Re: [PSES] IEC 61000-6-5 vs. IEC 61000-6-2

[Bill Morse]

There are also minor differences if the product is installed in a gas-insulated 
substation, air-insulated substation, or a power station within 61000-6-5.

There is a fair amount of EMC standards that might be applicable to a device 
within a substation depending on the location of installation and function. If 
the product has a protection function, then the 60255-1, 26 might be applicable 
while protection communications might need 61850-3.

Bill

From: Charlie Blackham 
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 9:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] IEC 61000-6-5 vs. IEC 61000-6-2

[Caution - External]
Amund

There are a number of differences including:

  *   Zoning of different areas which then require different levels of tests 
against 61000-4-4; 61000-4-16 and 61000-4-18
  *   61000-4-8 Mag Field is 100 A/m continuous and 1000 A/m for 1 s (but only 
for equipment containing magnetically sensitive components)


You can read more for a few Euro at https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-61000-6-5-2015 
[evs.ee]

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
[sulisconsultants.com]
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 5:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] IEC 61000-6-5 vs. IEC 61000-6-2


IEC EN 61000-6-2, Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 6-2: Generic 
standards - Immunity for industrial environments

IEC EN 61000-6-5, Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 6-5: Generic 
standards - Immunity for equipment used in power station and substation 
environment





I'm quite familiar with IEC EN 61000-6-2 but have never tested or looked into 
IEC EN 61000-6-5.

If anyone who have knowledge about both standards and could shorty tell the 
main differences between these two?





Best regards

Amund







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Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

[Bill Morse]

Hello All,

I am wondering if the 20 V/m level was borrowed from IEEE C37.90.2, which is 
referenced in UL CCN NRGU for Protective Relays. The IEEE C37.90.x series is 
one of the industry standards for items associated with protecting and control 
of the electrical grid. It does not seem quite right but is the only link that 
seems somewhat associated.

Without being on the working group I can only speculate on reasoning, but I can 
imagine a conversation that went something like this:

Person A - "Considering the power tools, welders, spark plugs, metal lathe, end 
mill, wireless phones, short-range two-way radios, and other electrical noise 
generators I have had and used in my garage maybe the radiated immunity levels 
should be higher than 3 V/m for this end use environment."

Person B - "Your right, I remember the time "

Bill

From: James Pawson (U3C) 
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2023 1:20 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

[Caution - External]
Hi Brian,

20V/m is seen in some bands for rail standards, but I've seen it elsewhere, 
usually where there is a functional safety aspect.

Attached table from EN 55035 shows estimates of field strength vs distance from 
typical transmitters. There is also something in EN 60601-1-2 (clause 8.10 from 
memory)

All the best
James

James Pawson
Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver

Unit 3 Compliance Ltd
EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy

www.unit3compliance.co.uk 
[unit3compliance.co.uk]
 | ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk
+44(0)1274 911747  |  +44(0)7811 139957
2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL
Registered in England and Wales # 10574298

Office hours:
Every morning my full attention is on consultancy, testing, and troubleshooting 
activities for our customers' projects. I'm contactable between 1300h to 1730h 
from Monday to Friday.
For inquiries, bookings, and testing updates please send us an email on 
he...@unit3compliance.co.uk or call 01274 
911747. Our lead times for testing and consultancy are typically 4-5 weeks.




From: Brian Gregory 
mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net>>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2023 5:44 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

 Hello colleagues,

We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of 
the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2.  It calls out  IEC 61000-4-3 for 
immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 
20V/m.  Our EMC expert says typically testing is "done at 3 Vrms, which is 
standard for most products in residential environments."   He can only test up 
to 10V, and we're hearing the same from an overseas lab to whom our 
manufacturer refers.

Does FCC Part B have guidelines for field strength we can cite?   Can some 
offer this "DC guy" (aka, 60 Hz) a quick definition of what the 20V/m 
represents?

I'm guessing 20 V/m is for higher density commercial applications, aka charging 
stations, so we probably need an exception for residential.

Thank you!

Colorado Brian
720-450-4933


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RE: Clayton Pauls - Intro to EMC - an error or two? for those tha t have the text

[Bill Morse]

I believe that you have to convert everything back from the relatives.
 
Both the conductivity and the permeability then it will work.
 
For 1MHz I calculated 0.261
 
Bill
 

From: garymcintu...@aol.com [mailto:garymcintu...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 10:33 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Clayton Pauls - Intro to EMC - an error or two? for those that have
the text
 
   My anal-retentive self is having some trouble with an occasional
example in the text and I need either a confirmation or a slap in the forehead.
   I was just fiddling around with the text and reviewing some of the
examples and in section 6.4 he presents a table of skin depth for copper, but
then in question 6.2 he asks for the skin depth of steel - and the numbers for
the skin depth are the same. My calculations say otherwise and makes sense to
me since the permeability is different between the materials. copper = 1 and
steel is 1000, that and the conductivity is different between the two. 
   If you have the text and little or nothing else to do could you give me
the number you come up with? ( in mm's or mils)
   When I'm trying to learn or relearn stuff and I'm at odds with the
various references it just drives me wild and I don't have anyone else to
confer with up here. One is torn between the I'm right response and the
author's obvious authority on the subject.
   Thanks
   Befuddled (Gary)
   

RE: Sensitivity of PCS phones

[Bill Morse]

RSSI for some network certifications very it might be  -104dBm for one network
while others it can be -98dBm. Some radios will go down to -107dBm. The
numbers are measured at the antenna jack of the radio; so antenna gain and
other physical parameters effect the overall RSSI.

Someone correct me if I am wrong here, the GSM network certifications
governing documents are PTCRB and GCF, these documents list what test need to
be preformed and reference the governing GSM document on what the pass/fail
criteria and how to do the test. In this case it's GSM 11.10 section II.4.2.

If you are on a CDMA network the RSSI is the same.

Bill

 -Original Message-
From:   djumbdenst...@tycoint.com [mailto:djumbdenst...@tycoint.com] 
Sent:   Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:29 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Sensitivity of PCS phones


Hello Forum,

Can anyone tell me how I would go about finding information on the receiver
sensitivity of pcs phones?  My son is in college and we stay in touch with
Sprint pcs phones.  This worked fine until someone broke into his car and
stole his phone.  Then we found out, to no real surprise, all phones are not
created equal -- his replacement phone does not work from his residence.
The original model is no longer available.  Unfortunately, I can't seem to
find any web sites or technical support people who can provide any
information on the sensitivity of the various brands of phones offered by
Sprint.  Do any of you know where this type of information can be found?

Best regards,

Don Umbdenstock
Sensormatic


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RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists

[Bill Morse]

When the missile launched it struck another aircraft, the pilot was John
Mccain, now Senator John McCain.
 
Bill
 

From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:37 PM
To: boconn...@t-yuden.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
 
It is interesting, nonetheless, to note that the disaster occurred in July
1967, and in September of that year, MIL-E-6051C, EMC Requirements, Systems,
was updated to the D revision, which for the first time required 20 dB
safety margin demonstrations for EEDs.  Coincidence?  Perhaps...

Ken Javor


on 3/27/03 1:20 PM, boconn...@t-yuden.com at boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote:

Sir 

I must concur with Mr Woodgate. This particular instance in (very) infamous in
the U.S. Navy  USMC, but mostly for shipboard fire-fighting instruction and
damage control protocol. The flight-deck videos of this are still shown to
students of the fire-fighting school for carrier crew. 

The aircraft in question was stationary in the flight deck; it was not in the
landing phase. The failure mode was a faulty connector. One of the major
changes invoked by this disaster was the  extensiion/formalization of
enviromental stress testing (shock. vibration,  thermal). EMC was not, IMO,
considered part of the root cause. 

R/S, 
Brian 

-Original Message- 
From: King, Richard 
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:18 AM 
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
Subject: RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for 
non-special ists 

I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the 
introduction to an article, not a complete article. 

The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate 
that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; 
and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the 
importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, 
not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I 
agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these 
points would be gratefully received. 

Best regards, 

Richard King 
Systems Engineer 
Thales Communications UK 

 -Original Message- 
 From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
 Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM 
 To:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
 Subject:  Help wanted with succinct subject description for 
 non-special ists 
 
 In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier 
 U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is 
 quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray 
 electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an 
 uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled 
 fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused 
 severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. 
 
 This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a 
 **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take 
 fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and 
 functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think 
 about it for a while, you will see why. 
 
 Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim 
 is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if 
 the EMI were not present. 
 -- 
 Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 


-- 

Ken Javor
EMC Compliance
Huntsville, Alabama
256/650-5261

Power pack placement during emissions testing.

[Bill Morse]

I am in a discussion and would like to see what the general opinion is. 

The discuss centers around where to place an external power supply while doing 
CISPR 22 emissions testing; on the table, on an insulator in close proximity 
with the ground plane or on the ground plane.

The power supply is auto ranging with an input from 100VAC-250VAC with a dc 
output, power is feed into power supply from a standard IEC 60320 cord set. The 
output is non-shielded 2-conductor cable with a barrel connector at the end. 
The output cable length is about a meter.

The following are from CISPR 22
Section 8.1 the EUT shall be configured, installed and arranged and operated 
in a manner consistent with typical applications.
Section 8.1.1 to paraphrase, find the configuration for the highest emissions.
Section 8.1.2 The EUT situation relative to ground plane shall be equivalent 
to that occurring in use,.
Section 9.3 Floor-standing EUTs shall be placed on a horizontal metal ground 
plane,...,but not in metallic contact with the ground plane.
Section 9.4 Equipment designed for both table-top and floor-standing operation 
shall be tested only in the table-top configuration,.
Section 10.4 Floor-standing EUTs shall be placed directly on the horizontal 
metal ground plane, the point(s) of contact being consistent with normal use, 
but separated from the metallic contact with the ground plane by up to 12mm of 
insulation..
Figure 12  Test configuration: floor-standing and table-top equipment 
(radiated measurement) Note 4) EUT and cable shall be insulated from the 
horizontal metal ground plane.

When the power supply is on the table its emissions are 6dB below the class B 
limit, on a 2mm insulator on the ground plane it is 2dB below class B limit, 
and when placed on the ground plane it is over the class B limit by 1dB.

Reading the rules above it seems I can justify placing the power supply in all 
three locations.

My justification for placing it on the ground plane is that this configuration 
predominates in the typical end user setup and I must follow the worst case 
emission configuration.

But considering what seem to be conflicting sections in CISPR 22 I would like 
to see what the general opinions and comments are.

Appreciate the responses and help
William Morse 



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RE: Frequency Allocations for EU Countries

[Bill Morse]

http://www.ero.dk/


 -Original Message-
From:   scott@jci.com [mailto:scott@jci.com] 
Sent:   Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:53 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Frequency Allocations for EU Countries


All,

I have a question regarding frequency allocations for the European Union
countries.

Is anyone on this list aware of a source for the allocation of the RF
spectrum in the EU?
I'm looking for something similar to the following Domestic chart:

  http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf

But for EU instead...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Best Regards,

Scott Mee
Johnson Controls Inc.
Automotive Systems Group
EMC Product Compliance

616.394.2565
scott@jci.com


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RE: Emissions quick test

[Bill Morse]

I just might have to try it and add it to the repertoire of troubleshooting
techniques. 


 -Original Message-
From:   Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] 
Sent:   Thursday, August 22, 2002 1:06 PM
To: Bill Morse; 'Cortland Richmond'; ieee pstc list
Subject:RE: Emissions quick test

The technique of temperature variation is that
sensible, that heating up the *enclosure* of
a small box by hand !!! will be easily audible , if
the beat is down to only a 100 hz.
Just tapping on the pcb will also be audible, not
to let alone the effect of a freezing spray !
But you definitely need a BFO equipped (measuring) receiver.
A spectrum analyser is of no use here (grin).
This really is the fastest way of finding out the real
source of a interfering spectral line.

Note also that the difference between data/adress lines
and R/W CE and Clcok emissions can easily be distinguished
by the notable AM modulation (rythme) and using the speaker of
your receiver it's easy to distinguish between
foreign sources, (radio tv amateur cellular) and even other
equipments (PC) in the neighbourhood.
I even can distinguish between multiple processors on a large system.
If your supply is not well stabilized, you will even hear the
100 (120) Hz hum on your spectral lines !

This technique in combination with
your own ears is truly sensitive in a quality point
of view: I have proposed in the past to use a measuring receiver
for debugging purposes: a mal functioning microprocessor
will definitely produce another sound then it's fully
functioning brothers/sisters. You may astonish your
collegues by fault debugging through walls !!! ;))

Automated measuring systems are of no use outside
the shielded room for exactly the lack of distinction
between spectral lines, and those who work with
a spectrum analyser do not know what they are missing...


Gert Gremmen
ce-test, qualified testing



Gert Gremmen
ce-test qualified testing.

-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Bill Morse
Sent: donderdag 22 augustus 2002 19:01
To: 'Cortland Richmond'; Bill Morse; ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: Emissions quick test



Yep, they're many ways of doing it. Heating the crystals and watching the
frequency of interest for variation, disabling the clocks one at a time,
come to
mind.

They all have their uses and limitations.




 -Original Message-
From:   Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com]
Sent:   Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:37 PM
To: Bill Morse; ieee pstc list
Subject:RE: Emissions quick test


Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked
(sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from
among clocks only 100's of Hz apart.  Sometimes it can let you tell which
of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying
tone that makes coming into lock with the reference.

Cortland

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RE: Emissions quick test

[Bill Morse]

Yep, they're many ways of doing it. Heating the crystals and watching the
frequency of interest for variation, disabling the clocks one at a time, come to
mind.

They all have their uses and limitations.




 -Original Message-
From:   Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com] 
Sent:   Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:37 PM
To: Bill Morse; ieee pstc list
Subject:RE: Emissions quick test


Just a note about telling clocks apart... unless they're phase locked
(sometimes even then) a receiver with a BFO can let you distinguish from
among clocks only 100's of Hz apart.  Sometimes it can let you tell which
of several clocks is slower to lock as well, as you can hear the varying
tone that makes coming into lock with the reference. 

Cortland

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RE: Emissions quick test

[Bill Morse]

Every person working in the EMC field has their own techniques when dealing will
emissions issues. Mostly based on past experiences, product type, what tools
they have handy or can afford plus the political atmosphere where they work.

I am no exception, part of my list of tools include:

EMCO 3142B antenna
Fischer Custom Communications current clamp F-130B frequency range 100kHz -
1GHz.
EMCO 7405 Probe set
And a CASSPER ETS Model 2000 Virtual Chamber
Lots of small hand built probes

For me the political atmosphere is time to market and then the cost of the fix,
so any tool that speeds up troubleshooting and gives more options is easy to
justify.

The CASSPER system is mostly billed as an ambient cancellation system, which it
does fairly well up to 30dB for external outside the building noise. For
internal noise in the room/building that you are using it in it has no effect. I
vary seldom use this part of the system.

Personally I think they are not advertising correctly. 

The source localization capabilities of the unit are amazing. For reasons
unknown the design engineers where I work with like using 4MHz, 12MHz and 24MHz
clocks to run the different processors in our systems; talk about stack-up. I
think they're punishing me for transgressions in a past life. Our typical test
methodology for testing the EUT is to take it to our favorite 10m chamber if it
fails, it does happen once and awhile, we take it back to our lab and
troubleshoot it. 

I can go from looking at the signal with the CASSPER with the 3142B antenna on
channel 1 and current clamp on channel 2 using the source localization mode and
find the radiating element, typically a cable. Then switching the current
clamp, now clamped on the radiating element to channel 1 and a near field probe
on channel 2 I can find the trace and driver circuit which is the source of the
emissions. Total time under 10 minutes usually. Solutions about what to do about
it sometimes take a bit longer, but now I know the driver, path and radiating
element. I can now choose how to attack the issue to bring product into
compliance; driver, path or radiating element.

I once built a test bed with dithering clocks operating at 24MHz then mixed them
together with one of the clock signals having a 10dB attenuator in line with it.
The system used an inductively coupled loop antenna to guarantee that it would
radiate. Even with the same percentage of dithering I could tell the dithering
clocks apart.

Like any other tool it has its quirks and limitations that have to be learned
but it does the job. It is not however inexpensive.

William Morse NCE

 -Original Message-
From:   lisa_cef...@mksinst.com [mailto:lisa_cef...@mksinst.com] 
Sent:   Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:35 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Emissions quick test


Hi all,

Does anyone know of a  down- and- dirty , inexpensive method or equipment
for sniffing out emissions issues?  I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the
past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly.  Also,
Is there a universal probe kit out there?

Thank you in advance.

Lisa

Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE
Manager, Reliability and Design Services
MKS Instruments
6 Shattuck Road
Andover, MA 01810
(978)-975-2350  X 5669
lisa_cef...@mksinst.com


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RE: Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe

[Bill Morse]

On the left side of web page is bookmark for Frequency Plans then go to European
Allocations ECA on that page these are the purposed for frequencies to be
harmonized within the EU, on the right of the original page are the individual
country allocation links. 

The best you can hope for is that frequency allocation chart directs you to the
correct standard for that band and use. The technical information will be in the
standard. If it is an ETSI doc you can download them for free at
http://pda.etsi.org/pda/queryform.asp.

ETSI EN 301 489-1 might help.


Questions to ask:

Does the product fall under the RTTE?
Does the product fall under a harmonized frequency allocation?
Is there a harmonized standard?
Is it Class 1 or Class 2 product under the RTTE?
If its Class 2 then you will be needing the individual country link and doing
individual country certifications/notifications.

For the quick response, hope this helps

Technical Staff
Senior EMC Engineer
William Morse NCE
Phone 916.630.2540
FAX916.630.2501
EMAILbill...@verifone.com

 -Original Message-
From:   Robert Macy [mailto:m...@california.com] 
Sent:   Monday, August 12, 2002 1:36 PM
To: Bill Morse; emc-p...@ieee.org; richwo...@tycoint.com
Subject:Re: Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe

Bill, Rich,

Just couldn't find out all of what I wanted there.  Did find individual
country's allocation for ISM bands and that was encouraging.  What am I
doing wrong?


At this site I at least found some numbers:

http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/re
flist/radiotte.html

  ETSI EN 300 328-2 V1.1.1 (07-2000) Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio
Spectrum Matters (ERM); Wideband Transmission systems; Data transmission
equipment operating in the 2,4 GHz ISM band and using spread spectrum
modulation techniques; Part 2: Harmonized EN covering essential requirements
under article 3.2 of the RTTE Directive.  ETS 300 328/A1:1997 Date expired
(30.04.2001) Art.3.2
  ETSI EN 300 328-2 V1.2.1 (11-2001) Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio
Spectrum Matters (ERM); Wideband Transmission systems; Data transmission
equipment operating in the 2,4 GHz ISM band and using spread spectrum
modulation techniques; Part 2: Harmonized EN covering essential requirements
under article 3.2 of the RTTE Directive  EN 300

But no documents.


My question is still, What is the equivalent European requirement that
matches FCC Part 15.247 regarding ISM bands?

 - Robert -

   Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com
   408 286 3985  fx 408 297 9121
   AJM International Electronics Consultants
   619 North First St,   San Jose, CA  95112



- Original Message -
From: Bill Morse bill...@verifone.com
To: 'Robert Macy' m...@california.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe



 Try the following URL.

 http://www.ero.dk/

 Technical Staff
 Senior EMC Engineer
 William Morse NCE
 Phone 916.630.2540
 FAX916.630.2501
 EMAILbill...@verifone.com

  -Original Message-
 From: Robert Macy [mailto:m...@california.com]
 Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:07 AM
 To: emc-p...@ieee.org
 Subject: Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe


 Apologize if duplication of question here.

 Is there a website to get a copy of the European Community's rules
regarding
 ISM bands similar to FCC Part 15.245-9?

 - Robert -

Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com
408 286 3985  fx 408 297 9121
AJM International Electronics Consultants
619 North First St,   San Jose, CA  95112




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RE: Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe

[Bill Morse]

Try the following URL.

http://www.ero.dk/

Technical Staff
Senior EMC Engineer
William Morse NCE
Phone 916.630.2540
FAX916.630.2501
EMAILbill...@verifone.com

 -Original Message-
From:   Robert Macy [mailto:m...@california.com] 
Sent:   Monday, August 12, 2002 10:07 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject:Need copies of specs addressing ISM bands in Europe


Apologize if duplication of question here.

Is there a website to get a copy of the European Community's rules regarding
ISM bands similar to FCC Part 15.245-9?

- Robert -

   Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com
   408 286 3985  fx 408 297 9121
   AJM International Electronics Consultants
   619 North First St,   San Jose, CA  95112




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RE: Forensic Lab

[Bill Morse]

If it's close to Texas try Unified Investigation as a forensic lab:

Unified Investigations
223 East Greenbrier Lane
Dallas TX 75203
214 946-8989
They were both knowledgeable and very professional


For a electrical fire investigation consultant for that area try Phil Wagner I
was also impressed with his work.

He is at:

ICI Consulting
817 459-0922


 
Senior EMC Engineer
William Morse NCE


 -Original Message-
From:   richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] 
Sent:   Friday, June 07, 2002 8:35 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Forensic Lab


I am seeking a forensic lab that can analyze the probable cause of a fire in
electrical equipment. The lab must be located in the USA and preferably
located in the East or Central part of the country. Any referrals would be
appreciated.

Richard Woods
Manager Compliance Engineering
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


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RE: Australian TS001 now part of AUS/NZ60950?

[Bill Morse]

The Australian ACA TS 001 Safety Requirements for Customer Equipment states that
customer equipment shall comply with AS/NZS 3260
From TS 001

AS/NZS 3260 [4] is closely aligned with IEC 950 [6] and has variations to suit
Australian conditions

You should verify that the test house is testing to the deviations and list TS
001 as a reference in the report.


You also have to comply with TS 008 Requirements for Authorized Cabling Products
for the Telco Cable if you are shipping with one.
TS 008 in turn calls out a document named Telecommunications Labeling (Customer
Equipment and Customer Cabling) that cables also must meet.


Technical Staff
Senior EMC Engineer
William Morse NCE

 -Original Message-
From:   Alex McNeil [mailto:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com] 
Sent:   Friday, May 17, 2002 12:54 AM
To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
Subject:Australian TS001 now part of AUS/NZ60950?


Hi Group,

If I get the product, with an internal analogue modem or ISDN, approved to
AUS/NZ60950 does this mean I no longer need to get Safety Approved to TS001?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer
Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321
email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com

 -Original Message-
From:   Kevin Richardson [mailto:k...@compuserve.com] 
Sent:   Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:02 PM
To: oover...@lexmark.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:RE: Adoption of IEC-60950 3rd Ed.


Oscar,

AS/NZS 60950:2000 (IEC 60950 3rd Edition) was published as the joint
Australian / New Zealand standard.  As you can see, it was published in
2000.

Australian and New Zealand are in the balloting process for the adoption of
IEC 60950-1 and it should be published around mid year (Jun/Jul 2002).  It
will be published as AS/NZS 60950-1:2002.

Best regards,
Kevin Richardson

Stanimore Pty Limited
Compliance Advice  Solutions for Technology (including Australian Agent
Services)
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards)
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)
Email:kevin.richard...@ieee.org

The material transmitted in this message and contained in any attachments to
this message is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended
only for the addressee/s. Any unauthorised use of or reliance upon this
material by persons or entities other than the addressee/s is prohibited. If
you receive this information in error, please notify the sender and destroy
any copies of the material immediately.



-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of
oover...@lexmark.com
Sent: Friday, 5 April 2002 2:16 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Adoption of IEC-60950 3rd Ed.






Group,

What is the adoption status  for Greece, Israel, India and New Zealand with
regards to IEC 60950,  3rd Edition?
Thanx.

Oscar



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For 

RE: stun guns on aircraft

[Bill Morse]

I think he meant that swords are so much better then guns. Norman, Saxon, Moor,
Gael, Roman, Aztec, Mayan, Mongol, Greek, English and the French and just about
every society I have read about or know seemed taken by force and is defended
by force  and did quit well before the advent of the gun in killing themselves
and their neighbors.

But would not presume to speak for him.

Technical Staff
Senior EMC Engineer
William Morse NCE


 -Original Message-
From:   Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent:   Monday, May 06, 2002 4:24 PM
To: 'Ted Rook'; 
Subject:RE: stun guns on aircraft


I've resisted jumping in in this fashion, but -

FREE MEN OWN GUNS!

Those who will trade essential freedoms for temporary security deserve
neither - Benjamin Franklin.

Folks, the 2nd Amendment pre-dates the wild west by a long time.  Those of
us who value our RIGHTS are tired of the wimps in the world trying to take
them away.

Ghery S. Pettit
Life Member, National Rifle Association


-Original Message-
From: Ted Rook [mailto:t...@crestaudio.com]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:08 PM
To: 
Subject: stun guns on aircraft



and other safety considerations

keep the hijackers off planes using ground security

an airplane in flight is not the place to have gun fights

too many lives are at risk

the first priority is to get the plane safely on the ground, anywhere

then at least the passengers have a chance

Most citizens of most countries enjoy the security that comes from having
thrashed out land rights, territorial disputes, and the systems of law and
law enforcement before firearms were invented.

America is one of the few places in the West that relies on firearms as a
negotiating tool.
This is poor judgement. 
Firearms are offensive weapons not negotiating tools. 
Giving someone a gun escalates an already dangerous situation. 
Now you want the pilot to not only assure the safety of the plane but also
be an effective executioner. 
Asking too much IMHO.
Unfortunately America was taken by force and is defended by force and is
unlikely ever to change.




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