RE: Testing for the EMC directive
John, thanks for that update. Now I have to wonder if I am testing our ITE correctly. We have an ITE that has a thermostat and heater for outdoor use. We have been testing the heating circuit to the click requirements of EN 55014-1. However, it would appear that one could reverse the CENELEC reasoning and say that primary function determines the standard to be used - in this case it would be EN55022 - and the clicks from the heating circuit would not be evaluated. Strange. Richard Woods -- From: John Woodgate [SMTP:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:41 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Testing for the EMC directive I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in EDFA411E5E4AD2 118D6F00A0C99E4BAC0386B0B5@FLBOCEXU02) about 'Testing for the EMC directive', on Thu, 16 Aug 2001: It is confusing. Yes, the scope of EN 55014-2 does say it applies to equipment even if it contains electronic circuits. But the scope of EN 55014-1 says that the present standard applies unless the rf energy is intentionally generated. That means 'intentionally to USE the r.f.'. In that case, EN55011 applies, not EN55022. The scope goes on to say that the separate parts of the equipment such as motors and switching devices are subject to EN 55014-1. Thus, equipment with motors / switching devices are subject to EN 55014-1 and the rf circuits are subject to EN 55022 EN55022 DOES NOT apply. A battery charger is not within its scope. This point was settled officially (but, one would have thought, unnecessarily) a long time ago. The Irish standards body asked CENELEC whether a washing machine containing a microprocessor was ITE or not. The official answer was that 'Function determines the applicable standard. A washing machine is a washing machine and the standards for washing machines [which happen to be EN55014-1-and -2] apply.' and the complete device is subject to EN55014-2. I guess one could argue that it is sufficient to reference EN 55014-1 and EN55022 on the DoC instead of EN 50081-1. Either way works for me since EN 50081-1 just points to the other documents. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Testing for the EMC directive
I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in EDFA411E5E4AD2 118D6F00A0C99E4BAC0386B0B5@FLBOCEXU02) about 'Testing for the EMC directive', on Thu, 16 Aug 2001: It is confusing. Yes, the scope of EN 55014-2 does say it applies to equipment even if it contains electronic circuits. But the scope of EN 55014-1 says that the present standard applies unless the rf energy is intentionally generated. That means 'intentionally to USE the r.f.'. In that case, EN55011 applies, not EN55022. The scope goes on to say that the separate parts of the equipment such as motors and switching devices are subject to EN 55014-1. Thus, equipment with motors / switching devices are subject to EN 55014-1 and the rf circuits are subject to EN 55022 EN55022 DOES NOT apply. A battery charger is not within its scope. This point was settled officially (but, one would have thought, unnecessarily) a long time ago. The Irish standards body asked CENELEC whether a washing machine containing a microprocessor was ITE or not. The official answer was that 'Function determines the applicable standard. A washing machine is a washing machine and the standards for washing machines [which happen to be EN55014-1-and -2] apply.' and the complete device is subject to EN55014-2. I guess one could argue that it is sufficient to reference EN 55014-1 and EN55022 on the DoC instead of EN 50081-1. Either way works for me since EN 50081-1 just points to the other documents. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Testing for the EMC directive
I read in !emc-pstc that jim.hulb...@pb.com wrote (in OF25420186.6F5E8B 41-on85256aaa.00634...@pb.com) about 'Testing for the EMC directive', on Thu, 16 Aug 2001: I don't think the caveat is correct that the generic emissions standard applies to the equipment if it includes digital circuits with clocks above 9kHz. The equipment falls under the scope of EN 55014-1 and EN 55014-2 even if it contains digital circuits with high frequency clocks. In fact within EN 55014-2, different categories of equipment are delineated. Category I includes equipment with no electronic control circuitry, categories II and III include equipment containing control circuitry with no clock frequency higher than 15 MHz, and category IV includes other equipment. If the equipment falls under the scope of EN 55014-2 for immunity, then it naturally also falls under the scope of EN 55014-1 for emissions, and vice versa. These product family standards apply with precedence over generic standards. That is quite correct. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Testing for the EMC directive
I don't think the caveat is correct that the generic emissions standard applies to the equipment if it includes digital circuits with clocks above 9kHz. The equipment falls under the scope of EN 55014-1 and EN 55014-2 even if it contains digital circuits with high frequency clocks. In fact within EN 55014-2, different categories of equipment are delineated. Category I includes equipment with no electronic control circuitry, categories II and III include equipment containing control circuitry with no clock frequency higher than 15 MHz, and category IV includes other equipment. If the equipment falls under the scope of EN 55014-2 for immunity, then it naturally also falls under the scope of EN 55014-1 for emissions, and vice versa. These product family standards apply with precedence over generic standards. Jim Hulbert Pitney Bowes wo...@sensormatic.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/16/2001 08:30:30 AM Please respond to wo...@sensormatic.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: RE: Testing for the EMC directive Daren, thanks for pointing out the EN 55014 series includes battery chargers. I missed that. Yes, these are the appropriate product family standards and would take precedence over the generic standards. The harmonics and flicker standards still apply. One caveat: If the equipment includes digital circuits with clocks above 9 kHz, then the generic emission standard would apply since it specifies that both EN 55022 and EN 55014-1 are to be used for emissions. Richard Woods -- From: Darren Pearson [SMTP:dar...@genesysibs.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:14 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Fw: Testing for the EMC directive You might find the following standards of use, EN55014-1 and EN55014-2 they have a section for Battery chargers. regards Darren. Darren Pearson Radio Telecom Approval Services Genesys email: dar...@genesysibs.com web: www.genesysibs.com - Original Message - From: wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Testing for the EMC directive The following EMC standards would apply: EN 50081-1:1992, Generic Emissions EN 50082-1:1997, Generic Immunity EN 61000-3-2:1995, Power line harmonics emissions EN 61000-3-3:1995, Power line flicker emissions If the power level of the device is low, actual testing to the power line standards may not be necessary. Richard Woods -- From: Stuart Lopata [SMTP:stu...@timcoengr.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:00 AM To: emc Subject: Testing for the EMC directive I have a consumer battery charger. What set of tests need to be done for CE mark approval? Sincerely looking for answers, Stuart Lopata Timco Engineering --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail
Re: Testing for the EMC directive
I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in EDFA411E5E4AD2 118D6F00A0C99E4BAC0386B0AB@FLBOCEXU02) about 'Testing for the EMC directive', on Thu, 16 Aug 2001: Daren, thanks for pointing out the EN 55014 series includes battery chargers. I missed that. Yes, these are the appropriate product family standards and would take precedence over the generic standards. The harmonics and flicker standards still apply. Conformity with EN61000-3-3 need only to be *test* if the charger is 'likely' to cause flicker. It most probably isn't, so is deemed to conform. We are not told the current or power rating of the charger. If it is less than 75 W, it is deemed to conform with EN61000-3-2. Above 75 W, the Class A limits apply. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Testing for the EMC directive
Daren, thanks for pointing out the EN 55014 series includes battery chargers. I missed that. Yes, these are the appropriate product family standards and would take precedence over the generic standards. The harmonics and flicker standards still apply. One caveat: If the equipment includes digital circuits with clocks above 9 kHz, then the generic emission standard would apply since it specifies that both EN 55022 and EN 55014-1 are to be used for emissions. Richard Woods -- From: Darren Pearson [SMTP:dar...@genesysibs.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:14 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Fw: Testing for the EMC directive You might find the following standards of use, EN55014-1 and EN55014-2 they have a section for Battery chargers. regards Darren. Darren Pearson Radio Telecom Approval Services Genesys email: dar...@genesysibs.com web: www.genesysibs.com - Original Message - From: wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: RE: Testing for the EMC directive The following EMC standards would apply: EN 50081-1:1992, Generic Emissions EN 50082-1:1997, Generic Immunity EN 61000-3-2:1995, Power line harmonics emissions EN 61000-3-3:1995, Power line flicker emissions If the power level of the device is low, actual testing to the power line standards may not be necessary. Richard Woods -- From: Stuart Lopata [SMTP:stu...@timcoengr.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:00 AM To: emc Subject: Testing for the EMC directive I have a consumer battery charger. What set of tests need to be done for CE mark approval? Sincerely looking for answers, Stuart Lopata Timco Engineering --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Testing for the EMC directive
The following EMC standards would apply: EN 50081-1:1992, Generic Emissions EN 50082-1:1997, Generic Immunity EN 61000-3-2:1995, Power line harmonics emissions EN 61000-3-3:1995, Power line flicker emissions If the power level of the device is low, actual testing to the power line standards may not be necessary. Richard Woods -- From: Stuart Lopata [SMTP:stu...@timcoengr.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:00 AM To: emc Subject: Testing for the EMC directive I have a consumer battery charger. What set of tests need to be done for CE mark approval? Sincerely looking for answers, Stuart Lopata Timco Engineering --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
