Re: [Emc-users] Threading Hickups

2007-10-19 Thread John Kasunich
Kirk Wallace wrote:
> Thanks for the e-mail Einar. There is a cabinet on each side of the
> lathe. The VFD is in the right cabinet and is grounded to the cabinet. A
> flex conduit with a plastic outer and a metal spiral inner carries three
> conductors to the motor connection box which is screwed to the motor
> housing. So, there should be metal surrounding the VFD to motor leads
> for the entire distance. 

There may be metal surrounding it, but that "spiral" has a lot of 
inductance and is not a good high frequency ground.  If this is conduit 
and not cable, I'd pull the three wires out, then pull them back in with 
at least one ground wire added (three if you have room, one loosely 
twisted around each power wire).  Connect the ground wire(s) directly to 
the motor housing, and directly to the VFDs ground terminal.
The ground wires can be smaller than the power wires, especially if you 
have three.

Even better, if you can get some, is a braid that can be expanded enough 
to run the three motor leads through it, then stretched lengthwise so it 
snugs down around the motor wires.  Again, connect one end directly to 
the motor frame, and the other directly to the VFD ground.

The idea here is to have the return path for stray currents as close as 
possible to the outgoing path.

Regards,

John Kasunich





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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic -- Centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 15:41 -0500, Brian Michalk wrote:
> Is there an old trick to turning a part exactly on center?
> If this venue is not the right place, I would appreciate a pointer to an 
> active group that could help me.

Here are two other machining sites I know of:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/

http://www.cnczone.com/

> I have 12mm precision round shafting.  I need to turn down one end of it 
> to .25 inches diameter.
> I have a four jaw chuck, and center to within .001", but when I hard 
> couple a stepper motor to this part, it binds due to the .25" boss not 
> being exactly on center.

The first thing that comes to mind is... can you start with a larger
shaft and create all of your critical features in the first setup?

> I do have a spider coupling, but would rather go direct due to the added 
> size of the coupling.

What about flex mounting the stepper motor with a rigid top link going
lets say right and a bottom link going left? I would think that the
motor bearings would need to be fairly stout and you may need to mount
to the center of the motor, but its a thought.
 *
  ---
===III===| Stepr |
  ---
 *
Side View ^

Back View \/
   *=* Link
 
||
 
*=*   Link

or maybe three equally spaced links and no flex mount.

> Is there some "trick" someone could enlighten me with?

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC lathe
Bridgeport mill conversion pending
Zubal lathe conversion pending)


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Re: [Emc-users] centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Stuart Stevenson
You don't say what your lathe is. Does it have a tailstock? If so,
turn the end and leave about .010 (.020 on the diameter - .270) stock.
Then use a combination center drill and countersink to drill a center
hole for a center in the tailstock. Loosen the chuck and slide the
part out of the chuck. Chuck the part with the minimum amount
possible. Use the tailstock center to support the turned end with the
shoulder. This will allow you to dial in the shaft for the entire
length. When you have it dialed in then lightly machine the turned end
to the diameter you want. Cut lightly. Take your time. The best would
be a toolpost grinder.
If your chuck doesn't have a tailstock find a lathe with a tailstock.
thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] Threading Hickups

2007-10-19 Thread Kirk Wallace
Thanks for the e-mail Einar. There is a cabinet on each side of the
lathe. The VFD is in the right cabinet and is grounded to the cabinet. A
flex conduit with a plastic outer and a metal spiral inner carries three
conductors to the motor connection box which is screwed to the motor
housing. So, there should be metal surrounding the VFD to motor leads
for the entire distance. The control electronics are in the left
cabinet.

I did some more investigation today. 

The current encoder system starts with a Pico Systems Universal PWM
Controller and a stand alone +12 Volt power supply. The UPC encoder
inputs and +12 Volt supply are connected to a home built differential
receiver, then a four-pair shielded cable and the receiver. The
four-pair shield is grounded by a lead to cabinet. 6 inch unpaired
unshielded leads connect to the spindle encoder. A +5 Volt regulator,
input capacitor and output capacitor are on both the receiver and
transmitter.

I first by-passed as much as I could by running a CAT-5 unshielded four
pair cable between the encoder and the UPC encoder inputs and on-board
+5 supply. This worked properly, some of the pulses appeared fatter than
others, but they where all in the right place and there were no extra
pulses. I tried a thread and it came out as close to correct as I could
tell.

I added the differential boards to the CAT-5 and got the previous noise
problem.

Finally, I went directly from the encoder to the UPC and its +5 supply
using the existing shielded cable which worked properly.

Using an oscilloscope, when I probed the power supplies with the spindle
running, I got about .5 Volts of ripple that had a three stair step up
and down appearance. Probing the +5 Volt differential signals I got a
very short 10 Volt spike on the rising edge of each pulse, but otherwise
they looked well formed. Without the differential boards, the +5 Volt
encoder pulses had a more drawn out spike on the rising edge and the
tops varied about a Volt above +5.

The whole idea of the differential boards where to reduce the
susceptibility of the system to noise, but the boards themselves seem to
make the effect of the noise worse.

I think I need to place ferrite beads or other type of filter on the VFD
inputs and outputs and then revisit the oscilloscope. I don't have much
experience with tracking down noise with an oscilloscope, so if anyone
has some words of wisdom, I would appreciate hearing them. I will try to
get some scope pictures on my website too. If anyone has a good source
for VFD appropriate filters, please let me know. I melted the original
filters, so I know you can't use just anything.

In the mean time, leaving the differential boards out, seems to work.

On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 21:01 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I may not have seen all the posts regarding this, but none that I saw 
> mentions using shielded 
> cable from the VFD to the motor?
> 
> If not already done, change to shielded cable for the motor leads too!
> The braid needs to be grounded at the VFD and the motor.

I found another thread where someone suggested the same thing plus using
an additional three conductors, grounded on each end, to make a three
twisted pair motor connection.

> Never ever use a pigtail to extend the braid to ground. This goes for both 
> encoder and power 
> cables. Clamp the braid itself to ground or use a grounding feedthrough!

I have a central grounding post on the backplate of my cabinet. I have
been trying to run all my grounds to this post, including leads from my
cable shields. Are you suggesting tying the shields to the backplate
where the the shield ends? 
> 
> If there is any potential difference between motor and VFD (cabinet), 
> equalise it with a 
> multistrand ground lead with a good cross section. Don't care if this might 
> look like creating a 
> ground loop through the braid. The current will go through the lead with the 
> least resistance (your 
> ground lead). Hence the solid cross section.
>  
> Einar Sjaavik

I have tried to avoid the dreaded ground loop (thats funny, pilots have
a dreaded ground loop too) but the wiring has gotten so complex, that I
probably wouldn't see it.

-- 
Kirk Wallace (California, USA
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ 
Hardinge HNC lathe
Bridgeport mill conversion pending
Zubal lathe conversion pending)


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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic -- Centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 19 October 2007, Brian Michalk wrote:
>Is there an old trick to turning a part exactly on center?
>If this venue is not the right place, I would appreciate a pointer to an
>active group that could help me.
>
>I have 12mm precision round shafting.  I need to turn down one end of it
>to .25 inches diameter.
>I have a four jaw chuck, and center to within .001", but when I hard
>couple a stepper motor to this part, it binds due to the .25" boss not
>being exactly on center.
>I do have a spider coupling, but would rather go direct due to the added
>size of the coupling.
>
>Is there some "trick" someone could enlighten me with?

The only quick and dirty way I'd try first, is to let the shaft extend well 
past the chuck jaws, centered as well as you can, then setup a follow rest to 
force it to the bit by 4 or 5 thou while riding the uncut shaft, and do the 
turning to the 0.250" size against that.  And I might grind rather than turn 
the last .010".  I'm in the thought process of taking the bearing cartridge 
from the front end of a old dremel and rigging a rigid mount the tool holder 
could carry, and spin one of those $14.95 diamond wheels for the dremel.  
Those things cut like crazy with a touch you often can't even hear, I even 
use them to tune up dull carbide bits here.  One might also be able to get 
the cable handpiece of the dremel 400 held in a toolpost but I've NDI how 
much give there is in that things bearing mount.  I've done some decent work 
using that wheel and the whole dremel hanging on the toolpost, but on my 
teeny 7x12 lathe, its too easy to run out of carraige motions with that 
relatively huge grinder, so you can't get at all the workpiece with it in one 
pass.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants,
today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
-- Dave Barry

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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic -- Centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Brian Michalk

Ed wrote:
parallel or concentric with the center line of the spindle. In the end 
the best is to find room for a flexible coupling.  Ed.


I was hoping you wouldn't say that.
Thanks.

begin:vcard
fn:Brian Michalk
n:Michalk;Brian
adr:;;2204 Lockwood Cove;Austin;TX;78723;USA
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel;home:512-928-1112
tel;cell:512-699-4037
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
version:2.1
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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic -- Centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Ed
Brian Michalk wrote:
> Is there an old trick to turning a part exactly on center?
> If this venue is not the right place, I would appreciate a pointer to an 
> active group that could help me.
> 
> I have 12mm precision round shafting.  I need to turn down one end of it 
> to .25 inches diameter.
> I have a four jaw chuck, and center to within .001", but when I hard 
> couple a stepper motor to this part, it binds due to the .25" boss not 
> being exactly on center.
> I do have a spider coupling, but would rather go direct due to the added 
> size of the coupling.
> 
> Is there some "trick" someone could enlighten me with?

After you turn the diameter recheck the concentricity by indicating both 
diameters as it is turning at a slow RPM. Another problem might be the 
part is not chucked parallel to the spindle axis. To check that, chuck 
your piece with at least 1" sticking out from the chuck, now adjust to 
center with the indicator point near the chuck and then check it near 
the end, if you have any difference then the axis of your part is not 
parallel or concentric with the center line of the spindle. In the end 
the best is to find room for a flexible coupling.  Ed.

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[Emc-users] Off Topic -- Centering a lathe piece

2007-10-19 Thread Brian Michalk

Is there an old trick to turning a part exactly on center?
If this venue is not the right place, I would appreciate a pointer to an 
active group that could help me.


I have 12mm precision round shafting.  I need to turn down one end of it 
to .25 inches diameter.
I have a four jaw chuck, and center to within .001", but when I hard 
couple a stepper motor to this part, it binds due to the .25" boss not 
being exactly on center.
I do have a spider coupling, but would rather go direct due to the added 
size of the coupling.


Is there some "trick" someone could enlighten me with?
begin:vcard
fn:Brian Michalk
n:Michalk;Brian
adr:;;2204 Lockwood Cove;Austin;TX;78723;USA
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel;home:512-928-1112
tel;cell:512-699-4037
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [Emc-users] Threading Hickups

2007-10-19 Thread einar
I may not have seen all the posts regarding this, but none that I saw mentions 
using shielded 
cable from the VFD to the motor?

If not already done, change to shielded cable for the motor leads too!
The braid needs to be grounded at the VFD and the motor.

Never ever use a pigtail to extend the braid to ground. This goes for both 
encoder and power 
cables. Clamp the braid itself to ground or use a grounding feedthrough!

If there is any potential difference between motor and VFD (cabinet), equalise 
it with a 
multistrand ground lead with a good cross section. Don't care if this might 
look like creating a 
ground loop through the braid. The current will go through the lead with the 
least resistance (your 
ground lead). Hence the solid cross section.
 
Einar Sjaavik


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Re: [Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 19 October 2007, Be Alert wrote:
>>So all I do is point the browser at the unpacked file, neat.
>
>Should be all you have to do.. If you have any problems - let me know..
>
>I'm building a upload feature into it now. So if you have something you want
>to test, you should be able to point to your local file, it will upload it,
>and do it's thing.   Stay tuned...
>
>> >I have a friend with a small winery, <300 gallon batches, I'll ask him
>>
>> what he
>>
>> >is using, or rather her, since Debbie is the brains of that
>>
>> pair.  There's a
>>
>> >small possibility they may be interested.  Reply privately with more
>> >propaganda & prices & I'll relay it to them.
>
>The price is simple - it's free. I simply wrote it a few years ago to test
>PHP.
>I retired from the worlds largest winery (You probably know who) a few years
>back, and was in charge of their development. They still use my stuff by the
>way, after all these years.
>What's nice about it, is that it is web centric. So obviously you can get to
>the data from anywhere in the world. Want to run it on a iPhone - go ahead -
>I tested that and it works. Since I was used to BIG, I had a lot of problems
>thinking small. Took a couple of tries to tame it down.
>Have them e-mail me privately if they are interested. If for no other reason
>than to get their thoughts on how it should run...
>
>Have a great day...
>Dan

Great!  I need to go pick up a couple bottles of white zin (or something even 
dryer since I have old age sugar myself) one of these days & I'll check.  
Thanks again.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Linux: The OS people choose without $200,000,000 of persuasion.
-- Mike Coleman

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Re: [Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Be Alert
>So all I do is point the browser at the unpacked file, neat.

Should be all you have to do.. If you have any problems - let me know..

I'm building a upload feature into it now. So if you have something you want
to test, you should be able to point to your local file, it will upload it,
and do it's thing.   Stay tuned...

>
> >I have a friend with a small winery, <300 gallon batches, I'll ask him
> what he
> >is using, or rather her, since Debbie is the brains of that
> pair.  There's a
> >small possibility they may be interested.  Reply privately with more
> >propaganda & prices & I'll relay it to them.


The price is simple - it's free. I simply wrote it a few years ago to test
PHP.
I retired from the worlds largest winery (You probably know who) a few years
back, and was in charge of their development. They still use my stuff by the
way, after all these years.
What's nice about it, is that it is web centric. So obviously you can get to
the data from anywhere in the world. Want to run it on a iPhone - go ahead -
I tested that and it works. Since I was used to BIG, I had a lot of problems
thinking small. Took a couple of tries to tame it down.
Have them e-mail me privately if they are interested. If for no other reason
than to get their thoughts on how it should run...

Have a great day...
Dan
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[Emc-users] x-axis lathe orientation

2007-10-19 Thread Jaime Pozo
Hi,

Is there a way in AXIS-lathe to "invert" one axis
in the backplot drawing, that is to say, change the
x-axis orientation, to see it like a mirror?

toX
__Z> |__Z
|
X

-- 
Best regards,
JJ
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Re: [Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 19 October 2007, Be Alert wrote:
>>I played with this, probably abusing your server a bit a week or so
>> ago.  I've
>>
>> >also downloaded it to my emc machine, but I'm wondering if it will run on
>> >inux?  php & mysql we have, but ajax?
>
> Don't worry about the server - that's what it's there for. It does tend to
>crunch a little. This is the first cut so it don't do much. Simply follows
>the lines.
>
>I wrote it in PHP because it runs everywhere. The problem with PHP is it
>requires server software like apache. Should be no problem with the AJAX
>code.
>
I don't ATM recall if php is installed on that box or not, but I'll find out 
the next time I need to use it.  Which seems fairly often, but not for exotic 
jobs.  The last one was moving 16 bolt holes in a 1/8" thick fiberglass pcb 
to fit a newer, closer spaced, screw terminal capacitors in our tv 
transmitter.  Drudgery standing there do it by hand for an old fart.

>The ajax code I wrote myself. It's already in the program. Ajax by any other
>name is simply javascript calls. This is controlled by the Browser and they
>work the same in linux or Apple.

So all I do is point the browser at the unpacked file, neat.

>Ajax simply makes your program interactive instead of the typical PHP batch
>where you fill in a bunch of stuff and sent the screen, check the screen,
>and turn it around if it's bad. Ajax lets you look at each entry on the
>screen. It is faster since it only sends the data you enter.
>The ajax code I worte is very simple to use and is documented at
>http://ajax.andbest.info where you can download it. It uses standard calls
>so you basically don't have to learn anything new.
>I recently rewrote a winery management system. It required around 700
>programs. Using AJAX it dropped to about 80 programs and they were simpler
>and smaller and therefore easier to debug and maintain.
>http://www.andbest.info/winelite/

I have a friend with a small winery, <300 gallon batches, I'll ask him what he 
is using, or rather her, since Debbie is the brains of that pair.  There's a 
small possibility they may be interested.  Reply privately with more 
propaganda & prices & I'll relay it to them.

Thanks Dan.


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
In success there's a tendency to keep on doing what you were doing.
-- Alan Kay

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Re: [Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Be Alert
>I played with this, probably abusing your server a bit a week or so
> ago.  I've
> >also downloaded it to my emc machine, but I'm wondering if it will run on
> >inux?  php & mysql we have, but ajax?


 Don't worry about the server - that's what it's there for. It does tend to
crunch a little. This is the first cut so it don't do much. Simply follows
the lines.

I wrote it in PHP because it runs everywhere. The problem with PHP is it
requires server software like apache. Should be no problem with the AJAX
code.

The ajax code I worte myself. It's already in the program. Ajax by any other
name is simply javascript calls. This is controlled by the Browser and they
work the same in linux or Apple.
Ajax simply makes your program interactive instead of the typical PHP batch
where you fill in a bunch of stuff and sent the screen, check the screen,
and turn it around if it's bad. Ajax lets you look at each entry on the
screen. It is faster since it only sends the data you enter.
The ajax code I worte is very simple to use and is documented at
http://ajax.andbest.info where you can download it. It uses standard calls
so you basically don't have to learn anything new.
I recently rewrote a winery management system. It required around 700
programs. Using AJAX it drooped to about 80 programs and they were simpler
and smaller and therefore easier to debug and maintain.
http://www.andbest.info/winelite/

Good luck...
Have a great day...
Dan



>I just wrote it, so I'll call it beta since I'm sure there are still bugs
> >hanging around.
> >I'd appreciate any reports on bugs.
> >
> >Have a great day...
> >Dan
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years
> of careful development.
> -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: [Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 19 October 2007, Be Alert wrote:
>I recently wrote a program that generates g-code from photos. It accepts
>jpg,gif,png,and bmp type photos.
>It can generate two types of g-code. Carve type for photos, and Line for
>line drawings. Line drawings are good for things like dovetails etc.
>
>If anyone is interested, it's available at http://cnc.andbest.info/
>It has docs and a download.
>
I played with this, probably abusing your server a bit a week or so ago.  I've 
also downloaded it to my emc machine, but I'm wondering if it will run on 
linux?  php & mysql we have, but ajax?

>I just wrote it, so I'll call it beta since I'm sure there are still bugs
>hanging around.
>I'd appreciate any reports on bugs.
>
>Have a great day...
>Dan



-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years
of careful development.
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Emc-users] Generating stick-font toolpaths?

2007-10-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 19 October 2007, ben lipkowitz wrote:
>you could try autotrace with the -centerline option. it wouldn't give you
>the z-depth for different widths with a conical cutter, but it might look
>ok anyway.
>
Humm, when was that option added to truetypetracer?  I've just been letting it 
cut the outlines, which with the font I was using, didn't look all that bad, 
I made a nameplate that's mounted beside the front door, on brass kickplate 
material.  Also the one on my mailbox.

Another possibility might be to print it, scan it, & use potrace on the scan.

>On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Patrick Ferrick wrote:
>> I was wondering if anyone could suggest some open-source software for
>> generating toolpaths for making signs.
>>
>> Apparently the preferred kind of font is called a "stick font" or
>> "single stroke font" and I have found that there are quite a few
>> commercial packages that do this.  We have been using QCAD's CAMExpert
>> demo version (the full version of which is very reasonably priced) but
>> both provide only one such font.
>
>-
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-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
I know the answer!  The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!
The answer is twelve?  I think I'm in the wrong building.
-- Charles Schulz

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[Emc-users] g-code generation

2007-10-19 Thread Be Alert
I recently wrote a program that generates g-code from photos. It accepts
jpg,gif,png,and bmp type photos.
It can generate two types of g-code. Carve type for photos, and Line for
line drawings. Line drawings are good for things like dovetails etc.

If anyone is interested, it's available at http://cnc.andbest.info/
It has docs and a download.

I just wrote it, so I'll call it beta since I'm sure there are still bugs
hanging around.
I'd appreciate any reports on bugs.

Have a great day...
Dan
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