date:20171211

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread John Allen

Also being a "Ted", (middle name is Edward, and Ted was how most people
referred to my Dad - Obviously also an "Edward"!) but never liked it, Mr
Eckert has my "full support" J

From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 11 December 2017 22:16
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Don't blame me for Ted Talks. Since they won't pay me a royalty for using my
name, I've disassociated myself completely from them.

I'm also not responsible for Ted Airlines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_(airline)

I'm certainly not responsible for Ted the movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637725/

Ted Eckert

Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer, Ted Bundy, Ted Kacynski, Ted Cruz, Teddy Roosevelt, Ted Turner,
Ted Danson or the anybody using the Ted word processor
 .

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Three observations.

1. would have side-effects somewhat analogous to BPL on EMC. And the up/down
rate would probably have same problems and delay as satellite internet.

2.  different modality of old tech - remember the science fair projects
using laser com from bazillions years past?

3. Ted said that he 'discounted' TED talks  (we had thought they were named
for him).

Some references

0. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light_communication

1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication

2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi

3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA

Brian

From: Edward Price [  mailto:e...@jwjelp.com]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 10:44 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting
it for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking
test equipment into a lab's mini-computer.

While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still
haven't eliminated rain, smoke and fog.

Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into
the details?

Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.

Ed Price

WB6WSN

Chula Vista, CA USA

-Original Message-

From: Ralph McDiarmid [ 
mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the
light very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle
for transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over
voice band land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

-Original Message-

From: Amund Westin [ 
mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ted.com
%2Ftalks%2Fharald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet%23t-4324
51&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C53bbc3853d4b4b08e89808d540d08
fc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636486186871774001%7CUnknow
n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D
%7C-1&sdata=0AFeQ9MPw3MwSWo%2BaCYqQBe78ZJio5oj39tnVruEoGU%3D&reserved=0

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,

Amund

David Heald <  dhe...@gmail.com> 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discu

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Ted Eckert

Don't blame me for Ted Talks. Since they won't pay me a royalty for using my 
name, I've disassociated myself completely from them.



I'm also not responsible for Ted Airlines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_(airline)



I'm certainly not responsible for Ted the movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637725/



Ted Eckert

Microsoft Corporation



The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer, Ted Bundy, Ted Kacynski, Ted Cruz, Teddy Roosevelt, Ted Turner, Ted 
Danson or the anybody using the Ted word 
processor.



-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



Three observations.

1. would have side-effects somewhat analogous to BPL on EMC. And the up/down 
rate would probably have same problems and delay as satellite internet.

2.  different modality of old tech - remember the science fair projects using 
laser com from bazillions years past?

3. Ted said that he 'discounted' TED talks  (we had thought they were named for 
him).



Some references

0. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light_communication

1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication

2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi

3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA



Brian





From: Edward Price [mailto:e...@jwjelp.com]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 10:44 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the 
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting it 
for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking test 
equipment into a lab's mini-computer.



While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet 
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the 
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of 
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still haven't 
eliminated rain, smoke and fog.



Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic 
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into the 
details?



Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more 
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.



Ed Price

WB6WSN

Chula Vista, CA USA



-Original Message-

From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)



Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric





-Original Message-

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi



I came over this video 

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ted.com%2Ftalks%2Fharald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet%23t-432451&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C53bbc3853d4b4b08e89808d540d08fc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636486186871774001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-1&sdata=0AFeQ9MPw3MwSWo%2BaCYqQBe78ZJio5oj39tnVruEoGU%3D&reserved=0



Anyone who have studied this tech?



Cheers,

Amund

David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>



-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>



All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C53bbc3853d4b4b08e89808d540d08fc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636486186871774001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-1&sdata=zboVxr17L3mTeiIy8%2FPXIM3R%2Fcr5Ox4yl8jj%2F8uhrQE%3D&reserved=0



Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C53bbc3853d4b4b08e89808d540d08fc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636486186871774001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Brian O'Connell

Three observations.
1. would have side-effects somewhat analogous to BPL on EMC. And the up/down 
rate would probably have same problems and delay as satellite internet.
2.  different modality of old tech - remember the science fair projects using 
laser com from bazillions years past?
3. Ted said that he 'discounted' TED talks  (we had thought they were named for 
him).

Some references
0. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light_communication
1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication
2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi
3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA

Brian


From: Edward Price [mailto:e...@jwjelp.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 10:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the 
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting it 
for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking test 
equipment into a lab's mini-computer.

While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet 
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the 
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of 
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still haven't 
eliminated rain, smoke and fog.

Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic 
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into the 
details?

Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more 
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund
David Heald  

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread John Allen

Anyone remember those old TV IR remote controls? - absolutely PBA!

Hope this "new" technology is a lot better!

 

 

 

From: Edward Price [mailto:e...@jwjelp.com] 
Sent: 11 December 2017 18:44
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

 

I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting
it for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking
test equipment into a lab's mini-computer.

 

While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still
haven't eliminated rain, smoke and fog.

 

Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into
the details?

 

Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

 

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the
light very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle
for transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over
voice band land lines)

 

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Amund Westin [ 
mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

 

I came over this video 

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_in
ternet#t-432451

 

Anyone who have studied this tech?

 

Cheers,

Amund

 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe)  
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Edward Price

I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the 
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting it 
for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking test 
equipment into a lab's mini-computer.

While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet 
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the 
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of 
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still haven't 
eliminated rain, smoke and fog.

Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic 
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into the 
details?

Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more 
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.


Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA


-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)



Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric





-Original Message-

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi



I came over this video 

https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451



Anyone who have studied this tech?



Cheers,

Amund



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Ted Eckert

Why would you want to use visible light? Our radiocommunications have an 
infrastructure built on the principle that interference is to be limited. Even 
on the ISM bands, there are rules that are supposed to allow the operation of 
devices without undue interference. We aren't going to start regulating visible 
light sources to allow Li-Fi to work.

The video also shows a very short range demonstration where the speaker can 
easily control the signal to noise ratio. Brighter ambient light would be a 
problem. The speaker gives the example of using streetlights for Li-Fi. I can't 
imagine this working well on a sunny day.

We also know how current wireless technologies work. As you increase the 
frequency, you can increase the data rate. However, you generally reduce the 
range and you become more subject to light of sight limitations. Visible light 
takes this to the extreme.

I generally discount TED talks. My personal opinion is that there is some 
amount of snake oil being sold in TED talks.

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer, TED LLC, or anybody else named Ted.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi


LED light can indeed be modulated very quickly.  Isn't that how fibre-optic 
cable works?

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates 
www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2017-12-11 16:20, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)



Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric





-Original Message-

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi



I came over this video 

https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451



Anyone who have studied this tech?



Cheers,

Amund



-





-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 




All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html



Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.



Website:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/

Instructions:  
http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Edward Price

Ralph:

Most LED luminaires for home replacement service now have a built-in "dimming" 
capability which is compatible with duty-cycle wall control switches (intended 
for the incandescent lighting era). The LED is driven by a constant-current 
switching power converter, but there is a "data path" around this converter 
which carries the duty-cycle information. This is applied to a fast switch that 
duty-cycle modulates the constant-current power converter output to the LED 
array, effectively proportioning the light output in accordance with the wall 
switch's control input. I imagine that the Li-Fi uses a similar, but faster, 
modulator scheme.


Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA



-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:47 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



Sure, but fiber optics are special purpose, dedicate circuits.  Isn't this 
fella talking about using existing luminaire in the home for data transmission? 
   Maybe I don't know enough about his concept.



Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric





From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:41 AM

To: Ralph McDiarmid 
mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com>>;
 EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi



LED light can indeed be modulated very quickly.  Isn't that how fibre-optic 
cable works?

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates http://www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 
2017-12-11 16:20, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)



Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Ralph McDiarmid

Sure, but fiber optics are special purpose, dedicate circuits.  Isn't this 
fella talking about using existing luminaire in the home for data transmission? 
   Maybe I don't know enough about his concept.

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:41 AM
To: Ralph McDiarmid ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

LED light can indeed be modulated very quickly.  Isn't that how fibre-optic 
cable works?
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates http://www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2017-12-11 16:20, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:
I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund

-


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com


__
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
__

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread John Woodgate

His demo claims to use an ordinary LED lamp. However, the drive circuit 
would probably not be so 'ordinary' but not vastly more costly.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2017-12-11 16:47, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:

Sure, but fiber optics are special purpose, dedicate circuits.  Isn't this 
fella talking about using existing luminaire in the home for data transmission? 
   Maybe I don't know enough about his concept.

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:41 AM
To: Ralph McDiarmid ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

LED light can indeed be modulated very quickly.  Isn't that how fibre-optic 
cable works?
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates http://www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2017-12-11 16:20, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:
I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund

-


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com


__
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
__



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread John Woodgate

LED light can indeed be modulated very quickly. Isn't that how 
fibre-optic cable works?


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2017-12-11 16:20, Ralph McDiarmid wrote:

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund

-


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Ralph McDiarmid

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the light 
very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle for 
transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over voice band 
land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund

-


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Pilot rating

2017-12-11 Thread Ralph McDiarmid

Just a couple of points:

1. Inductive loads, like a relay coil, don’t have an inrush current, capacitors 
do.  Inductors need controlled de-energization (e.g. placing Zener across them 
or a snubber circuit)

2. Many SSRs do not switch correctly with high PF (large phase angle loads) 
like a.c. relay coils.  (i.e. where zero cross of voltage and current do not 
coincide)

We learned #2 the hard way when trying to switch in/out inductors in an LRC 
load bank using SSRs.  We ended up building a custom mosfet a.c. switch to open 
very close to zero cross on current  (and zero cross on voltage for capacitive 
elements)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 5:23 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Pilot rating

Hi, Jon.

Switching a contactor or relay coil does involve an inrush current and 
inductive kickback, as previously mentioned. This can affect air gap contacts 
in significant ways.

For solid state switching, I’m less familiar with the ins and outs, but if you 
look at some SSR manufacturers’ web sites, you can see that there are different 
P/Ns within a family of SSRs, depending on the nature of the switched load. For 
example, use

http://www.crydom.com/en/tools/parametric-search.shtml?type=panel

to go through some examples. 

Also, check out (not very detailed, but it gives a flavor)

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&noSaveAs=0&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=AP04901001E

There are bound to be some snubbing features built into these SSRs, just as 
there would be for an electromechanical relay.

A lot of SSRs are zero crossing types to prevent switching on higher voltages. 
This can prolong the life of the SSR.

It could simply be clever marketing to change a P/N, but it might also be that 
there’s a physical difference in the SSRs that make them better suited to 
certain types of loads.

It may be that your design satisfies all of the necessaries for piloting a 
contactor of a certain VA rating. An NRTL will likely want to do some testing 
to satisfy themselves that the special concerns are met by your design. If your 
company is not planning to sell the solid state switch, you can probably 
negotiate a reduced test program based on your application. If you do 
negotiate, make sure you build in some head room for load changes so you don’t 
have to repeat testing when someone gets a clever idea for how to repurpose 
your design.


Regards,

Peter Tarver

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 13:09
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Pilot rating


The ultimate issue is what safety issue occurs if the contactor fails to open 
or close when it is supposed to?  If there is no safety consequence, then the 
contactor control is functional, not a safeguard.  If there is a safety 
consequence, then the circuits controlling the contactor constitute a safeguard 
and must be “reliable,”  and must meet the intent of the standard.

Not so cynical Rich


From: Jon Keeble [mailto:j...@wattwatchers.com.au] 
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 12:29 PM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Pilot rating

I am using a Panasonic AQH3213A PhotoMOS optical isolator to control a small 
contactor.

At 110VAC the contactor coil draws 30mArms.
The coil contacts are wired to a PCB via a terminal block plug and socket.

On the PCB is a series 10ohm fusible resistor, and a SMBJ400AC bidirectional 
zener.

When the switch opens at peak current (42mA) there is 0.1J of energy in the 
coil that gets absorbed by the zener.

The zener 
* clamps at a voltage way below the voltage rating of the optoMOS switch.
* is rated at 600W for 8.3msec and is subject to only 13W for a similar period.

The UL test engineer says that the optoMOS should be "pilot duty" rated (the 
part I am using does have this rating).

Does anyone know what triggers the requirement for a "pilot duty" rating?
Is this defined in a standard somewhere?

This useful link identifies "contact rating codes"
https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/blog/what-pilot-duty-rating-how-it-obtained

The lowest rating E300 is for 110V 1.8A (make) 0.3A (break)

Technically speaking, my switch is not connected to the contactor .. there is a 
two-component network in between
Does UL have the capacity or procedures in place to understand and accept a 
circtuit analysis that shows my circuit as safe?

Jon Keeble

Wattwatchers.



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but th

[PSES] Li-Fi

2017-12-11 Thread Amund Westin


I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_internet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Re: [PSES] Pilot rating

[PSES] Li-Fi

13 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information