RE: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements
by Peter in an earlier email, i.e.: Non-prescribed electrical equipment A person who sells non-prescribed electrical equipment must comply with section 120 of the Regulation. Generally speaking all non-prescribed electrical equipment must comply with the safety criteria of AS/NZS3820 (Essential safety requirements for low voltage electrical equipment). This would include, but not be limited to: *a test report showing compliance to the relevant Australian product standard; *if no relevant Australian product standard exists, a test report showing compliance to another relevant standard such as AS/NZS3350.1, AS/NZS60335.1 or AS/NZS 3100; *a certificate of approval issued as per relevant Australian/NZ legislation; *another method consistent with clause 5 of AS/NZS 3820 Usually, the easiest way means of complying is by way of the 1st option of using a test report showing compliance with with the relevant Australian product standard. Consumer Protection Laws Consumer protection laws by way of the Australian Trade Practices Act also require the device be safe and fir for purpose. Safe is defined as complying with the relevant Australian product safety standard or generic safety standard where no product standard exists so by default, in complying with the Electrical Regulations of the various Australian States/Territories you comply with the consumer protection laws. While the consumer protection laws concern all aspects of safety, not just electrical safety, by complying with the Australian product safety standard you would be considered to have taken all reasonable precautions. Safety of a Telecommunications Device The Australian telecommunications regulations have specific safety requirements and require the product Compliance Folder includes, apart from other things, a test report to AS/NZS 60950.1 from an RTA (Recognised Testing Authority). A listing of RTA test labs is maintained by NATA (National Association of Testing Authorities). A CB test lab is not necessarily an RTA so a CB test report may not be acceptable. The issue mentioned by Ron about ACMA auditors not accepting a test report to IEC 60950.1 + Australian National deviations etc should not occur where: * the IEC 60950.1 report also clearly states compliance with Australian National deviation according to AS/NZS 60950.1:2003 (the report should clearly spell out the Australian standard, including the version); and * the test report is from an RTA listed test lab; and * is an endorsed test report (i.e. clearly states the test report is produced under the test labs accreditation to test to that standard and identify the accrediting organisation etc) Hope this helps along with the input from others. Best regards, Kevin Richardson Stanimore Pty Limited Compliance Advice Solutions for Technology (Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services) Ph: 02-4329-4070 (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) Fax: 02-4328-5639 (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) Mobile: 04-1224-1620 (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) Email:kevin.richard...@stanimore.comorkevin.richard...@ieee.org URL: www.stanimore.com Confidentiality This material (this email including all attachments) may contain confidential and/or privileged information intended to be read or used by the addressees only. If you are not one of the intended recipients, any copying, disclosure, distribution, use of or reliance upon this material is prohibited. If you receive this material in error, please immediately notify Stanimore Pty Limited and delete/destroy all copies (electronic and hardcopy) of this email and all attachments. While the sender tries to ensure the accuracy of the information contained in this material, Stanimore take no responsibility for any actions taken as a result of receiving this material or for any consequence of its use. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Pickard, Ron Sent: Saturday, 21 February 2009 4:34 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements Dan, Jim et al, I believe the Australian document that you were requesting is the ACMA’s EMC Handbook, which can be accessed at: http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aca_home/ ublications/reports/industry/manuals/emcbook.pdf http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aca_home/ ublications/reports/industry/manuals/emcbook.pdf The ACMA does not impose safety requirements for C-tick (ACMA) or RCM (Regulatory Compliance Mark, owned by AU NZ regulators) markings, but I believe the “state authorities” that Peter refers to do and are the provincial electrical authorities (refer to Appendix D) which must ensure that equipment attaching to the electrical power grid is safe and in almost all cases pertains to power supplies
RE: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements
Dan, Jim et al, I believe the Australian document that you were requesting is the ACMA’s EMC Handbook, which can be accessed at: http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aca_home/p blications/reports/industry/manuals/emcbook.pdf http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aca_home/ ublications/reports/industry/manuals/emcbook.pdf The ACMA does not impose safety requirements for C-tick (ACMA) or RCM (Regulatory Compliance Mark, owned by AU NZ regulators) markings, but I believe the “state authorities” that Peter refers to do and are the provincial electrical authorities (refer to Appendix D) which must ensure that equipment attaching to the electrical power grid is safe and in almost all cases pertains to power supplies and power cords. Please note that in some cases, registration will be needed. Also, Appendix E may also apply to your product. So, it is a good idea to also include an acceptable Australian/New Zealand safety report and the electrical authority’s acceptance, where applicable, into the product’s DofC and the compliance folder. In regard to your last question, although a CB certificate/report with AU/NZ deviations does indeed cover your product for safety in Australia New Zealand, the ACMA has been a bit persnickety during compliance folder audits about it preferring actual AS/NZS 60950-1 reports generated from NATA accredited labs. If anyone can point to an actual ACMA requirement on this point, we all would be grateful. I hope this answered your questions and as always, I stand to be corrected where needed. Comments? I look forward to your reply. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Robson Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:47 AM To: pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Dan Roman Subject: RE: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements Peter, I have been researching this issue also. Can you tell me what Australian document says that C-tick marked ITE (non-Telco) equipment must comply (and/or be tested to) with AS/NZS 60950? The Telecommunications Labelling (Customer Equipment and Customer Cabling) Notice 2001 definitely calls out AS/NZS 60950 for Telco equipment. The Radiocommunications Labeling (EMC) Notice 2008 which covers ITE does not call out AS/NZS 60950. You also wrote does not require a safety approval from a state authority. Do mean AS/NZS 60950 testing must be done at an approved lab and then cite AS/NZS 60950 on the Declaration of Conformity? Regards, Jim Robson From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter merguerian Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:43 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Dan Roman Subject: Re: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements For safety, this is not a perscribed equipment and therefore does not require a safety approval from a state authority However, the product must still comply with the Australia safety requirements in AS/NZS 60950.1. This standard is harmonized with IEC60950-1 so if you comply with the standard and its' Austrlia devioations, you're good to go. Peter Merguerian --- On Fri, 2/20/09, Dan Roman dan.ro...@dialogic.com wrote: From: Dan Roman dan.ro...@dialogic.com Subject: Australia C-Tick and safety requirements To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 7:23 AM Hello all, I’m passing along two questions for a friend that I cannot answer because they are outside of my product area of expertise. The product in question is a passive line filter for use with a PC. It contains overvoltage and line filtering components (some coils, caps, and MOVs). 1. Does the C-Tick mark for non-telecom equipment require both EMC and safety declarations? I know that for the telecom equipment my company produces, the ACA requires telecom, safety, and EMC (A-tick and C-tick) but I don’t know if the safety portion is a telecom specific requirement or not. If the answer is the C-Tick is for EMC only, are there other requirements for safety or other marks that would apply to this product in Australia? I am sure there must be. 2. Does a passive device like this fall under EMC requirements? CISPR 22/EN55022 don’t specify a lower frequency limit exempting products, so this passive line filter connected to a 50 Hz supply would appear to need testing. Everything I deal with has clocks in excess of 1 GHz these days so this question never came up where I work! It is always interesting getting questions outside of your normal day to day experience. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. Product Regulatory Engineer Dialogic Research Inc. 1515 State Rt. 10 Parsippany, NJ 07054-4538
RE: EN 60950-1 Safety Report Template
Carl, The TRF's are indeed copyrighted and they can be purchased at the IEC's webstore or your company can become IECEE members whereby the TRFs are available to you free of charge from the CB Scheme website's member area. Brian has the right idea though and aside from the CB report fairy, if you have the time and/or inclination, you should be able to create your own template format from an EN test report. As Ted suggested, you might be able to wangle a copy from a NRTL or other agency you've been working with, but that’s not too likely a possibility. So, you might have to step up and put down some green to buy it. It may very well be cheaper in the long run. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:45 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: EN 60950-1 Safety Report Template The IEC TRFs are copyrighted. The last CB test report issued for one of your products ? A CB test report that has been published on-line by another company for one of their products ? The CB report fairy ? From: Carl Newton [mailto:emcl...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:29 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: EN 60950-1 Safety Report Template I seem to recall a few years ago there was a thread here in which a list member was looking for a report template for EN 60950-1, similar to a CB Scheme type of report. The idea is simply to use that template to create a safety report in support of an LVD self-declaration. Does anybody out there have such a thing that they are willing to share? Or can you point me toward such an item online somewhere? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: New Turkey Requirement
Tim, It was my experience in a past life that Turkey, especially Turkish Customs, has for the last few years been quite fanatical about enforcing/validating CE compliance of products entering Turkey. Turkish Customs was very particular for newly manufactured products (products held at Customs until they were satisfied). I also remember that Turkish Customs only accepted telecom/radiocom compliance via EU/ETSI standards (we even had to provide test reports on occasion). This I believe was started with their application for membership into the EU and has, however, turned into an over zealous barrier of trade of sorts. The components you’ve listed might be considered to be apparatus under the new EMC Directive depending on their intended availability to the end user. I suggest that you read through the new EMC Directive and its Guide, both available on the Europa website, and how they relate to components. From that, you might get the reasoning of Turkish Customs. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter merguerian Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:06 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org; emcp...@aol.com Subject: Re: New Turkey Requirement This is not new. Turkey has for many years ollowed the EU guidelines for CE Markings and DoC. They must be enforcing it now for FRU apparatus. One exception is wireless/telecom homologations - Turkey still requires approvals by their telecom/radiocom regulator Best Regards, Peter --- On Fri, 1/23/09, emcp...@aol.com emcp...@aol.com wrote: From: emcp...@aol.com emcp...@aol.com Subject: New Turkey Requirement To: emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 4:22 PM Hello group, Have anyone heard of a new requirement by Turkey start this month for CE? They are asking to have CE DoC for all sub-assemblies (Field Replaceable Units) example is memory DIMMs, SFP's, PCI cards etc. that are used in network servers or appliances. This is based on EMC directive which was released in 2004. Thanks, Tim Pierce TAP Engineering Know Your Numbers: Get tips and tools http://www.walletpop.com/credit/credit-reports?ncid=emlcntuswall0002 to help you improve your credit score. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: In house test equipment
Hi Grace, Pardon my lack of intimate familiarity of the inner workings of BSMI, but what is the meaning of “the third department of BSMI”? Does BSMI actually have a “third department”? Also, do you know what the problem with BSMI’s website (www.bsmi.gov.tw http://www.bsmi.gov.tw/ ) is as it reports an “unknown www server” error when attempting access? I am guessing that their web server is currently disabled for the moment. Or, is the web address different? Please advise. I look forward to your reply. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:54 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: In house test equipment You may address your question to the third department of BSMI. - Grace On 1/19/09, codymil...@micron.com codymil...@micron.com wrote: Hi all, I have a question regarding Taiwan regulatory requirements. We have some in house custom bench top test equipment we have designed and use in our company. We would like to send a couple units to our plant in Taiwan. Do I need to have the equipment tested to meet Taiwan regulator standards. We do not sell this item and we at most will ship a couple units into our Taiwan facility. Thanks, Cody - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@ptcnh.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: CE logo dimension in small products
John et al, Unfortunately, this CE marking disparity very likely originated from the CE Marking Directive itself, which amended several directives with inconsistent CE marking requirements. Subsequent repealing directives simply carried those inconsistencies forward. However, I agree that a definitive text should be referenced (or copied verbatim) instead of creating separate and different requirements per directive. But, since this situation has existed for many years now, it's unlikely to be corrected any time soon. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:26 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: CE logo dimension in small products In message 9d3c09c155d9904299b427d6d2b1bf97032a9...@int-ev1.corpnet.intermec.com, dated Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Pickard, Ron ron.pick...@intermec.com writes: I would have thought that there would've been better consistency regarding the CE marking procedure specified in CE marking related EU directives. Indeed; it is something that is often complained about to the Commission, but so far nothing has happened. What should happen is that each Directive should refer to, not quote, a definitive text, presumably in the CE Directive itself. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Things can always get better. But that's not the only option. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Safety Experts: Limited Voltage Pwr Supplies vs. Non-Limited Voltage Power Supplies
Hi Christine, It’s always a joy experiencing part substitutions, eh? And, LPS actually refers to a Limited Power Source as defined in the IEC60950-1 series. Anyway, have you had a chance to review the other power supply’s applicable safety report(s)? Whether it is or is not LPS will be determined (and your comfort level) during that review. That missing LPS marking could simply be an oversight on the part of that manufacturer or it’s not a LPS. The fact is that you really won’t know until you look at the reports, and I hope that that manufacturer will make the safety report(s) available to you. Also I believe that the LPS marking is an accepted industry practice, not a regulatory requirement. If anyone disagrees with this, please provide a compelling argument. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Christine Rodham Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:39 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Safety Experts: Limited Voltage Pwr Supplies vs. Non-Limited Voltage Power Supplies Hi List Members, We have a vendor that provides us a unit that uses an external power supply ( 90- 240VAC) The power supply is labeled LPS after the model number which means: Limited Voltage Power Supply. They recently changed vendors to another power supply with the EXACT same rating Except it was not marked as a LIMITED voltage power supply. Our supplier says this is not a compliance / safety issue because both supplies are recognized by UL and have the same voltage and current rating. So the $64, dollar question is can you use a non- LPS in place of a LPS if they have the same rating? Thanks in advance, Thank you in advance! Christine Rodham - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Safety Experts: Limited Voltage Pwr Supplies vs. Non-Limited Voltage Power Supplies
Christine, As I and others have stated, the LPS requirement comes from IEC/EN/UL/etc 60950-1 safety standards, but this is of course assuming that 60950-1 is the safety standard that that manufacturer employed, which may not be acceptable to your product’s safety requirements. And as others have indicated, you will probably need to address other issues in your product if that new power supply is not LPS regardless. The addition of that new power supply will probably not be as simple as you might have envisioned. So, get a copy of the new power supply’s safety report(s), validate LPS (or not), and work with your NRTL CB NCB to determine what you need to do to make the new power supply acceptable for your product. Your product’s safety reports will likely need to be updated to reflect the new power supply anyway. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Christine Rodham Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:38 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Safety Experts: Limited Voltage Pwr Supplies vs. Non-Limited Voltage Power Supplies List Members, Thanks for all the great replies! Would it make sense to see if the end product can pass safety with the non-LPS power supply? Is the the LPS clause just a CB scheme requirement or is it required for NRTL approval also? Best regards, Christine Rodham Christine Rodham chrisrod...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi List Members, We have a vendor that provides us a unit that uses an external power supply ( 90- 240VAC) The power supply is labeled LPS after the model number which means: Limited Voltage Power Supply. They recently changed vendors to another power supply with the EXACT same rating Except it was not marked as a LIMITED voltage power supply. Our supplier says this is not a compliance / safety issue because both supplies are recognized by UL and have the same voltage and current rating. So the $64, dollar question is can you use a non- LPS in place of a LPS if they have the same rating? Thanks in advance, Thank you in advance! Christine Rodham - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall request
Scott et al, To answer your question, typical of the case that most, if not all, of the subscribers of this forum can attest, electronic products are subject to government and industry regulations concerning product safety, electromagnetic noise radiation/immunity and wireless/wired telecommunication. Compliance engineering is a term to describe the engineering activities to ensure that products conform to these regulations. Mostly compliance engineering focuses its attention on published regulatory and industry standards, ensuring that products are in compliance with those regulations. Regulatory standards are those adopted by national governments and are almost exclusively mandatory. Industry standards (Bluetooth, GSM, UMTS, Wibree, RS-xxx, EIA/TIA, etc.) are those standards where compliance may be needed but are not legally mandatory. And in some instances, such as the EU and the US, there is a need to review and interpret government legislation such as the EU’s Directives and the US’s Code of Federal Regulations. In that aspect, compliance engineering does mimic the legal profession. In the limited amount of time that I have today, I wanted to quickly answer your question in a nutshell and hope that the above has adequately answered your question. And, if anyone cares to interject, add or correct the above in any way, please do. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:42 AM To: Pickard, Ron; 'Nick Williams' Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Hi Ron, Thanks for your useful information and helpful guidance. What is a compliance engineer? Is it responsible for ensuring the products in compliance with all legal requirements? Scott From: Pickard, Ron [mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com] Sent: 2009年1月13日 03:54 AM To: Nick Williams; Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical product recall Nick, The operational guidelines link for businesses (for dangerous consumer products) to which you refer is at: htt ://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/guidelines_business_en.htm. It's stated to be new there, but the actual linked document is dated 2004, so I guess we’ll have to wait for the revised edition. Scott, As others from the hoards of us legally unwashed have given sound advice and good references for your company to develop a recall plan, the recall plan that your company develops may likely have to pass scrutiny with your legal dept/management and some likely legal/contractual issues. Also, googling “safety recall plan” should give you several links for you to understand what a recall plan will look like and how to develop one. I hope you find this useful, but please note that I am a compliance engineer and in no way resemble a lawyer, attorney, barrister, counsel(or), legal eagle, ambulance chaser, etc, etc. Therefore, the above is not legal advice and should not be considered as such. If it was, I would be charging you at least $500/hr (with a retainer). Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick Williams Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall There is information at the following sites which will be of assistance to you: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/index_en.htm http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consume s/Safety/products/unsafe-notification/index.html Somewhere in this lot there is a guidance document which provides a basis for an assessment of whether a recall is necessary. I can send you a copy if you cannot find it in the links on the above pages. At a seminar in November last year, we were told that this guidance is being revised and a new model for assessment has been agreed. Heaven only knows if/when this might make it out into the public domain. Nick. At 00:45 +0800 13/1/09, Scott Xe wrote: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgemc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-ps chttp://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/http://www.ieee-pses.org
[Bulk] RE: Requirements in Ghana
Hi Anders, You should be able to find what you’re looking for on Ghana’s National Communication Authority (NCA) website at http://www.nca.org.gh/index.asp. Ghana’s Ministry of Communication’s website might also be useful at http://www.moc.gov.gh/. IHTH. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Anders Svensson B Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Requirements in Ghana Dear experts, Anyone who knows the requirements for Ghana for EMC, Product Safety, SAR, Radio, environmental etc. The product have WLAN 802-11 b/g and GSM 850/900/1800/1900 bands and UMTS band FDDI/II and V functionality. All input is welcome! Best regards Anders - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Electrical product recall
Nick, The operational guidelines link for businesses (for dangerous consumer products) to which you refer is at: htt ://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/guidelines_business_en.htm. It's stated to be new there, but the actual linked document is dated 2004, so I guess we’ll have to wait for the revised edition. Scott, As others from the hoards of us legally unwashed have given sound advice and good references for your company to develop a recall plan, the recall plan that your company develops may likely have to pass scrutiny with your legal dept/management and some likely legal/contractual issues. Also, googling “safety recall plan” should give you several links for you to understand what a recall plan will look like and how to develop one. I hope you find this useful, but please note that I am a compliance engineer and in no way resemble a lawyer, attorney, barrister, counsel(or), legal eagle, ambulance chaser, etc, etc. Therefore, the above is not legal advice and should not be considered as such. If it was, I would be charging you at least $500/hr (with a retainer). Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Nick Williams Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: Scott Xe Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Electrical product recall There is information at the following sites which will be of assistance to you: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safety/rapex/index_en.htm http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consume s/Safety/products/unsafe-notification/index.html Somewhere in this lot there is a guidance document which provides a basis for an assessment of whether a recall is necessary. I can send you a copy if you cannot find it in the links on the above pages. At a seminar in November last year, we were told that this guidance is being revised and a new model for assessment has been agreed. Heaven only knows if/when this might make it out into the public domain. Nick. At 00:45 +0800 13/1/09, Scott Xe wrote: It is a quite common terms in the industry and mostly related to safety hazard. We would like to establish a process for the product recall. Is there any important rules or guidance to follow for a meaningful and absolutely necessary recall? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;mailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgemc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-ps chttp://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user guide.htmlhttp://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.ht lhttp://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.netemcp...@ptcnh.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgmcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;mailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgj.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;mailto:dhe...@gmail.comdhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
FCC HAC acceptance
Greeting to all in this new year, I was just reviewing the FCC’s HAC requirements, which made me wonder how well the FCC’s HAC requirements are accepted globally, or if at all. Are there any countries that accept the FCC’s HAC requirements? And, are there any other countries that also impose their own HAC requirements? If you know of any, what are those requirements? I look forward to your reply(ies). Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing
Hi Grace, Then for the sake of consistency, does the BSMI also confirm 3m distance is acceptable per CNS13438, or not? Just curious. I look forward to your reply. Best regards, Ron Pickard Intermec Technologies Cedar Rapids, IA (319) 369-3142 ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:45 AM To: Grasso, Charles Cc: emcp...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing Hi Charles and others, BSMI confirms data taken at 3m per CNS13439 requirements is acceptable. Regards, Grace Lin On 1/8/09, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote: Hi Grace – CNS13439 requires a 3m test to prove compliance. Do you know if this will be an issue for the BSMI? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:40 AM To: emcp...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing David, Tim, and Others: It is still an issue in Taiwan. BSMI do not feel comfortable to accept 3m data due to the near field concern. If CISPR 22 (or its replacement) committee explicitly accepts 3m data, BSMI will accept 3m data. Regards, Grace On 1/6/09, Heald, David david.he...@garmin.com wrote: Tim, I know that this has been an issue in Taiwan in the past - I had a submission rejected a few years ago for this reason. I'll defer to someone with more recent experience with Korea since the regulating agencies just changed there - the last approval I completed there was at my last job just before the change occurred (now I'm realizing that I haven't sought approval for a non radio device for a long time in Korea so there's another reason to defer to someone else). As for 1-4, for most devices, you're dealing with self-declaration or its equivalent. This is up to you to determine if your results indicate compliance in a 10m chamber since a 10m chamber is the common reference indicated in most emissions standards. Taking the assumption you state into account, you should be in good condition. It would be a good idea to obtain some correllational data to a 10m chamber to confirm you're getting similar results (and use some engineering judgement in the near field). This is a short response to a complex issue, but I hope it was somewhat helpful. Best Regards, -Dave From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of emcp...@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:39 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing Hello Group, I would like to know if radiated emission test data taken at a 3 meter distance in a 5 meter semi-anechoic chamber is valid for qualification testing for the following: Please assume that the chamber is fully validated with volumetric NSA. 1. FCC/Industry Canada 2. VCCI (Japan) 3. Australia/New Zealand 4. Europe 5. Taiwan 6. Korea I ask this question because I have been hearing that some countries do not accept 3 meter chamber data. Thanks for your help. Tim Pierce New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026 . - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
RE: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing
Hi Grace, Thanks for the speedy reply. Since BSMI was confirmed to allow 3m data per CNS13439, I had to ask about CNS13438 even though I expected they wouldn’t. Sometimes, surprises can be discovered in places you will least expect and I was somehow trolling for such a surprise, but alas…. Also, I have appreciated your contributions to this list and hope you continue to do so. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 11:09 AM To: Pickard, Ron Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing BSMI confirms test data taken at 3m per CNS13438 is NOT acceptable. - Grace On 1/9/09, Pickard, Ron ron.pick...@intermec.com wrote: Hi Grace, Then for the sake of consistency, does the BSMI also confirm 3m distance is acceptable per CNS13438, or not? Just curious. I look forward to your reply. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:45 AM To: Grasso, Charles Cc: emcp...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing Hi Charles and others, BSMI confirms data taken at 3m per CNS13439 requirements is acceptable. Regards, Grace Lin On 1/8/09, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote: Hi Grace – CNS13439 requires a 3m test to prove compliance. Do you know if this will be an issue for the BSMI? From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grace Lin Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:40 AM To: emcp...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing David, Tim, and Others: It is still an issue in Taiwan. BSMI do not feel comfortable to accept 3m data due to the near field concern. If CISPR 22 (or its replacement) committee explicitly accepts 3m data, BSMI will accept 3m data. Regards, Grace On 1/6/09, Heald, David david.he...@garmin.com wrote: Tim, I know that this has been an issue in Taiwan in the past - I had a submission rejected a few years ago for this reason. I'll defer to someone with more recent experience with Korea since the regulating agencies just changed there - the last approval I completed there was at my last job just before the change occurred (now I'm realizing that I haven't sought approval for a non radio device for a long time in Korea so there's another reason to defer to someone else). As for 1-4, for most devices, you're dealing with self-declaration or its equivalent. This is up to you to determine if your results indicate compliance in a 10m chamber since a 10m chamber is the common reference indicated in most emissions standards. Taking the assumption you state into account, you should be in good condition. It would be a good idea to obtain some correllational data to a 10m chamber to confirm you're getting similar results (and use some engineering judgement in the near field). This is a short response to a complex issue, but I hope it was somewhat helpful. Best Regards, -Dave From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of emcp...@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:39 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: 5 Meter Chamber For EMI Qualification Testing Hello Group, I would like to know if radiated emission test data taken at a 3 meter distance in a 5 meter semi-anechoic chamber is valid for qualification testing for the following: Please assume that the chamber is fully validated with volumetric NSA. 1. FCC/Industry Canada 2. VCCI (Japan) 3. Australia/New Zealand 4. Europe 5. Taiwan 6. Korea I ask this question because I have been hearing that some countries do not accept 3 meter chamber data. Thanks for your help. Tim Pierce New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026 . - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from
RE: Cables On The Floor
Hi Ed, Google spherical cow and you'll be enlightened. And given the concept, I'm quite sure the term could find its way into a status report or two. :-) Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Price, Edward Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:17 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Cables On The Floor -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:21 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Cables On The Floor In message 9d04b979323dcd428297dda95108893e0120c...@bb-corp-ex2.corp.cubic.cub, dated Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com writes: You would think that the odds of stepping on the cable would be 285 to 1. You might, initially, but think about this. To make the math easier, assume a square room and 289 footprints (17^2). So there are 24 footprints along a diagonal. Lay a cable along that diagonal, and all 24 footprints cover it, to a greater or lesser extent. Then there are 23 new footprints along the other diagonal, then 15 new ones along each side... So with 6 cables we have 107 footprints on them, out of 289. Admittedly, this includes 'spherical cow' type approximations, but it shows a trend. -- John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK I'll defer to your logic, as I was sick the day they explained combinations and permutations to us. BTW, I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's a spherical cow? I think that might great to be able to authoritatively cite that in my next lab status report! Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Outlet Connector 250VAC 2.5 amps
Hi TOB, You might find what you're looking for from Shurter at: http://www.schurter.com They have quite an assortment of panel mount IEC 60320 style power input connector products, filtered and unfiltered. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of pat.law...@slpower.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:30 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Outlet Connector 250VAC 2.5 amps You're almost there. 'Outlet' versions of the IEC 320 connectors you mentioned would be type C5 or C7. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector#C7_and_C8_connectors However, I don't know where you would buy a chassis-mount version of a C5 or C7. Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. 6050 King Drive, Bldg. A emc-p...@ieee.org wrote on 12/10/2008 11:31:49 AM: I'm looking for an AC Outlet connector similar to the IEC 60320 C6 or C8, but an outlet instead of an inlet. I need to run AC power out of my product to a small external device which mounts on the side (lab equipment) and will only draw less than 2 amps at 230 Vrms. I do not want to use the large Appliance outlet connector. Any suggestions? I checked Interpower and Power Dynamics but no luck. Wouldn't such an application require the ground pin to mate first and break last? If so then I would be able to use just any connector. The Other Brian _ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: FCC testing approved transmitter module in host product
Hi Bob, If your product utilizes a detachable antenna, a dummy load may replace the antenna per ANSI C63.4 (13.1.3.1). The term “detachable” in this standard is not defined, so is left to interpretation. Technically speaking, if an antenna internally or externally connects to a transmitter via connector, then the antenna could be considered to be detachable. Therefore, the detachable antenna may be replaced with a dummy load during AC conducted emissions testing. However, you know your product’s design and if the RFID antenna is detachable or not. As a suggestion, consult with your test lab to decide if your antenna would be considered to be detachable and if use of a dummy load would be acceptable in your case. IHTH. Please note that the above is my expressed opinion only, except for the standard reference. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of bob syes Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:22 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: FCC testing approved transmitter module in host product Worldly Experts, I am having a problem with a product meeting FCC Class A conducted limit at 13.56 MHz due to radiated signal from internal RFID unit coupling into AC supply conductors. The host product complies with Class A limits without RFID module transmitting. RFID has FCC modular approval, but was compliance tested for conducted emissions using a dummy load in place of the antenna. Is it therefore acceptable to also test host product (for FCC Class A compliance) with module transmitting into dummy loads instead of actual antenna? A search of the FCC knowlege database did not turn up any clues. adTHANKSvance Bob Sykes EMC Engineer - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
HAC and the FCC
To all, The FCC is in the process of imposing HAC requirements for digital wireless phones. I am asking those intimately knowledgeable with that process if this requirement would also apply to specific B2B products that also include digital wireless phone capability? I am asking this group as earlier requests to the FCC for clarification on this point remain unanswered. If there is a specific FCC point of contact for this, please provide me with the contact details. I look forward to your reply. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com mailto:ron.pick...@intermec.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Deviation of Performance Criteria - other question.
Piotr, Please also consult the EU's EMC Directive guidance document for further clarification, which can be found at: http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/guides/emcguide_may2 007.pdf As you have mentioned, your equipment is not a finished product and is not being put onto the market in the classic sense, but your students may likely be considered as being end users from the directive's perspective. Even if not being marketed commercially, it may still be considered to be placed on the market when being put into service as described in the Guide. However, if your device, as you describe it, may be considered as a sub-assembly being made available use by students (end user), then it is considered as an apparatus and the EMCD applies. However, if your device may be considered as being inherently benign (see Guide), the EMCD may not apply. But, even if your device must comply with the directive, an assessment (you have the freedom to define/describe that assessment) should demonstrate conformance with the essential requirements of the directive (Article 5, Annex I). IMHO, your previous arguments posted in this thread could form the basis of that assessment. Please note that the Guide provides flowcharts that might be helpful in your navigation of this applies/or not decision process for the EMCD. So, my advice to you would be to read the directive (Article 4.3 may be of interest) AND the Guide thoroughly to understand what applies to your device and what doesn't and your situation. Finally, it may be wise to consult with someone very familiar with the technical and legal aspects of the EMCD to provide you with a firm basis for you to proceed. I hope that you understood my reply as I tried to describe my opinions well enough in English for you. I also understand that this may have raised more questions for you, which may not be a bad thing. Education is good thing, don't you think? Personally, this forum has been a wonderful learning experience for me over the years, and I hope for others as well. Maybe this will spawn more comments from our more learned colleagues, thereby adding to a consensus on this subject. IHTH and please note that my contributions above are solely my opinions only. Best regards, Ron Pickard ron.pick...@intermec.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Piotr Galka Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC; Sterner, David (NY80) Subject: Re: Deviation of Performance Criteria - other question. - Original Message - From: Sterner, David (NY80) david.ster...@honeywell.com Under EMC directive 2004/108/EC, apparatus means any finished appliance or combination thereof made commercially available as a single functional unit, intended for the end user and liable to generate electromagnetic disturbance, or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such disturbance. As your classroom lab equipment does not seem to fit this definition, some provisions of the directive are therefore non-applicable. Marking is another issue. I'd really like to understand you, but I'm not good at English (really I hardly understand not electronic English). So please tell me what do you suggest ? My equipment: - is not finished appliance ? - is not commercially available ? - is not functional unit ? - pupil at school are not end users ? - it not generates electromagnetic disturbance and can't be affected by such disturbance ? and why do you think so ? I'd be very happy if I can be sure my equipment does not fit this definition but it looks I miss some point you see it. Best Regards Piotr Galka - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and
