RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
Carlos, I do not worry too much about EMI or EMC issues for in-house test equipment. Reason being is - some engineer will probably de-skin it sooner rather than later anyway. I do always look at electrical, mechanical and laser safety issues. I will require changes to make things safe that way. But if your FM radio stops working, oh well Scott s_doug...@ecrm.com -Original Message- From: carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com [SMTP:carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 2:22 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
It is my understanding that the protection requirements apply, and it is also necessary for the technical documentation to be available, but that it is not necessary to actually put the logo on the product or prepare a D of C. I have a liaison committee minute from HSE which appears to state, in effect, that CE marking takes precedence over the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations; in other words you can't claim exemption from CE marking on the basis of equipment falling under PUWER. However, it's not entirely clear from the document the extent to which one has to go. For reasons connected with another project I am involved in I have today officially asked the HSE for their position on this matter, and when I receive a reply I will post details to the list. Regards Nick. At 07:22 +0100 13/8/99, carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com wrote: Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
Carlos, As you are in the UK you might want to talk to your Home Authority Trading Standards Officer. Many of them can carry out screen test level assessments at almost no cost. They will also give advice on interpreting areas like this for free. A word of caution, however, get their feedback in writing. You can then use this as part of your defence if ever necessary. It is two years since I left the UK, do the Duckworths still run the Rovers Return? Alan _ Alan Brewster Compliance Certification Services 1366 Bordeaux Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1005 Tel: 408-752-8166 ext. 122 Fax: 408-752-8168 e-mail: abrews...@ccsemc.com http://www.ccsemc.com -Original Message- From: carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com [SMTP:carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:22 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
From what I have read in various standards (national International - and I v'e read a few in my 17 years as a compliance engineer) these items are generally exempt from meeting these requirements. Obviously, as someone mentioned in an earlier message, Health Safety laws require that the employee be safe. Therefore, (I would do it anyway - laws or not) any test jig should always be designed with product safety standards in mind anyway. As far as EMC is concerned, you obviously don't want the test jig to interfere with other nearby equipment. Your general EMC design practices should be used even with test jigs. Personally, I don't change my design practices because it is a test jig. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-370-1324 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 6:14 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house I don't know whether the LV and EMC Directives apply to in house manufcatured test boxes, test jigs and the like. One thing I do know is that if I told my manager that we had to test all our stuff and either chuck out or modify anything that didn't comply he'd string me up Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com [SMTP:carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com] Sent: 13 August 1999 07:22 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 08/13/99 at 11:17:09; code 37453441765A44CC. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, Ermine Business Park Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6XY Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
Since this is a UK question, The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1992 (SI 1992 No. 29323) would seem to apply. It states under Conformity with Community requirements 10 - (1) Every employer shall ensure that any item of work equipment provided for use in the premises or undertaking of the employer complies with any enactment (whether in an Act or instrument) which implements in Great Britain any of the relevant Community directives listed in Schedule 1 which is applicable to that item of work equipment. In Schedule 1 are the LVD, machinery and EMC directives, and a lot more. (And dare I ask, does a piece of equipment which complies with an old revision of a standard which has been removed from the OJ, continue to comply with the LVD ??) You could always argue that your equipment meets the essential requirements, spelt out in the Work Equipment Regulations, since the LVD only applies tp equipment placed on the market. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [SMTP:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Sent: 13 August 1999 11:14 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house I don't know whether the LV and EMC Directives apply to in house manufcatured test boxes, test jigs and the like. One thing I do know is that if I told my manager that we had to test all our stuff and either chuck out or modify anything that didn't comply he'd string me up Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com [SMTP:carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com] Sent: 13 August 1999 07:22 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 08/13/99 at 11:17:09; code 37453441765A44CC. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, Ermine Business Park Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6XY Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
Carlos Perkins wrote... Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Hi Carlos, In the UK, apart from EU Directives for the market, there are is a complete set of requirements for Health and Safety at Work. When you start taking onboard the mandatory Hazard And Risk Assessment for the task and consider the reaction of the Health and Safety Executive if they come to investigate an accident - you may find that for many pieces of home brew equipment formal certification starts to look like a reasonable option. On the EMC side, although the EMC Directive might not apply (more in a moment) the 1949 Wireless Telegraphy Act does apply and causing interference to emergency services, navigation frequencies or telecommunication systems that make lots of money from providing high reliability radio links might work out expensive one way or another. The EC Guidance document says (my words) that, although the item is never placed on the market as such, the requirements for placing on the market apply when the item is taken into service... As you have decided that the equipment must meet the protection requirements I assume that it you will have some sort of evidence to support the concept. If you have the evidence and are happy with it, then is there a great leap to sticking the CE Mark on it? Note: When in the UK with uncertified equipment at a trade fair or exhibition - the Wireless Telegraphy Act still applies, as does civil liability. I hope that this helps? Tim - My mind is my own, blame no other for my thoughts. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
Carlos, Over the years, I have designed and built a lot of this type of equipment. It is actually easier to build in safety with this type of equipment rather than a commercial product because component costs are not as much of a factor. Here are a few rules to follow: Identify and list all possible safety hazards - make a checklist Use appropriate connectors for the voltages and currents involved Use CE marked components wherever possible Make sure that all SELV wiring is physically separate from non-SELV wiring Use additional insulation over non-SELV wiring whenever possible Secure all wiring against coming loose inside the enclosure Securely fasten all hot or heavy components within the enclosure Clearly label any potential hazards - If necessary, label as For Use Only By Trained Operator Securely fasten all access covers with appropriate fasteners - use special tamper-resistant fasteners if required - label all covers Do Not Remove - Service To Be Performed Only By Specially Trained Personnel Finally, make sure that all safety issues on the checklist have been properly addressed If all of the above are properly done, you should have safe test fixtures which no safety inspector should have any problems with. One more thing, be sure to properly document all test fixtures, and keep copies on file. I hope this helps some, Scott Lacey - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
I don't know whether the LV and EMC Directives apply to in house manufcatured test boxes, test jigs and the like. One thing I do know is that if I told my manager that we had to test all our stuff and either chuck out or modify anything that didn't comply he'd string me up Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com [SMTP:carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com] Sent: 13 August 1999 07:22 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 08/13/99 at 11:17:09; code 37453441765A44CC. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, Ermine Business Park Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6XY Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house
My understanding is the same as yours - you must meet the protection requirements. Regarding safety, I believe that to show due diligence concerning Health and Safety regulations you would in any case have to ensure the equipment was safe to use; the easiest way is to ensure compliance with a suitable standard like 60950 or 61010-1, and to have records showing how it complied. Regarding EMC, the protection requirements must be met bearing in mind the potential for problems inside and outside your facility. Thus the environment in which it is used is relevant, as well as for example the attenuation of your factory walls (in case of emissions). In practice it is the safety of your employees which is the critical issue unless you build rf transmitters in your boxes! Roger Viles WWG carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com on 13/08/99 07:22:17 Please respond to carlos.perk...@eu.effem.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Roger Viles/PLY/Global) Subject: Equipment designed and manufactured for use in-house Dear All, A question from UK: Does anyone have a strategy for handling the Low Voltage and EMC Directive requirements relating to equipment made for use in-house? By this, I mean test boxes, power supplies, break-out boxes, etc. These products are not meant to be offered for sale (ie not 'placed on the market'), but have been 'taken into service' by being switched on and used. I think, therefore, that the protection requirements of the Directives must be met, but CE marking is not necessary. In terms of Safety, I think EN 60950 and EN 61010-1 are relevant. Does anyone have a view on this? Cheers, Carlos Perkins - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
