RE: Query on dealing with BSMI for EMC

[alain.samlai (岑國綸)]

Dear Jim,

 

As far as I understand BSMI, BSMI only regulates standards (the S) and
inspections (the I).

For laboratory accreditation, you may need to contact the Taiwan Accreditation
Foundation (TAF) or ILAC for MRA.

 

Hope this may be of some help.

Alain

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Knighten, Jim L
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 5:29 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Query on dealing with BSMI for EMC

 

Esteemed experienced colleagues,

My company has a NVLAP-accredited EMC test laboratory in California.  My
product is ITE equipment (high value, low volume) and does not include
telecom.  My method of certification is usually the Declaration of Conformity.
 I understand that I can request my scope of accreditation be increased by
NVLAP to include Taiwan’s CNS 13438.  

I am struggling to understand the process to follow in dealing with Taiwan. 
Do I need to become a BSMI (Taiwan) recognized laboratory and get a lab
number?  If so, how do I proceed?

I appreciate any enlightenment.

Jim

__

James L. Knighten, Ph.D.

EMC Engineer

Teradata Corporation

17095 Via Del Campo

San Diego, CA 92127

858-485-2537 – phone

213-337-5432 – fax

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RE: C-tick approvals

[Kevin Richardson]

Michael,
 
Under Australian product compliance legislation/regulations anyone importing a
product into Australia is responsible for the compliance of that device with
all applicable compliance regulations.  As such, if you do not have a local
office then each and every importer of your product is responsible for the
compliance of the product they import and supply into the Australian market.
 
Australian product compliance regulations allow an importer to appoint an
Agent, by way of written agreement, to assume responsibility for compliance. 
this is the only alternative.  There is no recognition under the Australian
regulations of any relationship/agreement of any one in Australia with the
overseas supplier.
 
For more information on arrangements concerning Agents you may wish to review
the information at www.stanimore.com/agent.htm
 


Best regards, 
Kevin Richardson 

Stanimore Pty Limited 
Compliance Advice & Solutions for Technology 
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services) 
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) 
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) 
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) 
Email:kevin.richard...@stanimore.comorkevin.richard...@ieee.org 
URL: www.stanimore.com 

This material (this message and the information contained in all attachments
to this message) is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended
only for the addressee/s named above. Any unauthorised dissemination, copying,
use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the
addressee/s named above is prohibited. If you receive this material in error,
please notify Stanimore Pty Limited and destroy all copies (electronic and
hardcopy) of this message and all attachments immediately.

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Michael
Garretson
Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2008 8:18 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: C-tick approvals



Greetings listmembers,

 

I have a request to obtain C-Tick approvals for a computer platform we
manufacture.

I have been told that we need to have in-country representation in 
order to
secure and maintain this approval.

We don’t currently have offices there and don’t intend to work with a
distributor.  Our sales will be directly to a multinational company who will
deploy and support it.

If my customer isn’t keen on owning the cert, what are my options?

 

Michael Garretson
Compliance Engineer



Work: +1 503 615-1515
Fax: +1 503 615-1285
Email: michael.garret...@radisys.com  

 

RadiSys Corporation
5445 NW Dawson Creek Dr
 Hillsboro, OR 97124
USA

See who we know in common  

Want a signature like this?  

 

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RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Brian O'Connell]

Python 2.4.2
following from CSDS proposal for UL 1642

Subject 1642
Bulletin Dated: May 23, 2008
SUMMARY OF TOPICS
The following is being proposed for preliminary review and
comment only:
1. For Preliminary Review Only: Replace the Term "Component Cell"
with The Term "Cell" in 21.2
2. For Preliminary Review Only: Revise "Fully Discharged" and Add
"Completely Discharged" to the Glossary
3. For Preliminary Review Only: Removal of Redundant Tests and
Clarification of User Replaceable
4. For Preliminary Review Only: Removal of Redundant Information
for Sample Requirements
5. For Preliminary Review Only: Temperature Monitoring for
Technician Safety
6. For Preliminary Review Only: Clarification of the Short
Circuit Test
7. For Preliminary Review Only: Clarification of the Abnormal
Charging Test
8. For Preliminary Review Only: Clarification of "Ultimate
Results Criteria"
9. For Preliminary Review Only: Criteria for Crush Test
10. For Preliminary Review Only: Conversion to SI Units and
Inclusion of Tolerances
11. For Preliminary Review Only: Correction of Units in
Temperature Measurement and Additional Criteria for Heating Test
for Additional Battery Chemistries
12. For Preliminary Review Only: New Section 22 for Primary
Battery Markings
13. For Preliminary Review Only: New Section 23 for Secondary
Battery Markings
14. For Preliminary Review Only: Revise Appendix A
15. For Preliminary Review Only: Revise 2.3.2 to Include an
Exception for PTCs Explaining How to Evaluate an Internal PTC Not
Evaluated to UL 1434 Requirements

following from CSDS proposal for UL2054

Subject 2054
Bulletin Dated: May 23, 2008
SUMMARY OF TOPICS
The following is being proposed for preliminary review and
comment only:
1. For Preliminary Review Only: Replace "Component Cell" with
"Cell" Throughout the Standard
2. For Preliminary Review Only: Deletion of "User Replaceable"
for Secondary Lithium Cells
3. For Preliminary Review Only: Addition of the Definition for
"Completely Discharged" and "Enclosure" to the Glossary; Revision
to the Definition of "Casing" for Clarification
4. For Preliminary Review Only: Battery Construction
5. For Preliminary Review Only: Editorial Changes for 6.3
6. For Preliminary Review Only: Short-Circuit Test
7. For Preliminary Review Only: Abnormal Charging Test
8. For Preliminary Review Only: Abusive Overcharge Test
9. For Preliminary Review Only: Forced-Discharge Test
10. For Preliminary Review Only: Clarification of Limited Power
11. For Preliminary Review Only: Addition of Battery Pack
Component Temperature Test as New Section 13A and Addition of
Battery Pack Surface Temperature Test as New Section 13B
12. For Preliminary Review Only: Criteria for Crush Test
13. For Preliminary Review Only: Conversion to SI Units and
Inclusion of Tolerances
14. For Preliminary Review Only: Tests to Evaluate Battery Pack
Metallic Enclosures
15. For Preliminary Review Only: Battery Enclosure Tests
16. For Preliminary Review Only: Mold Stress Release Test
17. For Preliminary Review Only: Drop Impact Testing for Low
Temperatures
18. For Preliminary Review Only: Battery Storage Temperature
19. For Preliminary Review Only: Marking and Instructions
20. For Preliminary Review Only: New Section 26 for Markings and
Instructions for Secondary Lithium Battery Packs
21. For Preliminary Review Only: Addition of Appendix A

My comments:
UL 1642 provides test requirement for following electrical tests:

Short-Circuit at room and elevated temps
Abnormal Charge 
Forced Discharge
UL 1642 provides test requirement for following mechanical tests
Crush
Impact
Shock
Vibration
UL 1642 provides test requirement for following environmental
tests
Heating
Temperature Cycling
Altitude Simulation

So what other type tests should be added ? I feel it is the
tester and/or the person that 'designs' the test that cannot be
relied upon, not necessarily the standard.

luck,
Brian 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of
Jim
Eichner
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:42 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Cc: Jim Eichner
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Does anybody have any insight into the changes that those
standards are
going to make in light of the incidents and recalls?  If we can't
rely
on UL2054's requirements, and want to apply additional testing or
requirements to UL2054 battery packs, then it would be helpful to
know
where that standard is headed. 

Jim Eichner, P.Eng.
Compliance Engineering Manager
Xantrex Technology Inc.
e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com
web: www.xantrex.com  

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RE: C-tick approvals

[Aldous, Scott]

Hi Michael,

 

There are agents both in Australia and New Zealand that you can use for this.
They would then issue the declaration, and hold the compliance folder, and you
could mark your product with the C-Tick together with the agent’s supplier
code. They will charge you an up front fee, and an annual fee thereafter to
maintain the folder.

 

You can probably google around for agents. One that I have seen used a lot for
ITE in my previous job is Qualsure Consultants. There are quite a few others
also. Useful information at these sites:

 

http://www.acma.gov.au/web/STANDARD//pc%3DPC_100964
 

 

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legisla
ion/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/0037BC
72B3EF925CA2573E1000FA6AC/$file/RadcomLabellingElectromagCompNotice2008.pdf

 

Scott Aldous

Compliance Engineer

Advanced Energy

Tel: 970-407-6872

Fax: 970-407-5872



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Garretson
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:18 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: C-tick approvals

 

Greetings listmembers,

 

I have a request to obtain C-Tick approvals for a computer platform we
manufacture.

I have been told that we need to have in-country representation in order to
secure and maintain this approval.

We don’t currently have offices there and don’t intend to work with a
distributor.  Our sales will be directly to a multinational company who will
deploy and support it.

If my customer isn’t keen on owning the cert, what are my options?

 

Michael Garretson
Compliance Engineer

Work: +1 503 615-1515
Fax: +1 503 615-1285
Email: michael.garret...@radisys.com  

 

RadiSys Corporation
5445 NW Dawson Creek Dr
 Hillsboro, OR 97124
USA

See who we know in common  

Want a signature like this?  

 

This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is
confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its
attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 
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Re: C-tick approvals

[Alex Horvath]

I just went through this and most domestic certification labs either have or
work with reps down under.

I explored finding an AU rep independently of a domestic lab and found that
it's much easier and cheaper to use a domestic cert lab to file the paperwork.

 

 




From: Michael Garretson 
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 3:17:48 PM
Subject: C-tick approvals



Greetings listmembers,

 

I have a request to obtain C-Tick approvals for a computer platform we
manufacture.

I have been told that we need to have i n-country representation in order to
secure and maintain this approval.

We don¢t currently have offices there and don¢t intend to work with a
distributor.  Our sales will be directly to a multinational company who will
deploy and support it.

If my customer isn¢t keen on owning the cert, what are my options?

 

Michael Garretson
Compliance Engineer



Work: +1 503 615-1515
Fax: +1 503 615-1285
Email: michael.garret...@radisys.com  

 

RadiSys Corporation
5445 NW Dawson Creek Dr
 Hillsboro , OR 97124
USA

See who we know in common  

Want a signature like this?  

 

-  This
message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

To post a message to the list, sen d your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org 

Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html 

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RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Jim Eichner]

Does anybody have any insight into the changes that those standards are
going to make in light of the incidents and recalls?  If we can't rely
on UL2054's requirements, and want to apply additional testing or
requirements to UL2054 battery packs, then it would be helpful to know
where that standard is headed. 

Jim Eichner, P.Eng.
Compliance Engineering Manager
Xantrex Technology Inc.
e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com
web: www.xantrex.com  

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
copies of the original message.



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Xe
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:30 AM
To: kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com; rpick...@rpqconsulting.com;
oconne...@tamuracorp.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Richard,

If you want to prevent the battery pack from explosion/fire, compliance
of
those standards might not accomplish it for the time being.  UL 2054, UL
1642 and UL 60950-1 were prepared and published before Sony's battery
recall.  All the standards are being revised to address the issue.
After a
large scale of Sony's battery recall, the Li-ion battery pack continues
to
explode and catch fire in a smaller scale.  The users are awaiting the
new
replacement of battery pack or a firm solution to the probable explosion
of
existing Li-ion battery pack.

Regards.

Scott


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:24 AM
To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com; oconne...@tamuracorp.com;
emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Also.For end use systems seeking compliance with UL 60950-1, see
Annex P.1 with reference to cl. 4.3.8

Kaz
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron
Pickard, RPQ
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM
To: 'Brian O'Connell'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Richard,

 

IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a removable
battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL
2054. I
say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone application,
please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for lithium
batteries.

Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:

 

- These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and
secondary
(rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or more
cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical
energy
into electrical energy by chemical reaction.

- These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or
explosion
when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these batteries
in a
particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product
that
complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.

- These requirements are intended to cover batteries for general use and
do
not include the combination of the battery and the host product which
are
covered by requirements in the host product

standard.

- These requirements are also intended to reduce the risk of injury to
persons due to fire or explosion when batteries are removed from a
product
to be transported, stored, or discarded.

- These requirements do not cover the toxicity risk that results from
the
ingestion of a battery or its contents, nor the risk of injury to
persons
that occurs if a battery is cut open to provide access to its contents.

 

The battery manufacturer would quite likely be already aware of all of
this.
They would be the one to approach for getting this work done.

 

Also, in addition to what Brian stated about shipping, the US and
international shipping authorities have specific testing and labeling
requirements for lithium batteries or products containing lithium
batteries.
Testing involves the UN T1-T8 tests.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

7372 West Luke Avenue

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com  

 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
O'Connell
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:21 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

 

The following are personal opinions only.

 

In general, conformity to the applicable standard is always

"necessary"; but not always 'required'. In any case, note that UL

1642 is scoped specifically for Li batte

C-tick approvals

[Michael Garretson]

Greetings listmembers,

 

I have a request to obtain C-Tick approvals for a computer platform we
manufacture.

I have been told that we need to have in-country representation in order to
secure and maintain this approval.

We don’t currently have offices there and don’t intend to work with a
distributor.  Our sales will be directly to a multinational company who will
deploy and support it.

If my customer isn’t keen on owning the cert, what are my options?

 

Michael Garretson
Compliance Engineer



Work: +1 503 615-1515
Fax: +1 503 615-1285
Email: michael.garret...@radisys.com  

 

RadiSys Corporation
5445 NW Dawson Creek Dr
 Hillsboro, OR 97124
USA

See who we know in common  

Want a signature like this?  

 

-  This
message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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Composite materials for > 1 GHz testing

[Powell, Doug]

I have an out of the weather application want to build non-conductive tables. 
The testing will be for radiated immunity and emissions above 1 GHz.

 

I know about the IEEE paper for 2001 and it has some good suggestions
(polystyrene) and I found some more recent information in the EMC-PSTC
archives.

 

I would like to know if anyone has had experience with composite lumber
commonly available in local hardware stores and lumber yards.  For example:
http://www.correctdeck.com/products/dcl/

 

Any good or bad experiences?

 

 

 

 

 

-doug

 

Douglas E. Powell
Engineering Manager
Corporate Product Compliance
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.

 

 

This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is
confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its
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DO160E Cat Y testing

[Derek Walton]

Can anyone forward the names and/or costs of doing DO160E CatY Radiated 
testing lease. I'm trying to collect budgetary numbers and facilities 
for a proposal.

Perhaps an off line reply would be best.

Thanks,

Derek Walton
L F Research

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 David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

OSHA / Safety Manual Requirements

[jeff collins]

 

Group,

 

How do you/your company know if the instructions in your safety manual meet
OSHA requirements?

 

We are presently writing the User/Install/Maintenance manual for a new
technology product and need to ensure the instructions meet OSHA requirements
for the user/craftsman. 

 

 

 

Do you know of any one that is an expert / consultant in this area.

 

 

Thanks in advance!
 
Jeff Collins
Regulatory Compliance & Reliability 


-  This
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Query on dealing with BSMI for EMC

[Knighten, Jim L]

Esteemed experienced colleagues,

My company has a NVLAP-accredited EMC test laboratory in California.  My
product is ITE equipment (high value, low volume) and does not include
telecom.  My method of certification is usually the Declaration of Conformity.
 I understand that I can request my scope of accreditation be increased by
NVLAP to include Taiwan’s CNS 13438.  

I am struggling to understand the process to follow in dealing with Taiwan. 
Do I need to become a BSMI (Taiwan) recognized laboratory and get a lab
number?  If so, how do I proceed?

I appreciate any enlightenment.

Jim

__

James L. Knighten, Ph.D.

EMC Engineer

Teradata Corporation

17095 Via Del Campo

San Diego, CA 92127

858-485-2537 – phone

213-337-5432 – fax

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EUP Legislation

[Tyra, John]

Hello everyone,

 

Can anyone suggest a consultant in Europe who is plugged into the evolving
Energy Using Products  legislation machinery in the EU who would be able to
keep us up to date on things they evolve??

 

We have resources here in the States and are involved in things developing
here but need someone in the EU to be our eyes and ears……..

 

Please e-mail me privately……

 

Regards,

 

John Tyra

Bose Corporation

The Mountain, MS-450

Framingham, MA 01701-9168

phone: 508-476-7741

fax: 508-766-1145

 

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RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Tyra, John]

Also be aware that the DENAN law in Japan has been amended so that some
Lithium Ion Batteries are now regulated.

Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) has added
"Lithium batteries:" into a list of regulated DENAN products. The new
requirements for Lithium batteries will be implemented on November 20,
2008. 

Scope: Lithium batteries with its internal energy of 400Wh/L or higher
are regulated by DENAN as Non-Specified Product (NSP). NSP requires a
PSE Mark (PSE in a circle). Compliance with DENAN Technical Requirements
Appendix 9 may be confirmed by a third party testing or manufacturer's
own testing. Test reports (and/or certificates) may be required upon
request from METI. Lithium batteries physically detached from an end
product in a package are covered by DENAN. Replacement Lithium batteries
are covered by DENAN.

Applicable standards are JIS C8712 and C8714 which are similar, but not
identical to IEC 62133 Standard (or UL1642). Due to METI's concern about
recent accidents from Lithium batteries, JIS Standards include several
additional tests such as forced internal short circuit test. Therefore,
batteries which comply with UL Standard or IEC Standard need additional
tests to satisfy DENAN. I contacted METI on this issue and they
commented that English version of the requirements will be released this
month sometime


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott B.
Lacey
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:41 AM
To: Scott Xe
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Richard and Scott,

Interestingly, some years ago I worked on a 
project involving a reaction calorimeter. One 
use (for some customers) was to test battery 
chemistries for just this type of runaway 
condition.

The materials being tested were heated in a 
containment vessel until an exothermic 
reaction occurred. Temperature and pressure 
were both tracked throughout. The idea was 
to determine the conditions preceding a 
runaway reaction so that protection could be 
added to battery packs to keep them below 
the critical temperature and pressure.

I suspect the Li-ion failures involve a flaw in 
the protection scheme  implementation rather 
than a lack of understanding the mechanism 
of failure. In the meantime I would advise 
anyone using Lithium-ion batteries to avoid 
recharging heavily discharged ones until they 
have cooled for a while. The same goes for 
drawing high current immediately after a 
charge.

Scott B. Lacey

On 7 Jul 2008 at 22:29, Scott Xe wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> If you want to prevent the battery pack from explosion/fire,
compliance of
> those standards might not accomplish it for the time being.  UL 2054,
UL
> 1642 and UL 60950-1 were prepared and published before Sony's battery
> recall.  All the standards are being revised to address the issue.
After a
> large scale of Sony's battery recall, the Li-ion battery pack
continues to
> explode and catch fire in a smaller scale.  The users are awaiting the
new
> replacement of battery pack or a firm solution to the probable
explosion of
> existing Li-ion battery pack.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Scott
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:24 AM
> To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com; oconne...@tamuracorp.com;
emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Also.For end use systems seeking compliance with UL 60950-1, see
> Annex P.1 with reference to cl. 4.3.8
> 
> Kaz
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron
> Pickard, RPQ
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM
> To: 'Brian O'Connell'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Richard,
> 
>  
> 
> IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a
removable
> battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL
> 2054. I
> say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
> efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone
application,
> please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for
lithium
> batteries.
> 
> Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:
> 
>  
> 
> - These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and
> secondary
> (rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
> batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or
more
> cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical
> energy
> into electrical energy by chemical reaction.
> 
> - These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or
> explosion
> when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these
batteries
> in a
> particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product
> that
> complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.

RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Scott B. Lacey]

Richard and Scott,

Interestingly, some years ago I worked on a 
project involving a reaction calorimeter. One 
use (for some customers) was to test battery 
chemistries for just this type of runaway 
condition.

The materials being tested were heated in a 
containment vessel until an exothermic 
reaction occurred. Temperature and pressure 
were both tracked throughout. The idea was 
to determine the conditions preceding a 
runaway reaction so that protection could be 
added to battery packs to keep them below 
the critical temperature and pressure.

I suspect the Li-ion failures involve a flaw in 
the protection scheme  implementation rather 
than a lack of understanding the mechanism 
of failure. In the meantime I would advise 
anyone using Lithium-ion batteries to avoid 
recharging heavily discharged ones until they 
have cooled for a while. The same goes for 
drawing high current immediately after a 
charge.

Scott B. Lacey

On 7 Jul 2008 at 22:29, Scott Xe wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> If you want to prevent the battery pack from explosion/fire, compliance of
> those standards might not accomplish it for the time being.  UL 2054, UL
> 1642 and UL 60950-1 were prepared and published before Sony's battery
> recall.  All the standards are being revised to address the issue.  After a
> large scale of Sony's battery recall, the Li-ion battery pack continues to
> explode and catch fire in a smaller scale.  The users are awaiting the new
> replacement of battery pack or a firm solution to the probable explosion of
> existing Li-ion battery pack.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Scott
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:24 AM
> To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com; oconne...@tamuracorp.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Also.For end use systems seeking compliance with UL 60950-1, see
> Annex P.1 with reference to cl. 4.3.8
> 
> Kaz
> kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron
> Pickard, RPQ
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM
> To: 'Brian O'Connell'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries
> 
> Richard,
> 
>  
> 
> IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a removable
> battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL
> 2054. I
> say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
> efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone application,
> please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for lithium
> batteries.
> 
> Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:
> 
>  
> 
> - These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and
> secondary
> (rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
> batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or more
> cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical
> energy
> into electrical energy by chemical reaction.
> 
> - These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or
> explosion
> when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these batteries
> in a
> particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product
> that
> complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.
> 
> - These requirements are intended to cover batteries for general use and
> do
> not include the combination of the battery and the host product which
> are
> covered by requirements in the host product
> 
> standard.
> 
> - These requirements are also intended to reduce the risk of injury to
> persons due to fire or explosion when batteries are removed from a
> product
> to be transported, stored, or discarded.
> 
> - These requirements do not cover the toxicity risk that results from
> the
> ingestion of a battery or its contents, nor the risk of injury to
> persons
> that occurs if a battery is cut open to provide access to its contents.
> 
>  
> 
> The battery manufacturer would quite likely be already aware of all of
> this.
> They would be the one to approach for getting this work done.
> 
>  
> 
> Also, in addition to what Brian stated about shipping, the US and
> international shipping authorities have specific testing and labeling
> requirements for lithium batteries or products containing lithium
> batteries.
> Testing involves the UN T1-T8 tests.
> 
>  
> 
> IHTH.
> 
>  
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Pickard
> 
> RPQ Consulting
> 
> 7372 West Luke Avenue
> 
> Glendale, AZ 85303
> 
> +623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax
> 
> rpick...@rpqconsulting.com
> 
> www.rpqconsulting.com  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
> O'Connell
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:21 AM
> To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
> Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing fo

re: A Disk To Reduce EMI from Cell Phones?

[James, Chris]

This "new invention" goes back to 2001:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1574197.stm




This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose.  If you
are not the intended recipient, delete this message.  If you are
not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or
taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited.

-

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 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
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RE: A Disk To Reduce EMI from Cell Phones?

[Pettit, Ghery]

Hoax.  Rip off.  Snake oil.  And these are the polite terms.

Ghery Pettit



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott
Douglas
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 12:58 PM
To: 'EMC PSTC'
Subject: A Disk To Reduce EMI from Cell Phones?

Oh Mighty List,

Received an email from my sister with information about a product called

the Neutralizer which uses a "proprietary organic compound composed of 
natural earth elements which neutralizes the effect of man-made EMF 
exposure on human DNA". This product comes in the form of a sticker you 
can apply to your cell phone, computer monitor, etc. such that "human 
DNA can be protected from the damaging effects of RF/EMF". Somewhere I 
read that it does not block or absorb EMI, but "transforms" it into 
coherent and non-harmful radiation emulating "organic" radiation (my 
words here). I also read something about a holographic disk. All in all 
I was rather confused, like I was going in circles.

I am not doing a great job of explaining this product so I ask you to 
visit: http://www.energeticnutrition.com/hi/neutralizer.html and see for

yourselves. Scroll down to read all the material, especially the FAQ at 
the end. I also read one or two of the "research" papers here: 
http://www.aulterra.com/en-US/welcome/research.

I am not connected in any way with this product, except my sister bought

some disks. I am really curious to know if anyone on the list has ever 
heard of this product? Or would someone else go check out these web 
sites and let me know what you think? On the one hand, it sounds like 
the holy grail of EMI fixes. On the other hand, maybe I need to take out

a selling license for the product and plan to retire early.

All comments welcome, on or off list.

Best regards,

Scott Douglas
sdoug...@ptcnh.net

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-

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

[Scott Xe]

Richard,

If you want to prevent the battery pack from explosion/fire, compliance of
those standards might not accomplish it for the time being.  UL 2054, UL
1642 and UL 60950-1 were prepared and published before Sony's battery
recall.  All the standards are being revised to address the issue.  After a
large scale of Sony's battery recall, the Li-ion battery pack continues to
explode and catch fire in a smaller scale.  The users are awaiting the new
replacement of battery pack or a firm solution to the probable explosion of
existing Li-ion battery pack.

Regards.

Scott


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:24 AM
To: rpick...@rpqconsulting.com; oconne...@tamuracorp.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Also.For end use systems seeking compliance with UL 60950-1, see
Annex P.1 with reference to cl. 4.3.8

Kaz
kazimier_gawrzy...@dell.com



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ron
Pickard, RPQ
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM
To: 'Brian O'Connell'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

Richard,

 

IMHO, if the lithium batteries are user replaceable (such as a removable
battery pack), then they would need to be separately approved to UL
2054. I
say that because in my experience, UL has required it in past Listing
efforts of products with them. And, if this is a cell phone application,
please note that the CTIA has recently imposed requirements for lithium
batteries.

Supporting this, from UL2054's scope:

 

- These requirements cover portable primary (nonrechargeable) and
secondary
(rechargeable) batteries for use as power sources in products. These
batteries consist of either a single electrochemical cell or two or more
cells connected in series, parallel, or both, that convert chemical
energy
into electrical energy by chemical reaction.

- These requirements are intended to reduce the risk of fire or
explosion
when batteries are used in a product. The proper use of these batteries
in a
particular application is dependent on their use in a complete product
that
complies with the requirements applicable to such a product.

- These requirements are intended to cover batteries for general use and
do
not include the combination of the battery and the host product which
are
covered by requirements in the host product

standard.

- These requirements are also intended to reduce the risk of injury to
persons due to fire or explosion when batteries are removed from a
product
to be transported, stored, or discarded.

- These requirements do not cover the toxicity risk that results from
the
ingestion of a battery or its contents, nor the risk of injury to
persons
that occurs if a battery is cut open to provide access to its contents.

 

The battery manufacturer would quite likely be already aware of all of
this.
They would be the one to approach for getting this work done.

 

Also, in addition to what Brian stated about shipping, the US and
international shipping authorities have specific testing and labeling
requirements for lithium batteries or products containing lithium
batteries.
Testing involves the UN T1-T8 tests.

 

IHTH.

 

Best regards,

 

Ron Pickard

RPQ Consulting

7372 West Luke Avenue

Glendale, AZ 85303

+623.512-3451 tel, +623.848-9033 fax

rpick...@rpqconsulting.com

www.rpqconsulting.com  

 


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
O'Connell
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:21 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

 

The following are personal opinions only.

 

In general, conformity to the applicable standard is always

"necessary"; but not always 'required'. In any case, note that UL

1642 is scoped specifically for Li batteries

 

In particular, 'it depends'. Is the charger and end-use

installation a fire or shock hazard if a battery, dies a violent

death ? Is there any normal or abnormal operating condition in

the charger or the end-use install that could result in battery

damage/explosion/fire ?

 

Also, there are separate DOT requirements for the shipment of

some types of Lithium batteries.

 

luck,

Brian 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of

Gartman, Richard

Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:51 AM

To: emc-p...@ieee.org

Subject: RE: UL 2054 testing for lithium batteries

 

I am looking for when UL 2054 testing is necessary for

rechargeable lithium batteries?

 

Required on cell phone batteries?

Required on consumer electronic? 

 

All perspectives on rechargeable lithium batteries are welcome.

 

Thank you 

W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP

 

-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society

emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

 

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee

UK - new Machinery Regulations

[Nick Williams]

For those interested in the implementation of the new Machinery 
Directive 2006/42/EC (replacing 98/37/EC) in the UK, the Supply of 
Machinery (Safety) Regulations 2008 have now been published and are 
available from:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf/uksi_20081597_en.pdf

Regards

Nick.

-

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

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 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

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