Re: Consumer Electronics Compatibility
Ralph, Is the EMCAB-1 to which you refer the one issued by Industry Canada, If so, it is EMCAB-1 Issue 3 and can be downloaded (in PDF) for free at: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/sf01004e.html Please note that as this document's title (EMC Advisory Bulletin) suggests, this document is only an advisory bulletin and, as such, contains no requirements. Its focus relates to immunity in Canada. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com Ralph Cameron To: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com, EMC-PCST \(E-mail\) ralphc@igs.nemc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org et cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Consumer Electronics Compatibility owner-emc-pst c...@ieee.org 01/16/01 03:09 PM Please respond to Ralph Cameron Sorry, the attachment called EMCAB-1, Elecrtomagnetic Compatibility Bulletin -1 is 230K of PDF format so it exceeds the server limit. If any one is interested i will send it to you separately. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com To: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Consumer Electronics Compatibility Ralph: Would you provide a little more detail about the 30MHz Consumer Electronics compatibility problems that you have been addressing? Are you finding that the path is a direct galvanic connection, or is the problem caused primarily by radiation of energy off of the power lines? What are the most common emitting devices, and what types of devices are the most numerous victims? And of course, what's usually the best solution? Thanks, Ed -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:57 PM To: Ken Javor; dan kwok Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) Subject: Re: Site Correlation No, your message is clear, what I am saying is that the emissions below 30Mhz cause the majority of the interference problems to consumer electronics and that's not being addressed. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net; dan kwok dk...@intetron.com Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Site Correlation I must have been unclear in my previous message. The purpose of controlling cable cm CE is to control the resultant cable-induced RE, which are controlled to protect tunable antenna-connected radio receivers, period. There was never any other purpose for controlling CE or RE. Ken Javor Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael
Re: Consumer Electronics Compatibility
I would surmise the following, and would appreciate if Mr. Cameron could confirm / correct as appropriate: Victim equipmentFI threshold proper control IR motion sensors100 mV/m RI car alarms 100 mV/m RI garage door openers uV/m RE/better rf port design baby monitors uV/m RE/better rf port design telephones (cordless?) uV/m RE/better rf port design computer speakers100 mV/m RI The point being that RE are only controlled to protect intentional radio reception, and RI is imposed to protect equipment from intentional radio transmissions. A grey area would be a garage door opener succumbing to a high level signal out of band to its design frequency, which would be addressed by limits placed on out-of-band sensitivity, like the old MIL-STD-461 CS03/04/05/08. Ken Javor -- From: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net To: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com, EMC-PCST \(E-mail\) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Consumer Electronics Compatibility Date: Tue, Jan 16, 2001, 3:54 PM Ed and all who responded: I'm sorry to belabor this issue but I think it is generally one of awareness and perhaps may not have been raised before in such a manner. I think all of your observations are correct as Ed surmised Consumer electronics has not been well addressed because it has been largely a voluntary requirement. My opinion is such requirements are not observed in the real world. I am attached a PDF file called EMCAB-1 which in this country was promolgated many years ago and I think that will provide the information you ae missing. I might say that EMCAB-1 was ignored by manufacturers but the problems have persisted. I can also say that 15 years ago there were 30,000 cases a year in Cnada alone. This has dropped considerably in the last ten years but now we find consumer switch mode power supplies casuing the same problem . These are type, typically free running that do not contain microprocessors so do not fall under the Digital emissions regulations ( FCC Part 15). The harmonics from electronic transformers is condcuted back into the powerline and from there is re radiated by house wiring . It is not a CE problem relating to cables. My experience has been that the majority of this 'nuisance can be removed effectively with common mode inductors which could be offered as some consumer relief. In Canada, this is the consumer's responsibility. p.s recent devices exhibiting radiosensitivity are : Infra red motion sensors, car alarms, garage door openers, baby monitors, telephones , computer speakers etc. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com To: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Consumer Electronics Compatibility Ralph: Would you provide a little more detail about the 30MHz Consumer Electronics compatibility problems that you have been addressing? Are you finding that the path is a direct galvanic connection, or is the problem caused primarily by radiation of energy off of the power lines? What are the most common emitting devices, and what types of devices are the most numerous victims? And of course, what's usually the best solution? Thanks, Ed -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:57 PM To: Ken Javor; dan kwok Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) Subject: Re: Site Correlation No, your message is clear, what I am saying is that the emissions below 30Mhz cause the majority of the interference problems to consumer electronics and that's not being addressed. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net; dan kwok dk...@intetron.com Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Site Correlation I must have been unclear in my previous message. The purpose of controlling cable cm CE is to control the resultant cable-induced RE, which are controlled to protect tunable antenna-connected radio receivers, period. There was never any other purpose for controlling CE or RE. Ken Javor Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad
Re: Consumer Electronics Compatibility
Sorry, the attachment called EMCAB-1, Elecrtomagnetic Compatibility Bulletin -1 is 230K of PDF format so it exceeds the server limit. If any one is interested i will send it to you separately. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com To: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Consumer Electronics Compatibility Ralph: Would you provide a little more detail about the 30MHz Consumer Electronics compatibility problems that you have been addressing? Are you finding that the path is a direct galvanic connection, or is the problem caused primarily by radiation of energy off of the power lines? What are the most common emitting devices, and what types of devices are the most numerous victims? And of course, what's usually the best solution? Thanks, Ed -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:57 PM To: Ken Javor; dan kwok Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) Subject: Re: Site Correlation No, your message is clear, what I am saying is that the emissions below 30Mhz cause the majority of the interference problems to consumer electronics and that's not being addressed. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net; dan kwok dk...@intetron.com Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Site Correlation I must have been unclear in my previous message. The purpose of controlling cable cm CE is to control the resultant cable-induced RE, which are controlled to protect tunable antenna-connected radio receivers, period. There was never any other purpose for controlling CE or RE. Ken Javor Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Consumer Electronics Compatibility
Ralph: Would you provide a little more detail about the 30MHz Consumer Electronics compatibility problems that you have been addressing? Are you finding that the path is a direct galvanic connection, or is the problem caused primarily by radiation of energy off of the power lines? What are the most common emitting devices, and what types of devices are the most numerous victims? And of course, what's usually the best solution? Thanks, Ed -Original Message- From: Ralph Cameron [mailto:ral...@igs.net] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:57 PM To: Ken Javor; dan kwok Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) Subject: Re: Site Correlation No, your message is clear, what I am saying is that the emissions below 30Mhz cause the majority of the interference problems to consumer electronics and that's not being addressed. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: Ralph Cameron ral...@igs.net; dan kwok dk...@intetron.com Cc: EMC-PCST (E-mail) emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Site Correlation I must have been unclear in my previous message. The purpose of controlling cable cm CE is to control the resultant cable-induced RE, which are controlled to protect tunable antenna-connected radio receivers, period. There was never any other purpose for controlling CE or RE. Ken Javor Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
