[PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
Hello, For the FCC, their rules do state ANSI C63.4-2003 only. However, their website confirms you can use either 2003 and 2009. I can confirm that it is ok to use 2009. http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/eameasurements.html Changing the FCC rules is not a quick process. There is an FCC rule change proposal in place, to insert the 2009 version and remove the 2003 version. So, in summary, ANSI C63.4-2009 is ok for FCC and Industry Canada. Michael. Michael Derby Regulatory Engineer ACB Europe From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: 17 September 2013 16:35 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
The FCC will accept testing using ANSI C63.4:2009 also. See FCC DA-09-2478. Bill Stumpf D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc. 166 South Carter Street Genoa City WI 53128 Ph: 262-279-0210 From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:35 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.commailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] question on clause 6.3 and 1.4.11 of IEC60950-1
Zhang Guoqing - I'm not sure where to begin to respond to the below, so I'll limit my responses to the following. 1) §1.4.11 is in §1.4, General conditions for test, and presents an assumption about the nature of telecommunications networks in general. For the purposes of this standard, is not intended to provide a reference requirement to other standards or to place a specific requirement on the output of a TNV circuit. 2) ETSI and other standards are welcome to reference 60950-1, but this does not always equate to a perfect mapping of 60950-1 into those other standards. 3) The maximum current a circuit is capable of delivering is not necessarily (and typically is not) into a load identical to the Norton equivalent output impedance of the source circuit. 4) TNV circuits output characteristics are evaluated in §2.3. 5) I was a member of the Canada/US BiNational Working Group (BNWG) when the requirement in §6.3 was developed and had input into TC 74 through the TC 74 Chair, who was also a member of the BNWG. The same is true for §1.4.11. 6) If you're interested in further reading, consider UL 1863, which was one of the references used to develop the 1.3 A limit. Regards, Peter Tarver -Original Message- From: Zhangguoqing (A) [mailto:zhangguoq...@huawei.com] Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 19:05 To: Peter Tarver; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: 答复: [PSES] question on clause 6.3 and 1.4.11 of IEC60950-1 Dear Peter, Thanks for your reply. For this topic, my opinion is: --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - if it is declared and installed for power transmission, the power transmit / receive equipment will be installed by skilled person, and be installed in pairs. clause 6.3 should be the requirement for power transmit equipment, but 15VA should not be the requirement for power transmit equipment. so, the power distributed to and available from the TELECOMMUNICATION NETWORK will be larger than 15 VA. - if it is not declared and installed for power transmission, the power available from a TELECOMMUNICATION NETWORK is considered to be limited to 15 VA, and so the equipment connected to the TELECOMMUNICATION NETWORK ? does not need to comply with §4.6.4.3 ? does not need a fire enclosure for the connectors, per §4.7.2.2, 7th dashed paragraph ? does not need a fire enclosure for materials rated HB75 or HB40 less flammable (under specified conditions), per §4.7.2.2, 9th dashed paragraph, 2nd dotted subparagraph ? use the connector material exemption in §4.7.3.3, 3rd paragraph, 5th dashed subparagraph ? etc. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- But, in some ETSI standards, 15VA is a limit for power transmission equipment. The reason for this limit is interpreted as according to EN 60950-1 in those standards! For example, this sentence is extracted from clause 4.3 of ETSI TR 102 614 V1.1.1 (2010-06): 15 W is the limit according to EN 60950-1 [i.9] for the power on a telecommunication network and the A4 interface is be designed in order to limit the output current to a value that does not cause damage to the telecommunication wiring system due to overheating, under any load condition as required by the same EN 60950-1 [i.9]. The S/Pfilter should be dimensioned for the maximum current of 250 mA at 60 V. so, I am confused with this sentence. This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
Well, first, ANSI C63.4 is not a UL document, it is an ANSI standard published by IEEE. So there is no ANSI UL C63.4. That aside, the FCC KDB data base and DA-09-2478 confirm that either the 2003 or 2009 version can be used. There are differences, so a test lab cannot or should not assume that to test to one is to test to the other. If the 2009 version is used, then all testing is to be done to the 2009 version - you cannot mix and match between test methods and standards. Thanks Dennis Ward Senior Certification Engineer PCTEST This communication and its attachments contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient (s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:35 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
On the second part of the question about FCC and IC having the same test standards. Canada allows the use of ANSI C63.4 however, ICES-003 does say that is must be the latest addition. This only means that if both FCC and IC are being done, then the 2009 version would be the one used. As with the FCC defaulting to the rules in case of differences, IC has a caveat that any discrepancies between the requirements in ICES-003 or CISPR 22 or ANSI C63.4:2009, then the ICES wins. One common error in testing for both FCC and IC is the assumption that because the restricted bands for the US have been considered and measured that it covers Canada as well. This is not true as Canada does have several restricted bands that are different than the US. Thanks Dennis Ward Senior Certification Engineer PCTEST This communication and its attachments contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient (s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:35 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:52:05 +, Bill Stumpf bstu...@dlsemc.com wrote: The FCC will accept testing using ANSI C63.4:2009 also. See FCC DA-09-2478. And ICES-003 Issue 5 may still accept ANSI C63.4-2003, too. See footnote 2, which says Until further notice the use of ANSI C63.4-2003 is permitted in lieu of the latest edition of ANSI C63.4. Regards, Tom -- Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/ From: Ian McBurney [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:35 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USA Canada rf emission test standards Dear Colleagues; I am trying to combine FCC 47 CFR part 15 and Canadian ICES-003:2012 radiated rf emission testing for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator. However; looking into the test standards for each country I am getting perplexed. It appears that for 47 CFR part 15 sub part B, the test standard for compliance is ANSI UL C63.4 2003 whereas for Canada it is the latest edition that is acceptable which I believe is the ANSI UL C63.4 2009. Similarly; if I was to apply the CISPR 22 method then CFR47 part 15 recognises the third edition of CISPR 22 and Canada applies the 6 edition 2008. Is there a common set of standards that can be applied for radiated conducted rf emission measurements that is acceptable in both the USA Canada? I am carrying out measurements from 30MHz to 2GHz to class B limits. Many thanks in advance. Ian McBurney Design Compliance Engineer. Allen Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.commailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
