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I’m trying to work out a solution to a problem with a medical device. I can limit the power to 15w for components that are mounted on the topside of a PCB, and underneath an elastic part that is rated 94HB, except for a few locations that don’t have the required thickness to meet the UL flame rating. I was anticipating that the 15Watt 900j area of the enclosure would then have to be a minimum 94HB, but I ran across this deviation in UL60601-1 2nd edition Does the IEC or national difference version have a similar clause? (Yes I know I just said it was a deviation and that might be a big clue but…..) This would imply that cellulose nitrate and be acceptable. From UL 60601-1 2nd states 55dv.4.2 Flammability tests are not required for enclosures housing only circuits supplied from a source, which is separated from the supply mains, by one of the methods described in 17g), and where available power does not exceed 15W I don’t’ know what the country deviations etc say for the EN60601-1 2nd edition standard says but I’m hoping it’s the same situation – and this is really the crux of my question. 3rd edition of the standard seems to back up the no stated flame requirement in the following paragraphs En60601-1 Third edition states 13.1.2 * Emissions, deformation of the Enclosure or exceeding maximum temperature The following Hazardous situations shall not occur: - Emission of flames, molten metal, …. And The single fault conditions in 4.7.8.1 b0, 8.72 and 13.22, with regard to the emission of flames, molten metal ……. Shall NOT be applied to parts and components where: The construction or the supply circuit limits the power dissipation in single fault conditions to less than 15 W or the energy dissipation to less than 900 J So bottom line seems to be that the flammability of the enclosure if power is limited isn’t truly controlled? I must be missing something. Help please Gary McInturff Gary McInturff - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
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http://arifekalender.com/google.php - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
[no subject]
Ryan Jazz JayasingheCompliance Engineer x1198 Canoga PerkinsDirect:(818) 678-3898 20600 Prairie Street Company:(818) 718-6300 Chatsworth, CA 91311-6008 e-mail: rjayasin...@canoga.com www.canoga.comFAX:(818) 678-3798 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com ---BeginMessage--- This attachment, originally named Message Text, was removed because it is zero length. ---End Message---
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If a product is shipped from a U.S. manufacturer for use on a U.S. military base in Germany, do the German/CE regulatory requirements apply...EMC, Safety, RoHS, etc? The product is a commercial non-military product. Thanks. Jim Hulbert Pitney Bowes - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://emc-pstc.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
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All, The Northeast Product Safety Society invites you to the 16th annual Vendor’s Night to be held at the Boxborough Holiday Inn on Wednesday evening, November 17th from 5:00 to 9:30 PM. Vendor's Night is opportunity to get answers to all your product safety/EMC questions in one evening. There will be up to 50 companies exhibiting. Exhibitors are from certification agencies, qualified testing laboratories, independent consultants and suppliers of services, test equipment and components. If you will be in the area, feel free to join us. Walk-in registration is welcomed. There is no fee to attend. The Vendor’s Night registration opens at 4:30 PM and the Exhibition will be open from 5:00 PM to 9:30 PM. Appetizers will be available from 5:30 to 6:30 PM and a buffet style dinner will be served during the exhibition from 7:30 PM to 9:00 PM. A Vendor’s Night announcement flyer is available at http://www.nepss.net/16thNPSSFlyer.doc http://www.nepss.net/16thNPSSFlyer.doc and a Vendor’s Night exhibitor registration form is available at http://www.nepss.net/16thNPSSRegForm.doc http://www.nepss.net/16thNPSSRegForm.doc on the NPSS web site but we ask you to complete your reservations before Nov 15th. There are still a few tables available for any vendor that would like to participate in the 15th Annual Vendor’s Night. Please feel free to contact Bill Graham at b...@grahamweb.com mailto:b...@grahamweb.com , Dave Wheeler at inter...@aol.com mailto:inter...@aol.com or myself for more information about Vendor’s Night. There is no charge for admission to the exhibits with complimentary buffet dinner. So that we may plan the dinner, we ask you to make a dinner notice reservation with Donna Kearney at 978-870-5563 (email to dkearn...@hotmail.com mailto:dkearn...@hotmail.com ) or Matthew Campanella at 508-786-7629 (email to matthew.campane...@motorola.com mailto:matthew.campane...@motorola.com ). In addition to the world class products and varied local services on display this year there will be a prize drawing for those attending. This Prize drawing is restricted to visitors to the show. In addition various companies will have handouts including Tee Shirts and Coffee Mugs. Please join us at the Holiday Inn on the 17th and network with your many friends and colleagues in the Product Safety and EMC communities in New England, enjoy an evening of good food and perhaps not only come away with a little more product or service information but maybe a little more cash in your pocket. Further information about the Northeast Product Safety Society is available at http://www.nepss.net http://www.nepss.net/ . An NPSS membership application form with brief NPSS brochure is also available on the NPSS site at http://www.nepss.net/page18.html http://www.nepss.net/page18.html . The 16th Annual Vendor’s Night location is: Boxborough Holiday Inn 242 Adams Place Boxborough, MA 01719 (978) 263-8701 Web directions are available at http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/hi/1/en/hotel/boxma/transportation http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/hi/1/en/hotel/boxma/transportation Directions: From Route 495 North or South, take Exit 28 to Route 111 East Turn right onto Adams Place (approximately 500 feet from Route 495 North) The Holiday Inn is the last building on the left. Matt Campanella NPSS Secretary (508) 786-7500 matthew.campane...@motorola.com email - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://emc-pstc.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
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Query EMC-PSTC - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [PSES] [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv
Not only do I argue with myself I often lose the argument... I think, no no I was right the first time.. Gary McInturff 208 635 8306 From: Price, Edward [mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce- test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:47 AM To: Dan Roman; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv Well, that's a complex way to do something simple ;)) Now if I send [answer] to the list server followed by a Question, will it answer my question ? That would be innovative ! Gert It would more likely question your answer. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv
Related to one of my favorite T-shirts: I flunked the Turing Test Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Price, Edward Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce- test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:47 AM To: Dan Roman; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv Well, that's a complex way to do something simple ;)) Now if I send [answer] to the list server followed by a Question, will it answer my question ? That would be innovative ! Gert It would more likely question your answer. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv
-Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ce- test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:47 AM To: Dan Roman; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EMC-PSTC] RE: Subject headers from the listserv Well, that's a complex way to do something simple ;)) Now if I send [answer] to the list server followed by a Question, will it answer my question ? That would be innovative ! Gert It would more likely question your answer. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Subject headers from the listserv
EMC-PSTC list readers, I just wanted to pass along a quick informational message about the listserv. For those that desire it, you can have the listserv embed a prefix to the subject line to make it easier to identify messages coming from this email list. Some of you may already have this feature turned on as I believe it is now the default for new subscribers. With the prefix turned on, your subject line will have a [PSES] prefix. To turn the prefix on, email the following line in the body of your email to lists...@ieee.org: SET EMC-PSTC SUBJecthdr For best results send a plain text email and, if possible, make the command the only text in your email. The subject line is ignored and can be left blank. Email me off-list directly if you have any questions. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. Communications Vice President IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org Voice: 973-967-6485 Fax: 973-967-6262 http://www.ieee-pses.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
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All Can anyone tell me the difference between the following UL cable style numbers? AWM Cable: UL Style Number 1015 AWM Cable: UL Style Number 1430 And is there a definitive list of the UL styles available anywhere? Ian Gordon --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and are provided solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorized and strictly prohibited and you should please contact the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system. No responsibility is accepted for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments, whether or not it has been checked by anti-virus software. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
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Does anyone know where to find the electrical safety standards for Yemen? Also, does meeting the EEC CE Marking Directives mean the standard CE compliance for electronics in an enclosure? John Cochran jcoch...@strongarm.com mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com Strongarm Designs 425 Caredean Drive Horsham, PA 19044 PHONE: 215-443-3400 X193 FAX: 215-443-3002 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
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All Is there a legal requirement to provide a paper copy of product instructions rather than supply these on CD? Ian Gordon The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and are provided solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorised and strictly prohibited and you should please contact the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system. No responsibility is accepted for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments, whether or not it has been checked by anti-virus software. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
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Hi Group Does anyone have any recommendations for environmental test standards (vibration,, shock, temp, humidity etc) for sensitive test and measurement equipment that will be transported around a lot. We normally use MIL-PRF-28800F but my manager has decided that this isn’t severe enough and has sent me off to look for something else. The only other standard I have familiarity with is NEBS GR-63 and I don’t think he would want to go that far! Thanks John Harrington Compliance Engineer Keithley Instruments, Inc. jharring...@keithley.com Tel: 440 498 2727 _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
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Hi John et al, Well the switch-on/switch off effects are wideband, but are time domain limited (transients), and do not have a great impact on network transmission capacities. My point is that the lack of available license free frequencies have lead to excessive use of this small band (2400-2485 MHz) not taking into account the interference properties of the original application for microwaves. (That is why ITU reserved this slot in the first place as ISM). The small bandwidth has also lead to the problem of useable channel allocations for wireless lan ( 1,6,11 of ther available 1-14) and the limited number of on-the-air networks in one areas to be only 3. At my daughters study place, a room in a popular neighbourhood in Utrecht a network scan learns me that there are 17 wireless LANS in the (close) neighbourhood. (most allocated to channel 11) I would not be surprised to find 17 microwave ovens also. No wonder that she has frequent internet connection problems. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing bv - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
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Dear members, I have a question on the use of a 3 meter fully anechoic chamber. Can this 3 meter chamber be used to qualify a product for FCC or CISPR class A, since the required test distance is 10 meter? Please provide any reference to paragraphs in the standards. Your responses are appreciated. Thanks, Timothy A. Pierce Tap Engineering, Inc. Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today http://www.fanhouse.com fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr000520 . - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
All Am I correct in saying that the FCC do not require any RF immunity testing? Ian Gordon The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and are provided solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorised and strictly prohibited and you should please contact the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system. No responsibility is accepted for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments, whether or not it has been checked by anti-virus software. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
Further to the interpretation of the O and | symbols: http://ask.metafilter.com/28272/the-circle-line Be sure to explore the links in the page. Note that most people have no idea what the O and | symbols mean or even that the symbols are from standards. Other related articles: http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/Index.cfm?Ad=1ArticleID=31710 http://www.energy.ca.gov/reports/2003-10-31_500-03-012F_APP.PDF In this last reference, IEC symbols are given, but the applications (uses) are not those given by the IEC. Such published divergences create confusion as to the use and intent of the symbols as demonstrated in the first URL. Standards committees spend hours debating symbols and fine-tuning their definitions. Then, designers use their own interpretations. Users have difficulty interpreting the symbols, but quickly learn through use of the equipment. Consider these power state modes: On Off Standby Hibernate Sleep On and off are reasonably clear. How are the other modes differentiated? Who (user) cares? Why do we need any differentiation (from a functional point of view)? Enjoy! Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
[no subject]
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sorry, I failed to sent the attached to EMC-PSTC Tim Haynes A1S77 Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems 300 Capability Green Luton LU1 3PG ( Tel : +44 (0)1582 886239 7 Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863 ) Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310 * E-mail : tim.hay...@selex-sas.com P Please consider the environment before printing this email. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems Limited Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England Wales. Company no. 02426132 This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ---BeginMessage--- Let us conjecture the sources of the interference - then we might work out what the method of measurement might be... Don't forget that the spec-an has a front-end noise figure about 30dB above the ham receiver - so it is about 30dB less sensitive when using the same bandwidth! A repetitive pulse in time domain. You say 1Hz rep-rate. This would produce a frequency comb with 1Hz spacing. The energy of the pulse is spread across the full spectrum (and this is related to the rise time of the pulse). Detection would require the largest bandwidth available on the spec an. Sweep time would need to be longer than 1second. If detected you would see a spike at some frequency (or time if using 0Hz span). With a longer sweep, you should see more spikes - one for each second of sweep time. In a frequency domain sweep, there will be amplitude variations introduced by the composite of all transfer functions (radiator characteristics, composite path reflections, etc.). If detected AND is in fact a pulse, the amplitude should vary with bandwidth on a 20log(BW). If it is a swept signal, then any form of receiver, not designed to detect the specific transmission, will have difficulties in measuring the signal. If we consider the spectrum analyser, there is a maximum rate at which it is possible to sweep and get a calibrated result. This is usually given (for an analogue analyser) as sweep-time=(Span)/(BW squared). This is to allow the detector to charge up to the full value before the sweep has moved off-frequency. With a swept frequency, and a static receiver, the detector will only charge up to maximum value if the frequency stays within the band width for a sufficient time. The bigger the band width, the greater the chance of charging the detector but there will be a higher noise floor. With swept frequencies, it is possible that the sweep frequency moves in the opposite direction to the spectrum analyser. If it moves in the same direction, you might get some strange results if the analyser sweep speed is nearly in synch with the swept frequency. Another potential source is splatter from an over modulated transmitter - to fit the description it is unlikely to be a broadcast (speech, music) and more likely related to telemetry or other data system. In some parts of the world, UHF radar might be a possible source of interference, but I am having trouble relating 1Hz to anything I know about in this respect. Can anyone else conjecture other sources and the measurement techniques needed to capture them? Mitigation It is possible that a software change to your system could mitigate the effects of the interference. I don't know your system in particular but this might help you find a solution... If I were transmitting my data in a frame of 1 second or more in length, I
[no subject]
I pulled the following tables from a document that regurgitates the ICNIRP limits. It clearly gives limb currents and, by default, I assume that the other limits must be for other parts of the body. Since these are contact currents - the current flows through the body - which is what I think you asked about. I may not be correct so check it out. If you are working in something that would exceed these limits, than I think that you are in uncharted territory for me. To consider exceeding these limits, you would need to quantify both benefits (of the process to the individual) and the risk (of harmful side effects). I would then expect that a significant benefit would need to be shown before the product could be marketed effectively. Take radiotherapy for example. The radiation dose far exceeds that which is permitted under normal circumstances BUT a person dying from cancer might derive significant benefit compared with the risk. This is the same for MRI scanners. For a truly beneficial medical device I suppose there is no limit (beneficial restricts the degree of harm that is acceptable) but for an aesthetic device - I am not so sure that the limits below can be exceeded. Own views only. Regards Tim Exposure Characteristics Frequency Range Maximum Contact Current (mA) Public / Occupational exposure Up to 2.5kHz Public 0.5 Occupational 1.0 2.5kHz to 100kHz Public 0.2/f Occupational 0.4/f 100kHz to 110MHz Public 20 Occupational 40 Exposure Characteristics Frequency Range Reference levels for limb Current (mA) Occupational 100kHz to 110MHz 100 Public 100kHz to 110MHz 45 __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: On the Subject of Telephones
As I recall from the days of my youth in the Military, we had a simple system that allowed us to have three phones on two wires. Each end had a center-tapped transformer with the center tap being connected to Earth ground. The three conversations were carried line 1 - line 2, line 1 - Ground, line 2 - ground. The two extra circuits were call Phantom circuits as there was only one (copper) line associated with that circuit. So it would be possible to get a shock if you were connected to a faulty ground connection when someone cranked a field phone connected to the other end. This is similar to circuits used many years ago, and may still, in rural areas that required many mile of copper. Just a thought. John Shinn From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: On the Subject of Telephones In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01859...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes This has been circulating on the internet for nearly 10 years (that I'm aware of). I recall seeing it mentioned on Snopes as an urban myth, but that could be wrong (that site is blocked at work as 'entertainment,' so I can't confirm that at the moment). When I first saw the story, it mentioned the UK being the poor mutt's environs. Normal UK telephones don't need a ground connection to ring. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield _ CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: On the Subject of Telephones
In message be3336be85968d49be01e66d6e365b1e01859...@sjc1amfpew01.am.sanm.corp, dated Fri, 19 Jan 2007, Tarver, Peter peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com writes This has been circulating on the internet for nearly 10 years (that I'm aware of). I recall seeing it mentioned on Snopes as an urban myth, but that could be wrong (that site is blocked at work as 'entertainment,' so I can't confirm that at the moment). When I first saw the story, it mentioned the UK being the poor mutt's environs. Normal UK telephones don't need a ground connection to ring. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: On the Subject of Telephones
This has been circulating on the internet for nearly 10 years (that I'm aware of). I recall seeing it mentioned on Snopes as an urban myth, but that could be wrong (that site is blocked at work as 'entertainment,' so I can't confirm that at the moment). When I first saw the story, it mentioned the UK being the poor mutt's environs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org From: Scott Douglas Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:34 PM From the Could This Really Happen department. Received from a friend and sent to the list by Scott Douglas. snip The dog was tied to the telephone system's ground wire via a steel chain and collar. The wire connection to the ground rod was loose. The dog was receiving 90 volts of signaling current when the number was called. After a couple of jolts, the dog would start moaning and then urinate. The wet ground would complete the circuit, thus causing the phone to ring. All of which demonstrates that some problems CAN be solved by p***ing and moaning. CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail message and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any prints thereof. ABSENT AN EXPRESS STATEMENT TO THE CONTRARY HEREINABOVE, THIS E-MAIL IS NOT INTENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR A WRITING. Notwithstanding the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the applicability of any other law of similar substance and effect, absent an express statement to the contrary hereinabove, this e-mail message its contents, and any attachments hereto are not intended to represent an offer or acceptance to enter into a contract and are not otherwise intended to bind the sender, Sanmina-SCI Corporation (or any of its subsidiaries), or any other person or entity. _ Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield ___ _ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
On the Subject of Telephones
From the Could This Really Happen department. Received from a friend and sent to the list by Scott Douglas. A Queensland, Australia farmer's wife called Telstar to report that her telephone failed to ring when her friends called, and that on a the few occasions when it did ring, her dog always moaned right before the phone rang. The linesman proceeded to the scene, curious to see this psychic dog or the senile lady. He climbed a telephone pole, hooked in his test set, and dialed the subscriber's house. The phone didn't ring right away, but then the dog moaned and the telephone began to ring. Climbing down from the pole, the linesman found: The dog was tied to the telephone system's ground wire via a steel chain and collar. The wire connection to the ground rod was loose. The dog was receiving 90 volts of signaling current when the number was called. After a couple of jolts, the dog would start moaning and then urinate. The wet ground would complete the circuit, thus causing the phone to ring. All of which demonstrates that some problems CAN be solved by p***ing and moaning. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
[no subject]
Here is a Lithium-ion battery failure analysis: www.ewh.ieee.org/r6/scv/pses/ieee_scv_pses_nov051.pdf Richard Nute, CFEI Product Safety Consultant San Diego - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
[no subject]
Dear all, We have a customer request for EMC testing of a high definition switch (5 IN- 1 OUT) which can be connected to a standard DVI or HDMI device. This switch is intended to be employed in either, home theaters, offices or conference rooms. We understand that this type of technology will eventually be placed under CISPR 32, however, that day has not yet arrived. Though it does not fall exactly into either category of the combination: (1) CISPR 13 and CISPR 20 (2) CISPR 22 and CISPR 24 . . .our understanding of the situation for CISPR 32 is that it uses CISPR 22 as a baseline. That would tend to suggest the appropriate migratory path for present day testing would be to option (2), namely CISPR 22 and CISPR 24. Does anyone have any further intelligence, opinion or observation for this question? Your thoughts and reply will be greatly appreciated. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
All Does anyone know where I can find the current issue status of DIN standards? Thanks Ian Gordon *** The information contained in this email and any attachments may be confidential and is provided solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorised and prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments. No responsibility is accepted for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments, whether or not it has been checked by anti-virus software. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
Many thanks to those of you who replied with helpful information. The powers-that-be are re-thinking the situation. Scott Lacey On 19 Mar 2006 at 9:42, Scott Lacey wrote: To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
For the second link once you get to the class page, click lecture notes and then Chapter 17 From: drcuthbert Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:07 PM To: 'Scott Lacey' Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks Scott, Here are some links that may help: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/green01d.pdf www.ccm.udel.edu/Personnel/homepage/class_web/ Lecture%20Notes/2004/AskelandPhuleNotes-CH17Printable.ppt http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/design_calculations/wood_strength.htm You might give a mechanical engineering or a civil engineering professor at your local university a call. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology, Inc. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lacey Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:36 PM To: Scott Lacey Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks Many thanks to those of you who replied with helpful information. The powers-that-be are re-thinking the situation. Scott Lacey On 19 Mar 2006 at 9:42, Scott Lacey wrote: To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
Scott, Here are some links that may help: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/green01d.pdf www.ccm.udel.edu/Personnel/homepage/class_web/ Lecture%20Notes/2004/AskelandPhuleNotes-CH17Printable.ppt http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/design_calculations/wood_strength.htm You might give a mechanical engineering or a civil engineering professor at your local university a call. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology, Inc. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lacey Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:36 PM To: Scott Lacey Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks Many thanks to those of you who replied with helpful information. The powers-that-be are re-thinking the situation. Scott Lacey On 19 Mar 2006 at 9:42, Scott Lacey wrote: To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
I love the submarine example. A true testament to the strength of lignin…nature’s polymer. I seem to remember the original post mentioning that they didn’t like steel because of the chance for slippage of the blocks due to hydraulic fluid. My suggestion would be to use steel supports with wooden support surfaces. Then the wood becomes the anti-skid piece; but doesn’t have to hold the entire load. Personally, I trust wooden blocks with my life all of the time when working on cars, farm machinery , etc… However, you do have to understand the nature of wood. There are certain orientations of grain and defects that could be a recipe for disaster. If you are looking for a reference, one that may help is “Understanding Wood” by Hoadley. I have a copy at home. I know that it provides some strength numbers for various species and orientations of wood. Chris Maxwell Design/Compliance Engineer Anritsu _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Price, Ed Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:22 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks -Original Message- From: ejearnst [ mailto:ejear...@accuray.com] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:10 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks Hi, As an ex-nuclear submariner, one of the neatest things I've seen is a submarine in a dry dock with only a row of blocks down the centerline holding it up. The blocks were made of oak... http://www.arco.navy.mil/build.htm Eric Those scenes are also a testament to the accuracy of the hull construction. Designing the hull is one task, but since a vessel usually needs to be hauled during its usable life (hull cleaning, inspection, systems upgrades, battle damage), the designers other big task is to specify the cradle needed for a dry-dock. I find it interesting that the cradle builders are using flexible steel tape rulers to measure the block positions, so perhaps the tolerance of the blocks is +/- 1/8? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
-Original Message- From: ejearnst [ mailto:ejear...@accuray.com] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:10 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks Hi, As an ex-nuclear submariner, one of the neatest things I've seen is a submarine in a dry dock with only a row of blocks down the centerline holding it up. The blocks were made of oak... http://www.arco.navy.mil/build.htm Eric Those scenes are also a testament to the accuracy of the hull construction. Designing the hull is one task, but since a vessel usually needs to be hauled during its usable life (hull cleaning, inspection, systems upgrades, battle damage), the designers other big task is to specify the cradle needed for a dry-dock. I find it interesting that the cradle builders are using flexible steel tape rulers to measure the block positions, so perhaps the tolerance of the blocks is +/- 1/8? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
Hi, As an ex-nuclear submariner, one of the neatest things I've seen is a submarine in a dry dock with only a row of blocks down the centerline holding it up. The blocks were made of oak... http://www.arco.navy.mil/build.htm http://www.arco.navy.mil/26%20Arco%20Crew%20in%20drydock%20with%20Sub.JP G Eric From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:42 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc WARNING CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in the e-mail may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Access for any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in regard and reliance upon this e-mail by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized and prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
Scott, I have a book titled something like Modern Timber Design (1948) that lists the strength of all types of wood. I will take a look at it tonight and see if there is any good information for you. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology, Inc. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:42 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
In message of3db99e2b.8ff64f1e-on86257136.0056f8c6-86257137.0033d...@apcc.com, dated Mon, 20 Mar 2006, ted.eck...@apcc.com writes As a side note, would automobile jack stands work for your application? They are designed to support heavy weights for long periods, they are load rated, they are designed for oily conditions and they have a cradle on top to provide a good support. Generally, in my experience, the problem is that they need a large flat support surface, which is never present. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
Call your insurance provider and ask them to send out a risk analyst. This person will look at the situation and determine if it is acceptable to use wood or if metal supports are required. Both you and your insurance company should have three goals. First, you want to make sure that nobody is injured. Second, you want to minimize the legal costs if somebody is injured. Third, you want to find the most economical solution to the problem. A good risk analyst can look at your situation and tell you the best solution. The wood may be acceptable for your application. If not, the analyst has probably seen similar situations and probably knows the most economical solution that meets safety requirements. There is a good chance that your insurance company will send out the analyst for free. They want to avoid injuries as much as you do because they have to pay for any injury. Just remember that a single injury could cost ten times as much as a good set of custom supports. As a side note, would automobile jack stands work for your application? They are designed to support heavy weights for long periods, they are load rated, they are designed for oily conditions and they have a cradle on top to provide a good support. As I have little information on the specifics of your application, I can only make general suggestions. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion Corporation The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
From your comments, I picture you as being involved in repairs and installations etc. on large machines (e.g big presses). I've also done a fair amount of this in my time. For this sort of application, wood has a vitally important benefit over metal - it squashes. The deformation means that the block forms to the shape of what it's holding up, and what it's being held up by. As a result, the load is far more stable than it would be on non-deformable steel blocks (or clay bricks). And if you've got oil or hydraulic fluid in the mix as well, the benefit of wood's ability to soak up the micro-layer which will lubricate the steel-steel contact surface adds greatly to the stability of the support. Good quality softwoods may well be better than hardwood alternatives such as oak, unless the loads are going to be very high (i.e. several tens of tons or more). The other advantage of a solid block of compressible material such as wood over a welded steel structure is that it's highly unlikely to suffer a sudden catastrophic failure. Any fabricated structure will be dependent on its geometry for its strength and it's unlikely to be designed so a change in that geometry makes it stronger. In other words, as it deforms, it will get weaker and so it deforms even more and the process snowballs until something breaks. On the other hand, a solid block of a flexible material like wood gets more difficult to compress the more you compress it, so it's not going to suddenly break apart if you 'overload' it (although it may do if you grossly overload it). Just because wooden blocks have only ever been calibrated or tested with a mark one eyeball in the past does not mean that you cannot devise a test procedure with a sound engineering basis if you need to 'prove' what your fitters already know from experience. Finding out the compressive strength of a wooden block isn't difficult. You can get fancy and use a lab full of expensive gear, or you can order a hydraulic car body repair kit from Harbor Freight and a pressure gauge and some fittings from McMaster Carr and make your own testing rig for about $200. Either will give you results which are good enough for this sort of application. The important thing to realise is that you're not going to be looking at the same sort of pass/fail criteria as you would with a fabricated steel structure, where you apply a proof load in excess of the rated load and check that no permanent deformation takes place. Instead, what you are doing is essentially testing the spring rate of the block and using this information to decide how much it will deform when loaded, and hence whether that deformation is acceptable or not. It will require a degree of experience and common sense to define a procedure which works in all cases. I would suggest that the best way to deal with this would be for you to find a way of bringing the attention of the higher management at the financial end of the business that someone in the middle wants to spend a small fortune re-inventing a wheel which has already been rolling successfully for several millenia at a cost of only a few dollars, and without any evidence that the change is likely to result in an increase in safety. What has brought this on? Has there been a failure of a wooden block, or is this a 'risk assessment' led decision? While I'm all for an approach which says that you can't necessarily rely on past experience for future safety, it's also true that properly recorded past history provides objective evidence of failure (or otherwise) whereas risk assessment will always be, to a degree at least, subjective. I'm not saying that using wooden blocks is an idiot proof solution and you shouldn't pay attention to compression strengths, load factors, stability and the potential consequences of failure just as with any operation where significant forces might be let loose, but to claim that wooden blocks are necessarily less safe than expensive fabricated alternatives is just bunkum. In fact, wood has important properties which contribute to safety in these applications and which metal alternatives cannot provide. The basic 'think first, then act' rule of safety always applies, but never more strongly than when dealing with heavy loads. Your management appear to have acted without thinking the problem through properly. Hope this helps Nick. At 9:42 am -0500 19/3/06, Scott Lacey wrote: To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
I seem to recall HUD having a specification for load bearing 2x4s and 2x6s. I have never seen a specification for hardwoods except I know ironwood and mahogany are used for ships shaft bearings. What did the Egyptians use on their pyramids. Seems like they used wooden rollers for 20 ton slabs of limestone. Then the Egyptians didn't have OSHA or they never would have built anything. Would management accept ironwood as a non-rusting metal? Fred Townsend Scott Lacey wrote: To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc -- Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2006 Internet Security: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_45234SPAM=true -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
In message 441d2774.3567.2e4...@scottl.world.std.com, dated Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Scott Lacey sco...@world.std.com writes management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. This is the sort of thing that implies that management should be thrown away and replaced by people with common sense. Wood is used for the purpose because it works, better than other materials in the way you describe, and others. Architects and builders have know for centuries the load-bearing properties of wooden structural members under many different types of loading. A large safety-factor is included in their calculations. Oak isn't necessarily the best wood; there is a great deal of arcane lore about which wood to choose for which service. Talk to someone who still builds horse-drawn carriages. Maybe he'll tell you what he uses pear-tree wood for. Maybe not. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Off Subject - Load Rating of Wood Blocks
To the group: I hope someone can provide insight on this. In a situation where the machinery maintenance people routinely use wood blocks to support parts of machinery while it is being worked on management has ordered all wood to be thrown away and replaced with load-rated substitutes made of welded steel. The maintenance people are concerned that steel will be more unstable than wood due to the lubricating effect of spilled hydraulic fluid. They are also concerned that due to cost there will be only a small supply of the new blocks available. As of now the wood blocks are left in place while waiting for new parts. Sometimes it takes weeks for the parts to come in. Does anyone know of a source for calibrated wood blocks or a process to certify blocks made from a known species such as oak? Thanks Scott B. Lacey - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
who - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
All Does anyone have details of draft standard IEC 61326-2-2 which specifically refers to EMC requirements for measuring and monitoring equipment used in low voltage distribution systems? I am particularly interested in differences between this standard and IEC 61326-2-1 which makes no reference to low voltage distribution systems. Thanks. Ian Gordon *** This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the BOC Group plc or any of its affiliates. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been checked by anti-virus software for the presence of computer viruses. However, the BOC Group plc or any of its affiliates accepts no responsibility for any virus or defect that might arise from opening this e-mail or attachments. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Mcantwellmcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
All
Apparently there is an amendment to IEC 61000-4-6.
http://domino.iec.ch/preview/info_iec61000-4-6{ed2.1}b.pdf.
Does anyone have details of the changes incorporated into this new version?
Ian Gordon
BOC Edwards
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[no subject]
Does anyone know of a similar forum to the emc-pstc which deals with climatic testing? Mike Hurley Mead Testing This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
Being sent on behalf of a colleauge Forum: I have been asked to find out if approvals would have to be secured from Anatel (Brazilian regulatory agency) for a pilot project on an RFID device operating at 303.825 MHz. There is no current plan for sale in the Brazil, as this would be for test purposes only. If there is such a provision, I would need formal documentation that would clarify that this is an acceptable practice in Brazil. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Cyril A. Binnom Jr. EMI/EMC Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. (770) 447-4224 Ext. 3240 (770) 447-6928 Fax binno...@lxe.com Kind Regards, Sam Wismer Technical Director ACS, Inc. *Tel: (770) 831-8048 *Fax: (770) 831-8598 *Web: http://www.acstestlab.com/ www.acstestlab.com *Email: swis...@acstestlab.com mailto:*swis...@acstestlab.com
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After reading section FCC section 15.247, I have the following question. Paragraph (b)(4)(ii) states: (ii) Systems operating in the 5725-5850 MHz band that are used exclusively for fixed, point-to-point operations may employ transmitting antennas with directional gain greater than 6 dBi without any corresponding reduction in transmitter peak output power. Does this mean that their is no limit on the antenna gain or EIRP? Jan Heffken -- CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Square root formula (was no subject)
That is the formula for the geometric sum of 2 RMS quantities. For example, if you have a primary circuit that has a working voltage of 230Vrms and a secondary circuit with a working voltage of 32Vdc, the RMS working voltage BETWEEN the two circuits is determined with the formula, giving you 232Vrms as a figure to use for creepage determination. Measuring the actual RMS voltage is preferred, once you have a sample, but be careful to do a worst-case grounding connection from one circuit to the other or you won't get a meaningful or worst-case voltage measurement. I use the formula early in design, and then measure later. Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are purely accidental. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:boconn...@t-yuden.com] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:50 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Good People What is the basis of this formula for working voltage ? sqroot(a^2 + b^2) thanks, Brian
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Good People What is the basis of this formula for working voltage ? sqroot(a^2 + b^2) thanks, Brian
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Can someone tell me if the emc pstc server is down. I have not seen any discussion from members for at least 2-3 days? Thanks, Gail Birdsall Hach Co.
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Greetings, I am looking for some older FCC documents. Do any of you have copies of these? Memorandum, Opinion and Order, Docket No. 85-301, 3 FCC Rcd 6491 (1988). Memorandum, Opinion, and Order, Docket No. 87-107, 3 FCC Rcd 4222 (1988). Thanks, Mat Mat Aschenberg Agency Engineer EchoStar Technologies Corporation Englewood, Colorado (303) 706-5064
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Does anyone know if there are any RTTE Harmonized Standards for a 5 GHz RLAN product? Thanks, Jan Heffken -- CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Test to see if Microsoft Equation Writer will work thru this email server Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology Test to see if Microsoft Equation Writer will work thru this email server Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology ole0.bmp Description: Binary data ole1.bmp Description: Binary data
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unsubscribe emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
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Ken, a very interesting system. It seems that leaving the amp outputting 1 GHz longer than necessary won't hurt. I believe the unterminated horn will present a reactive load and should not dissipate the chamber energy. If an oscilloscope was connected to another 1 GHz antenna (even a dipole) one could observe the chamber charging and then know how long to gate the signal on. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology The pulse is a modulation waveform. At say 1 GHz the signal source is gated on and off for a duration of 1 us at a 1 kHz rate. The pulse rise/fall-time is limited by the rate of change associated with the microwave frequency. I think understand what you are saying about the transmit antenna, that if you could switch it off the signal source then it wouldn't load the chamber Q. I don't think that is an issue in this case, but it is an interesting idea for a low duty cycle modulation like this. I really don't have a feel for what kind of load an unterminated or shorted horn would present to the field. Do you? From: drcuthb...@micron.com Reply-To: drcuthb...@micron.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:49:12 -0600 To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: pulse modulation in reverb chambers Ken, do you mean you pulse an antenna with a square wave at some specific repetition rate? If so, The pulse rise time and duration can be selected to contain the frequency components you want. I think that if the pulse remains on two long, the generator will act as a 50 ohm load and absorb energy from the chamber. Switching the generator from a 50 ohm state to a high-Z or low-Z state could be beneficial. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
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unsubscribe Ken Charlebois Regulatory Approvals Specialist Alcatel Canada Inc. phone: 613-784-3204 fax: 613-599-3642
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unsubscribe This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
All, I recall that the FCC changed 15.231 (normally used for garage door openers) to allow the transmission of digital data. Does anyone know what the FCC Docket was for this? Thanks, Mike Cantwell, PE, NCE 1232 Rio Grande Dr. Allen, TX 75013 Tel: (214) 547-1666 Cell: (469) 831-8701 AIM: CantwellEMC --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
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I read: Have 350mA LED(s) in series with 1000mF cap from +ve to -ve within full bridge rectifier. So far so good. -ve of bridge to mains N. +ve of bridge goes through a 4.7mF motor start rated capacitor to main L. Is this legal? Will it run foul of CE regs. How do I measure the power efficiency? As described the circuit has some problems. Is this LED mounted on the PCB or brought out to a panel? If it is on the power supply PCB, and is kept in the line section, it has a chance. The two motor start capacitors would be connected in series to form a 2.35 uF cap. The LED is in series. To limit charging current (when the unit is plugged in at the peak of the AC cycle) a 120 ohm resistor could be placed in this series string. During normal operation the resistor will dissipate 1.4 watts. The peak charging current is 1.5 amps for few hundred microseconds. Can the LED survive this? Then there is the surge testing. If this circuit is placed directly across the bridge rectifier inputs you have built-in surge protection. Other issues: Does a single-fault test need to be planned for one of the caps shorting? If so, the resistor dissipation will increase to 5.6 watts , requiring a larger wattage resistor. It could be cheaper to use a lower current LED with simply a series resistor across the output of the bridge. Or, to lower the power, place the circuit across the input to the bridge along with a rectifier diode and an antiparallel diode across the LED. Or, use a bridge and drive the LED and resistor from the unfiltered output. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I agree with Mr. Woodgate. Leading off with the Forrestal, without adequately explaining the failure mechanism, gives an unrealistic and misleading introduction to the subject. There was a degraded shield termination that allowed rf to couple to EED leads. For an entity whose emission challenge is CISPR 22 to cite a radar transmission as an emission is quite misleading. A better example might be early ABS braking systems to rf transmissions. on 3/27/03 4:25 AM, King, Richard at richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote: Dear All, Many thanks for your collective help with this question. I attach my final text below in case others on the list have a use for it. --- Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This article briefly describes the problems caused by Electromagnetic Interference, what must be done to control it, and the relevance it has to our work. Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) is caused by equipment that emits radio frequency energy, either deliberately or as a by-product. If this energy gets into nearby equipment it can degrade or even prevent its normal operation. This is an important factor in hardware design. Products cannot be allowed to accidentally cause an aircraft's landing gear to retract, or crash a nearby life-support machine for example. Just as importantly, equipment must continue to work reliably when stray energy is present, shrugging off interference from nearby noisy devices (such as the U.S.S. Forrestal's radar system). Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) is the science of non-interference. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same environment without the loss of function or performance in either, they are said to be (mutually) Electromagnetically Compatible. To ensure this compatibility for our systems, equipment must be designed to control its susceptibility to, and its emission of, electromagnetic interference. This can only be achieved through an engineering planned process applied over the whole product lifecycle. Careful consideration of design, procurement, production, site selection, installation, operation, and maintenance is required. --- Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK, -Original Message- From: King, Richard [SMTP:richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:07 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists Dear all, I am working on an article about EMC for an internal newsletter. The aim is to increase awareness of the EMC related projects on which my colleagues and I are currently engaged. The target audience is largely composed of engineers specialising in other subject areas (software, systems and hardware), managers and support staff. To put the piece in context I would like to succinctly describe what EMC is in an opening couple of paragraphs. However I am struggling to do so in language that is easy to read and not full of techno-jargon. My questions to the list are: What are your experiences of producing similar material? How well was it received and what is your advice for people producing similar text? Are there any examples of good summaries available, on the web or elsewhere, that people in my position can draw upon for inspiration? My current draft is copied after my signature. Comments or alterations, either by direct e-mail or to the list, will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK. Begin Draft Subject Description = EMC is two things: - The resistance of a piece of equipment to external Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) - The control of a piece of equipment's production of EMI. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same Electromagnetic Environment (EME) without degradation in the performance or function of either, they are said to be mutually Electromagnetically Compatible. To ensure Compatibility it is necessary to carefully design equipment such that both its susceptibility to, and its emission of EMI is controlled. Standards exist that define limits for both these aspects. Examples you may have heard of are the European EMC Directive, which is mandatory for all electrical hardware sold in the European Union
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
When the missile launched it struck another aircraft, the pilot was John Mccain, now Senator John McCain. Bill From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:37 PM To: boconn...@t-yuden.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists It is interesting, nonetheless, to note that the disaster occurred in July 1967, and in September of that year, MIL-E-6051C, EMC Requirements, Systems, was updated to the D revision, which for the first time required 20 dB safety margin demonstrations for EEDs. Coincidence? Perhaps... Ken Javor on 3/27/03 1:20 PM, boconn...@t-yuden.com at boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: Sir I must concur with Mr Woodgate. This particular instance in (very) infamous in the U.S. Navy USMC, but mostly for shipboard fire-fighting instruction and damage control protocol. The flight-deck videos of this are still shown to students of the fire-fighting school for carrier crew. The aircraft in question was stationary in the flight deck; it was not in the landing phase. The failure mode was a faulty connector. One of the major changes invoked by this disaster was the extensiion/formalization of enviromental stress testing (shock. vibration, thermal). EMC was not, IMO, considered part of the root cause. R/S, Brian -Original Message- From: King, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:18 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the introduction to an article, not a complete article. The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these points would be gratefully received. Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. -- Ken Javor EMC Compliance Huntsville, Alabama 256/650-5261
Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I read in !emc-pstc that Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote (in baa8f534.2522%ken.ja...@emccompliance.com) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists' on Thu, 27 Mar 2003: It is interesting, nonetheless, to note that the disaster occurred in July 1967, and in September of that year, MIL-E-6051C, EMC Requirements, Systems, was updated to the D revision, which for the first time required 20 dB safety margin demonstrations for EEDs. Coincidence? Perhaps... I would say it's either too soon after the incident to be caused by it, or it's a knee-jerk reaction to the incident. Two months, one of them August, is a VERY short time in the world of standards. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I read in !emc-pstc that Bill Morse bill...@verifone.com wrote (in 614cc7c21856d1118da30060b06b487306084...@smf-nt-mail1.verifone.com) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists' on Fri, 28 Mar 2003: When the missile launched it struck another aircraft, the pilot was John Mccain, now Senator John McCain. Missed! (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists
But wasn't the root cause an improperly shielded lead. In other words it was supposed to have been shielded but the build or install process failed in this case. So not necessarily the lack of adequate standards but an improperly build piece of equipment? Its been a very long time since I looked at this instance so it could be faulty memory on my part. Gary From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:37 PM To: boconn...@t-yuden.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists It is interesting, nonetheless, to note that the disaster occurred in July 1967, and in September of that year, MIL-E-6051C, EMC Requirements, Systems, was updated to the D revision, which for the first time required 20 dB safety margin demonstrations for EEDs. Coincidence? Perhaps... Ken Javor on 3/27/03 1:20 PM, boconn...@t-yuden.com at boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: Sir I must concur with Mr Woodgate. This particular instance in (very) infamous in the U.S. Navy USMC, but mostly for shipboard fire-fighting instruction and damage control protocol. The flight-deck videos of this are still shown to students of the fire-fighting school for carrier crew. The aircraft in question was stationary in the flight deck; it was not in the landing phase. The failure mode was a faulty connector. One of the major changes invoked by this disaster was the extensiion/formalization of enviromental stress testing (shock. vibration, thermal). EMC was not, IMO, considered part of the root cause. R/S, Brian -Original Message- From: King, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:18 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the introduction to an article, not a complete article. The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these points would be gratefully received. Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. -- Ken Javor EMC Compliance Huntsville, Alabama 256/650-5261
Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
It is interesting, nonetheless, to note that the disaster occurred in July 1967, and in September of that year, MIL-E-6051C, EMC Requirements, Systems, was updated to the D revision, which for the first time required 20 dB safety margin demonstrations for EEDs. Coincidence? Perhaps... Ken Javor on 3/27/03 1:20 PM, boconn...@t-yuden.com at boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: Sir I must concur with Mr Woodgate. This particular instance in (very) infamous in the U.S. Navy USMC, but mostly for shipboard fire-fighting instruction and damage control protocol. The flight-deck videos of this are still shown to students of the fire-fighting school for carrier crew. The aircraft in question was stationary in the flight deck; it was not in the landing phase. The failure mode was a faulty connector. One of the major changes invoked by this disaster was the extensiion/formalization of enviromental stress testing (shock. vibration, thermal). EMC was not, IMO, considered part of the root cause. R/S, Brian -Original Message- From: King, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:18 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the introduction to an article, not a complete article. The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these points would be gratefully received. Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. -- Ken Javor EMC Compliance Huntsville, Alabama 256/650-5261
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
Sir I must concur with Mr Woodgate. This particular instance in (very) infamous in the U.S. Navy USMC, but mostly for shipboard fire-fighting instruction and damage control protocol. The flight-deck videos of this are still shown to students of the fire-fighting school for carrier crew. The aircraft in question was stationary in the flight deck; it was not in the landing phase. The failure mode was a faulty connector. One of the major changes invoked by this disaster was the extensiion/formalization of enviromental stress testing (shock. vibration, thermal). EMC was not, IMO, considered part of the root cause. R/S, Brian -Original Message- From: King, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:18 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the introduction to an article, not a complete article. The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these points would be gratefully received. Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I should reiterate from my original message that the text I posted is the introduction to an article, not a complete article. The example was included to engage the reader from the start; demonstrate that electromagnetic compatibility between systems is a real-world issue; and show that a lack of EMC can have severe consequences. It highlights the importance of compatibility between systems in their operating environment, not the importance of compliance with standards in a laboratory, which I agree is often a separate matter. Any other examples that illustrate these points would be gratefully received. Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists I read in !emc-pstc that King, Richard richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote (in C02943801230D611919D00508BDF0C246EB61A@RTWEXCH) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists' on Thu, 27 Mar 2003: In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! Thales Defence (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error. Thank you. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I read in !emc-pstc that King, Richard richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote (in C02943801230D611919D00508BDF0C246EB61A@RTWEXCH) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists' on Thu, 27 Mar 2003: In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This is an appallingly bad example, insofar as it was caused by a **fault condition**. EMC standards, and the testing itself, do not take fault conditions into account. There is a separate subject 'EMC and functional safety', which is incredibly complicated. If you just think about it for a while, you will see why. Don't let your audience think that EMI occurs only when source or victim is faulty. EMI occurs when both would be working perfectly normally if the EMI were not present. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
-Original Message- From: King, Richard [mailto:richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:07 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists Dear all, I am working on an article about EMC for an internal newsletter. The aim is to increase awareness of the EMC related projects on which my colleagues and I are currently engaged. The target audience is largely composed of engineers specialising in other subject areas (software, systems and hardware), managers and support staff. To put the piece in context I would like to succinctly describe what EMC is in an opening couple of paragraphs. However I am struggling to do so in language that is easy to read and not full of techno-jargon. My questions to the list are: What are your experiences of producing similar material? How well was it received and what is your advice for people producing similar text? Are there any examples of good summaries available, on the web or elsewhere, that people in my position can draw upon for inspiration? My current draft is copied after my signature. Comments or alterations, either by direct e-mail or to the list, will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK. I pitch it low and slow: The whole idea of Electromagnetic Compatibility is to produce a product that operates in complete electronic harmony with its environment. Ideally, our product will cause no harm to any existing electronic system. We don't want our product to accidentally retract the landing gear or crash the payroll computer. And just as importantly, our equipment will continue to work reliably, shrugging off RF fields and powerline noise. That's all you need for the executive level description. If you want to go to the next level, then loop through: We ensure the compatibility of our product by creating a model of the real electronic environment, either from an established standard or by analysis. We use this model to define a set of electronic environmental tests. When our product is made to operate successfully in these model environments, we maximize the probability that our product will operate harmoniously in its market environment. If they want even more information, see if they might like a summer intern job in your lab. Regards, Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
Dear All, Many thanks for your collective help with this question. I attach my final text below in case others on the list have a use for it. Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) In 1967 off the coast of Vietnam, a jet landing on the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Forrestal was briefly illuminated by carrier-based radar. This is quite a normal event, however the energy from the radar caused a stray electrical signal to be sent to the jet weapon systems. The result was an uncommanded release of munitions that struck a fully armed and fuelled fighter on deck. The subsequent explosions killed 134 sailors and caused severe damage to the carrier and aircraft. This article briefly describes the problems caused by Electromagnetic Interference, what must be done to control it, and the relevance it has to our work. Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) is caused by equipment that emits radio frequency energy, either deliberately or as a by-product. If this energy gets into nearby equipment it can degrade or even prevent its normal operation. This is an important factor in hardware design. Products cannot be allowed to accidentally cause an aircraft's landing gear to retract, or crash a nearby life-support machine for example. Just as importantly, equipment must continue to work reliably when stray energy is present, shrugging off interference from nearby noisy devices (such as the U.S.S. Forrestal's radar system). Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) is the science of non-interference. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same environment without the loss of function or performance in either, they are said to be (mutually) Electromagnetically Compatible. To ensure this compatibility for our systems, equipment must be designed to control its susceptibility to, and its emission of, electromagnetic interference. This can only be achieved through an engineering planned process applied over the whole product lifecycle. Careful consideration of design, procurement, production, site selection, installation, operation, and maintenance is required. ... Best regards, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK, -Original Message- From: King, Richard [SMTP:richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:07 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists Dear all, I am working on an article about EMC for an internal newsletter. The aim is to increase awareness of the EMC related projects on which my colleagues and I are currently engaged. The target audience is largely composed of engineers specialising in other subject areas (software, systems and hardware), managers and support staff. To put the piece in context I would like to succinctly describe what EMC is in an opening couple of paragraphs. However I am struggling to do so in language that is easy to read and not full of techno-jargon. My questions to the list are: What are your experiences of producing similar material? How well was it received and what is your advice for people producing similar text? Are there any examples of good summaries available, on the web or elsewhere, that people in my position can draw upon for inspiration? My current draft is copied after my signature. Comments or alterations, either by direct e-mail or to the list, will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK. Begin Draft Subject Description = EMC is two things: - The resistance of a piece of equipment to external Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) - The control of a piece of equipment's production of EMI. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same Electromagnetic Environment (EME) without degradation in the performance or function of either, they are said to be mutually Electromagnetically Compatible. To ensure Compatibility it is necessary to carefully design equipment such that both its susceptibility to, and its emission of EMI is controlled. Standards exist that define limits for both these aspects. Examples you may have heard of are the European EMC Directive, which is mandatory for all electrical hardware sold in the European Union; and the Defence Standard DEF-STAN 59-41, which many of our contracts refer to. In addition to the distinction between emissions and susceptibility, EMI can be further classified as either conducted or radiated. The former is energy transferred via wires or other conductors; and the latter refers to electromagnetic waves propagating through free space. EMC is a necessary consideration for projects that deliver hardware. Furthermore, many of the requirements for EMC are common between projects. This commonality can be exploited to increase efficiency for individual projects and across sites. End Draft Subject Description = Thales Defence (Wells) DISCLAIMER
Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
To me, all this regulation can be synopsized: Electronics shall not put out stuff - conducted or radiated Electronics shall not be upset when stuff comes in - susceptibility to conducted or radiated. Difference in attitude between US and elsewhere: It is my understanding that in the US the FCC thought not to complicate the manufacturing process by adding susceptibility tests to product testing, but rather have the consumer simply modify their behaviour. If a product does not work well because it is easily upset by stuff coming in, the consumer will buy a different product and/or complain to the manufacturer, thus automatic control without FCC intervention. But in the EC and elsewhere, they thought to add tests ahead of time in order to establish a minimum quality standard of performance for the consumer, like prescreen for the consumer. Which is better control? Arguments go both ways. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 101 E San Fernando, Suite 402 San Jose, CA 95112 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists
Richard asks.. My questions to the list are: What are your experiences of producing similar material? How well was it received and what is your advice for people producing similar text? Always a difficult (but absolutely essential) task I find. You may have to stand in front of the audience with visual aids and an adequate supply of examples of EMC horrors to keep their attention. If the marketing manager's attention begins to fail them, mention litigation. If you must explain the certification process, list the various (numerous) tests that go into the process, distinguishing between them and the severity levels used (e.g. V/m for RI, kV for ESD etc) It always helps to explain clearly that mitigation usually requires a combination of electrical and mechanical measures. This makes the mechanical engineers sit up. Once you have taken them through it, you will find they are better disposed to read and understand the written work. Try not to be too simplistic, otherwise you will despair when after a seemingly successful presentation, you start hearing phrases like EMC rating of 30V/m. You may have to patiently point out that the unit V/m does not refer to all EMC tests. You might want to make a note of repeat offenders at this stage and run a 3-strikes and you're out policy, ably implemented with an ESD gun and strategically located ground plane. Should you run such a policy, beware of any fluid dynamics presentations to which the repeat offenders might invite you! Good luck, and remember, it is a worthwhile undertaking! Best regards - Chris Chileshe From: King, Richard [SMTP:richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:07 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists Dear all, I am working on an article about EMC for an internal newsletter. The aim is to increase awareness of the EMC related projects on which my colleagues and I are currently engaged. The target audience is largely composed of engineers specialising in other subject areas (software, systems and hardware), managers and support staff. snip This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists
For non-technical people ... in other words KISS. EMC is two things: I respectfully disagree. Here's what I'd say. Take it as you wish. EMC or Electromagnetic Compatibility is the products ability to pass a variety of electromagnetic product testing requirements demanded by different countries or customers. The requirements may vary greatly from country to country. These requirements may involve electromagnetic emission that the product produces internally, or in addition may involve exposing the product to a variety of aggressive extrenal electromagnetic environments. It is important to note that the compatibility of a product to testing is completely dependent upon the construction and performance of the product at the time of the testing. Any change to construction or performance after testing may compromise the products compatibility with those tests. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same Electromagnetic Environment (EME) without degradation in the performance or function of either, they are said to be mutually Electromagnetically Compatible. Okay, I'll go along with that, although my amateur legal hat bugs me to add for that specific EME . Regards, Doug McKean _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
I read in !emc-pstc that robert Macy m...@california.com wrote (in web-42369...@california.com) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists' on Tue, 25 Mar 2003: But in the EC and elsewhere, they thought to add tests ahead of time in order to establish a minimum quality standard of performance for the consumer, like prescreen for the consumer. No, not 'ahead of time', more nearly 'behind the times'. The preoccupation (apt!) with immunity is a consequence of the stupid restrictions placed on spectrum usage in Germany after WW2. This was at least partly due to the incipient Cold War - the East didn't want VOA and BBCOS to have West German transmitters relaying political messages at high power eastwards. The result was that German listeners had to put up with low field strength and consequent interference. They got into the habit of complaining about it. Some of the interference was way out-of-band and due to lack of immunity. Hence the German spectrum management authorities promoted national limits for immunity long before the EU came into the picture. The EU 'level playing field' thus more or less had to include immunity, but maybe not at the test levels required in some national standards. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-special ists
-Original Message- From: C N [mailto:abx...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:48 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists For non-technical people ... in other words KISS. EMC is two things: I respectfully disagree. Here's what I'd say. Take it as you wish. EMC or Electromagnetic Compatibility is the products ability to pass a variety of electromagnetic product testing requirements demanded by different countries or customers. Doug: I think that the ability to pass the tests is more correctly called Compliance. Compatibility is achieved only if the compliance requirements accurately portray the real world. Assuming that the compliance requirements have been set reasonably well, achieving Compliance will reasonably assure Compatibility. Yet, carried to extremes, it's certainly possible to not be in compliance, yet be compatible most of the time. And sometimes, you can be compliant, without always being compatible. Regards, Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists
I read in !emc-pstc that King, Richard richard.k...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote (in C02943801230D611919D00508BDF0C246EB5E8@RTWEXCH) about 'Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists' on Mon, 24 Mar 2003: EMC is two things: - The resistance of a piece of equipment to external Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) - The control of a piece of equipment's production of EMI. Yes, although it's usual to deal with emissions before immunity. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same Electromagnetic Environment (EME) without degradation in the performance or function of either, they are said to be mutually Electromagnetically Compatible. Yes. To ensure Compatibility it is necessary to carefully design equipment such that both its susceptibility to, and its emission of EMI is controlled. Standards exist that define limits for both these aspects. Examples you may have heard of are the European EMC Directive, which is mandatory for all electrical hardware sold in the European Union; and the Defence Standard DEF-STAN 59-41, which many of our contracts refer to. In addition to the distinction between emissions and susceptibility, EMI can be further classified as either conducted or radiated. The former is energy transferred via wires or other conductors; and the latter refers to electromagnetic waves propagating through free space. EMC is a necessary consideration for projects that deliver hardware. Furthermore, many of the requirements for EMC are common between projects. This commonality can be exploited to increase efficiency for individual projects and across sites. Fair enough. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Help wanted with succinct subject description for non-specialists
Dear all, I am working on an article about EMC for an internal newsletter. The aim is to increase awareness of the EMC related projects on which my colleagues and I are currently engaged. The target audience is largely composed of engineers specialising in other subject areas (software, systems and hardware), managers and support staff. To put the piece in context I would like to succinctly describe what EMC is in an opening couple of paragraphs. However I am struggling to do so in language that is easy to read and not full of techno-jargon. My questions to the list are: What are your experiences of producing similar material? How well was it received and what is your advice for people producing similar text? Are there any examples of good summaries available, on the web or elsewhere, that people in my position can draw upon for inspiration? My current draft is copied after my signature. Comments or alterations, either by direct e-mail or to the list, will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Richard King Systems Engineer Thales Communications UK. Begin Draft Subject Description = EMC is two things: - The resistance of a piece of equipment to external Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) - The control of a piece of equipment's production of EMI. If two pieces of equipment can operate in the same Electromagnetic Environment (EME) without degradation in the performance or function of either, they are said to be mutually Electromagnetically Compatible. To ensure Compatibility it is necessary to carefully design equipment such that both its susceptibility to, and its emission of EMI is controlled. Standards exist that define limits for both these aspects. Examples you may have heard of are the European EMC Directive, which is mandatory for all electrical hardware sold in the European Union; and the Defence Standard DEF-STAN 59-41, which many of our contracts refer to. In addition to the distinction between emissions and susceptibility, EMI can be further classified as either conducted or radiated. The former is energy transferred via wires or other conductors; and the latter refers to electromagnetic waves propagating through free space. EMC is a necessary consideration for projects that deliver hardware. Furthermore, many of the requirements for EMC are common between projects. This commonality can be exploited to increase efficiency for individual projects and across sites. End Draft Subject Description = Thales Defence Information Systems DISCLAIMER: The information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender if you have received this message in error. Thank you. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
[no subject]
Type Test voltages are not the same as the unit's ratings. If the unit is based on a 1010-1 or 950 standard, the voltage range for Type Tests must be 10% less and 6% greater than the unit's ratings. The FUS report will not include the unit's Test Report; as an individual FUS report is intended to verify construction only, but the Section General may include production test and other construction requirements. It is not unusual for an unit's markings to indicate a sub-range of the safety-agency ratings. Unless the FUS specifically states that the unit will be marked with a specified rating, VNs issued for markings that are within ratings are, IMO, not appropiate. good luck, Brian Hi all, Thank you very much for your comments.I have received many replies from this forum. May be someone out there can standardize this,applicable to UL,TUV,CSA etc. On the reportOn the physical part VN ? ... ... . 1. Rating (V) 90-135/180-265V115/230V NO,as this part has been tested in 90-135/180-265V range 2. Rating (I) 12/10A 10A NO,as this rating is within the tested rating 3. Rating (V) 120-127/220-240V 125/230V NO,as this part has been tested in 120-127/220-240V range 4. Rating (V) 120-127/220-240V 120-127V NO,the rating used within the tested range Once again ,thank you all and it would be good if there is standardisation made on this issue. R/S, Brian O'Connell Taiyo Yuden (USA), Inc.
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Hello all, I am searching for small package comb generator with amplitude calibrated output. Any resources you can give me are much appreciated. I will even entertain the idea of constructing one. best regards, -doug Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80535 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
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I 'm afraid that my response to Neven's comments concerning EFT might have sounded like I didn't approve of his method. Far from it, I think his method is sound. I added my comments about component value selection as an aside. Keep up the good work. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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All- I'd like to know if there are any opinions about... It is my understanding the CISPR 22 A1:2000 will require the use of ferrite clamps during RE tests of table-top equipment. Has anyone started using these devices during their testing? Has anyone seen a difference in their test results with the use of these devices? Best Regards, Patrick Conway NCE StorageTek EMC Advisory Engineer 303.661.6391 303.661.6717 (FAX) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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Hello, I am looking for a website where I can purchase electronic copies of EN standards. Thank you in advance for your help. Jim Purdie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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unsubscribe emc-pstc raymond.gar...@casa.eads.net end --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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Hello All, If you receive an email similar to the one below, Please DO NOT click on the link. If you have already clicked on this link, Please immediately contact your IT Department and unplug your PC. Ahmad Fallah -Original Message- From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:brian.ceres...@xantrex.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:26 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: 'EMC-PSTC you have an E-Card from . Greetings! has sent you an E-Card -- a virtual postcard from FriendGreetings.com. You can pickup your E-Card at the FriendGreetings.com by clicking on the link below. http://www.friendgreetings.com/pickup/pickup.aspx?code='EMC-PSTCid=2410021 Message: 'EMC-PSTC, I sent you a greeting card. Please pick it up. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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--- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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Hello Group, I am researching building a CISPR 16 compliant voltage probe as shown in CISPR 16-1.12.2. The Insertion loss is mentioned. I have looked into how to measure it and everything I have found so far uses two power meters. I have one. Is there an alternative measurement technique that I could employ? I am researching building it because I have not had any success in finding one I can rent. If anyone could point me in the direction of a rental source I would appreciate that also. Tony Rayman Compliance Engineer Advanced Compliance Solutions 5015 B.U. Bowman DR Buford, GA 30518 Tele (770) 831 8048 FAX (770) 831 5898
RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
Josh, I agree with your message below. It may not have been clear in my first email. The FDA's Laser Notice 50 allows the use of EN 60825-1 for the technical aspects of laser safety, such as: determination of the laser classification, how to label the device, what information to put in the manual... However, as you state below, the FDA/CDRH still demands that manufacturers meet the documentation, reporting and tracking requirements (units tracked by serial number, model number, reports to the CDRH...) listed in CFR 21, Part 1040. Chris -Original Message- From: Joshua Wiseman [SMTP:jwise...@printronix.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 6:27 PM To: Chris Maxwell; John Juhasz; Davis, Mike; Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety Chris, As I recall Laser Notice 50 does not exempt you from the record keeping and report of the CFR 21, only the qualification aspects. Regards, Josh --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
Chris, As I recall Laser Notice 50 does not exempt you from the record keeping and report of the CFR 21, only the qualification aspects. Regards, Josh -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 1:24 PM To: John Juhasz; Davis, Mike; Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety As a follow up to John's reply below: If you are considering taking some kind of class or hiring a consultant for laser safety; you may want to consider buying a copy of the latest version of EN 60825-1. The standard is very thorough, providing methods to determine the class of laser devices either by measurement or calculation. It also has tables of requirements for labeling, manual information, interlocking...requirements for different classes of lasers. The good thing is, the CDRH has issued Laser Notice 50 which essentially states that you can use EN 60825-1 to meet the technical aspects (laser classification, labeling...) of the CDRH requirements. This greatly simplifies the technical aspects of laser compliance. It also means that your copy of EN 60825 will help you with foreign and US laser safety compliance. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [SMTP:john.juh...@ge-interlogix.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 12:57 PM To: 'Davis, Mike'; Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety Mike, Go to the following link of the CDRH (Center for Devices and Radiological Health). They're the ones to whom the reports will be sent. There are further links to information that will be very useful to you and should answer most of the questions you posed below. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhlth/index.html Simply put, at this moment in the US LEDs are not regulated. But the CDRH will be aligning the regs with Europe (EN 60825) where verification that the LEDs are safe is required. GE Interlogix John A. Juhasz Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
As a follow up to John's reply below: If you are considering taking some kind of class or hiring a consultant for laser safety; you may want to consider buying a copy of the latest version of EN 60825-1. The standard is very thorough, providing methods to determine the class of laser devices either by measurement or calculation. It also has tables of requirements for labeling, manual information, interlocking...requirements for different classes of lasers. The good thing is, the CDRH has issued Laser Notice 50 which essentially states that you can use EN 60825-1 to meet the technical aspects (laser classification, labeling...) of the CDRH requirements. This greatly simplifies the technical aspects of laser compliance. It also means that your copy of EN 60825 will help you with foreign and US laser safety compliance. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [SMTP:john.juh...@ge-interlogix.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 12:57 PM To: 'Davis, Mike'; Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety Mike, Go to the following link of the CDRH (Center for Devices and Radiological Health). They're the ones to whom the reports will be sent. There are further links to information that will be very useful to you and should answer most of the questions you posed below. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhlth/index.html Simply put, at this moment in the US LEDs are not regulated. But the CDRH will be aligning the regs with Europe (EN 60825) where verification that the LEDs are safe is required. GE Interlogix John A. Juhasz Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
Mike - See below. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 6:59 AM 1.Are manufacturers required by the FDA to record serial numbers of Laser modules. Where is this requirement located? Does this apply to photodiodes also? A) Not in so few words. The requirements imply the need for a tracking method by way of a QC program, but nothing is specifically identified. Also, if there's a field incident, traceability to a manufacturing lot would likely become an issue, especially if the field incident is serious enough to warrant a recall (you would, no doubt, prefer to recall only some modules from the field, rather than all of them). S/Ns are the most common method I've seen used for this. B) photodiodes are not controlled by the FDA; neither are noncoherent LED sources 2.I have a concern of what I need to know about Laser safety but was afraid to ask (because it would cost more than my compliance budget ($0) would allow without manager approval). In other words (what is the second question?... I am getting there.) I am looking to hire a consultant or take a course. My supervisor wants me to create for him a proposal answering the type of questions that support the need to either attend a course or have a consultant educate me or our professionals here so that he can decide whether or not we need to hire a consultant, etc, etc. To keep this short, I will paraphrase by saying that the type of questions he would like to have answered is it worth the expense to getting smart, as engineers and a manufacturer of ITE, in the manufacturing of laser systems? I believe it's worth getting smart. I recommend (you just missed the last one): International Laser Safety Conference March 10-13, 2003 Jacksonville, FL http://www.laserinstitute.org/conferences/ilsc2003/index2003 .htm Here is my question... Is there information available that summarizes the responsibilities to Laser Safety of Compliance, Design, Manufacturing, and Test Engineers that manufacture laser systems? Refer to 21CFR and the CDRH web site for all of this. You'll find copies of the initial and annual reports and links to 21CFR. Some of the information you want is in early sections of Section 1040 (1040.01, .02) so don't ignore them and only review 1040.10. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
Mike, Go to the following link of the CDRH (Center for Devices and Radiological Health). They're the ones to whom the reports will be sent. There are further links to information that will be very useful to you and should answer most of the questions you posed below. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhlth/index.html Simply put, at this moment in the US LEDs are not regulated. But the CDRH will be aligning the regs with Europe (EN 60825) where verification that the LEDs are safe is required. GE Interlogix John A. Juhasz Fiber Options Div. Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 9:59 AM To: Emc-Pstc (E-mail) Subject: Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety 1.Are manufacturers required by the FDA to record serial numbers of Laser modules. Where is this requirement located? Does this apply to photodiodes also? 2.I have a concern of what I need to know about Laser safety but was afraid to ask (because it would cost more than my compliance budget ($0) would allow without manager approval). In other words (what is the second question?... I am getting there.) I am looking to hire a consultant or take a course. My supervisor wants me to create for him a proposal answering the type of questions that support the need to either attend a course or have a consultant educate me or our professionals here so that he can decide whether or not we need to hire a consultant, etc, etc. To keep this short, I will paraphrase by saying that the type of questions he would like to have answered is it worth the expense to getting smart, as engineers and a manufacturer of ITE, in the manufacturing of laser systems? Here is my question... Is there information available that summarizes the responsibilities to Laser Safety of Compliance, Design, Manufacturing, and Test Engineers that manufacture laser systems? You may respond either on or off line. Thanks in Advance! Michael S. Davis Compliance Engineer C-C0R.net Tel: 203.630.5788 Fax: 203.630.5762 mike.da...@c-cor.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Two Questions concerning the subject of Laser Safety
1. Are manufacturers required by the FDA to record serial numbers of Laser modules. Where is this requirement located? Does this apply to photodiodes also? 2. I have a concern of what I need to know about Laser safety but was afraid to ask (because it would cost more than my compliance budget ($0) would allow without manager approval). In other words (what is the second question?... I am getting there.) I am looking to hire a consultant or take a course. My supervisor wants me to create for him a proposal answering the type of questions that support the need to either attend a course or have a consultant educate me or our professionals here so that he can decide whether or not we need to hire a consultant, etc, etc. To keep this short, I will paraphrase by saying that the type of questions he would like to have answered is it worth the expense to getting smart, as engineers and a manufacturer of ITE, in the manufacturing of laser systems? Here is my question... Is there information available that summarizes the responsibilities to Laser Safety of Compliance, Design, Manufacturing, and Test Engineers that manufacture laser systems? You may respond either on or off line. Thanks in Advance! Michael S. Davis Compliance Engineer C-C0R.net Tel: 203.630.5788 Fax: 203.630.5762 mike.da...@c-cor.net application/ms-tnef
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Thank you all for your valuable input. i apologize for late reply. i ordered a copy of EN60950:2000. (thanks, Chris, George and constantin) and now, it is getting much clearer. however, i have some questions and would appreciate any comment. as per EN60950:2000, 4.7.2.1: 1. Except where method 2 of 4.7.1 is used exclusively, or as permitted in 4.7.2.2, the following parts are considered to have a risk of ignition and, therefore, require a FIRE ENCLOSURE: - components in PRIMARY CIRCUITS; So if i am interpreting Rich and Scott's e-mail right (great explanation), i do not need FIRE ENCLOSURE, if primary circuit is supplied by a Limited Power source. For an existing device, how do i know whether the primary circuit is supplied by a Limited Power source? are cell-phones, PDA's typically supplied by Limited Power Source? as per 4.7.3.4 2. Inside FIRE ENCLOSURE, materials for components and other parts, (including MECHANICAL and ELECTRICAL ENCLOSURE located inside FIRE ENCLOSURS) shall comply with on of the following: - be of FLAMMABILITY CLASS V-2 OR FLAMMABILITY CLASS HF-2; OR - pass the flammability test described in clause A.2; or - meet flammability requirements of a relevant IEC component standard which includes such requirements. Does this mean; if i have an enclosure inside a FIRE ENCLOSURE, than it has to be V-2 eventhough there are no safety hazards resulting from complete disapperance of the enclosure? thank you. vijay wani --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: (no subject)
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:28:57 -0800, you wrote: My apologies! In the last message I put a wrong address: maHordomo.. and of course the message got rejected - there just ain't no AI in my address book! snip You should be glad your address book has no AI. Our company email program is Lotus Notes, which will automatically pick an address from the corporate employee/customer/vendor address book if the name you type is incomplete. IE, typing 'Pat' instead of 'Pat Lawler'. More than once I've had to send follow-up emails to vendors and customers apologizing for the email they received that does not concern them. I finally found the menu option for this feature and turned it 'Off'! Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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My apologies! In the last message I put a wrong address: maHordomo.. and of course the message got rejected - there just ain't no AI in my address book! Gabi: You will have read some more on the subject, so best of good luck to you! Bogdan. bogdan matoga wrote: Gabi: I believe that there is a basic rule which is not published anywhere: when you design something, then do it right. When transient suppressors are needed, then use the correct component, which will not depend on Paschen's Law and give predictable performance. Same for necked down fuses. When you want performance, then do it right. The above original suggestions are perfect for Mickey-Mouse-engineering. Bogdan. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
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Check on following sheet manufacturers. i am not sure about EU. Allen Extruders Inc. www.allenx.com Alltrista Corp. www.alltrista.com Budd Co. www.buddcompany.com DSM Engineering Plastic Products www.dsmepp.com Klockner Pentaplast of america inc. www.klockner.com O'sullivan corp. www.osul.com Plastic Suppliers Inc. www.plasticsuppliers.com Primex Plastics Corp. www.primexplastics.com Solvay SA www.solvay.com Spartech Corp www.spartech.com Vijay Wani The Dow Chemical Company * Office (989) 636-0473 Mobile (989) 859-0451 * Fax (989)638-9289 *vw...@dow.com -Original Message- From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:kimb...@post7.tele.dk] Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:03 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: UL Plastic Hi all I need a EU manufacturer or distributor of HD PE plastic in sheets with UL 94HB approval as minimum. My problem is that the UL database register gives me nearly only PE pellets manufacturers not sheets. So I need to find the manufacturers of the sheets who is using the UL approved pellets. Can some one help me or point me in the right direction. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
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From: Cecil A. Gittens Hi All, What is the correct voltage labeling for the US, Canada and Mexico on product dataplate? Is it 100-120V or 100-127V? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
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Greetings Colleagues, Please consider the following career opportunity with Dell Computer Corporation. Interested applicants are requested to respond per the contact method at the end of the posting. Regards, Kaz Gawrzyjal, P. Eng. *Career Opportunity * Functional Title : Regulatory Engineer Senior Consultant Education/Experience: Ideal candidate would have earned a degree in BSEE/MSEE or comparable relevant work experience in lieu of education. Approximate 6+ yrs of experience. General Summary : The responsibilities of this position include investigating new market or changing regulatory requirements to assess impact to Dell business and products, negotiating and implementing agreements with certification agencies; implementing and managing self certification programs with international agencies. Other duties include working with cross-functional teams to ensure all aspects of EMI mitigation, product safety and environmental/ecology are implemented into a product design to support compliance to all country regulatory requirements. Principal Duties and Responsibilities : Provide guidance to Dell design teams and OEM partners in resolving issues that may arise during the review and testing of new Dell products by the various regulatory agencies. Prepare schedules, statements of work, and functional plans necessary to obtain required safety approvals for new Dell products. Work with various product line safety engineers to resolve factory variations (Non-Compliances) as needed to prevent factory shutdowns. Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities : Candidate with thorough understanding of EN60950, EN55022, EN55024 and the CB scheme is preferred. Also, candidates with below skills are preferred: Verbal and written communication. Strong presentation skills. Team leadership skills. Long range strategic planning skills with the ability to articulate the vision Tactical execution skills. Ability to mentor junior employees. Ability to manage multiple programs and/or areas simultaneously. Problem solving and analysis skills. Insight and skill to effectively manage cultural differences. Ability in organizing and managing multiple projects, setting priorities and working independently under aggressive timelines. Ability to move and inspire the team to innovate, incorporate, and produce winning designs, concepts, and details. Ability to visualize. Ability to work under date-driven schedules. Negotiation and persuasion skills. Contact Method :Interested candidates are invited to reference code# RG 26875 and submit resume to Christina Lin at christina_...@dell.com * Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ** This e-mail and its contents may be confidential, privileged and protected by law. Access is only authorized by the intended recipient. The contents of this e-mail may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the intended recipient, or stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. Dell Computer Corporation, its subsidiaries and affiliates, does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
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Dear Fellow Members, We have a wireless radio microphone using a 100MHz radio frequency that was previously tested for US Market. Is there anyone one can advice if this product is applicable to European Market (planned for UK). What is the testing standard required? Thanks for your attention Divine Ng --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
