Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
It's not aEuropean committee, it's an IEC committee, and that's 85 countries, see http://www.iec.ch/dyn/www/f?p=103:5:0##ref=menu When it comes to safety, almost every country that has a functioning national standards body wants to take part in the IEC work. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-10 19:36, Bender, Curtis wrote: I hear what you guys are saying but I would recommend a MUCH smaller group meeting than 122 members (which seems excessive for the 29 P-member countries) to a standard newbie! Maybe a National committee or Industry committee meeting first. Although you “can” learn from listening to 12 or 122 committee members present their arguments, the 1 on 1 discussions over dinner, breaks and social events are a little more helpful. And thus builds those relationships that can answer future questions. If I recall from Mr. O’Connell’s Klingon Space Engineering Academy syllabus he shared, networking is one of the prerequisites. Curt /The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer./ __ Curtis Bender | curtis.ben...@tennantco.com <mailto:curtis.ben...@tennantco.com> *From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] *Sent:* Friday, May 04, 2018 5:16 PM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. I wrote the bit in italics. I suppose it's even more difficult to get a hearing if you are not a member of the committee, however respected you are. If I want to contribute to a committee that i am not a member of, I try to get a member of the committee to adopt it. If I can't, it probably wouldn't be accepted anyway. You can also try writing privately to the chair. With so many members, it's really impossible to have technical discussions; even a 12 member group has difficulty. Five members, OK, you can be technical. A very large group has to be run rigidly, otherwise it would never hope to finish its agenda. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 21:35, Richard Nute wrote: /In general, you are right, but IEC TC108 and its Hazard-Based Standard Development Team, responsible for IEC 62368-1 is a special case. It has 122 members at present, so it's quite difficult to get a hearing in meetings; if every member had 5 minutes, the meeting would last nearly 11 hours, and even over two days, that's exhausting. It is much better to contribute by correspondence (email)./ I’ve had no success at contributing by e-mail. If you are not at the meeting to defend your view, your proposal is given very little time at the meeting and has a very good chance of being rejected or ignored. (And, you get no feedback on your comment or proposal until the minutes are published; even then, you only get that it was accepted or not.) At TC108/HBSDT meetings, only comments from national committees are considered. Usually, only members of the national committee can present their proposal. Occasionally, a proposal from a committee member or other source may be discussed if the TC108 leadership considers the proposal to be germane. On the other hand, the TC108 leadership goes through each of the comments and proposals and suggests acceptance or not, and suggests which of the comments are worth discussion at the full committee level. Most members are simply listening and learning and voting, not contributing. Only a handful of members contribute to the discussions. While there are lots of folks in the room, the meeting proceeds according to the agenda and in the planned time. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For po
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
I hear what you guys are saying but I would recommend a MUCH smaller group meeting than 122 members (which seems excessive for the 29 P-member countries) to a standard newbie! Maybe a National committee or Industry committee meeting first. Although you "can" learn from listening to 12 or 122 committee members present their arguments, the 1 on 1 discussions over dinner, breaks and social events are a little more helpful. And thus builds those relationships that can answer future questions. If I recall from Mr. O'Connell's Klingon Space Engineering Academy syllabus he shared, networking is one of the prerequisites. Curt The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. __ Curtis Bender | curtis.ben...@tennantco.com<mailto:curtis.ben...@tennantco.com> From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 5:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. I wrote the bit in italics. I suppose it's even more difficult to get a hearing if you are not a member of the committee, however respected you are. If I want to contribute to a committee that i am not a member of, I try to get a member of the committee to adopt it. If I can't, it probably wouldn't be accepted anyway. You can also try writing privately to the chair. With so many members, it's really impossible to have technical discussions; even a 12 member group has difficulty. Five members, OK, you can be technical. A very large group has to be run rigidly, otherwise it would never hope to finish its agenda. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 21:35, Richard Nute wrote: In general, you are right, but IEC TC108 and its Hazard-Based Standard Development Team, responsible for IEC 62368-1 is a special case. It has 122 members at present, so it's quite difficult to get a hearing in meetings; if every member had 5 minutes, the meeting would last nearly 11 hours, and even over two days, that's exhausting. It is much better to contribute by correspondence (email). I've had no success at contributing by e-mail. If you are not at the meeting to defend your view, your proposal is given very little time at the meeting and has a very good chance of being rejected or ignored. (And, you get no feedback on your comment or proposal until the minutes are published; even then, you only get that it was accepted or not.) At TC108/HBSDT meetings, only comments from national committees are considered. Usually, only members of the national committee can present their proposal. Occasionally, a proposal from a committee member or other source may be discussed if the TC108 leadership considers the proposal to be germane. On the other hand, the TC108 leadership goes through each of the comments and proposals and suggests acceptance or not, and suggests which of the comments are worth discussion at the full committee level. Most members are simply listening and learning and voting, not contributing. Only a handful of members contribute to the discussions. While there are lots of folks in the room, the meeting proceeds according to the agenda and in the planned time. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), larg
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
I wrote the bit in italics. I suppose it's even more difficult to get a hearing if you are not a member of the committee, however respected you are. If I want to contribute to a committee that i am not a member of, I try to get a member of the committee to adopt it. If I can't, it probably wouldn't be accepted anyway. You can also try writing privately to the chair. With so many members, it's really impossible to have technical discussions; even a 12 member group has difficulty. Five members, OK, you can be technical. A very large group has to be run rigidly, otherwise it would never hope to finish its agenda. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 21:35, Richard Nute wrote: /In general, you are right, but IEC TC108 and its Hazard-Based Standard Development Team, responsible for IEC 62368-1 is a special case. It has 122 members at present, so it's quite difficult to get a hearing in meetings; if every member had 5 minutes, the meeting would last nearly 11 hours, and even over two days, that's exhausting. It is much better to contribute by correspondence (email)./ I’ve had no success at contributing by e-mail. If you are not at the meeting to defend your view, your proposal is given very little time at the meeting and has a very good chance of being rejected or ignored. (And, you get no feedback on your comment or proposal until the minutes are published; even then, you only get that it was accepted or not.) At TC108/HBSDT meetings, only comments from national committees are considered. Usually, only members of the national committee can present their proposal. Occasionally, a proposal from a committee member or other source may be discussed if the TC108 leadership considers the proposal to be germane. On the other hand, the TC108 leadership goes through each of the comments and proposals and suggests acceptance or not, and suggests which of the comments are worth discussion at the full committee level. Most members are simply listening and learning and voting, not contributing. Only a handful of members contribute to the discussions. While there are lots of folks in the room, the meeting proceeds according to the agenda and in the planned time. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Many NRTLs have frequent webinars on Type Tests, and many, in the past, had offered formal classroom training. Recently, have only seen UL and Intertek provide this. In my experience NRTL-centric training tends to be agendized (is that a word?), and designed to teach you how to use a particular NRTL's submittal process. Some NRTLs/SCCs do not want to do this, as it is could affect their bottom line. And the North American corporation is increasingly reticent to fund any formal training and certification for engineers, as few companies see any need for employee development, and see this as a significant cost in time and monies. Some decent training would be 1. at the side of an experienced and cranky old compliance engineer 2. from reading test agency lab requirements 3. from reading a recent CB report 4. from watching an experienced agency engineer perform Type Tests at your company lab. The Klingon Space Engineering Academy offers compliance engineering training, but few survive the syllabus. Brian From: Kevin J Harris [mailto:kevin.3.har...@jci.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:00 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
In general, you are right, but IEC TC108 and its Hazard-Based Standard Development Team, responsible for IEC 62368-1 is a special case. It has 122 members at present, so it's quite difficult to get a hearing in meetings; if every member had 5 minutes, the meeting would last nearly 11 hours, and even over two days, that's exhausting. It is much better to contribute by correspondence (email). I've had no success at contributing by e-mail. If you are not at the meeting to defend your view, your proposal is given very little time at the meeting and has a very good chance of being rejected or ignored. (And, you get no feedback on your comment or proposal until the minutes are published; even then, you only get that it was accepted or not.) At TC108/HBSDT meetings, only comments from national committees are considered. Usually, only members of the national committee can present their proposal. Occasionally, a proposal from a committee member or other source may be discussed if the TC108 leadership considers the proposal to be germane. On the other hand, the TC108 leadership goes through each of the comments and proposals and suggests acceptance or not, and suggests which of the comments are worth discussion at the full committee level. Most members are simply listening and learning and voting, not contributing. Only a handful of members contribute to the discussions. While there are lots of folks in the room, the meeting proceeds according to the agenda and in the planned time. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
In general, you are right, but IEC TC108 and its Hazard-Based Standard Development Team, responsible for IEC 62368-1 is a special case. It has 122 members at present, so it's quite difficult to get a hearing in meetings; if every member had 5 minutes, the meeting would last nearly 11 hours, and even over two days, that's exhausting. It is much better to contribute by correspondence (email). John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 19:56, Bender, Curtis wrote: A good training method is to join a standards committee. First, it forces reading of the standard which is the first step that many fail at. Also, the meal conversations at standards meetings have been a huge contributor to my personal knowledge base. This is part of the reason I'm attending the Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) annual Symposium this month that John recommended. It's a fantastic method to network and learn. Curt The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. __ Curtis Bender | curtis.ben...@tennantco.com -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 2:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. The annual PSES and EMC symposiums are the premier venues for compliance engineering. That said, the PSES symposium sessions only talk about stuff. After the prerequisite work of setting up and qualifying a test lab separate from the design center, one must know and have experience with Type Testing that may have edge cases adrift in a sea of if/then/else/else/... engineering decisions. Type Tests for power conversion and ATEX stuff are essentially big bags of edge cases. The training requirement is nothing less than watching and participating in actual Type Tests that would apply to your category and class of equipment after classroom discussions covering the physics of test standard requirements. Brian From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hi Kevin, The Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) is having our annual Symposium this month. Many Product Safety and Certification subjects are on the program. Including a 62368-1 Open forum with the guys that created it, implemented it and use it daily!! Here's the link - http://www.psessymposium.org/pages/62368-1-open-forum John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188 www.productsafetyinc.com President - IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html From: Kevin J Harris Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrule
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
A good training method is to join a standards committee. First, it forces reading of the standard which is the first step that many fail at. Also, the meal conversations at standards meetings have been a huge contributor to my personal knowledge base. This is part of the reason I'm attending the Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) annual Symposium this month that John recommended. It's a fantastic method to network and learn. Curt The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. __ Curtis Bender | curtis.ben...@tennantco.com -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 2:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. The annual PSES and EMC symposiums are the premier venues for compliance engineering. That said, the PSES symposium sessions only talk about stuff. After the prerequisite work of setting up and qualifying a test lab separate from the design center, one must know and have experience with Type Testing that may have edge cases adrift in a sea of if/then/else/else/... engineering decisions. Type Tests for power conversion and ATEX stuff are essentially big bags of edge cases. The training requirement is nothing less than watching and participating in actual Type Tests that would apply to your category and class of equipment after classroom discussions covering the physics of test standard requirements. Brian From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hi Kevin, The Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) is having our annual Symposium this month. Many Product Safety and Certification subjects are on the program. Including a 62368-1 Open forum with the guys that created it, implemented it and use it daily!! Here's the link - http://www.psessymposium.org/pages/62368-1-open-forum John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188 www.productsafetyinc.com President - IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html From: Kevin J Harris Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
I agree: even learning the standard by heart would leave one up a gum tree in a test lab. It's a totally different experience, starting with the visual examination (with Sherlock's lens). That usually results in a long list of potential violations to follow up before you even get to the advanced tests. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 19:24, Brian O'Connell wrote: The annual PSES and EMC symposiums are the premier venues for compliance engineering. That said, the PSES symposium sessions only talk about stuff. After the prerequisite work of setting up and qualifying a test lab separate from the design center, one must know and have experience with Type Testing that may have edge cases adrift in a sea of if/then/else/else/... engineering decisions. Type Tests for power conversion and ATEX stuff are essentially big bags of edge cases. The training requirement is nothing less than watching and participating in actual Type Tests that would apply to your category and class of equipment after classroom discussions covering the physics of test standard requirements. Brian From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hi Kevin, The Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) is having our annual Symposium this month. Many Product Safety and Certification subjects are on the program. Including a 62368-1 Open forum with the guys that created it, implemented it and use it daily!! Here's the link - http://www.psessymposium.org/pages/62368-1-open-forum John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188 www.productsafetyinc.com President - IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html From: Kevin J Harris Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
There are references to '62368-1', but there are at least three species in this genus - IEC, UL and EN. They are different enough for the differences to be dangerous if not known, or if ignored. Also, Edition 3 of the underlying IEC species is at the FDIS stage (final voting in June 2018) and is forecast to be published in August 2018. Once again, the differences from Ed. 2 are significant. The list in the Foreword of the CDV is: This edition includes the following significant technical changes with respect to the previous edition: – addition of requirements for outdoor equipment; – new requirements for optical radiation; – addition of requirements for insulating liquids; – addition of requirements for work cells; – addition of requirements for wireless power transmitters; – addition of requirements for Fully Insulated Wire (FIW); – alternative method for determination of top, bottom and side openings for fire enclosures; – alternative requirements for sound pressure. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 18:53, Charlie Blackham wrote: Kevin UL run a two day course on 62368-1 https://lms.ulknowledgeservices.com/catalog/display.resource.aspx?resourceid=474958 I’ve not done one of the courses in the USA, but attended a 2-day 62368-1 course at UL(UK) a couple of years ago and found it useful and far more detailed than you would get in a 1-2 hour presentation at a seminar. Not only because there’s obviously more time to go through stuff in 2 days but a class-room environment was really conducive to discussion between the attendees, all of whom had a good knowledge of 60950-1 as a starting point (though I may have just been lucky with that) Regards Charlie *Charlie Blackham* *Sulis Consultants Ltd* *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317* *Web: **www.sulisconsultants.com* <https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 *From:*Kevin J Harris *Sent:* 04 May 2018 18:00 *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.i
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Kevin UL run a two day course on 62368-1 https://lms.ulknowledgeservices.com/catalog/display.resource.aspx?resourceid=474958 I've not done one of the courses in the USA, but attended a 2-day 62368-1 course at UL(UK) a couple of years ago and found it useful and far more detailed than you would get in a 1-2 hour presentation at a seminar. Not only because there's obviously more time to go through stuff in 2 days but a class-room environment was really conducive to discussion between the attendees, all of whom had a good knowledge of 60950-1 as a starting point (though I may have just been lucky with that) Regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: www.sulisconsultants.com<https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Kevin J Harris Sent: 04 May 2018 18:00 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
The annual PSES and EMC symposiums are the premier venues for compliance engineering. That said, the PSES symposium sessions only talk about stuff. After the prerequisite work of setting up and qualifying a test lab separate from the design center, one must know and have experience with Type Testing that may have edge cases adrift in a sea of if/then/else/else/... engineering decisions. Type Tests for power conversion and ATEX stuff are essentially big bags of edge cases. The training requirement is nothing less than watching and participating in actual Type Tests that would apply to your category and class of equipment after classroom discussions covering the physics of test standard requirements. Brian From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 10:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hi Kevin, The Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) is having our annual Symposium this month. Many Product Safety and Certification subjects are on the program. Including a 62368-1 Open forum with the guys that created it, implemented it and use it daily!! Here's the link - http://www.psessymposium.org/pages/62368-1-open-forum John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188 www.productsafetyinc.com President - IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html From: Kevin J Harris Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Hi Kevin, The Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES) is having our annual Symposium this month. Many Product Safety and Certification subjects are on the program. Including a 62368-1 Open forum with the guys that created it, implemented it and use it daily!! Here's the link - http://www.psessymposium.org/pages/62368-1-open-forum John Allen | President | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188 www.productsafetyinc.com<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> <http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> President - IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. This message is confidential and intended only for the individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or addressee, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying, in whole or part, of this message is strictly prohibited. If you believe that you have been sent this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. From: Kevin J Harris Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Hi Kevin, I attended a useful course at UL (I think they called it UL university). It was centered around the standard we use. Best regards John Harrington EMC and Safety Compliance Manager T/ 440.498.2727 tek.com<http://tek.com> From: Kevin J Harris [mailto:kevin.3.har...@jci.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 1:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [Commercial] [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training. Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DwMFAg&c=YEQWdgm3lcu5w_Y3fWOQZUGtAhl_lImuPlnxuD4zIqo&r=iz7lp0OqttYzPnqxJDJN0trcuhGHAoPYvYcyoF8kL3Q&m=_7jFysQBJv5n4elrH-yG9O36iAOHjcSvf1h4XO38xkM&s=Xefc-QAuVZbagJVSEj9EIPapthftNz9QgNC5yYxWdTM&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DwMFAg&c=YEQWdgm3lcu5w_Y3fWOQZUGtAhl_lImuPlnxuD4zIqo&r=iz7lp0OqttYzPnqxJDJN0trcuhGHAoPYvYcyoF8kL3Q&m=_7jFysQBJv5n4elrH-yG9O36iAOHjcSvf1h4XO38xkM&s=8yVxD6drwzWHMHtuab7v6qeHpQebc4PuVAkfNjAjpl4&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DwMFAg&c=YEQWdgm3lcu5w_Y3fWOQZUGtAhl_lImuPlnxuD4zIqo&r=iz7lp0OqttYzPnqxJDJN0trcuhGHAoPYvYcyoF8kL3Q&m=_7jFysQBJv5n4elrH-yG9O36iAOHjcSvf1h4XO38xkM&s=d-BOHTlv4zzRylaQG_7T_2UFWwOSdDHfCjbIoNSJ-JQ&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DwMFAg&c=YEQWdgm3lcu5w_Y3fWOQZUGtAhl_lImuPlnxuD4zIqo&r=iz7lp0OqttYzPnqxJDJN0trcuhGHAoPYvYcyoF8kL3Q&m=_7jFysQBJv5n4elrH-yG9O36iAOHjcSvf1h4XO38xkM&s=hulCOWnn06Mm2644GaJJFxdtW1v1dHmyTDI6LBrx7y0&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DwMFAg&c=YEQWdgm3lcu5w_Y3fWOQZUGtAhl_lImuPlnxuD4zIqo&r=iz7lp0OqttYzPnqxJDJN0trcuhGHAoPYvYcyoF8kL3Q&m=_7jFysQBJv5n4elrH-yG9O36iAOHjcSvf1h4XO38xkM&s=oVN84FcIOfChX7SN7EFREcvYNB-MtR8KGxmJMwIo3RM&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Let us know if you find any. The last time I looked, I didn't find. Not like EMC training, which is widely available. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-05-04 18:00, Kevin J Harris wrote: Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Product Safety Testing and Evaluation training.
Hello I am looking recommendations for companies (preferably in North America) that can provide training in product safety testing and evaluation to engineers who are beginning their career. Ideally the training would concentrate on IEC 62368-1 Kind regards Kevin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
