Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

2024-04-17 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Ralph,

 

For EMC you can follow this link :
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/51314

For LVD:  https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/57244

 

(this links directly to the summary .pdf files)

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: rmm.priv...@gmail.com  
Sent: woensdag 17 april 2024 19:14
To: bart.de.gee...@telenet.be; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

 

Thank you, Bart.  I'll try that link for EMC and LVD harmonized standards
listing.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ralph

 

From: bart.de.gee...@telenet.be 
mailto:bart.de.gee...@telenet.be> > 
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 10:06 AM
To: rmm.priv...@gmail.com  ;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

 

Hi Ralph,

 

Is this what you are looking for?

 

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/european-standards/
harmonised-standards_en

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Ralph McDiarmid mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>
> 
Sent: woensdag 17 april 2024 19:04
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

 

Can someone provide a link to this list.  I have searched eur-lex.europa.eu
website without success.  

 

Ralph

 

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Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

2024-04-17 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Ralph,

 

Is this what you are looking for?

 

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/european-standards/
harmonised-standards_en

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Ralph McDiarmid  
Sent: woensdag 17 april 2024 19:04
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards

 

Can someone provide a link to this list.  I have searched eur-lex.europa.eu
website without success.  

 

Ralph

 

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Re: [PSES] Labelling in Canada

2023-10-06 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Niels,

 

Did you look into the below webpage?

 

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/en/devices-and-equipment/interference-causing-equipment-standards-ices/ices-gen-general-requirements-compliance-interference-causing-equipment#s5.3

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Niels Hougaard <27ee5df789dc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> 
Sent: vrijdag 6 oktober 2023 10:03
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Labelling in Canada

 

Hello,

Product in question is a loudspeaker for commercial marked.

It is going to be sold in Canada and question is, if the labelling concerning 
EMC should be 

 

This Class B apparatus complies with Canadian ICES-003.

Cet appareil de la classe B est conforme à la norme NMB-003 du Canada.

 

or if Canada accept CISPR 32 so that the labelling should be

 

This apparatus complies with Can/CSA CISPR 32-17 (B)

Cet appareil est conforme à la norme NMB-CISPR 32-17 du Canada.

 





Mvh./Regards,
Niels Hougaard
Bolls ApS

Denmark
Tlf. 4818 3566
Direkte 5379 6991
www.bolls.dk  

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Re: [PSES] 50Hz Product and the EMC Directive

2023-09-27 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Scott,

 

The directive also states:

 

ANNEX I

ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS

1.   General requirements

Equipment shall be so designed and manufactured, having regard to the state of 
the art, as to ensure that:


(a)

the electromagnetic disturbance generated does not exceed the level above which 
radio and telecommunications equipment or other equipment cannot operate as 
intended;

 


(b)

it has a level of immunity to the electromagnetic disturbance to be expected in 
its intended use which allows it to operate without unacceptable degradation of 
its intended use.

 

 

*   Besides the ‘emission’ part of the test there is also the ‘immunity’ 
related aspect of it.  (You can do electrostatic discharge, EFT, surge and 
other tests).   (and I do not see a reason why products not containing active 
oscillators would be excluded from immunity testing). 
*   Although your product might not contain an active oscillator, I have 
seen products that only contained a few passive components, but where the 
manufacturer still succeeded to make an active oscillator (unwantedly) that 
exceeded the legal limits by more than 30 dB.  

 

 

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Scott Douglas  
Sent: woensdag 27 september 2023 15:35
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 50Hz Product and the EMC Directive

 

Hello List Experts,

We have a product that operates at line frequency (50 or 60 Hz). It is a power 
conditioner which includes filtering, surge suppression, and extreme voltage 
shut down. It is purely analog and contains nothing more complex than 
transistors.

We believe the EU EMC Directive does not apply to the product because it does 
not operate any higher than 60 Hz and cannot generate EMI whether radiated or 
conducted. 

>From EU Directive 2014/30/EU, Article 2 (2 (d)):





2. This Directive shall not apply to:




(d) equipment the inherent nature of the physical characteristics of which is 
such that:




(i) it is incapable of generating or contributing to electromagnetic emissions 
which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication equipment and other 
equipment to operate as intended; and
(ii) it operates without unacceptable degradation in the presence of the 
electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use;




I am not aware of any EMI standards that cover this type of product, most 
conducted EMI starts at 9kHz or 150 kHz, and radiated EMI typically starts at 
30 MHz. 

There is an inspector in an EU country that believes the EMC Directive does 
apply. Their letter makes these statements:

The EU Declaration of Conformity (DoC) is incorrect or incomplete (Article 15; 
Annex IV; etc. of EU Directive 2014/30/EU).

A conformity assessment procedure seems to be incomplete (Article 14) to 
demonstrate that the apparatus meets the essential requirements set out in 
Article 6 and Annex I of EU Directive 2014/30/EU. EU Directive 2014/30/EU is 
missing.


Our DofC does not list the EMC Directive, specifically because we think it does 
not apply. It also does not list any EMI/EMC standards as we find none that 
apply.

Is there a Harmonized Standard that would cover this type of product for the 
EMC Directive?

Is it normal to list a directive in a DofC if that directive does not apply? 

How does one convince the inspector that the directive does not apply?

 Looking forward to any and all comments.

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

2023-07-21 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Brian,

 

Just for your information, in Europe residential EV chargers  (for charging
an EV with AC voltage), typically needs to fulfill the requirements of EN
61851-21-2  (product standard for off-board EV chargers).  In this standard
you will find the applicable test levels for immunity testing.  One of the
tests that needs to be performed is the radiated immunity test according EN
61000-4-3.  (This is the basic standard which specifies how a radiated
immunity test should be performed, in this test standard you find typical
test levels, however in this case the product standard is where you should
look to find the applicable test level.

 

If the charger will be located solely in a residential environment, a
fieldstrength of 3V/m is applicable.  For locations other than residential
10V/m is required.  (modulation used: 80% AM 1kHz in both cases).  

Typically testing is performed in two operational modes: 

 1) the charger is in charging mode 

 2) the charger is in waiting mode.

 

20V/m is more than needed  (which is of course allowed, but not typically
done by manufacturers)

 

FCC  (for the US region) does not require immunity testing to be performed.
So in FCC part 15B, you'll only find emission limits. So, not related to
your question.

 

I hope it helps.

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Brian Gregory  
Sent: vrijdag 21 juli 2023 18:44
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting

 

 Hello colleagues, 

 

We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of
the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2.  It calls out  IEC 61000-4-3
for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field
strength of 20V/m.  Our EMC expert says typically testing is "done at 3
Vrms, which is standard for most products in residential environments."   He
can only test up to 10V, and we're hearing the same from an overseas lab to
whom our manufacturer refers.  

 

Does FCC Part B have guidelines for field strength we can cite?   Can some
offer this "DC guy" (aka, 60 Hz) a quick definition of what the 20V/m
represents?

 

I'm guessing 20 V/m is for higher density commercial applications, aka
charging stations, so we probably need an exception for residential.  

 

Thank you!

 

Colorado Brian 
720-450-4933

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Re: [PSES] FCC Part B questions

2023-07-08 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Brian,

 

F.Y.I. You can find the FCC rules online  (so also Part 47)

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15/subpart
-B

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Brian Gregory  
Sent: zaterdag 8 juli 2023 6:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] FCC Part B questions

 

 

 Hi there,

 

A question came up that I can't answer w/o a copy of Part 47.

Does the FCC report require Quasi-Peak (QP) data, or just Avg and Peak.
When do peak readings trigger the need to report QP?  I'm pretty sure Part
15 has AVG and QP limits listed.

 

Next was what sort of margin is expected in order to pass CE emissions
requirements (CISPR 16 or 32)?  Memory serves that one wants 3dB of margin,
but memories can be imperfect! 

 

"Colorado" Brian 
720-450-4933

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Re: [PSES] e-Labeling

2023-04-03 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Hi Peter,

 

The below page indicates which labels exist:

 

 
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/labels-markings/index_en.htm

 

How do you affix the CE label:

 

The CE marking must be visible, legible and indelible.

The CE marking must consist of the initials "CE", both letters should have the 
same vertical dimension and be no smaller than 5mm (unless specified 
differently in the relevant product requirements).

If you wish to reduce or enlarge the CE marking on your product, you should 
respect the proportions of the two letters. As long as the initials remain 
visible, the CE marking can take different forms (for example colour, solid or 
hollow).

If the CE marking cannot be affixed to the product itself, you can affix it to 
the packaging if there is any, or to any accompanying documents. If your 
product is subject to several EU directives/regulations which require a CE 
marking to be affixed, the accompanying documents must indicate that your 
product conforms to all applicable EU directives/regulations.

 

So I guess e-labelling a product is not sufficient.  Maybe there are other 
opinions…

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org 
<06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> 
Sent: maandag april 2023 5:14
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] e-Labeling

 

Hello group, 

 

Does anyone know if EU accepts e-Labeling for IT products? 

 

Thank you

Peter

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of a high voltage output supply for laboratory / industrial environmental use

2022-08-18 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Thanks Gert,

 

I agree with you that the LVD directive is indeed applicable: 

 

I looked up the original tekst which states the below:  (the confusion was that 
another source was stating that both input and output voltages needed to fit 
within these limits, which does not seem to be the case. )  The standards you 
refer were indeed also the onces we were considering at first.

Article 1

Subject matter and scope

The purpose of this Directive is to ensure that electrical equipment on the 
market fulfils the requirements providing for a high level of protection of 
health and safety of persons, and of domestic animals and property, while 
guaranteeing the functioning of the internal market.

This Directive shall apply to electrical equipment designed for use with a 
voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for alternating current and between 75 
and 1 500 V for direct current, other than the equipment and phenomena listed 
in Annex II.

 

 

Thanks for your help !

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

Van: Gert Gremmen  
Verzonden: donderdag 18 augustus 2022 21:59
Aan: bart.de.gee...@telenet.be; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] CE marking of a high voltage output supply for laboratory 
/ industrial environmental use

 

Dear Bart,

As the input is within the LVD limit, the whole equipment is.

EN 61326-1 comes to mind for EMC

EN 61010-1 for electrical safety

The output is just a "circuit" (in terms of 61010) and clearance and creepage 
requirement (up to 60 kV) are given in Table 6 and 7

There are more requirements than just clearance and creepage.

Good luck in making your equipment safe.

Gert Gremmen

 

On 18-8-2022 21:43, bart.de.gee...@telenet.be 
  wrote:

Dear experts,

 

A client is looking for regulatory guidance to CE certify a high voltage output 
supply  (with regular AC mains 230V/50Hz input).

The supply has an output voltage upto 25kV (upto 50kHz) output.   It concerns a 
supply to be used for plasma reactor applications.

 

As the output voltage is not inside the  voltage limits for the Low Voltage 
Directive, the LVD directive is not applicable?

The  Machine Directive also excludes these high voltage products.

 

So, wondering which Directive to apply related tot he safety testing part.  
(The General Safety Product Directive?)  

Any suggestions as to which safety standard to apply for such products?

 

Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

 

Thanks !

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[PSES] CE marking of a high voltage output supply for laboratory / industrial environmental use

2022-08-18 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Dear experts,

 

A client is looking for regulatory guidance to CE certify a high voltage output 
supply  (with regular AC mains 230V/50Hz input).

The supply has an output voltage upto 25kV (upto 50kHz) output.   It concerns a 
supply to be used for plasma reactor applications.

 

As the output voltage is not inside the  voltage limits for the Low Voltage 
Directive, the LVD directive is not applicable?

The  Machine Directive also excludes these high voltage products.

 

So, wondering which Directive to apply related tot he safety testing part.  
(The General Safety Product Directive?)  

Any suggestions as to which safety standard to apply for such products?

 

Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

 

Thanks !


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Re: [PSES] ECE R10 - Addendum 9 - rev. 6 / Applicability of this regulation for ESA type of equipment with a particular 'interface type"

2021-03-13 Thread Bart De Geeter 
Thanks for the clarifications Matthew !   

 

Your opinion matches with what we meanwhile also concluded.

 

From: Matthew Wilson | GBE  
Sent: vrijdag 12 maart 2021 18:26
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ECE R10 - Addendum 9 - rev. 6 / Applicability of this 
regulation for ESA type of equipment with a particular 'interface type"

 

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/16513/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native

 

Category C in the table is if you have determined that the ESA is involved, as 
per UNECE Regulation 10.5 Section 2.12, with immunity related functions, i.e. 
one of

affecting the direct control of the vehicle, 

relating to driver, passenger, or other road users’ protections, 

liable to cause confusion to the driver or other road users if disturbed, 

for vehicle data bus functionality 

affecting vehicle statutory data, 

or for vehicle RESS charging  (Rechargeable Energy Storage Systems)

 

That needs type approval.

 

If not then it’s category D and that lists, “Devices connecting to the 
cigarette lighter interface inside a car” as not requiring type approval, but 
the application of the EMC directive instead – probably with EN 50498:2010 
Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) -

Product family standard for aftermarket electronic equipment in vehicles.  
(Which I think that standard pretty much has similar requirements to that of 
the type approval, just you don’t need the e-mark bureaucracy).

 

I think I would also argue that the previous box in the flow chart ‘connected 
permanently or temporarily to the vehicle wiring harness’ is no for a 
cigarette/cigar lighter socket – that’s an interface not the harness, it’s part 
of the car and so would already be covered. And that leads also to, “No 
application of regulation no. 10” just the EMC directive as per my paragraph 
above.

 

All this just my opinion but HTH.

 

Matthew Wilson,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

 









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From: bart.de.gee...@telenet.be   
mailto:bart.de.gee...@telenet.be> > 
Sent: 16 February 2021 08:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] ECE R10 - Addendum 9 - rev. 6 / Applicability of this 
regulation for ESA type of equipment with a particular 'interface type"

 

Dear All,

 

In this regulation there is a flowchart under section 3.2.1 which helps you to 
determine whether this regulation is applicable for testing for 
Electrical/electronic sub assembly products (ESAs)

 

At a certain moment the following question appears in this flowchart:  
"Connected via an interface type approved to this regulation as amended?".  Is 
there somebody that knows how I should interpret this question?   Where can I 
find the 'approved interface types as amended?"   

 

If the product to be tested is connected only to the standard cigar lighter 
(for 12V supply).  Is this interface an interface which is approved as amended??

 

Thanks in advance for any advice related to this topic.

 

Greetings,

Bart

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Re: [PSES] RED: Legal requirement to use LVD or EMCD Harmonized Standards

2021-02-16 Thread Bart De Geeter 
Hi Paul,

 

Maybe you can look into the following document:
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/33162

 

Check paragraph 2.6.

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

From: Paul Scott  
Sent: dinsdag 16 februari 2021 15:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RED: Legal requirement to use LVD or EMCD Harmonized
Standards

 

The RED refers to the LVD and EMCD objectives when it comes to setting the
essential requirements. 

 

Is there a legal requirement to apply harmonized standards (from the LVD and
EMCD where applicable) in order to achieve presumption of conformity for CE
marking requirements?

 

Regards,

 

Paul Scott

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[PSES] ECE R10 - Addendum 9 - rev. 6 / Applicability of this regulation for ESA type of equipment with a particular 'interface type"

2021-02-16 Thread bart . de . geeter 
Dear All, 

In this regulation there is a flowchart under section 3.2.1 which helps you to 
determine whether this regulation is applicable for testing for 
Electrical/electronic sub assembly products (ESAs) 

At a certain moment the following question appears in this flowchart: 
"Connected via an interface type approved to this regulation as amended?". Is 
there somebody that knows how I should interpret this question? Where can I 
find the 'approved interface types as amended?" 

If the product to be tested is connected only to the standard cigar lighter 
(for 12V supply). Is this interface an interface which is approved as amended?? 

Thanks in advance for any advice related to this topic. 

Greetings, 
Bart 

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Re: [PSES] EN61000-4-6 adapters

2018-12-29 Thread Bart De Geeter 
Hi Derek,

According to me Fig 8e is just a construction sample of a 150 Ohm to 50Ohm 
adapter.  (An L-shaped metallic bracket).  This bracket is put on top of the 
reference plane.  (But this reference plane is not drawn in this picture).
Typically this adapters are used when performing the 'reference calibrations' 
and they are always on top of the reference plane.

(P.S.  I looked to the pictures of the 2013 version of the standard)

Greetings,
Bart

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: DEREK WALTON <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> 
Verzonden: zaterdag 29 december 2018 19:59
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: [PSES] EN61000-4-6 adapters

Good day folks,

I’m re-educating myself on EN61000-4-6 and looking at the section discussing 
150 Ohm to 50 Ohm adaptors I am curious why the series 100 Ohm resistor is 
added on the “Outside” of the reference plane for the EM Clamp and on the 
“Inside” of the reference plane for the CDN. For example, Figure 8e Vs Figure 
9c ( these two figures appear conflicting ) Vs Figures A 9/A 10

Can anyone enlighten me as to why this was done please.

A Happy New Year to all!

Cheers,

Derek.

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Re: [PSES] IEC 60601-1-2: 2014 Basic Safety and Essential Performance Pass/Fail Criteria

2017-12-30 Thread Bart De Geeter 
Hello David,

 

I would refer to the following part of the EN60601-1-2:

 

6.1 General

The documentation of the tests shall contain all the information necessary
to facilitate

adequate planning (test plan) and execution (test report) of the tests so
that they can be

readily reproduced.

Compliance is checked by inspection of the test report.

6.2 Test plan

Prior to the start of formal testing, a detailed test plan shall be provided
to the test laboratory.

Deviations from the test plan shall be documented in the test report. See
Annex G for

guidance on the recommended content of a test plan.

 

 

Annex G states  (although informative) that following information should be
present as suggested minimum test plan content)

 

3 Description of the BASIC SAFETY and ESSENTIALPERFORMANCE including a
description how the BASIC SAFETY and ESSENTIAL PERFORMANCE will be monitored
against the pass/fail criteria during each test

 

13 IMMUNITY pass/fail criteria:   Specific IMMUNITY pass/fail
criteria for BASIC SAFETY and ESSENTIAL PERFORMANCE as per the RISK ANALYSIS
(see Annex I)

 

 

Hence, for your ESD case.

 

You should ask the supplier for his EMC  risk assesment study.   (and his
PASS/FAIL criteria for the ESD test).

 

If out of his study, the conclusion is that if the EUT ‘Stops’ after a 15kV
discharge, that this behaviour is acceptable and poses no ‘risk’ for the
patient  then the test has PASSED.  In the EMC report the observed behaviour
should be noted and your conclusion should be based on the provided
pass/fail criteria, which is a result of the suppliers risk assessment.

 

At least, this is my interpretation of the standard. To all people on copy
of the reflector, feel free to comment on this.  

 

 

Greetings,

Bart

 

 

 

Van: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] 
Verzonden: donderdag 28 december 2017 7:38
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: [PSES] IEC 60601-1-2: 2014 Basic Safety and Essential Performance
Pass/Fail Criteria

 

Hello

A manufacturer of medical equipment has declared that his device has no
basic safety or essential requirements.

During ESD testing, the device stopped working after Air Discharges of ±15
kV were applied.

Is this regarded as a failure according to the standard?

No Part 2 particular Safety standards are involved.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

 

Regards,

David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer

Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. LOD 7120101 Israel

Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101

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