Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
Thank you all. We will do one PDF with couple of pages as that seems to be a safer bet. -Original Message- From: Charlie Blackham To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wed, Mar 1, 2023 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC Dan You might not have had it rejected, but there’s no way to be 100% sure that it has been, and always will be excepted – it could just be because no one has taken a detailed look. Some market enforcement agencies have rejected DoCs for, in their view, incorrect spaces – a specific example: EN 60335-1:2012+A11:2014+A13:2017+A1:2019+A2:2019+A14:2019 was accepted by a German Regulator. But EN 60335-1:2012 + A11:2014 + A13:2017 + A1:2019 + A2:2019 + A14:2019 was not. I would normally say “you couldn’t make this up” – you can’t – it’s true !! As others have noted, the declaration phrase on the CE and UKCA DoCs are different, so I would recommend against combining them as it gives a market regulator an angle to attack your DoC, and an “administrative non-compliance” opens you up to impounding and/or audit testing at your expense. I would suggest a better alternative would be to have one PDF document, that contained several pages, each one with a DoC for a separate jurisdiction, such as 3 pages for example, one each for EU, UK and Aus. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web:https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 01 March 2023 21:09 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC We’ve been combining both onto one document. It sometimes makes the document go to a second page because of the extra information. We include Australia and anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well. Haven’t had it rejected by anyone yet. Dan From: Andres Waszczenko [mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC Hello Peter, I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought. Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are different between the UKCA and the EU. Regards, Andres Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard 1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 andres.waszcze...@entrust.com From: MIKE SHERMAN Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Yes, that is what we concluded. In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. Mike Sherman PSC LLC On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org wrote: Hello Group, I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK? Thanks Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher David Heald To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings ar
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
Dan You might not have had it rejected, but there’s no way to be 100% sure that it has been, and always will be excepted – it could just be because no one has taken a detailed look. Some market enforcement agencies have rejected DoCs for, in their view, incorrect spaces – a specific example: EN 60335-1:2012+A11:2014+A13:2017+A1:2019+A2:2019+A14:2019 was accepted by a German Regulator. But EN 60335-1:2012 + A11:2014 + A13:2017 + A1:2019 + A2:2019 + A14:2019 was not. I would normally say “you couldn’t make this up” – you can’t – it’s true !! As others have noted, the declaration phrase on the CE and UKCA DoCs are different, so I would recommend against combining them as it gives a market regulator an angle to attack your DoC, and an “administrative non-compliance” opens you up to impounding and/or audit testing at your expense. I would suggest a better alternative would be to have one PDF document, that contained several pages, each one with a DoC for a separate jurisdiction, such as 3 pages for example, one each for EU, UK and Aus. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 01 March 2023 21:09 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC We’ve been combining both onto one document. It sometimes makes the document go to a second page because of the extra information. We include Australia and anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well. Haven’t had it rejected by anyone yet. Dan From: Andres Waszczenko [mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC Hello Peter, I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought. Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are different between the UKCA and the EU. Regards, Andres Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard 1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 andres.waszcze...@entrust.com<mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com> [cid:image001.png@01D94C8B.25868BC0] From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Yes, that is what we concluded. In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. Mike Sherman PSC LLC On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Hello Group, I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK? Thanks Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4ylzHGkb$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49ElTJeW$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https:
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
We’ve been combining both onto one document. It sometimes makes the document go to a second page because of the extra information. We include Australia and anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well. Haven’t had it rejected by anyone yet. Dan From: Andres Waszczenko [mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC Hello Peter, I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought. Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are different between the UKCA and the EU. Regards, Andres Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard 1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 <mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com> andres.waszcze...@entrust.com From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. _ Yes, that is what we concluded. In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. Mike Sherman PSC LLC On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org <mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Hello Group, I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK? Thanks Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4ylzHGkb$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49ElTJeW$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49RAjEUA$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4100QL-v$> =1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCq
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
Hello Peter, I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought. Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are different between the UKCA and the EU. Regards, Andres Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard 1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 andres.waszcze...@entrust.com<mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com> [cid:image001.png@01D94C4A.240F8CB0] From: MIKE SHERMAN Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Yes, that is what we concluded. In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. Mike Sherman PSC LLC On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Hello Group, I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK? Thanks Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4ylzHGkb$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49ElTJeW$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49RAjEUA$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4100QL-v$> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4ylzHGkb$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49ElTJeW$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49RAjEUA$> For help, send mail to
