Re: [Emc-users] 5axhydrotelgui.py

[K.J. Kirwan]

Oops, sorry to reply to my own post, but I meant
a screenshot showing off the 5-axis gui, not the
colorized text file.  I didn't make that very clear.

Thanks,

Kim


K.J. Kirwan wrote:

> Hi Stuart,
> 
> Is there a nice .png which shows it off? (hint, hint)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kim
> 
> 
> Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> 
>>Gentlemen,
>>   Here is  a colorized and rewritten gui file for the cinci 5axis. If
>>you have downloaded the previous you will want to get this one as it
>>makes it pretty. :)
>>
>>www.mpm1.com:8080/5axhydrotelgui.py
>>
>>thanks
>>Stuart
>>
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] 5axhydrotelgui.py

[K.J. Kirwan]

Hi Stuart,

Is there a nice .png which shows it off? (hint, hint)

Thanks,

Kim


Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>Here is  a colorized and rewritten gui file for the cinci 5axis. If
> you have downloaded the previous you will want to get this one as it
> makes it pretty. :)
> 
> www.mpm1.com:8080/5axhydrotelgui.py
> 
> thanks
> Stuart
> 
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Jon Elson]

Leslie Newell wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
> 8 counts is 0.0098mm or 0.00038".  Steady state is within 1 count 
> (0.00122mm). I'm happy with that.
>
>   
Well, you certainly should be!  If you can stay within .01 mm even 
during acceleration, that sounds very good to me.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Leslie Newell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:41:15 +0100
> From: Leslie Newell 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing
> 
> That was one of the first things I tried. I have now found the problem.
> encoder.nn.index-invert does not work. Setting it to 1 or 0 makes no
> difference (at least for encoder 05). Inverting the index pulse by
> physically swapping the encoder outputs sorted the problem.

The hardware works (just tested SV12 encoder 5). There may not be much 
apparent difference between inverted or non-inverted index because they are 
both edge triggered. It looks like the driver does not set the ABGateIndex bit 
so what I said about index happening all the time with the wrong index 
polarity would not happen, just the home position might change by a count or 2 
depending in index width (assuming a normal rotary encoder short index).

If swapping the leads solves your problem, it might be electrical 
troubles. The current driver not setting ABGateindex means a narrow index 
pulse would work regardless of polarity though the home position would 
change slightly depending on whether the rising or falling edge generates 
the index event (since an edge is always needed)



>
> Les
>
>
>>
>> Did you try index invert? Homing anywhere is a sign that index needs
>> to be inverted
>>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Leslie Newell]

Here you go...


Les

John Kasunich wrote:
> 
> To be honest, one of the best ways to share your HAL config is to start 
> EMC, and then (in another shell) run "halcmd show all", redirect the 
> output to a file, and post that.  The show all command will show you 
> every pin, parameter, and signal in your system, as well as your 
> threads, etc.
> 
> The HAL files describe what you want.  The "show all" command describes 
> what you have.  Both can be useful.


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[John Kasunich]

Leslie Newell wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 
> You may regret asking that :-). Here we go:
> ini
> http://pastebin.ca/1490014
> 
> Hal is broken into a number of files
> 

To be honest, one of the best ways to share your HAL config is to start 
EMC, and then (in another shell) run "halcmd show all", redirect the 
output to a file, and post that.  The show all command will show you 
every pin, parameter, and signal in your system, as well as your 
threads, etc.

The HAL files describe what you want.  The "show all" command describes 
what you have.  Both can be useful.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Chris,

You may regret asking that :-). Here we go:
ini
http://pastebin.ca/1490014

Hal is broken into a number of files

load.hal - loads modules
http://pastebin.ca/1490015

motion.hal - motion control
If the spindle code looks complicated it is because of the three speed 
electromechanical gear change. There is loads of ClassicLadder stuff 
controlling it as well.
http://pastebin.ca/1490017

io.hal - inputs and outputs
http://pastebin.ca/1490018

mpg.hal
http://pastebin.ca/1490020

These aren't finished. I have a whole raft of front panel controls still 
to connect up. Also there is a rotary axis that is not yet implemented.

Les


Chris Radek wrote:

> 
> This is another sign of threads being out of order.  There was a bug
> that caused it, but Seb fixed it quite a while back.  I don't
> remember if it was released, or just on trunk for a while.
> 
> Please pastebin your current hal and ini files.


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Leslie Newell]

That was one of the first things I tried. I have now found the problem. 
encoder.nn.index-invert does not work. Setting it to 1 or 0 makes no 
difference (at least for encoder 05). Inverting the index pulse by 
physically swapping the encoder outputs sorted the problem.

Les


> 
> Did you try index invert? Homing anywhere is a sign that index needs 
> to be inverted
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Stuart Stevenson]

Les,
   that 'bit' more time gets harder to find the farther you get from today :)
Stuart

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Leslie Newell wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> I have a lot more work to do on the machine and jobs queued up for it so
> that will have to do for the time being. If I change the servo thread
> frequency I'll have to re-do all of the tuning and I don't have time.
> When I get a bit more time I'll have a go.
>
> Thanks,
> Les
>
>
> Peter C. Wallace wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on the mechanical frequency response of your system, you may be 
>> able
>> to get a little better performance by speeding up the servo thread. This will
>> improve the phase margins of the system, possibly allowing a bit more gain
>> (and damping to go with it). A very rough rule of thumb is to have the
>> sample rate (servo thread rate in this case) 10 to 30 times the mechanical
>> frequency response.
>>
>>
>
>
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Chris Radek]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 07:02:09PM +0100, Leslie Newell wrote:
> 
> By the way, for some reason I have a following error problem when 
> homing. Just after the home switch/index releases I can hear the machine 
> thump and get a joint following error unless I turn the limits way high. 

This is another sign of threads being out of order.  There was a bug
that caused it, but Seb fixed it quite a while back.  I don't
remember if it was released, or just on trunk for a while.

Please pastebin your current hal and ini files.


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Leslie Newell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:02:09 +0100
> From: Leslie Newell 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing
> 
> Basically it is ignoring the index signal. If I press home and manually
> operate the home switch I can get it to home anywhere. Doing this it
> should only home to an integer multiple of the screw pitch. I just tried
> homing with HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 and that works correctly. It sees the
> index and homes to it. The problem only seems to occur when it uses the
> home switch.

Did you try index invert? Homing anywhere is a sign that index needs 
to be inverted


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Leslie Newell]

Basically it is ignoring the index signal. If I press home and manually 
operate the home switch I can get it to home anywhere. Doing this it 
should only home to an integer multiple of the screw pitch. I just tried 
homing with HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 and that works correctly. It sees the 
index and homes to it. The problem only seems to occur when it uses the 
home switch.

By the way, for some reason I have a following error problem when 
homing. Just after the home switch/index releases I can hear the machine 
thump and get a joint following error unless I turn the limits way high. 
(1mm instead of 0.05). Normally with jogging/G0 moves etc the following 
error is well below 0.05mm.

Les
> This was my first guess as well.  Les, can you tell us what part of this 
> behavior you think is wrong?
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Chris Radek]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 10:51:07AM -0600, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> 
> GPIO 28 is the I/O pin used for Index for encoder #5 on the firmware Les 
> is using.  He's watching the raw value on the input pin, bypassing the 
> encoder, to verify that his wiring is correct.

OK, so he may only see a signal there sometimes, or when moving very
slowly, right?  Maybe this is part of the confusion.


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Peter,

I have a lot more work to do on the machine and jobs queued up for it so 
that will have to do for the time being. If I change the servo thread 
frequency I'll have to re-do all of the tuning and I don't have time. 
When I get a bit more time I'll have a go.

Thanks,
Les


Peter C. Wallace wrote:
>
>
>
> Depending on the mechanical frequency response of your system, you may be 
> able 
> to get a little better performance by speeding up the servo thread. This will 
> improve the phase margins of the system, possibly allowing a bit more gain 
> (and damping to go with it). A very rough rule of thumb is to have the 
> sample rate (servo thread rate in this case) 10 to 30 times the mechanical 
> frequency response.
>
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Jon,

8 counts is 0.0098mm or 0.00038".  Steady state is within 1 count 
(0.00122mm). I'm happy with that.

Les

Jon Elson wrote:
>
> Well, what is 8 counts in real units?  If you have coarse encoders, it 
> could be a lot, if your encoders have very fine resolution, then that is 
> wonderful!
>
> Jon
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

Chris Radek wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 04:28:23PM +0100, Leslie Newell wrote:
>  
>> Watching GPIO 28 with halmeter I can see the index so the hardware is 
>> working correctly, going TRUE when the index is active.
>> When I home, it appears to ignore the index completely. The machine hits 
>> the home switch, backs off then stops almost immediately when the switch 
>> breaks, ignoring the index.
>> Watching axis.0.index-enable with halmeter I see it go TRUE for a moment 
>> when the switch releases then almost immedaitely FALSE again.
> 
> index-enable is set true by the motion controller when it wants to
> start the index search (this will be after finding the switch), then
> it is set false by the hardware/driver when index is found.  The time
> the index-enable is true is the search time.
> 
> I think it's actually working.  Your index might be closer to your
> switch than you expect, so you think it's not reading it.

This was my first guess as well.  Les, can you tell us what part of this 
behavior you think is wrong?


> What is GPIO 28?  I don't understand this part.

GPIO 28 is the I/O pin used for Index for encoder #5 on the firmware Les 
is using.  He's watching the raw value on the input pin, bypassing the 
encoder, to verify that his wiring is correct.




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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Leslie Newell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:40:09 +0100
> From: Leslie Newell 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning
> 
> After a bit of playing around I am within about +/- 8 counts, no matter
> what I throw at it. Feeds are within about 6 counts. Grabbing hold of
> the servo shaft and trying to turn it by hand as hard as I can deflects
> the position by about 8 counts before it returns to 0.
>
> I first tuned PID as good as I could get then turned I down to 0 and the
> other two down to about 20%. I then set up FF1 and FF2 to give the
> minimum following error. Finally I turned P,I,D back up to their
> previous values.
>
> I think that is pretty much as good as I am going to get.
>
> Les


Depending on the mechanical frequency response of your system, you may be able 
to get a little better performance by speeding up the servo thread. This will 
improve the phase margins of the system, possibly allowing a bit more gain 
(and damping to go with it). A very rough rule of thumb is to have the 
sample rate (servo thread rate in this case) 10 to 30 times the mechanical 
frequency response.

>
> --
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Peter Wallace
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Jon Elson]

Leslie Newell wrote:
> After a bit of playing around I am within about +/- 8 counts, no matter 
> what I throw at it. Feeds are within about 6 counts. Grabbing hold of 
> the servo shaft and trying to turn it by hand as hard as I can deflects 
> the position by about 8 counts before it returns to 0.
>
> I first tuned PID as good as I could get then turned I down to 0 and the 
> other two down to about 20%. I then set up FF1 and FF2 to give the 
> minimum following error. Finally I turned P,I,D back up to their 
> previous values.
>
> I think that is pretty much as good as I am going to get.
>
>   
Well, what is 8 counts in real units?  If you have coarse encoders, it 
could be a lot, if your encoders have very fine resolution, then that is 
wonderful!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Jon Elson]

Leslie Newell wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> BINGO! You win the prize ;-)
>
> A newbie mistake on my part - I had read just before write. Putting read 
> at the beginning fixed the problem. Now I realize what is happening, the 
> I problem makes sense as it is effectively 1 cycle behind where it 
> thinks it is.
>
>   
OHh!  Never even THOUGHT of that!  Glad there is somebody smart 
enough to guess the problem!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Chris Radek wrote:

> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:13:07 -0500
> From: Chris Radek 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing
> 
> On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 04:28:23PM +0100, Leslie Newell wrote:
>
>> Watching GPIO 28 with halmeter I can see the index so the hardware is
>> working correctly, going TRUE when the index is active.
>> When I home, it appears to ignore the index completely. The machine hits
>> the home switch, backs off then stops almost immediately when the switch
>> breaks, ignoring the index.
>> Watching axis.0.index-enable with halmeter I see it go TRUE for a moment
>> when the switch releases then almost immedaitely FALSE again.
>
>
> index-enable is set true by the motion controller when it wants to
> start the index search (this will be after finding the switch), then
> it is set false by the hardware/driver when index is found.  The time
> the index-enable is true is the search time.
>
> I think it's actually working.  Your index might be closer to your
> switch than you expect, so you think it's not reading it.
>
> What is GPIO 28?  I don't understand this part.
>

Might also be that the index is inverted so its "detected" as soon as its 
enabled by EMC detecting the home switch...

>
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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Chris Radek]

On Thu, Jul 09, 2009 at 04:28:23PM +0100, Leslie Newell wrote:
 
> Watching GPIO 28 with halmeter I can see the index so the hardware is 
> working correctly, going TRUE when the index is active.
> When I home, it appears to ignore the index completely. The machine hits 
> the home switch, backs off then stops almost immediately when the switch 
> breaks, ignoring the index.
> Watching axis.0.index-enable with halmeter I see it go TRUE for a moment 
> when the switch releases then almost immedaitely FALSE again.


index-enable is set true by the motion controller when it wants to
start the index search (this will be after finding the switch), then
it is set false by the hardware/driver when index is found.  The time
the index-enable is true is the search time.

I think it's actually working.  Your index might be closer to your
switch than you expect, so you think it's not reading it.

What is GPIO 28?  I don't understand this part.


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Re: [Emc-users] Axis Plot Screen

[Jim Wilkin]

Thank you gentlemen . That was my oversight.

sam sokolik wrote:
> In  the display setting of the ini file you can use the GEOMETRY setting 
> to make axis backplot correct for your machine.
> 
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BDISPLAY%5D-section
> 
> GEOMETRY = XYZABCUVW
> Controls the preview and backplot of rotary motion. This item
> consists of a sequence of axis letters, optionally preceded by a "-"
> sign. Only axes defined in [TRAJ]AXES should be used. This sequence
> specifies the order in which the effect of each axis is applied,
> with a "-" inverting the sense of the rotation or translation.
> The proper GEOMETRY string depends on the machine configuration and
> the kinematics used to control it. The example string
> GEOMETRY=XYZBCUVW is for a 5-axis machine where kinematics causes
> UVW to move in the coordinate system of the tool and XYZ to move in
> the coordinate system of the material. The order of the letters is
> important, because it expresses the order in which the different
> transformations are applied
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy Pugh wrote:
>> 2009/7/8 Jim Wilkin :
>>
>>   
>>> Just got my a axis going and noticed that the Axis plot screen doesn't
>>> show the A axis.
>>> 
>> I noticed the same thing, but decided it was probably deliberate, as I
>> can't imagine how you would show the A axis movement without knowing
>> the absolute position and direction of the centre of rotation of A
>> relative to the other axes.
>>
>>   
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[Emc-users] 5axhydrotelgui.py

[Stuart Stevenson]

Gentlemen,
   Here is  a colorized and rewritten gui file for the cinci 5axis. If
you have downloaded the previous you will want to get this one as it
makes it pretty. :)

www.mpm1.com:8080/5axhydrotelgui.py

thanks
Stuart


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Terry,

Actually it is very low. I am using millimeters. At the moment I have it 
set to one count.

Les


Terry wrote:
> Glad you got it figured out Leslie.
>
> Is your Deadband .0001? That seems kind of high
> But I forgot encoder count is. 
> I had some good results lowering mine 
> below one count,it had more of an effect
> than I thought it would.
>
> Sure glad you got it going.
>
>
> Terry
>   


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[Emc-users] Hostmot2 homing

[Leslie Newell]

Now I have the motor tuning sorted out and here is my next problem...

I am using hostmot2 and trying to use index and home switch. My setup is 
as follows:
hm2 configuration:
loadrt driver=hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SV12.BIT num_encoders=6 
num_pwmgens=6 num_stepgens=0"

net xinex-en axis.0.index-enable 
hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.index-enable
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.counter-mode 0
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.filter 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.index-invert 0
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.index-mask 0
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.05.index-mask-invert 0


My axis homing settings are as follows:
HOME = 230
HOME_OFFSET = 230
HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 30.00
HOME_LATCH_VEL = -1.000
HOME_USE_INDEX = YES
HOME_SEQUENCE = 0
note I am using millimeters.

Watching GPIO 28 with halmeter I can see the index so the hardware is 
working correctly, going TRUE when the index is active.
When I home, it appears to ignore the index completely. The machine hits 
the home switch, backs off then stops almost immediately when the switch 
breaks, ignoring the index.
Watching axis.0.index-enable with halmeter I see it go TRUE for a moment 
when the switch releases then almost immedaitely FALSE again.

Les


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Terry]

Glad you got it figured out Leslie.

Is your Deadband .0001? That seems kind of high
But I forgot encoder count is. 
I had some good results lowering mine 
below one count,it had more of an effect
than I thought it would.

Sure glad you got it going.


Terry





On Thu Jul  9  8:40 , Leslie Newell  sent:

>After a bit of playing around I am within about +/- 8 counts, no matter 
>what I throw at it. Feeds are within about 6 counts. Grabbing hold of 
>the servo shaft and trying to turn it by hand as hard as I can deflects 
>the position by about 8 counts before it returns to 0.
>
>I first tuned PID as good as I could get then turned I down to 0 and the 
>other two down to about 20%. I then set up FF1 and FF2 to give the 
>minimum following error. Finally I turned P,I,D back up to their 
>previous values.
>
>I think that is pretty much as good as I am going to get.
>
>Les
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

After a bit of playing around I am within about +/- 8 counts, no matter 
what I throw at it. Feeds are within about 6 counts. Grabbing hold of 
the servo shaft and trying to turn it by hand as hard as I can deflects 
the position by about 8 counts before it returns to 0.

I first tuned PID as good as I could get then turned I down to 0 and the 
other two down to about 20%. I then set up FF1 and FF2 to give the 
minimum following error. Finally I turned P,I,D back up to their 
previous values.

I think that is pretty much as good as I am going to get.

Les

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Alex,

BINGO! You win the prize ;-)

A newbie mistake on my part - I had read just before write. Putting read 
at the beginning fixed the problem. Now I realize what is happening, the 
I problem makes sense as it is effectively 1 cycle behind where it 
thinks it is.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and help.

Les

Alex Joni wrote:
> What's your SERVO_THREAD rate?
> Are you sure that the functions are in the correct order added to the servo 
> thread?
> (e.g. first read inputs, encoders, perform motion stuff, pid, output)?
> We can check if you can pastebin a "halcmd show all" while emc2 is running.
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>   


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Alex Joni]

What's your SERVO_THREAD rate?
Are you sure that the functions are in the correct order added to the servo 
thread?
(e.g. first read inputs, encoders, perform motion stuff, pid, output)?
We can check if you can pastebin a "halcmd show all" while emc2 is running.

Regards,
Alex



> Hi Jon,
>
> I am using pid. I tried at_pid but it is exactly the same.
>
> Les
>
> Jon Elson wrote:
>
>> I'm beginning to suspect there has been a change in the way PID works,
>> either due to hostmot2 or
>> the version of EMC you and I are using.  Do you use the normal PID
>> component (loadrt pid num_chan=4)?
>>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning

[Leslie Newell]

Hi Jon,

I am using pid. I tried at_pid but it is exactly the same.

Les

Jon Elson wrote:

> I'm beginning to suspect there has been a change in the way PID works, 
> either due to hostmot2 or
> the version of EMC you and I are using.  Do you use the normal PID 
> component (loadrt pid num_chan=4)?
>

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Re: [Emc-users] How to boot from USB without CD-Rom

[Luc Claeys]

Hi

> Does anybody how to prepare USB-drive for booting without CD-Rom? I did
> some trials according to some tutorials, but it fails. BIOS detects the
> USB but it hangs up without any error.

If you Google for
  Linux "Boot from USB"
you will find lots of detailed descriptions.

  http://www.google.com/search?q=Linux+%22Boot+from+USB%22&;

Luc


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[Emc-users] How to boot from USB without CD-Rom

[bernd]

Hi group!

Does anybody how to prepare USB-drive for booting without CD-Rom? I did
some trials according to some tutorials, but it fails. BIOS detects the
USB but it hangs up without any error.

Thanks
bernd



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