Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[Brian O'Connell]

'x and/or y' is and should be logically and grammatically represented as 'x, or 
y, or both' (note the comma is not used to separate dependent and independent 
clauses, but is a coordinating conjunctive between two independent clauses). 
The common interpretation of a logical exclusive-or conjunctive is not correct, 
as it would be 'x or y, but not both'.

The stuff here is written poorly, but seems to be correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or

Would be much simpler if we all spoke Klingon and the IEEE adopted the rituals 
of Kahless in their ethical code.

Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive



“and/or”

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”  

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.  

Rich
 

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[Richard Nute]

 

 

“and/or”

 

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”  

 

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.  

 

Rich

  

 

 


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Re: [PSES] [SPAM] Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[John Woodgate]

As is usual with these things, about 20% of the words are justified, the 
rest are not, or vice versa. For example, in the first citation, the 
first 7 words are not justified by any peer-reviewed research reports, 
the rest are largely true. In the second citation, the first 14 words 
are asserted without proof. In the third citation, the words 'produced 
by EMF exposures' and 'of EMFs' are asserted without proof. The sentence 
without these words is claimed to be true. In the fourth statement, the 
words 'reduce the harmful effects of EMFs' are superfluous; everyone 
knows that the rest of the sentence is true, whether one is exposed to 
EMF or not.


Alternatively, you can believe that the relevant IEEE and ICNIRP 
research reports are all falsehoods.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 20:41, gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com wrote:

Re: Exposure Limits

Thought I would post this to the group as it has been the subject of debate for 
many years.  I found it Interesting as it gets into the mechanisms at work and 
symptoms while underscoring the importance of our work.

Gary Stuyvenberg
Sr. EMC Engineer
Thompson Consulting


THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS EXPLAINED

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/09/03/electromagnetic-fields-harmful-effects.aspx

September 03, 2017 • 148,493 views

Story at-a-glance


Exposure to microwave EMFs, like cellphones, causes massive mitochondrial 
dysfunction due to damage done by free radicals from peroxynitrite that also 
cause single and double stranded breaks in your DNA
Excessive free radicals triggered by low-frequency microwave exposure from 
cellphones and Wi-Fi networks have been linked to chronic diseases such as 
cardiac arrhythmias, anxiety, depression, autism, Alzheimer’s and infertility
Excessive calcium signaling produced by EMF exposures also has important roles 
in producing pathophysiological effects of EMFs including each of the effects 
listed above
Strategies that may help reduce the harmful effects of EMFs include optimizing 
your magnesium level, certain Nrf2-boosting foods, exercise, calorie 
restriction and strategies that boost nitric oxide signaling (which acts, in 
turn, by raising Nrf2)

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[John Woodgate]

It's another example of the crazy aversion to say what they really mean. 
What are we to make of 'and/or transmit'?  Does a 'receiver' transmit?  
I think not. Do they mean some sort of relay or re-broadcaster?  The 
language of a Directive may be constrained by legal considerations, but 
a Guide should be in the plainest language possible, not be cryptic.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 21:05, Michael Derby wrote:


Hello Matthew,

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean broadcast ‘receivers’ which 
connect to cable, and not to an antenna.


Only those ‘receivers’ which are fitted with an antenna (for 
‘radiated’ reception) would be within the RED.


Thanks,

Michael.

*From:*Matthew Wilson [mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 17:27
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, 
which is talking about what type of product is covered by which 
directive, EMCD or RED.


“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive 
and/or transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do 
not move under the scope of the RED.”


A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What 
am I missing? Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio 
functions exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?


Matthew Wilson,

Technical Director,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

*From:*Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
*Sent:* 02 April 2018 19:11
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
*Subject:* [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Colleagues,

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the 
EMC Directive. Get yours for free:


https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org 
+1 (519) 729-5704

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[Michael Derby]

Hello Matthew,

 

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean broadcast ‘receivers’ which connect to 
cable, and not to an antenna.

 

Only those ‘receivers’ which are fitted with an antenna (for ‘radiated’ 
reception) would be within the RED.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

From: Matthew Wilson [mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com] 
Sent: 04 April 2018 17:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

 

Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is 
talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.

 

“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or 
transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under 
the scope of the RED.”  

 

A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I 
missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions 
exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?

 

 

Matthew Wilson,

Technical Director,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

 

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

 

Colleagues,

 

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC 
Directive. Get yours for free:

 

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

 

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org  
+1 (519) 729-5704

 

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 >

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Matthew Wilson 
Technical Director

  
https://gbelectronics.uk


T: +44 (0)1903 244500
F: +44 (0)1903 700715

Ascot House // Mulberry Close // Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea // West Sussex // BN12 4QY // UK



Electronics Design // Manufacturing // Component Distribution

  


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GB Electronics (UK) Limited is a company registered in England and Wales
Company Registration No: 06210991
VAT Registration No: GB 925 1744 25

Registered Office:
Ascot House, Mulberry Close, Woods Way
Goring by Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY


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 >

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a 

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[gdstuyvenb...@yahoo.com]

Re: Exposure Limits

Thought I would post this to the group as it has been the subject of debate for 
many years.  I found it Interesting as it gets into the mechanisms at work and 
symptoms while underscoring the importance of our work. 

Gary Stuyvenberg
Sr. EMC Engineer
Thompson Consulting


THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS EXPLAINED

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/09/03/electromagnetic-fields-harmful-effects.aspx

September 03, 2017 • 148,493 views

Story at-a-glance

>Exposure to microwave EMFs, like cellphones, causes massive mitochondrial 
>dysfunction due to damage done by free radicals from peroxynitrite that also 
>cause single and double stranded breaks in your DNA

>Excessive free radicals triggered by low-frequency microwave exposure from 
>cellphones and Wi-Fi networks have been linked to chronic diseases such as 
>cardiac arrhythmias, anxiety, depression, autism, Alzheimer’s and infertility

>Excessive calcium signaling produced by EMF exposures also has important roles 
>in producing pathophysiological effects of EMFs including each of the effects 
>listed above

>Strategies that may help reduce the harmful effects of EMFs include optimizing 
>your magnesium level, certain Nrf2-boosting foods, exercise, calorie 
>restriction and strategies that boost nitric oxide signaling (which acts, in 
>turn, by raising Nrf2)

-

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Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Brian O'Connell]

Uhhh, no, that should be 1500Vdc. Although my power source did go insane for a 
few cycles where the switch had to commutate 2500V peak.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 10:54 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Did a switch for 1500kVdc that required 6kV dielectric withstand. Used two sets 
of two relays in series, each rated 1500V, actuated through optoisolators. 
Including input and output terminals, was about 20cm x 18cm x7cm. The peak load 
was 280mA, and 10mA continuous. After about 250 power cycles, replaced relays 
for another 200 cycles (completion of test). 'Static' DC switching can be 
stressful to most anything, including MOSFETS.

Brian


From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 7:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Purpose is to reverse polarity on the charged line in a MIL-STD-461 CS115 
transient generator.  The charged line can charge as high as 2 kV for use, but 
the actual capability is 2.8 kV (2 kVrms output transformer).

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


From: "Grasso, Charles" 
Reply-To: "Grasso, Charles" 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 14:32:18 +
To: 
Conversation: [PSES] Need a switch
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Reminds me of a Frankenstein-like experiment. What exactly is this switch for 
Ken :-D  ??


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:50 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org

I once had a DPDT knife switch with ceramic base and insulators. Rather big, 
though.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 04:01, Richard Nute wrote:


Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.

Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich

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Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Brian O'Connell]

Did a switch for 1500kVdc that required 6kV dielectric withstand. Used two sets 
of two relays in series, each rated 1500V, actuated through optoisolators. 
Including input and output terminals, was about 20cm x 18cm x7cm. The peak load 
was 280mA, and 10mA continuous. After about 250 power cycles, replaced relays 
for another 200 cycles (completion of test). 'Static' DC switching can be 
stressful to most anything, including MOSFETS.

Brian


From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 7:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Purpose is to reverse polarity on the charged line in a MIL-STD-461 CS115 
transient generator.  The charged line can charge as high as 2 kV for use, but 
the actual capability is 2.8 kV (2 kVrms output transformer).

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


From: "Grasso, Charles" 
Reply-To: "Grasso, Charles" 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 14:32:18 +
To: 
Conversation: [PSES] Need a switch
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Reminds me of a Frankenstein-like experiment. What exactly is this switch for 
Ken :-D  ??
 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:50 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch
 
This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org 

I once had a DPDT knife switch with ceramic base and insulators. Rather big, 
though. 

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 04:01, Richard Nute wrote:

 
Hi Ken:
 
I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.
 
Tough specs.
 
Good luck,
Rich

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[MIKE]

Cable box?Mike Sherman Graco Inc. Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Matthew WilsonTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: April 4, 2018 at 12:33 PMSubject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive




Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.
 
“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under the scope
 of the RED.”  
 
A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions exclusively connected
 by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?
 

 
Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

 


From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]

Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive


 
Colleagues,

 


In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC Directive. Get yours for free:


 


https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323


 



Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704



 

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Matthew Wilson 
Technical Director



https://gbelectronics.uk




T: +44 (0)1903 244500
F: +44 (0)1903 700715


Ascot House // Mulberry Close // Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea // West Sussex // BN12 4QY // UK









Electronics Design // Manufacturing // Component Distribution





Want to send us a file? 
https://www.mailbigfile.com/gbelectronics









GB Electronics (UK) Limited is a company registered in England and Wales
Company Registration No: 06210991
VAT Registration No: GB 925 1744 25



Registered Office:
Ascot House, Mulberry Close, Woods Way
Goring by Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY




Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email
 in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately.
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

[Matthew Wilson]

Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is 
talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.

“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or 
transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under 
the scope of the RED.”

A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I 
missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions 
exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?


Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Colleagues,

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC 
Directive. Get yours for free:

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704

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Matthew Wilson
Technical Director


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

So it sounds similar to the MD with respect to the LVD requirements and you 
don’t declare to the LVD.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:09 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

OK, the LVD does not apply, but all its provisions apply. Is that pernickety 
enough?



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 16:57, Gert Gremmen; ce-test wrote:

The LVD does NOT apply.

For elektrical safety and EMC the RED will use it's proper list of harmonised 
standards.

As says:

Art 1.4

Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be subject 
to Directive 2014/35/EU, except as set out in point (a) of Article 3(1) of this 
Directive.

Art 3.1(a) says :

the protection of health and safety of persons and of domestic animals and the 
protection of property, including the objectives with respect to safety 
requirements set out in Directive 2014/35/EU, but with no voltage limit 
applying;
One cannot legally apply a directive and say at the same time that some part of 
it is not applicable. It's the objectives as set-out in the LV-directive, that 
are an essential requirement to the RED, not the directive itself. I agree that 
such IS somewhat obscurantist wording.

The fact that no standards for electrical safety have been published yet does 
NOT help in good understanding the directives wording, of course.

Gert Gremmen
On 4-4-2018 17:44, John Woodgate wrote:
Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but without 
its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, quite explicitly.



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:
The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per article Art. 
1.4 of the RED which states



“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be 
subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point (a) of 
Article 3(1) of this Directive.”

In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: John Woodgate 
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:05
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID


Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, due to the 
Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless '/nn' numbers 
instead of the titles of the Directives.

. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low Voltage 
Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), which applies 
the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing else of the RED is relevant.



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:
John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, not with 
products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is indeed the 
correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.


Thanks,

Michael.


Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry
Web:   www.acbcert.com

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com
Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)
Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700






From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: 04 April 2018 14:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with RED but 
are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of workers 
to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 2004/40/EC




John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:
Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The 

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Michael Derby]

Hello,

 

Actually a safety assessment equivalent to the LVD (but without the lower 
voltage limit) does apply to RED devices, but the LV Directive (LVD) itself 
does not apply to RED equipment.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] 
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:44
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

 

Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but without 
its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, quite explicitly. 




John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:

The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per article Art. 
1.4 of the RED which states

 

“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be 
subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point (a) of 
Article 3(1) of this Directive.” 

 

In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

 

Regards

Charlie

 

Charlie Blackham

Sulis Consultants Ltd

Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317

Web:  

 www.sulisconsultants.com

Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

 

From: John Woodgate    
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:05
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

 


Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, due to the 
Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless '/nn' numbers 
instead of the titles of the Directives.  

. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low Voltage 
Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), which applies 
the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing else of the RED is relevant.




John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:

John,

 

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, not with 
products.

 

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is indeed the 
correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com   

  

e-mail:  micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] 
Sent: 04 April 2018 14:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

 

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with RED but 
are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013 
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of workers 
to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 2004/40/EC 





John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

 

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

 

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list standards 
(March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID 
device.

 

 

EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

 

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when placed on the market

 

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when put into service

 

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
30 MHz to 

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[John Woodgate]

OK, the LVD does not apply, but all its provisions apply. Is that 
pernickety enough?


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 16:57, Gert Gremmen; ce-test wrote:


The LVD does NOT apply.

For elektrical safety and EMC the RED will use it's proper list of 
harmonised standards.


As says:

Art 1.4

/Radio equipment//falling within//the scope of this Directive//shall 
_*not*_ be subject//to Directive//2014/35/EU,//except as//set out in 
point (a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive. /


Art 3.1(a) says :

/the protection of health//and safety of persons//and of 
domestic//animals//and the protection//of proper//ty, 
including//the//objectives//with respect//to safety requirements//set 
out in Directive//2014/35/EU,//but with no voltage limit applying; /


One cannot legally apply a directive and say at the same time that 
some part of it is not applicable. It's the _objectives as set-out in 
the LV-directive_, that are an essential requirement to the RED, not 
the directive itself. I agree that such IS somewhat obscurantist wording.


The fact that no standards for electrical safety have been published 
yet does NOT help in good understanding the directives wording, of course.


Gert Gremmen
On 4-4-2018 17:44, John Woodgate wrote:
Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but 
without its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, 
quite explicitly.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:


The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per 
article Art. 1.4 of the RED which states


“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall 
not be subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in 
point (a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive.”


In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards

Charlie

*Charlie Blackham*

*Sulis Consultants Ltd*

*Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*

*Web: **www.sulisconsultants.com* 



Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

*From:*John Woodgate 
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 16:05
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED 
for 13.56 MHz RFID



Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, 
due to the Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless 
'/nn' numbers instead of the titles of the Directives.


. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low 
Voltage Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 
(a), which applies the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing 
else of the RED is relevant.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:

John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the
workplace, not with products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED
is indeed the correct Directive and it would be covered in
Article 3.1a.

Thanks,

Michael.

Michael Derby

Senior Regulatory Engineer

Director

ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry

Web: www.acbcert.com 

e-mail: micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700

*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 14:38
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per
RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to
do with RED but are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the
exposure of workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th
individual Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing
Directive 2004/40/EC


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 

Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz
RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest
published list standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is
no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID device.

  

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Charlie Blackham]

From the RED guide, http://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/23321

Relationship between the RED and LVD/EMCD
Radio equipment falling under the scope of the RED are excluded from both the 
Low Voltage Directive (LVD) and Electromagnetic Compatibility Directive (EMCD) 
33:

  *   Art. 1.4 RED: “Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive 
shall not be subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point 
(a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive.”
  *   Art. 2.2(a) EMCD: “This Directive shall not apply to equipment covered by 
Directive 1999/5/EC.”34

Therefore, where RED is applicable to radio equipment, the LVD and EMCD do not 
apply, however the RED refers to the essential requirements of the LVD and EMCD 
(on the essential requirements, see Chapter 3).

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: John Woodgate 
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:44
To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but without 
its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, quite explicitly.



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:
The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per article Art. 
1.4 of the RED which states



“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be 
subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point (a) of 
Article 3(1) of this Directive.”

In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: John Woodgate 
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:05
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID


Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, due to the 
Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless '/nn' numbers 
instead of the titles of the Directives.

. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low Voltage 
Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), which applies 
the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing else of the RED is relevant.



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:
John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, not with 
products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is indeed the 
correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.


Thanks,

Michael.


Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry
Web:   www.acbcert.com

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com
Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)
Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700






From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: 04 April 2018 14:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with RED but 
are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of workers 
to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 2004/40/EC




John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:
Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list standards 
(March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID 
device.


EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human 

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Gert Gremmen; ce-test]

The LVD does NOT apply.

For elektrical safety and EMC the RED will use it's proper list of 
harmonised standards.


As says:

Art 1.4

/Radio equipment//falling within//the scope of this Directive//shall 
_*not*_ be subject//to Directive//2014/35/EU,//except as//set out in 
point (a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive. /


Art 3.1(a) says :

/the protection of health//and safety of persons//and of 
domestic//animals//and the protection//of proper//ty, 
including//the//objectives//with respect//to safety requirements//set 
out in Directive//2014/35/EU,//but with no voltage limit applying; /


One cannot legally apply a directive and say at the same time that some 
part of it is not applicable. It's the _objectives as set-out in the 
LV-directive_, that are an essential requirement to the RED, not the 
directive itself. I agree that such IS somewhat obscurantist wording.


The fact that no standards for electrical safety have been published yet 
does NOT help in good understanding the directives wording, of course.


Gert Gremmen
On 4-4-2018 17:44, John Woodgate wrote:
Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but 
without its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, 
quite explicitly.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:


The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per 
article Art. 1.4 of the RED which states


“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not 
be subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point 
(a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive.”


In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards

Charlie

*Charlie Blackham*

*Sulis Consultants Ltd*

*Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*

*Web: **www.sulisconsultants.com* 



Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

*From:*John Woodgate 
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 16:05
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 
13.56 MHz RFID



Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, 
due to the Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless 
'/nn' numbers instead of the titles of the Directives.


. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low 
Voltage Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 
(a), which applies the LVD without its low-voltage limit. Nothing 
else of the RED is relevant.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:

John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the
workplace, not with products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED
is indeed the correct Directive and it would be covered in
Article 3.1a.

Thanks,

Michael.

Michael Derby

Senior Regulatory Engineer

Director

ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry

Web: www.acbcert.com 

e-mail: micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700

*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 14:38
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED
for 13.56 MHz RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to
do with RED but are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the
exposure of workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th
individual Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive
2004/40/EC


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 

Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz
RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest
published list standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is
no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID device.

EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance
of wireless communication devices, with the basic
restrictions and exposure limit values related to human
exposure to electromagnetic fields in the 

Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Ken Javor]

That sounds an awful lot like what Ed Price suggested: ³high voltage ceramic
wafer switches.²  A search for those produces variations on what John
Woodgate described below.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: John Woodgate 
Reply-To: John Woodgate 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 16:41:45 +0100
To: 
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

   You may have to make what you want. Take a 3 inch square of rigid plastic
(not acrylate, in case you get an arc) about 1/4 inch thick. Cut out a 2
inch disc from the middle. Install four contact studs near the corners of
the square. On the disc, fix a spindle (non-conducting) to turn it and  two
arcuate strips of (preferably) phosphor-bronze, to make contact with two
pairs of adjacent studs. A 90 degree rotation changes the connections as you
want. Supporting structure for the spindle and square left to your
ingenuity. You might be able to make it a bit smaller than I suggest.
 
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
 
On 2018-04-04 16:24, Ken Javor wrote:
 
 
>  Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch I have some of those but highly
> undesirable as the high voltage would be directly exposed to operator contact.
>  
>  Ken Javor
>  Phone: (256) 650-5261
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> From: "Nyffenegger, Dave" 
> 
>  Reply-To: "Nyffenegger, Dave" 
> 
>  Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:48:28 +
>  To:  
>  Conversation: [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch
>  Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch
>  
>  That¹s what I was thinking but I didn¹t dare say it.
>   
>  
>  From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
>  To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>  Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
>   
>  I¹m picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
>  The Other Brian
>   
>  
>  From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
>  To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>  Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
>  Importance: Low
>   
>   
>   
>  Hi Ken:
>   
>  I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open
> contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the
> switch lever.
>   
>  Tough specs.
>   
>  Good luck,
>  Rich
>   
>   
>   
>  -
> 
>  This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
>  
>  
>  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>  
>  Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
>  
>  Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>  Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
>  List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>  
>  For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Scott Douglas  
>  Mike Cantwell  
>  
>  For policy questions, send mail to:
>  Jim Bacher  
>  David Heald  
>   
>  
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
> information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by
> mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
>  -
> 
>  This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
>  
>  
>  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>  
>  Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
>  
>  Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>  Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
>  List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>  
>  For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Scott Douglas  
>  Mike Cantwell  
>  
>  For 

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[John Woodgate]

Yes, well, it's typical obscurantist wording. The LVD DOES apply, but 
without its low-voltage limit. That is what Article 3 1 (a) says, quite 
explicitly.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 16:33, Charlie Blackham wrote:


The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per 
article Art. 1.4 of the RED which states


“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not 
be subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point 
(a) of Article 3(1) of this Directive.”


In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards

Charlie

*Charlie Blackham*

*Sulis Consultants Ltd*

*Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*

*Web: **www.sulisconsultants.com* 



Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

*From:*John Woodgate 
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 16:05
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 
13.56 MHz RFID



Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, 
due to the Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless 
'/nn' numbers instead of the titles of the Directives.


. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low 
Voltage Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), 
which applies the LVD without its low-voltage limit. Nothing else of 
the RED is relevant.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:

John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the
workplace, not with products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED
is indeed the correct Directive and it would be covered in Article
3.1a.

Thanks,

Michael.

Michael Derby

Senior Regulatory Engineer

Director

ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry

Web: www.acbcert.com 

e-mail: micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700

*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 14:38
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED
for 13.56 MHz RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do
with RED but are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the
exposure of workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th
individual Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive
2004/40/EC


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 

Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID
devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest
published list standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is
no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID device.

EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance
of wireless communication devices, with the basic restrictions
and exposure limit values related to human exposure to
electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 300 MHz to
6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance
of base station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic
field exposure limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when placed on the
market

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance
of base station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic
field exposure limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when put into service

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance
of wireless communication devices with the basic restrictions
and exposure limit values related to human exposure to
electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 30 MHz to 6
GHz: hand-held and body mounted devices in close proximity to
the human body

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Grace Lin

-

Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[John Woodgate]

You may have to make what you want.Take a 3 inch square of rigid plastic 
(not acrylate, in case you get an arc) about 1/4 inch thick. Cut out a 2 
inch disc from the middle. Install four contact studs near the corners 
of the square. On the disc, fix a spindle (non-conducting) to turn it 
and  two arcuate strips of (preferably) phosphor-bronze, to make contact 
with two pairs of adjacent studs. A 90 degree rotation changes the 
connections as you want. Supporting structure for the spindle and square 
left to your ingenuity. You might be able to make it a bit smaller than 
I suggest.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 16:24, Ken Javor wrote:
Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch I have some of those but 
highly undesirable as the high voltage would be directly exposed to 
operator contact.


Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




*From: *"Nyffenegger, Dave" 
*Reply-To: *"Nyffenegger, Dave" 
*Date: *Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:48:28 +
*To: *
*Conversation: *[BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch
*Subject: *Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch

That’s what I was thinking but I didn’t dare say it.


*From:* Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

I’m picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a 
kid.

The Other Brian


*From:* Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
*Importance:* Low



Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open 
contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as 
the switch lever.


Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich



-

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emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)  


List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald 



*LECO Corporation Notice:**This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received 
this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

*-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)  


List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald 
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html


Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)  

Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Charlie Blackham]

The LVD is cited, but the RED is the applicable Directive, as per article Art. 
1.4 of the RED which states



“Radio equipment falling within the scope of this Directive shall not be 
subject to Directive 2014/35/EU (LVD), except as set out in point (a) of 
Article 3(1) of this Directive.”

In due course, all product EMF standards will be harmonised under RED

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: John Woodgate 
Sent: 04 April 2018 16:05
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID


Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, due to the 
Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless '/nn' numbers 
instead of the titles of the Directives.

. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low Voltage 
Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), which applies 
the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing else of the RED is relevant.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:
John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, not with 
products.

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is indeed the 
correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.


Thanks,

Michael.


Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry
Web:   www.acbcert.com

e-mail:micha...@acbcert.com
Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)
Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700






From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: 04 April 2018 14:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with RED but 
are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of workers 
to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 2004/40/EC



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:
Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list standards 
(March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID 
device.


EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when placed on the market

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when put into service

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and body mounted devices in close proximity to the 
human body

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send 

Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Ken Javor]

Agree!

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: Edward Price 
Reply-To: Edward Price 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 15:26:59 +
To: 
Conversation: [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch

A knife switch isn¹t impressive until you feel you need to use a 6-foot long
broomstick to actuate it.
 
BTW, I think the best choice for Ken¹s application is a ceramic wafer
switch; like the kind that were used to select taps on baluns and RF
transmitter loading coils.
 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
 
That¹s what I was thinking but I didn¹t dare say it.
 

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
 
I¹m picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
The Other Brian
 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Importance: Low
 
Hi Ken:
 
I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open
contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the
switch lever.
 
Tough specs.
 
Good luck,
Rich
 
 
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  
David Heald 



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Edward Price]

A knife switch isn't impressive until you feel you need to use a 6-foot long 
broomstick to actuate it.

BTW, I think the best choice for Ken's application is a ceramic wafer switch; 
like the kind that were used to select taps on baluns and RF transmitter 
loading coils.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

That's what I was thinking but I didn't dare say it.

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

I'm picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
The Other Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Importance: Low

Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.

Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Ken Javor]

I have some of those but highly undesirable as the high voltage would be
directly exposed to operator contact.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: "Nyffenegger, Dave" 
Reply-To: "Nyffenegger, Dave" 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:48:28 +
To: 
Conversation: [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK]  Re: [PSES] Need a switch

That¹s what I was thinking but I didn¹t dare say it.
 

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
 
I¹m picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
The Other Brian
 

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Importance: Low
 
 
 
Hi Ken:
 
I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open
contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the
switch lever.
 
Tough specs.
 
Good luck,
Rich
 
 
 
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Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

That's what I was thinking but I didn't dare say it.

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

I'm picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
The Other Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Importance: Low



Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.

Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich



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mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Gert Gremmen; ce-test]

As LVD (2014/35) is not applicable for Radio devices and so RFID, this 
standard is set up to be harmonized


under the RED. Be it as an Electrical Safety Standard under the RED. 
Look at the provided link.



Gert Gremmen


On 4-4-2018 15:37, John Woodgate wrote:

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do 
with RED but are relevant to a different Directive:


DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure 
of workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 
2004/40/EC

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list 
standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 
13.56 MHz RFID device.



EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of 
wireless communication devices, with the basic restrictions and 
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic 
fields in the frequency range from 300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used 
next to the ear


EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base 
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure 
limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when placed on the market


EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base 
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure 
limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when put into service


EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of 
wireless communication devices with the basic restrictions and 
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic 
fields in the frequency range from 30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and 
body mounted devices in close proximity to the human body



Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin
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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[John Woodgate]

Yes, I cited the wrong Directive. Wrong citations are quite common, due 
to the Commission and the SMBs citing the largely meaningless '/nn' 
numbers instead of the titles of the Directives.


. The actual situation is that the Directive concerned is the Low 
Voltage Directive. The involvement of the RED is ONLY Article 3 1 (a), 
which applies the LVD without its  low-voltage limit. Nothing else of 
the RED is relevant.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 14:51, Michael Derby wrote:


John,

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, 
not with products.


For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is 
indeed the correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.


Thanks,

Michael.

Michael Derby

Senior Regulatory Engineer

Director

ACB Europe

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry

Web: www.acbcert.com 

e-mail: micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code)

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700

*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 14:38
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 
13.56 MHz RFID


SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do 
with RED but are relevant to a different Directive:


DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure 
of workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 
2004/40/EC


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID
devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published
list standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one
applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID device.

EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of
wireless communication devices, with the basic restrictions and
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic
fields in the frequency range from 300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used
next to the ear

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of
base station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field
exposure limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when placed on the market

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of
base station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field
exposure limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when put into service

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of
wireless communication devices with the basic restrictions and
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic
fields in the frequency range from 30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and
body mounted devices in close proximity to the human body

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Grace Lin

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Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Ken Javor]

Purpose is to reverse polarity on the charged line in a MIL-STD-461 CS115
transient generator.  The charged line can charge as high as 2 kV for use,
but the actual capability is 2.8 kV (2 kVrms output transformer).

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "Grasso, Charles" 
Reply-To: "Grasso, Charles" 
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 14:32:18 +
To: 
Conversation: [PSES] Need a switch
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch

Reminds me of a Frankenstein-like experiment. What exactly is this switch
for Ken :-D  ??
 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:50 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch
 
 This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by:
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org

I once had a DPDT knife switch with ceramic base and insulators. Rather big,
though. 

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 04:01, Richard Nute wrote:
>  
>  
> Hi Ken:
>  
> I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open
> contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the
> switch lever.
>  
> Tough specs.
>  
> Good luck,
> Rich
>  
>  
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
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> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
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> David Heald 

 
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Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Grasso, Charles]

Reminds me of a Frankenstein-like experiment. What exactly is this switch for 
Ken :-D  ??

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:50 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Need a switch


 This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: 
owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org
I once had a DPDT knife switch with ceramic base and insulators. Rather big, 
though.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-04 04:01, Richard Nute wrote:


Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.

Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich



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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[T.Sato]

On Wed, 4 Apr 2018 05:38:41 -0700,
  Grace Lin  wrote:

> Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?
> 
> The following four standards are listed in the latest published list
> standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56
> MHz RFID device.

Will EN 50364 applicable to the device?

Although it is not listed under 2014/53/EU yet, EN 50364:2010 is
listed under 2014/35/EU, and it appears EN 50364:2018 is intended
to be harmonized under 2014/35/EU and 2014/53/EU.

EN 50364:2018
Product standard for human exposure to electromagnetic fields from
devices operating in the frequency range 0 Hz to 300 GHz, used in
Electronic Article Surveillance (EAS), Radio Frequency Identification
(RFID) and similar applications

https://www.cenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=104:110:1541743784364801FSP_ORG_ID,FSP_PROJECT,FSP_LANG_ID:1258483,62212,25

Regards,
Tom

-- 
Tomonori Sato  
URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp

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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Michael Derby]

John,

 

I think the physical agents Directive is concerned with the workplace, not with 
products.

 

For assessment of RF Exposure risk/safety from products, the RED is indeed the 
correct Directive and it would be covered in Article 3.1a.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

Michael Derby 

Senior Regulatory Engineer 

Director 

ACB Europe 

 

Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry 

Web:   www.acbcert.com   

  

e-mail:  micha...@acbcert.com 

Mobile phone:   (+44) 7939 880829   (UK area code) 

Corporate office phone: USA:   (+1) 703 847 4700 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] 
Sent: 04 April 2018 14:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz 
RFID

 

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with RED but 
are relevant to a different Directive:

DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013 
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of workers 
to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 2004/40/EC 



John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk  
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

 

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

 

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list standards 
(March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID 
device.

 

 

EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

 

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when placed on the market

 

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when put into service

 

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and body mounted devices in close proximity to the 
human body

 

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Best regards,

Grace Lin

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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[John Woodgate]

SECOND RESPONSE

I should have mentioned that exposure standards have nothing to do with 
RED but are relevant to a different Directive:


DIRECTIVE 2013/35/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 26 June 2013
on the minimum health and safety requirements regarding the exposure of 
workers to the risks
arising from physical agents (electromagnetic fields) (20th individual 
Directive within the meaning
of Article 16(1) of Directive 89/391/EEC) and repealing Directive 
2004/40/EC


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 13:38, Grace Lin wrote:

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list 
standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 
13.56 MHz RFID device.



EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of 
wireless communication devices, with the basic restrictions and 
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic 
fields in the frequency range from 300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next 
to the ear


EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base 
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure 
limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when placed on the market


EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base 
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure 
limits (110 MHz — 100 GHz), when put into service


EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of 
wireless communication devices with the basic restrictions and 
exposure limit values related to human exposure to electromagnetic 
fields in the frequency range from 30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and body 
mounted devices in close proximity to the human body



Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin
-


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Re: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Charlie Blackham]

Grace

Assuming the device is not transmitting with 100% duty cycle, it is very likely 
to meet requirements for low power devices, so the appropriate standard would 
be EN 50663:2017

This is not yet harmonised under the RED, but Harmonised Standards are not 
mandatory for article 3.1a

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Grace Lin 
Sent: 04 April 2018 13:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list standards 
(March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56 MHz RFID 
device.


EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when placed on the market

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base station 
equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits (110 MHz — 
100 GHz), when put into service

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless 
communication devices with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range from 
30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and body mounted devices in close proximity to the 
human body

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Mike Cantwell >

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-

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Re: [PSES] [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[Kunde, Brian]

I'm picturing a huge knife switch from a Frankenstein movie I saw as a kid.
The Other Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [BULK] Re: [PSES] Need a switch
Importance: Low



Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open contacts 
as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as the switch lever.

Tough specs.

Good luck,
Rich



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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

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[PSES] EU Harmonized RF Exposure Standards per RED for 13.56 MHz RFID

[Grace Lin]

Dear Members,

Is there any harmonized standards applicable to 13.56 MHz RFID devices?

The following four standards are listed in the latest published list
standards (March 9, 2018).  It seems there is no one applicable to a 13.56
MHz RFID device.


EN 50360:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless
communication devices, with the basic restrictions and exposure limit
values related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency
range from 300 MHz to 6 GHz: devices used next to the ear

EN 50385:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits
(110 MHz — 100 GHz), when placed on the market

EN 50401:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of base
station equipment with radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure limits
(110 MHz — 100 GHz), when put into service

EN 50566:2017 Product standard to demonstrate the compliance of wireless
communication devices with the basic restrictions and exposure limit values
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields in the frequency range
from 30 MHz to 6 GHz: hand-held and body mounted devices in close proximity
to the human body


Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,
Grace Lin

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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formats), large files, etc.

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Re: [PSES] Need a switch

[John Woodgate]

I once had a DPDT knife switch with ceramic base and insulators. Rather 
big, though.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 04:01, Richard Nute wrote:

Need a switch

Hi Ken:

I interpret your requirement as DPDT, with 3 kV withstand between open 
contacts as well as 3 kV from conductors to accessible parts such as 
the switch lever.


Tough specs.

Good luck,

Rich

-


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emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to >


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site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.


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Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
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-

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