RE: Ground Bond Testers
Brian, Be sure you are not imposing tests on yourself that are not required. You may protect against accessible parts becoming live under single fault in one of three ways. Try looking at your product as if you are using double insulation (6.5.2) rather than protective bonding. If you can meet the requirements for 6.5.2 then having grounded enclosure panels and the like is just icing on the cake, and not a compliance point you have to test. Best Regards, Lauren Crane Eaton Corporation -Original Message- From: Brian At Work [SMTP:bkundew...@qtm.net] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 4:48 PM To: IEEE Group Subject: Ground Bond Testers Hello Everyone, If I have a product that is rated 40 amps at 230V~, I assume I will have to perform Ground Bond Testing at Twice the Rated current per EN61010-1 section 6.5.1.2 which would be 80 amps. I have checked by regular sources and have only found testers that goes to around 30 amps. Can anyone send me a source to purchase a Ground Bond Tester that goes up to maybe 100 amps? If such a device does not exist, can anyone give me their recommendations on how to best perform this test? Thank you and best regards, Brian Kunde - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Ground Bond Testers - Continued
Brian, Try this loophole on for size. Depending upon the installation location - it may be necessary (required by law) to perform an earth bond test after installation of the equipment. In such a case, testing at your production site would not guarantee a higher level of safety. After all, the reason for making routine earth bond tests is to confirm proper assembly. I have seen production testing waived by a certifier under these conditions (not a high volume product - known installation locations - report of site testing kept for records). Example: You ship your equipment in sections and then assemble (or provide instructions to assemble) the equipment on site. After assembly the earth bond test is performed. Your customer should have access to the necessary equipment if testing is required. Good luck, Matt - Original Message - From: Brian At Work bkundew...@qtm.net To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 11:26 PM Subject: Ground Bond Testers - Continued Thanks to everyone for your replies. Using step down transformers, variacs, and current clamps work well for performing the Ground Bond test here in our safety lab with trained personnel, but this is not an acceptable procedure for less trained production line personnel. The lack of a commercial Ground Bond Tester that will achieve high current has me wondering if other manufacturers of high current equipment is performing 100% production line Ground Bond tests. Am I missing something here? Does this test not need to be done outside the safety lab? Am I foolishly looking for a easy, safe, production line solution for high current ground bond testers? Thanks, Brian - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Ground Bond Testers - Continued
-Original Message- From: Brian At Work [SMTP:bkundew...@qtm.net] Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 9:26 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:Ground Bond Testers - Continued Thanks to everyone for your replies. Using step down transformers, variacs, and current clamps work well for performing the Ground Bond test here in our safety lab with trained personnel, but this is not an acceptable procedure for less trained production line personnel. Kyle emits: This is a problem everyone has to deal with. The best approach is an up-to-date shop floor procedure and the use of a sprinkling of 'master technicians' who deputize those who are competent to understand and perform the tests and train others. A procedure for the tests and a start of day procedure to maintain confidence in the production test equipment is a must and to keep the vigil, a per unit checklist with a strong suggestion to consult the master techs if a question or unusual occurrence should arise.. The lack of a commercial Ground Bond Tester that will achieve high current has me wondering if other manufacturers of high current equipment is performing 100% production line Ground Bond tests. Am I missing something here? Does this test not need to be done outside the safety lab? Am I foolishly looking for a easy, safe, production line solution for high current ground bond testers? Thanks, Brian Kyle emits: This depends on your agreement with the target agency. We use UL under listing NWGQ and thus in their Section General -Section 2.0 Requirements For Factory Tests, therein lies the text of the methods for manufacture. Chances are you are tied to a %100 production line test of both hipot and ground bond on each unit. See section 2.1.1.1 for specifics. There is however, a clause in 2.1.2.1 Test Equipment -that states verbatim Any suitable continuity indicating device (such as an ohmmeter, a battery and buzzer combination, or the like) may be used to determine compliance with the Grounding Continuity Test requirements. Commercial ground continuity testers that pass a current through the grounding path may also be used to determine compliance with the same requirements. Clause 2.1.3 and beyond go into detail of the methods of the testing. Acceptability is based on simple continuity between the conductive parts specified. Hmm, we presently do %100 test of ground bond and hipot at a full minute each...I'll have to report to my superiors that a ground bond test for 1 minute is not required. Hey!! I just larned something!! Can I have a bonus now?? -nope... Kyle - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Ground Bond Testers
Hi, As sensitive as some agencies are about test instruments and calibration, using a rogue current source to do this test would seem to require some level of traceability for the instruments used? We maintain an updated list of all lab instruments and calibration affectivity as used and include this list when we submit test data (we are an in-house test lab w/COMPASS CTDP with UL/TUV as target agencies). Unless one uses a calibrated instrument to check an uncalibrated 'reference instrument' prior to use, how can it be expected to perform in a repeatable manner acceptable to the target agency? I suppose an AC 'buzzbox' welder could be used as a current source, but these are not terribly well regulated, voltage or current-wise, and getting a repeatable setting may be difficult depending on design. Pardon me if I made a dumb noise... Kyle (basically a super-tech with an 'assistant something-or-rather' title tacked on) -Original Message- From: Brian At Work [SMTP:bkundew...@qtm.net] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:48 PM To: IEEE Group Subject:Ground Bond Testers Hello Everyone, If I have a product that is rated 40 amps at 230V~, I assume I will have to perform Ground Bond Testing at Twice the Rated current per EN61010-1 section 6.5.1.2 which would be 80 amps. I have checked by regular sources and have only found testers that goes to around 30 amps. Can anyone send me a source to purchase a Ground Bond Tester that goes up to maybe 100 amps? If such a device does not exist, can anyone give me their recommendations on how to best perform this test? Thank you and best regards, Brian Kunde - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Ground Bond Testers - Continued
Thanks to everyone for your replies. Using step down transformers, variacs, and current clamps work well for performing the Ground Bond test here in our safety lab with trained personnel, but this is not an acceptable procedure for less trained production line personnel. The lack of a commercial Ground Bond Tester that will achieve high current has me wondering if other manufacturers of high current equipment is performing 100% production line Ground Bond tests. Am I missing something here? Does this test not need to be done outside the safety lab? Am I foolishly looking for a easy, safe, production line solution for high current ground bond testers? Thanks, Brian - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Ground Bond Testers
Hello, This is what we use. We have a number of power supplies from 50 amps to 1000 amps. We use a calibrated current shunt to verify the output current. Ned Devine Entela, Inc. Program Manager III Phone 616 248 9671 Fax 616 574 9752 e-mail ndev...@entela.com -Original Message- From: peterh...@aol.com [mailto:peterh...@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 2:02 PM To: bkundew...@qtm.net; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Ground Bond Testers Brian, I think that you would be able to use a bench type DC power supply which is cable of delivering 100A at low voltage of 12V. Standard does specify AC or DC current. This way, you don't have to have an specific ground tester. Almost all companies have DC power supply that can be used for these type of applications. Perhaps others could express their view on the use of DC power supply. Thanks Peter - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Ground Bond Testers
I would use an transformer type electric welder. Rgds, Lou Best Regards, Lou Aiken 27109 Palmetto Drivetel 1 334 981 6786 Orange Beach, ALfax 1 334 981 3054 36561 USA car 1 334 979 4648 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Ground Bond Testers
Brian, I think that you would be able to use a bench type DC power supply which is cable of delivering 100A at low voltage of 12V. Standard does specify AC or DC current. This way, you don't have to have an specific ground tester. Almost all companies have DC power supply that can be used for these type of applications. Perhaps others could express their view on the use of DC power supply. Thanks Peter - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Ground Bond Testers
Brian, Use bonding leads suitable to carry the current (see IEC 950 Third Edition for sizes of leads used for earthing) and let the test house worry about doing the test. With the money you save, take your family out for a dinner! Peter Hello Everyone, If I have a product that is rated 40 amps at 230V~, I assume I will have to perform Ground Bond Testing at Twice the Rated current per EN61010-1 section 6.5.1.2 which would be 80 amps. I have checked by regular sources and have only found testers that goes to around 30 amps. Can anyone send me a source to purchase a Ground Bond Tester that goes up to maybe 100 amps? If such a device does not exist, can anyone give me their recommendations on how to best perform this test? Thank you and best regards, Brian Kunde PETER S. MERGUERIAN MANAGING DIRECTOR PRODUCT TESTING DIVISION I.T.L. (PRODUCT TESTING) LTD. HACHAROSHET 26, P.O.B. 211 OR YEHUDA 60251, ISRAEL TEL: 972-3-5339022 FAX: 972-3-5339019 E-MAIL: pe...@itl.co.il Visit our Website: http://www.itl.co.il - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Ground Bond Testers
Hello Everyone, If I have a product that is rated 40 amps at 230V~, I assume I will have to perform Ground Bond Testing at Twice the Rated current per EN61010-1 section 6.5.1.2 which would be 80 amps. I have checked by regular sources and have only found testers that goes to around 30 amps. Can anyone send me a source to purchase a Ground Bond Tester that goes up to maybe 100 amps? If such a device does not exist, can anyone give me their recommendations on how to best perform this test? Thank you and best regards, Brian Kunde
