RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
Joe, First, use Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) for the actual manuals. This is rapidly becoming the defacto world standard for on-line documentation. You can link to them from .html web pages easily. You can also burn them onto a CD-ROM if you need to include manuals with the product. Acrobat has a catalog feature that will allow the user to click on a title in the document and immediately open that page. In my current assignment, I regularly retrieve .pdf integrated circuit specifications from the manufacturers web pages. The printed pages are razor sharp, 8-1/2 x 11 data sheets. You can (with the licensed software) print to a .pdf file from any application, including schematic packages. The reader is available for free. I once demonstrated the ability of Acrobat for a client. By clicking on the appropriate line of a top level Bill of Material the appropriate document was immediately displayed - Schematic, PCB artwork, mechanical drawing, component specification, etc. The down side is that you need a modern computer and laser printer to get the most out of it. I have no experience with how the EC and various agencies feel about this. All the documentation I worked with was for company personnel and technically savvy customers. Scott Lacey P.S. Disclosure: I have no financial interest in Adobe Systems or any other software company. I just like the product! -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 6:11 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
For your information, UL allows safety instructions to be in 'electronic' or 'soft' format if printed material is provided with instructions for initialization of the product in question without the introduction of a hazard. Per UL, the printed material should also include information describing existence of the electronic instructions within the product software. Regards, Bandele Jetstream Communications, Inc. badep...@jetstream.com -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:18 AM To: gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com Cc: dick.grob...@medgraph.com; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals Safety standards specify topics which must be addressed in manuals. Only those portions of the manual addressing those specific safety topics are controlled by the certifier. The remainder of the manual is controlled by the product manufacturer; this remainder may be provided in any form the manufacturer chooses. So, the manual can be considered as consisting of two sets of data: 1) data required by the safety standard; and 2) data provided by the manufacturer (e.g., instructions on how to install, operate, and service the equipment). The certifier cannot tell us how to run our business with regard to item 2. The manufacturer can provide the data in any form he chooses. Data required by the safety standard can be subdivided into two parts: a) data required for installation (i.e., up to the point where data could be read from an electronic format); and b) data required after installation. Clearly, any safety data required before the unit can display electronic data, (a), must be provided in hard-copy or equivalent form. Data for (b) can be provided in electronic format. In my experience, certifiers accept these kinds of categorization of manual safety data. Regards, Rich ps: I have approached UL with the request... Asking permission (e.g., from a certifier) empowers the other party to determine how you will behave and what you need to do to satisfy him. Often, such empowerment results in decisions well beyond the range or outside the bounds of the standard. In the end, you are often stuck with an onerous requirement that does not coincide with either safety or business needs. I address such issues with a proposal together with a rationale why my proposal meets the standard or the intent of the standard. This enables a discussion of the principles that are involved, and does not empower the other party to make decisions for me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re:RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
forwarded for Joshua Reply Separator Subject:RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals Author: Joshua Wiseman jwise...@printronix.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 7/28/00 7:47 AM I don't know about UL and the EU, but I know that BSMI won't accept a digital manual. I sent them one and they came back asking for a hard copy. Josh -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 3:11 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
Safety standards specify topics which must be addressed in manuals. Only those portions of the manual addressing those specific safety topics are controlled by the certifier. The remainder of the manual is controlled by the product manufacturer; this remainder may be provided in any form the manufacturer chooses. So, the manual can be considered as consisting of two sets of data: 1) data required by the safety standard; and 2) data provided by the manufacturer (e.g., instructions on how to install, operate, and service the equipment). The certifier cannot tell us how to run our business with regard to item 2. The manufacturer can provide the data in any form he chooses. Data required by the safety standard can be subdivided into two parts: a) data required for installation (i.e., up to the point where data could be read from an electronic format); and b) data required after installation. Clearly, any safety data required before the unit can display electronic data, (a), must be provided in hard-copy or equivalent form. Data for (b) can be provided in electronic format. In my experience, certifiers accept these kinds of categorization of manual safety data. Regards, Rich ps: I have approached UL with the request... Asking permission (e.g., from a certifier) empowers the other party to determine how you will behave and what you need to do to satisfy him. Often, such empowerment results in decisions well beyond the range or outside the bounds of the standard. In the end, you are often stuck with an onerous requirement that does not coincide with either safety or business needs. I address such issues with a proposal together with a rationale why my proposal meets the standard or the intent of the standard. This enables a discussion of the principles that are involved, and does not empower the other party to make decisions for me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
I have approached UL with the request at least for an on-line version, (which addresses the revision cost) and the answer was no, at least not yet. The company I worked for at the time didn't build or supply a computer, and the equipment didn't need one to run. Based on that their reasoning was that we could assure access to a computer terminal, nor an internet connection. The second reason took me a little thinking about because I always have a connection its seems strange that anyone wouldn't have it. But after a little reflection I could indeed think of a lot of instances where either people I know or folks that might use the equipment either didn't have a connection or it was physically located far from the equipment. Dick has a good list of other potential problems, but as an old friend would often say, They are opportunities!. Mind you he never said that when he had to find the solution to them Gary -Original Message- From: Dick Grobner [mailto:dick.grob...@medgraph.com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:18 AM To: 'marti...@appliedbiosystems.com' Cc: IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail) Subject:RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals We have played with the idea but have consistently talked ourselves out of it. Reasons have been: - the ability to read the manuals (one also needs to provide a copy of some sort of reader software such as Adobe) - Revision control is a concern along with the cost. - Our manuals are quite complex, you need the ability to quickly reference (back and forth) multiple sections within the manual at a given time. If you have ever tried this with a large on screen document it can be quite a slow process, thus annoying. - We do not supply the PC at all times with our device, some users in third world countries may not have the top of the line computing hardware that we are accustom to here in the US. This could cause yet another problem. - if you have mechanical drawings (typ in a service manual) based in say - AutoCAD you need to provide a viewer such as VoloVeiw. The same holds true for schematics. So - for now we have opted to stay with the old fashion paper hardcopy versions. Hope this provides some insight. Never approached UL on this one, but I would think if you have a revision control plan/scheme in place it should be no problem. Good Luck! -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:11 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
We have played with the idea but have consistently talked ourselves out of it. Reasons have been: - the ability to read the manuals (one also needs to provide a copy of some sort of reader software such as Adobe) - Revision control is a concern along with the cost. - Our manuals are quite complex, you need the ability to quickly reference (back and forth) multiple sections within the manual at a given time. If you have ever tried this with a large on screen document it can be quite a slow process, thus annoying. - We do not supply the PC at all times with our device, some users in third world countries may not have the top of the line computing hardware that we are accustom to here in the US. This could cause yet another problem. - if you have mechanical drawings (typ in a service manual) based in say - AutoCAD you need to provide a viewer such as VoloVeiw. The same holds true for schematics. So - for now we have opted to stay with the old fashion paper hardcopy versions. Hope this provides some insight. Never approached UL on this one, but I would think if you have a revision control plan/scheme in place it should be no problem. Good Luck! -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 5:11 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
UL Acceptance of On-Line Manuals
We are planning to switch over to an on-line system for our User Manuals. Does anyone have any experience with using an on-line system? Does the user have the same access as with paper manuals? What are the downsides of such a system? Has anyone dealt with UL and the European Union on their acceptance of on-line manuals? All information is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
