD has been under discussion in the Working Group LVD
Update since May 2001 {in fact, even before that if you take into account the
discussions within the full LVD Working Party (Working Party of Governmental
Experts on Directive 73/23/EEC}. As indicated in my message late last Friday,
the Commission ARE producing a draft revision to the LVD that goes down to
zero volts. As I also indicated before, it is not (quite) a done deal that
the LVD will do down to zero volts with the upper voltage limits remaining the
same (unlike the RTTED, which has now lower limits and no higher limits
either).
I have previously provided this group with the latest information on the
changes to the LVD that, to my knowledge, exists within the public domain.
Of course John, if you want a second opinion then please contact the DTI
yourself: subsequently, please let this group know I was correct all along.
Thanks,
Richard Hughes
Safety Answers Ltd.
Re EU Language
We have discovered that products for China must be in Chinese except for Hong Kong as follows: GB/T 18287 (Chinese Government Sped pertaining to Li-Ion batteries for telecommunication devices) is not enforced for products to be sold in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is classed as a Special Administrative Region and does not fall under the requirements of this spec for Warning notes to be printed in the Chinese language. I have also been informed of the following It is known for a label to meet world-wide sale requirements it requires at least 6 languages (some are accepted standards others are Gov't specific), these are: English French (Gov't requirement of France and Canada. Quebec has additional requirement that French must be the principal language on the label) Spanish Portuguese (Gov't requirement of Brazil) Simplified Chinese Chinese (Gov't requirement of China) Is there a known site that details these requirements? Regards Keith Spicer From: Stephen Irving [mailto:sirv...@lutron.com] Sent: 05 May 2003 14:55 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; gera...@zoom.com Cc: Bob Spehalski Subject: RE: EU Language requirements for Manuals I am involved in a similar language project. Like Gerald, I am finding that these rules come from governmental legislation (not just from project standards or EU directives). Legislation is often more difficult to track down than standards, and I believe it would be useful to most people on this list if we were to begin to establish a list of known requirements. Is anyone aware of similar language requirements elsewhere in the world? In the Canadian Provence of Quebec, just about all product literature is required to be in French. This requirement comes from the Charter of the French Language, and is available online at http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/english/charter/title1chapter7.html. Best regards, Steve Gerald Tammi gera...@zoom.com 5/1/2003 9:51:33 AM I have just gone through a major project as it applies to language. The EU directives only require that the manuals (user and service) and the DoC be in an official language of the EU (13 possibilities). However it gives the local countries the authority to impose additional if not contradictive regulations. As a compromise, there is an informal brief DoC in thirteen languages that can be inserted in the manual that will cover most circumstances. In the case of Spain, they require that the user and service manuals be printed in the official language of Spain (Castilian). The also require that there be an official full signed printed DoC in Castilian be in the manual. If not the manufacture or importer of the product can be fined. This requirement is not in any EU document, but is buried in the rules and regulations under royal decree (be prepare it is available only in Spanish). I had to read a total of about 1200 pages of Spanish law to find the regulations I have not yet come up with any other country regulations regarding specific language requirements Keith Spicer This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
