[PSES] German Required on Product Label to Match China and Nordic for (GS) ?

[Rick Linford]

Dear EMC-PSTC Pros,



Specific to ITE IEC 62368-1 type standards and German GS certification.
(many power supplies and ITE product carry GS mark)

Is German language required on products to match the text of other
countries requirement to obtain German GS?

And (not or) add a statement that non-German text is not important to
Germany?



China elevation and humidity waring is written into law and is very clear.
Is there an equivalent German law and or specific German text?

仅适用于海拔2000米以下地区安全使用

仅适用于在非热带气候条件下安全使用



Nordic countries grounded plug warning, is specific to national differences
in IEC 62368-1. I cannot find German equivalent in IEC 62368-1:2014, is it
there?

Apparaten skall anslutas till jordat uttag.

Apparatet må tilkoples jordet stikkontakt.

Laite on liitettävä suojamaadoituskoskettimilla varustettuun pistorasiaan.



Standard does state to provide safety information and instruction in
language of use and there is German law it must be in German. This has been
the case for decades.



A recent GS certification was held up until compliance with adding text.
They are marking other countries requirements de facto German GS
requirement. Already aware German GS is not a legal requirement and there
many GS issuers. I would have expected PSTC to be lit up already, if this
was a requirement applied to every manufacturer of ITE and AV with GS.
Starts now, I guess.


I am representing myself. I am not asking for any past, current or future
employer.
Linford@IEEE

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Re: [PSES] [Spam] Re: [PSES] "how to fish" - UKCA extension legislation.

[Rick Linford]

Hi Doug,

Great link, but sorry for my ignorance of UK governance. To be clear this was a 
committee approval, it still needs to be approved by full House of Commons and 
the House of Lords before it is law, is that correct?

Does it require Prime Minister's signature?

@ Lauren Crane thanks for getting this started. The proverb about teaching a 
man(person) to fish comes to mind. And yet I still asked questions.

Rick

From: Douglas Nix <0bb8ff993b10-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 8:19 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [Spam] Re: [PSES] "how to fish" - UKCA extension legislation.

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

Andrew, Colleagues,

I watched the proceeding today, and the proposal received acceptance after some 
debate. If you missed it, you can view the recording here: 
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/072dac0e-318e-403b-bd0c-29d3834427dd#player-tabs/.
 It's also possible to download a recording for those that want to obsess over 
the details.

There is no further clarity on plans for the future beyond the extension of the 
mandatory implementation date.

Doug Nix
d...@mac.com

"The way to solve the conflict between human values and technological needs is 
not to run away from technology. That's impossible. The way to resolve the 
conflict is to break down the barriers of dualistic thought that prevent a real 
understanding of what technology is - not an exploitation of nature, but a 
fusion of nature and the human spirit into a new kind of creation that 
transcends both." - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig





On Dec 6, 2022, at 05:12, Andrew Wood 
<170ccaf92990-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:

Lauren,
Thanks for this info.
Having browsed around the parliament website a little, I have found that the SI 
has it's own webpage and appears to be scheduled for another committee meeting 
tomorrow at 2.30pm (that will be GMT) that is available to watch on 
parliament.tv.
>From the link you gave 
>https://commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/
>   scroll down to other business on the left and select 3rd item down 
>Statutory Instruments, enter "metrology" in the search box and the top hit is 
>this SI. Clicking through brings up the webpage which opens by default on 
>"details". Click the timeline tab just above dates laid and notice a debate 
>scheduled for tomorrow 7th December.

Clicking on that brings you to this page: 
https://committees.parliament.uk/event/16420
Hope this might be of interest.
Andy

Regards,

Andrew Wood
Compliance Manager - Hazardous Areas



Direct: +44 (0) 1246 581592
Address: AMETEK Land, Stubley Lane, Dronfield, Derbyshire. S18 1DJ England
E-mail: andrew.w...@ametek.com| Web: 
www.ametek-land.com

[PSES] Post Brexit Day Jan 31 2020, where is UK going with CE mark?

[Rick Linford]

Not seeing update for several months, now post Brexit; Does anyone have insight 
how long the CE will be accepted for UK compliance of ITE? Will other mark be 
required?

Thank you in advance.
Rick Linford


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[PSES] Job Posting for South SF Bay area

[Rick Linford]

Dell | Sonicwall has a job opening for a Regulatory Engineer.

Job Description:
Responsible for insuring that Dell | Sonicwall products comply with US and 
world-wide standards for electrical safety, electromagnetic compatibility 
(EMC), Wireless, and hazardous substance restrictions.

-  Electrical and safety compliance to IEC 60950 based standards. Other 
standards from time to time may need to be supported.

o   Work with safety agencies like UL, TUV, NEMKO and others.

o   Prepare documentation specific to safety approvals.

-  Stay current on worldwide regulatory compliance requirements and 
proactively inform the design team and project management of any related 
impending requirements.

-  Take part in design reviews and review early documentation to advise 
of any compliance issue, and solutions to avoid them.

-  Be present as required for EMC and safety tests.

o   In the event of failures test failures recommend design changes to meet 
compliance requirements.

-  Makes sure label text and marks or logos meet the requirements for 
the specific countries per the approved marketing plan.

-  Make sure manual language and required text meet the requirements 
for the specific countries per the approved marketing plan.

-  Review and approve RoHS and other hazardous substances compliance 
documents from component to system level.

-  As part of a team implement and train vendors on hazardous 
substances process used by Dell.

-  All regulatory work to be managed as part of an overall team to meet 
schedules.

-  Work with other Dell regulatory organizations to obtain required 
approvals.

-  Upload regulatory approvals to Dell | Sonicwall servers so they can 
be accessed by authorized staff.

Requested Experience and Skills

-  BSEE or equivalent.

-  Knowledgeable in the latest hazardous substances, EMI/EMC/safety 
regulatory test and or requirements for both the U.S. and the rest of the world.

-  Must have minimum 5 years experience in EMC and safety from design 
to final approval for ITE equipment. And working with companies or authorities 
like UL, CE, FCC, VCCI, BSMI, ANATEL and etc.

-  Must have 3 years of experience with worldwide environmental 
standards and regulations, including WEEE, RoHS, and REACH.  This should 
include a thorough understanding of the documentation required to meet these 
standards.

-  Must be organized and able to multi-task and prioritize tasks.

-  Must understand technical design documents, and communicate 
efficiently with a broad range of stakeholders.

-  Good written and verbal communication skills with the ability to 
work with other professionals from different cultures and languages from around 
the world.
Sonicwall is located at 2001 Logic Drive, San Jose, CA 95124.

Please email resume to rick_linf...@dell.com

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Re: [PSES] Test Setup for a Display Powered by a PoE Injector

[Rick Linford]

Hi Grace,


1.   Both the display (POE Powered Device (PD)) and POE injector (POE 
source) should have separate reports. Recommend testing them separately because 
the general idea of POE source is to provide power to a device at some distance 
from AC mains source.  But they could be tested at the same time.
2 and 3. Yes plug into LAN and yes it must be exercised. Ping may be acceptable 
for some or most test but Telecom conducted requires a percentage of the rated 
speed. Immunity requires monitoring performance. Investigate worse case modes 
of Ethernet speed, 10/100/1000 megabits per second. If POE source is also being 
evaluated consider worse case loads, may require other POE PDs to get different 
loads.

Looking forward to discussion on Dieter Paasche's added question; Should the 
touch panel be touched during the test (maybe with some moving fixture)? Is it 
even possible?

Good luck,

Rick


From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Test Setup for a Display Powered by a PoE Injector

Dear Members,
Could you please give your comments on the test setup for a display 
(touchpanel) powered by a PoE (power over Ethernet) injector? More specifically:
1. Does the PoE injector need to be part of the EUT (equipment under test) and 
placed on the turntable next to the EUT? Or, can the PoE injector be placed 
remotely (under the ground plane or outside of the chamber)? The PoE injector 
is marketed/packaged separately from the EUT. Both the EUT and PoE injector are 
marketed by the same manufacturer.
2. There are two ports, in addition to the power port, from the PoE injector: 
PoE LAN and LAN. PoE LAN port connects to the EUT. Need the LAN port of 
PoE injector be connected to LAN?
3. Need the LAN port of PoE injector be exercised? If yes, is Ping command 
good enough?
Thank you very much for your time and look forward to hearing from you.
Best regards,
Grace Lin
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Re: [PSES] EU NLF directives

[Rick Linford]

Hi Brian,

I don't recall #10 Self declaration may no longer be possible for anything 
scoped by RoHS, LVD, and/or EMCD., being implied or suggested in anything 
crossing my disk so far. What sources might you have that may lead me to the 
same concern?

Thanks 

Rick  

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: EU NLF directives

reference this:
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/regulatory-poli
cies-common-rules-for-products/new-legislative-framework/

Doing some reading in prep for RoHS recast reporting. After reading the NLF 
regs (765/2008, 768/2008) and the proposals for LVD and EMCD recast, and losing 
much karma through brain leakage, I have summarized these affects:

1. Everyone in the 'chain' is responsible. While all 'economic operators'
are said to be responsible, there are some that may not be legally held 
accountable.
2. Each EU state will have a sole national accreditation body as regulatory and 
to grant accreditation.
3. The 'CE' mark should be the sole indicator of conformity, and must display 
(adjacent) the ID of the NB. All NLF-affected stuff shall be serialized and 
marked with a product identification; shall have instructions; shall have mfr 
contact info. All languages where placed on market must be addressed for DofC 
and manual (is Klingon an EU language?).
4. Import fees or some other additional tax will be required to support 
accreditation and surveillance bodies.
5. All test facilities will have to be accredited to act as a 3d party lab.
6. Any state can submit a 'reasoned request', and the mfr/rep must provide all 
required data. So all CE-marked electrical stuff must have a TF/TCF and D of C.
7. Mfrs/importers/reps/distributers must determine that the product is 
compliant.
8. All NBs will be subject to peer review, and the CABs/NBs have some level of 
liability.
9. ISO 9k/14k factory registration becomes pro forma requirement.
10. Self declaration may no longer be possible for anything scoped by RoHS, 
LVD, and/or EMCD.
11. All records, including TF, DofC, test records, inspections, et al have 
10year retention.

Did I miss any important points? Do any of above have incorrect interpretation?

Brian

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[PSES] Power adapter change from ITE to Medical.

[Rick Linford]

Sorry for so many question at once and I am researching this in several ways, 
but I know and trust this group's experience and opinions. Want to change an 
approved ITE 5 port Ethernet router switch device with external ITE power 
adapter to medical grade power adapter. This is a desk top type power adapter 
with IEC 320 appliance coupler.

Is it wrong (or maybe how wrong is it) to assume that a 40 watt AC-DC 12 VDC 
out power adapter meeting 60601-1 (safety) and 60601-1-2 (EMC) will meet or 
exceed 60950-1 (safety) and EN55022 Class B/EN 55024 (EMC)?

Can the secondary be earth grounded on a 60601-1 power adapter (i.e. 
green/yellow wire from input tied to secondary)?

Does harmonic (61000-3-2) and flicker (61000-3-3) apply to medical devices if 
over 75W?

Are WEEE and RoHS exempt from medical?

Is there anything else I should keep an eye out for in this conversion?

Thank you

Rick Linford




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RE: EN60950 (UL1950, IEC 60950) On off switch marking.

[Rick Linford]

Hi Scott,

The power cord acts as the disconnect.

Rick Linford 
SonicWALL

 -Original Message-
From:   Scott Barrows [mailto:sbarr...@curtis-straus.com] 
Sent:   Friday, April 27, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Rick Linford
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:Re: EN60950 (UL1950, IEC 60950) On off switch marking.

Hi,
If the switch is being used as the disconnect device it needs to
disconnect
both poles simultaneously (2.6.6). 1.7.8.3 only refers to on and off
indications of the equipment.

So I guess I need to know if the switch is being used as a disconnect or
just to turn the machine on and off.

Scott Barrows
Curtis Straus LLC

Rick Linford wrote:

 Hi All,

 When a switch opens only one leg of  the mains to control power to
 equipment should it be marked with the l and O?

 Background:

 Three different engineers from three different NRTLs indicated it is
 permitted, two even required it. A different engineer for one of the
 NRTLs and two other respected individuals indicate it is prohibited.
It
 will be interesting if members of this list will have the same 50/50
 split or if there is a correct answer.

 (single phase 100 to 240 VAC, 2A, 50-60 Hz, intended to be shipped US,
 Canada, EU and generally internationally)

 To help, IEC 60950 (1999), section 1.7.8.3 Symbols, is shown below.

 Where symbols are used on or near controls, for example switches, push
 button, etc., to indicate ON OFF conditions, they shall be the
line
 l for ON and the circle O for OFF (60417-1-IEC-5007 and
 60417-1-IEC-5008). For push-push type switches the symbol {line in
side
 the circle} shall be used (60417-1-IEC-5010).

 It is permitted to use the symbols O and l to indicate the OFF and
 ON positions of any primary or secondary  power switches, including
 isolating switches.

 A STAND-BY condition shall be indicated by the symbol {line breaking
 the circle at the top} (60417-1-IEC-5009).

 My bias was not included in the 50/50 statistics noted above but I
 believe it is required.

 Rick Linford
 Regulatory Engineer
 SonicWALL

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EN60950 (UL1950, IEC 60950) On off switch marking.

[Rick Linford]

Hi All,

When a switch opens only one leg of  the mains to control power to
equipment should it be marked with the l and O? 

Background:

Three different engineers from three different NRTLs indicated it is
permitted, two even required it. A different engineer for one of the
NRTLs and two other respected individuals indicate it is prohibited. It
will be interesting if members of this list will have the same 50/50
split or if there is a correct answer.

(single phase 100 to 240 VAC, 2A, 50-60 Hz, intended to be shipped US,
Canada, EU and generally internationally)

To help, IEC 60950 (1999), section 1.7.8.3 Symbols, is shown below.

Where symbols are used on or near controls, for example switches, push
button, etc., to indicate ON OFF conditions, they shall be the line
l for ON and the circle O for OFF (60417-1-IEC-5007 and
60417-1-IEC-5008). For push-push type switches the symbol {line in side
the circle} shall be used (60417-1-IEC-5010).

It is permitted to use the symbols O and l to indicate the OFF and
ON positions of any primary or secondary  power switches, including
isolating switches.

A STAND-BY condition shall be indicated by the symbol {line breaking
the circle at the top} (60417-1-IEC-5009).

My bias was not included in the 50/50 statistics noted above but I
believe it is required.

Rick Linford
Regulatory Engineer
SonicWALL


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Harmonized Frequencies

[Rick Linford]

Greetings,

I am hoping the group can help me with this one.

Is there an address on the Internet that has a list of harmonized
transmitter frequencies for Europe?

Thank you.

Rick Linford



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[Fwd: FCC Questions.]

[Rick Linford]

Hi All,

Here is my two cents worth. (if it is worth anything)


When to test.
Any digital device that uses clock speeds equal to or greater than 9 kHz
must be tested.  Only computers and computer peripherals are allowed
Class A levels
when they are not home use, all other devices must meet Class B

When to involve the FCC.
Case 1
If the digital device is not a personal computer or personal computer
peripheral the manufacturer must keep a verification report on file.

Case 2
If the digital device is home use and is a personal computer or personal
computer peripheral the manufacturer can use the FCC Deceleration of
Conformity (FCC DoC) or Certification routes to authorization.  FCC DoC
requires testing be done at an accredited lab and no submittal to FCC.
With Certification use a lab listed (listed is not the same as
accredited) with the FCC, submit the report and $$$ fee to the FCC for
approval after 8 weeks.

Electronic copies of the latest CFR 47 Part 15, Subpart B are available
at the FCC web site, www.ffc.gov/oet

Rick Linford
DNB ENGINEERING, INC.


---BeginMessage---
Hi Jon, 

I'll take the plunge and give you some of 
my answers below ... 

 From: Jon Bertrand j...@cirris.com
  
  Hello Everyone,
  
  A lot of budding midnight designers ask these questions on the 
  microcontroller newsgroups so I thought I'd ask them here - and
learn 
  something :)
  
  (If I've missed some FAQ that covers this please let me know.)
  
  1)  Say I'm building some microcontroller based widget in my home 
  business that runs model trains (or whatever).  It's not an
intential 
  transmitter, its typically used in the home.  And I want to sell
them. 
  Do I need some FCC approval.

Yes. 

CFR 47 Part 15 specifies not only minimum 
frequencies at which your little device 
operates (I believe anything above 7kHz) 
but also power (I believe anything above 
picowatts). I'm positive someone here will 
list the specifics. I unfortunately do not 
have the standard in front of me. 

  Specifically do I need to:
  
  1.a)  Spend money having someone test emissions.

Yes. For reason why see answer to 1.b) below. 

  1.b)  File some paperwork with the FCC.

Yes. Since your device will be used in a residence, 
you will need Class B which involves registration. 
Registration will cost you. 

  2)  If I don't have the money for testing - but I really do know how

  to keep my microcontroller quiet (i.e I know loop area, di/dt, and 
  maybe even have done lots of other 'approved' products)  - and a 
  little in-home testing shows it doesn't bother the rabbit ears or 
  show-up on the AM or FM radio.  Would I be in violation of some law
if 
  I just sold the darn thing.

By the book, yes.  See CFR 47 Part 15. 

CFR I'm sure you know stands for Code of Federal Regulations, 
i.e. Federal Law. You're also assuming that the only reason 
you'll get in trouble is for interference.  Not really true. 
Take it to a trade show, have it be the quietest thing around, 
have some representative from the FCC look for a label or 
proof of testing and there is none, you're in trouble. 

What's the probability of this happening? 
Who knows... 

  2.a)  Would I be in violation if it really was quiet to CISPR (i.e. 
  would have passed).  (i.e. is there now a CE mark like compliance
that 
  lets me self declare and assert who's responsible).

Woaw! Wait a minute.  CE mark?  Thought is was just FCC.  
You're going to Europe, haven't tested the device, 
are assuming it's quiet and yet you're marking it?  
Don't do it. 

This is not FCC approval. The FCC only validates testing 
for the US. It really doesn't approve anything (if I remember 
a previous discussion about this from way back). 

  3)  How does the FCC verify that I don't pollute the EM band - do
they 
  random sample train widgets or wait for someone to complain.

Depending upon some factors - both. 
Remember, the complaint could be from a competitor... 
I was at a trade show a long time ago where someone 
was yanked out of their booth by Federal Marshals. 

Bottom line for whoever is asking you, 
get it done, get the thing passed, 
then don't worry about it. 

Oh yea, don't forget about UL either.  ;) 

Regards,  Doug 

---End Message---
attachment: vcard.vcf

CE and Video Games

[Rick Linford]

Hi Group:

To apply the CE mark:

Does video game equipment (Netindo, Sony, Sega, etc...) and game
components fall under a family standard, generic emission and immunity
or as someone has suggested to me emission only?

Does applying the Toy Safety directive 88/378/EEC exempt the equipment
form EMC Directive 89/336/EEC and Low-Voltage Directive 73/23/EEC?

Thanks

Rick Linford
DNB Engineering, Inc.
Phone 801-336-4433, Fax 801-336-4436
E-mail rlinf...@allwest.net