Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

[Scott]

This issue is half insulation/ accessibilty and reliability. Since you are 
going to use the relay in a safety interlock circuit it needs to be certified 
for a specific number of actuations. 

The failure mode for a relay is closed, welded, and in your avg everyday 
commercial model this occurs in less then 10,000 cycles.

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Kunde, Brian  wrote:
> 
> We have an application where during normal operation the user has access to a 
> 30 amp heating element driven by AC mains. We will interlock a door which 
> will drive a relay or contactor which will open both sides of the AC mains 
> going to the heating element to make it safe.
> 
> I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact spacing 
> and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?
> 
> We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
> dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).
> 
> We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
> dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts with 
> an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each meeting the 
> requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a combined spacing and 
> passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for double/reinforced.
> 
> So it would appear that the relay far exceeds the dielectric strength rating 
> the manufacturer's data sheet specifies. Is this common?
> 
> So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and physical 
> measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's specification?
> 
> Thanks for any and all replies.
> 
> Merry Christmas.
> 
> The Other Brian
> 
> 
> LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
> information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
> mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
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> Mike Cantwell 
> 
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Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

[McDiarmid, Ralph]

I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact 
spacing and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?

Sounds right


We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).

How about two Listed relays in series, each with independent coil drive? 
(single fault tolerance)


We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts 
with an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each 
meeting the requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a 
combined spacing and passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for 
double/reinforced.

Can the relay remain closed in a single fault scenario?


So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and 
physical measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's 
specification?

I'd use two Listed/Certified relays and then I'd analyze full circuit with 
FMEA and do a fault tree.  (above and beyond whatever tests the NRTL need 
done)

___ 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
  Regulatory Compliance Engineering 

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Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

Are you trying to protect against shock hazard or burn hazard or both?  Can you 
eliminate the shock  hazard with additional insulation or localized guarding?   
If the user potentially has direct access to hazardous voltages you probably 
have a very high PLr and need redundant contactors.  

How do you avoid the burn hazard or is the maximum temperature within 
touch-safe limits? Do you need guard door locking to prevent access until the 
temperature has dropped to safe levels?

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

We have an application where during normal operation the user has access to a 
30 amp heating element driven by AC mains. We will interlock a door which will 
drive a relay or contactor which will open both sides of the AC mains going to 
the heating element to make it safe.

I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact spacing 
and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?

We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).

We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts with 
an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each meeting the 
requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a combined spacing and 
passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for double/reinforced.

So it would appear that the relay far exceeds the dielectric strength rating 
the manufacturer's data sheet specifies. Is this common?

So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and physical 
measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's specification?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Merry Christmas.

The Other Brian


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[John Allen]

Charlie

 

That would be my reaction as well - which is why I would expect AV
specialists to question its application to their kit, and why the 62368-1
Scope needs clarification.

 

John Allen

 

From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:58
To: John Allen; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

 

I think EN 60905-22 is overkill for occasional use outdoors.

 

1 Scope

1.1 Equipment covered

This part of IEC 60950 applies to information technology equipment intended
to be installed in an OUTDOOR LOCATION.

 

The requirements for OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT also apply, where relevant, to empty
OUTDOOR ENCLOSURES supplied for housing information technology equipment to
be installed in an OUTDOOR LOCATION

 

3 Terms and definitions

For the purposes of this document, the terms and definitions given in IEC
60950-1 and the following apply.

3.1

OUTDOOR LOCATION

location for equipment where protection from the weather and other outdoor
influences provided by a building or other structure is limited or
non-existent

3.2

OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT 

equipment specified by the manufacturer to be installed where exposed wholly
or partly to the conditions in an OUTDOOR LOCATION

 

The product is designed to be used indoors, with occasional, portable, use
outdoors, then 60950-22 is not appropriate.

 

That said, you may want to make the equipment splash/drip proof, but that
would be more for functional / customer experience.

 

Regards

Charlie

 

From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] 
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:34
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

 

Good evening

 

I had the same idea as Ken re 60950-22 - and then got to thinking about
62368-1 which is replacing both 60065 & 60950, and the likelihood of  a
"Part XX" to that standard.?

 

Did a quick search on "62368 outdoor equipment" and no "Part XX" was flagged
up, but amongst the results was a link to this CSA page
http://shop.csa.ca/en/canada/it-telecom-and-audio-video-equipment/cancsa-c22
2-no-62368-1-14-/invt/27033302014

 

About 2/3rds of the way down that page it states the following:

 

"Additional requirements for information and communication technology
equipment intended for outdoor installation are given in CSA/UL 60950-22.
Additional requirements for audio/video equipment intended for outdoor
installation are given in the relevant requirements in CAN/CSA C22.2 No.
60065 or UL 60065." - so N.America is certainly "covered".

 

Presumably, however, the IEC Committees will (or should be!) working on a
suitable "Part XX" to 62368 - so does anyone have leads on that?

 

John Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:13
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

 

Hi Ken,

 

Thanks for your suggestion on 60950-22.  I did not know or have this
standard but had some search on internet and note that the standard is for
equipment intended for outdoors.  I doubt it is too tough for my said
equipment.  That is reason why I believe there may be different levels for
outdoor use equipment.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

 

On 23 Dec, 2015, at 12:40 am, IBM Ken  wrote:

 

Hi Scott, I don't have any experience in this area but have you looked at
60950-22?

 

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Scott Xe  wrote:

It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product
is powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but
can be used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally,
we use EN 60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety
standard covering the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product,
are there any defined levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product
to be used outdoor permanently?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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-


This message is from the IEEE 

Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

[Kunde, Brian]

Scott,

The relay we are looking to use is an Omron G7L series. It has a mechanical 
life expectancy of 5 million operations and 100,000 electrical operations.

We also use a SSR for control so the safety relay is never opened or closed 
while under load.

The Other Brian

-Original Message-
From: Scott [mailto:sbarro...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:25 PM
To: Kunde, Brian
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

This issue is half insulation/ accessibilty and reliability. Since you are 
going to use the relay in a safety interlock circuit it needs to be certified 
for a specific number of actuations.

The failure mode for a relay is closed, welded, and in your avg everyday 
commercial model this occurs in less then 10,000 cycles.

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Kunde, Brian  wrote:
>
> We have an application where during normal operation the user has access to a 
> 30 amp heating element driven by AC mains. We will interlock a door which 
> will drive a relay or contactor which will open both sides of the AC mains 
> going to the heating element to make it safe.
>
> I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact spacing 
> and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?
>
> We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
> dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).
>
> We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
> dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts with 
> an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each meeting the 
> requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a combined spacing and 
> passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for double/reinforced.
>
> So it would appear that the relay far exceeds the dielectric strength rating 
> the manufacturer's data sheet specifies. Is this common?
>
> So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and physical 
> measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's specification?
>
> Thanks for any and all replies.
>
> Merry Christmas.
>
> The Other Brian
> 
>
> LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
> information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
> mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
> e-mail to 
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

[Kunde, Brian]

Dave,

We don't have to worry about burns. This is an oven and proper tools and PPE 
must be used or worn. The hazard of concern is with shock. The heating elements 
cannot be guarded or insulated without affecting function.  The only practical 
way is to interlock the door and provide a proper Disconnect of the AC mains to 
the heating elements.

This oven is very similar to a kiln. If you open the lid you can actually see 
the heating elements (like a big toaster) and you could touch them if you 
wanted. You just have to make sure the AC mains is adequately disconnected. 
Would the relay I described (one on each side of the ac line) be able to 
provide this disconnection? What does a kiln or other such ovens typically use?

Thanks,
The Other Brian

-Original Message-
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 1:16 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Relays and Contactors

Are you trying to protect against shock hazard or burn hazard or both?  Can you 
eliminate the shock  hazard with additional insulation or localized guarding?   
If the user potentially has direct access to hazardous voltages you probably 
have a very high PLr and need redundant contactors.

How do you avoid the burn hazard or is the maximum temperature within 
touch-safe limits? Do you need guard door locking to prevent access until the 
temperature has dropped to safe levels?

-Dave

-Original Message-
From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Relays and Contactors

We have an application where during normal operation the user has access to a 
30 amp heating element driven by AC mains. We will interlock a door which will 
drive a relay or contactor which will open both sides of the AC mains going to 
the heating element to make it safe.

I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact spacing 
and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?

We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).

We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts with 
an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each meeting the 
requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a combined spacing and 
passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for double/reinforced.

So it would appear that the relay far exceeds the dielectric strength rating 
the manufacturer's data sheet specifies. Is this common?

So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and physical 
measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's specification?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Merry Christmas.

The Other Brian


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

-

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formats), large files, etc.

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mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[Charlie Blackham]

I think EN 60905-22 is overkill for occasional use outdoors.

1 Scope
1.1 Equipment covered
This part of IEC 60950 applies to information technology equipment intended to 
be installed in an OUTDOOR LOCATION.

The requirements for OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT also apply, where relevant, to empty 
OUTDOOR ENCLOSURES supplied for housing information technology equipment to be 
installed in an OUTDOOR LOCATION

3 Terms and definitions
For the purposes of this document, the terms and definitions given in IEC 
60950-1 and the following apply.
3.1
OUTDOOR LOCATION
location for equipment where protection from the weather and other outdoor 
influences provided by a building or other structure is limited or non-existent
3.2
OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT
equipment specified by the manufacturer to be installed where exposed wholly or 
partly to the conditions in an OUTDOOR LOCATION

The product is designed to be used indoors, with occasional, portable, use 
outdoors, then 60950-22 is not appropriate.

That said, you may want to make the equipment splash/drip proof, but that would 
be more for functional / customer experience.

Regards
Charlie

From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:34
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

Good evening

I had the same idea as Ken re 60950-22 - and then got to thinking about 62368-1 
which is replacing both 60065 & 60950, and the likelihood of  a "Part XX" to 
that standard.?

Did a quick search on "62368 outdoor equipment" and no "Part XX" was flagged 
up, but amongst the results was a link to this CSA page 
http://shop.csa.ca/en/canada/it-telecom-and-audio-video-equipment/cancsa-c222-no-62368-1-14-/invt/27033302014

About 2/3rds of the way down that page it states the following:

"Additional requirements for information and communication technology equipment 
intended for outdoor installation are given in CSA/UL 60950-22. Additional 
requirements for audio/video equipment intended for outdoor installation are 
given in the relevant requirements in CAN/CSA C22.2 No. 60065 or UL 60065." - 
so N.America is certainly "covered".

Presumably, however, the IEC Committees will (or should be!) working on a 
suitable "Part XX" to 62368 - so does anyone have leads on that?

John Allen
W.London, UK

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:13
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your suggestion on 60950-22.  I did not know or have this standard 
but had some search on internet and note that the standard is for equipment 
intended for outdoors.  I doubt it is too tough for my said equipment.  That is 
reason why I believe there may be different levels for outdoor use equipment.

Regards,

Scott


On 23 Dec, 2015, at 12:40 am, IBM Ken 
> wrote:

Hi Scott, I don't have any experience in this area but have you looked at 
60950-22?

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Scott Xe 
> wrote:
It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product is 
powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but can be 
used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally, we use EN 
60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety standard covering 
the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product, are there any defined 
levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product to be used outdoor 
permanently?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  >
David Heald: >


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>

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[PSES] EN 55035/CISPR35

[itl-emc user group]

Hello All
I received a notice that starting in 2016, Korea will only accept test reports 
to KN32 and KN35.
I assume that these are the equivalents of CISPR 32/EN 55032 and CISPR 
35/EN55035.
>From searching on the internet, I have not been able to find  CISPR 35/EN 
>55035 in final form.
Has CISPR 35/EN55035 been published as a standard in final form (not draft).
Thanks in advance
Season's Greetings

Regards,
David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer
Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel
Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101
Mail dav...@itl.co.il/e...@itl.co.il  Web 
www.itl.co.il

Fill out Customer Satisfaction 
Survey
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Re: [PSES] EN 55035/CISPR35

[Ghery S. Pettit]

CISPR 35 has not been published.  The FDIS for CISPR 35 is presently out for
translation into French.  Once that happens it will go out for vote by the
national committees.  With luck it will pass this time.  The Koreans jumped
the gun and based KN 35 on a version that was not accepted.

 

Best of luck.

 

Ghery S. Pettit

Vice Chair, CISPR SC I

 

 

From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 55035/CISPR35

 

Hello All

I received a notice that starting in 2016, Korea will only accept test
reports to KN32 and KN35.

I assume that these are the equivalents of CISPR 32/EN 55032 and CISPR
35/EN55035.

>From searching on the internet, I have not been able to find  CISPR 35/EN
55035 in final form.

Has CISPR 35/EN55035 been published as a standard in final form (not draft).

Thanks in advance

Season's Greetings

 

Regards,

David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer

Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel

Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101

Mail dav...@itl.co.il/e...@itl.co.il  Web  
www.itl.co.il

 

  Fill out Customer
Satisfaction Survey

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If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use,
disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any
way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by
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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[IBM Ken]

Hi Scott, I don't have any experience in this area but have you looked at
60950-22?

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Scott Xe  wrote:

> It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product
> is powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but
> can be used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.
> Traditionally, we use EN 60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any
> specific safety standard covering the said operating conditions?  For
> outdoor use product, are there any defined levels of outdoor condition as
> this is not a product to be used outdoor permanently?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Scott
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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[PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[Scott Xe]

It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product is 
powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but can be 
used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally, we use EN 
60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety standard covering 
the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product, are there any defined 
levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product to be used outdoor 
permanently?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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[PSES] Level VI EPS

[Scott Douglas]

Merry Christmas to all,

We are looking for a Level VI EPS that is 120 V~ input and 16 V~, 1.0 A 
output. We have two, one is Level V with 3.5 mm 2 contact pin plug. The 
other is Level IV with the output cable stripped and tinned.


Has anyone had any luck finding Level VI efficient AC-AC wall mount 
adapters (EPS)? We have been searching the web and contacting 
manufacturers and so far, we have not found any that are Level VI or any 
companies that are willing to make one Level VI (most likely due to low 
annual volumes (<1k each).


So how does one make a simple and small step-down transformer be Level 
VI efficient anyway? Is it possible?


Any and all comments appreciated and I thank you in advance for them.

Best as always,
Scott

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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[Scott Xe]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your suggestion on 60950-22.  I did not know or have this standard 
but had some search on internet and note that the standard is for equipment 
intended for outdoors.  I doubt it is too tough for my said equipment.  That is 
reason why I believe there may be different levels for outdoor use equipment.

Regards,

Scott


> On 23 Dec, 2015, at 12:40 am, IBM Ken  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott, I don't have any experience in this area but have you looked at 
> 60950-22?
> 
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Scott Xe  > wrote:
> It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product is 
> powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but can 
> be used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally, we 
> use EN 60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety standard 
> covering the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product, are there 
> any defined levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product to be used 
> outdoor permanently?
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> 
> Scott
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> >
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[Ted Eckert]

Hello Scott,

There are many products that are commonly used outdoors yet are not tested to 
any specific standard for outdoor use. Cell phones and tablet computers are 
just two examples of such devices. It is not uncommon for the manufacturer to 
specify the ingress protection (IP) rating under IEC 60529. In many cases, the 
manufacturer will not specify that their product is acceptable for outdoor use. 
The manufacturer will only specify the IP rating. It is then up to the user to 
determine the acceptability of any given use. 

Many cell phones are rated IP20 and have no rating for water ingress 
protection. The phones have moisture sensors inside, and the manufacturers will 
void the warranty if any repair finds that the phone has gotten wet. The user 
is given instructions on acceptable environments, and it is up to the user to 
make sure that their phone stays dry if they are going to use it outside.


Ted Eckert
Compliance Engineer
Microsoft Corporation
ted.eck...@microsoft.com

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product is 
powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but can be 
used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally, we use EN 
60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety standard covering 
the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product, are there any defined 
levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product to be used outdoor 
permanently?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

[John Allen]

Good evening

 

I had the same idea as Ken re 60950-22 - and then got to thinking about
62368-1 which is replacing both 60065 & 60950, and the likelihood of  a
"Part XX" to that standard.?

 

Did a quick search on "62368 outdoor equipment" and no "Part XX" was flagged
up, but amongst the results was a link to this CSA page
http://shop.csa.ca/en/canada/it-telecom-and-audio-video-equipment/cancsa-c22
2-no-62368-1-14-/invt/27033302014

 

About 2/3rds of the way down that page it states the following:

 

"Additional requirements for information and communication technology
equipment intended for outdoor installation are given in CSA/UL 60950-22.
Additional requirements for audio/video equipment intended for outdoor
installation are given in the relevant requirements in CAN/CSA C22.2 No.
60065 or UL 60065." - so N.America is certainly "covered".

 

Presumably, however, the IEC Committees will (or should be!) working on a
suitable "Part XX" to 62368 - so does anyone have leads on that?

 

John Allen

W.London, UK

 

From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 22 December 2015 17:13
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Outdoor Bluetooth speakers

 

Hi Ken,

 

Thanks for your suggestion on 60950-22.  I did not know or have this
standard but had some search on internet and note that the standard is for
equipment intended for outdoors.  I doubt it is too tough for my said
equipment.  That is reason why I believe there may be different levels for
outdoor use equipment.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

 

On 23 Dec, 2015, at 12:40 am, IBM Ken  wrote:

 

Hi Scott, I don't have any experience in this area but have you looked at
60950-22?

 

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Scott Xe  wrote:

It is my first time to test an audio product for outdoor use.  The product
is powered by rechargeable lithium batteries and primarily used indoors but
can be used occasionally for outdoor picnics and/or parties.  Traditionally,
we use EN 60065 for safety evaluation.  Is there any specific safety
standard covering the said operating conditions?  For outdoor use product,
are there any defined levels of outdoor condition as this is not a product
to be used outdoor permanently?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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[PSES] Relays and Contactors

[Kunde, Brian]

We have an application where during normal operation the user has access to a 
30 amp heating element driven by AC mains. We will interlock a door which will 
drive a relay or contactor which will open both sides of the AC mains going to 
the heating element to make it safe.

I assume the relay would have to meet double/reinforced open contact spacing 
and dielectric strength in this application.  Correct?

We are having a hard time finding a relay that specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength for double/reinforced (3000Vac or 4200Vdc).

We have found a relay where the manufacturer specifies an open contact 
dielectric strength of 2000Vac but internally each pole has two contacts with 
an air gap of 1.8mm for each. Since there are two air gaps, each meeting the 
requirements of Basic, together, the open contact has a combined spacing and 
passes a hipot test exceeding the requirements for double/reinforced.

So it would appear that the relay far exceeds the dielectric strength rating 
the manufacturer's data sheet specifies. Is this common?

So can we use this part in our application based on our testing and physical 
measurements or are we limited to the manufacture's specification?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Merry Christmas.

The Other Brian


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

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