Re: [Emc-users] splash geometry
On Mon, 2010-11-22 at 20:28 -0600, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > that is the gcode program > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Kirk Wallace > wrote: > > > On Mon, 2010-11-22 at 17:55 -0600, Stuart Stevenson wrote: > > > Gentlemen, > > > Where would I find the geometry for the EMC2.4/AXIS splash? > > > thanks > > > Stuart It would be a big help if you asked the question that I was answering. :) -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: leaving stepppers energized but not moving
On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 18:58 -0400, Christopher Purcell wrote: > Having lately found the Run from line # feature in Axis to be so useful, I > now am > guilty of stopping a violin carving job on my 3 axis wood router, and > continuing the next day, or the one after that, etc... > Is there any risk to leaving steppers energized, but not not moving? > > The motors remain barely warm to the touch, as they are bolted to plenty of > heat sinking material. > I am thinking this is much safer than leaving the job to run unattended, > which for sure could burn the house down, if anything goes wrong. > > christopherpurc...@mac.com You could do a complete shut down, then touch-off on a known surface when you start the job up again. Or, have a home switch and lead screw flag on each axis to get an accurate home. As long as your workpiece doesn't move relative to the table, you should be okay, or am I off base here. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Thanks John and All; It appears NTP solves the clock drift problem in Linux systems, completely. As soon as I can ferret out the HAL bits and pieces needed to keep the generator synced to the PC clock, this problem is solved. Any clues of the bits and pieces needed would give me a great jump start. Sincere Thanks Don On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:17 AM, John Kasunich wrote: > Do you have internet access at the site? > > If you are running an PC for EMC, you can use NTP to keep > the PC's clock synced to the rest of the world, and some HAL > bits and pieces to keep the generator synced to the PC > clock. EMC's encoder component could easily count 60Hz. > > > On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:11 -0500, "Don Stanley" > wrote: > > Hi All; > > My next project is a remote off grid 60 HZ power unit. > > I am thinking of a EMC2 PID to control the RPM. > > I am also expecting maybe a 1-2 HZ momentary shift as the > > big power loads come on and off line. > > > > I am looking for a method to get a reliable reference that can be used to > > average 60 HZ through the power surges and correct a local timer drift > > for long term accuracy. A simple WWV corrected timer > > (a Wall mart Atomic clock with outputs). > > Anyone know of such a device? > > > > Thanks > > Don > > > -- > > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > > grabs. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > John Kasunich > jmkasun...@fastmail.fm > > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Przemek Klosowski wrote: > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > > >> The GPS system has atomic clocks accurate to some insane level like one >> second in 10,000 years. They have to periodically adjust the clocks for >> relativistic >> effects. >> > > NIST runs the master clocks for the system from Boulder, and keeps > improving them. The most recent generation uses single Aluminum ion, > and is accurate to 1s in over 3 billion years. Right, and the clocks on board the GPS satellites are periodically reset from the NIST master clocks. The time standards carried on board the satellites are not this accurate, but are still Rubidium atomic clocks, and WAYYY more accurate than anything us mere mortals can afford. At least, that is the way the system used to be set up, there might have been updates since. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Edward Bernard wrote: > Does this mean the "smart grid" we have heard so much about is just a pipe > dream? > Smart grid has absolutely nothing to do with stability of large electrical grid systems. Smart grid is mostly related to having individual appliances able to be turned off at peak load times, and giving customers a credit for doing that. There is some worry, I think, about all the non-linear loads that draw constant power over a range of voltages. In cases of extreme shortage of generating capacity, they used to do "brownouts" where they would reduce voltage, and incandescent and heating loads would be reduced. Compact fluorescents, motors on VFDs, computers, etc. all will draw constant power during a brownout, and they look a lot less resistive also, so may be less absorptive to network instability (less damping). Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Jack Coats wrote: > In the old days I worked on IBM mainframes, and a small mainframe (4341 if I > remember right) had a generator > set to help isolate the power. A crazy friend of mine bought a pair of 370-145 "mainframes" that were retired at our work. We tore one apart for parts, and actually tried to get the other one working. They had a 17 KVA motor generator set in the back, that converted 208 3 phase 60 Hz power to 115 V 3 phase 415 Hz power. I guess that means a 2-pole induction motor turning a 14-pole alternator at about 3560 RPM. Unfortunately, his small house had only a 60 A 240 V service, and we were never able to get the motor up to delta connection without tripping his main breaker. So, important digital loads on the machine ran off the MG set, but the cooling fans, floppy drive motor and front panel lights ran off the 60 Hz power. The power supplies were quite small for linear supplies. They had 3-phase transformer-rectifiers, and then a thing they called an electronic capacitor. During the line peaks they shunted current through a big inductor, then turned this off during the dips between cycles. This allowed them to use a TINY capacitor for a pretty hefty supply, like 5 V at 300 A. The 370/145 was an insanely primitive minicomputer running an amazingly "vertical" microcode emulation of the 370 instruction set, and the performance showed it. They ran VM/370 and a bunch of MVS and TSO systems under it. It generally took them 45 minutes to an hour to bring all these OSes back up after a crash. TOTAL insanity. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > The GPS system has atomic clocks accurate to some insane level like one > second in 10,000 years. They have to periodically adjust the clocks for > relativistic > effects. NIST runs the master clocks for the system from Boulder, and keeps improving them. The most recent generation uses single Aluminum ion, and is accurate to 1s in over 3 billion years. This is so sensitive that when the latest clock was being tested it showed a discrepancy which at first got everyone worried, but then turned out to be the result of a 17 cm elevation difference between it and the previous clock used for reference. The clock instrument scientists wrote a nice Science paper on general relativistic effects of Earth gravitational field: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5999/1630.abstract http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2447.pdf -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
- Original Message From: Jon Elson To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 12:24:47 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average. Experts have tried to model the whole grid, and found it to be very nearly mathematically intractable. Resistance and leakage inductance in transformers, etc. are the only thing keeping the grid (barely) stable. Jon Does this mean the "smart grid" we have heard so much about is just a pipe dream? -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: leaving stepppers energized but not moving
On 23 November 2010 22:58, Christopher Purcell wrote: > > Having lately found the Run from line # feature in Axis to be so useful, I > now am > guilty of stopping a violin carving job on my 3 axis wood router, and > continuing the next day Setting feed-hold (or feed-override to zero) might be better. Generally stopped steppers get hotter than moving steppers, but that does rather depend on the drives. Some reduce the current when stopped. -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: leaving stepppers energized but not moving
Having lately found the Run from line # feature in Axis to be so useful, I now am guilty of stopping a violin carving job on my 3 axis wood router, and continuing the next day, or the one after that, etc... Is there any risk to leaving steppers energized, but not not moving? The motors remain barely warm to the touch, as they are bolted to plenty of heat sinking material. I am thinking this is much safer than leaving the job to run unattended, which for sure could burn the house down, if anything goes wrong. christopherpurc...@mac.com -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Sounds just like the data centre I ran the services for - except that we used ICL mainframes yuk!! Ian On 23/11/2010 18:55, Jack Coats wrote: > I helped build a 'small data center', we put in 3 1MW diesel generators to > feed two 1MW APC UPSes, that ran > the data center. The AC ran off of the diesel generators and grid power. > We ran full time off the APC UPSes, > and if the commercial power failed, we automatically brought up all 3 > generators. Assuming one would fail, > the others could carry the full load. If one did not fail, the one with the > longest run time in the logs would be > shout down. The UPSes were big enough to run the data center at full load > for about 20 minutes, but it should > be no more than 60 seconds before we were on generator power if commercial > failed, or was out for more than a few > moments. > > In the old days I worked on IBM mainframes, and a small mainframe (4341 if I > remember right) had a generator > set to help isolate the power. Internal to that machine the generator set > generated 400Hz, but we fed it from our > commercial building power into the generator. It was not mechanically > efficient, but it kept the machine going. > The HVAC was on regular building power. ,,, Even at larger datacenters where > I worked, the idea was enough > building UPS to keep the computer and networking going. The UPS and > building HVAC and a few essential > services were powered by the generator sets if commercial power died, and we > tried to have power fed from two > or more separate sub-stations linked to different parts of the 'grid'. One > side on the same 'grid feed' as a local > hospital or two if possible ... their power seems to get fixed first :) ... > but at the ones where I was, no major > fly wheel storage or things like that. > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App& Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base& get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3274 - Release Date: 11/23/10 > > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Intel Atom with a FPGA.
Isn't this just what folks like tose on the RepRap project are starting to do with the Arduino Mega? One interesting arm of this project is the RepRap Hydra branch where the machine being made incorporates both a 3D printer and a milling head to either refine the printed part or work independantly. All the G-code instructions and complicated parts of the driving system are contained in the Arduino memory and all the PC needs to do is pass the list of instructions to the Arduino via USB. Seems a very interesting way to go to me, espacially as parallel ports are getting scarcer and scarcer. Ian _ Ian W. Wright Sheffield UK On 23/11/2010 17:48, Speaker To-Dirt wrote: > Do you know what this means? > > http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/11/23/0642238/Intel-Launches-Atom-CPU-With-Integrated-FPGA?from=rss > > Change the real time engine of EMC2 into a FPGA image and run the real time > parts of EMC2 is real, real time. If they provide a header for direct access > to the FPGA core and don't require us to go through the NorthBridge, memory > bus, then PCI bus to get at the data, it would mean we could have real time > motion control tied to a real clock with the CPU free to do other things and > not being tied up serving requests from the real time engine and the rest of > Linux. > > I'm no expert on RTAI or EMC2. But I may be to take advantage of this. I use > FPGA's for camera controllers and let me tell you they allow you to do some > amazing things and for a class of problems it's like turning the world upside > down. > > Andrew > > > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App& Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base& get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3274 - Release Date: 11/23/10 > > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Igor Chudov wrote: > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: >> On 23 November 2010 16:52, Dave wrote: >> >>> Apparently there is a large DC inverter station out in the northwest?? >>> that is used to allow different synchronization of the grids >> >> I think that might be to prevent the US grid being a rather efficient >> antenna and radiating half the energy into space. >> >> 60Hz x speed of light = 3000 miles. > > But, but, the wires usually go in pairs (or threes for three phase), > would that not cancel out the antenna effects? Common configuration of HV lines returns through earth, to save the cost of wire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid
On 23 November 2010 21:07, Lars Andersson wrote: > > Seems I'm in the wrong place (kern vs. user), this looks better (but not > good) 25k isn't stellar, but is perfectly usable. You can drive a stepper at 3000rpm with x4 microstepping at that. -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid
Seems I'm in the wrong place (kern vs. user), this looks better (but not good) ## RTAI latency calibration tool ## # period = 10 (ns) # average time = 1 (s) # use the FPU # start the timer # timer_mode is oneshot RTAI Testsuite - USER latency (all data in nanoseconds) 2010/11/23 22:01:43 RTH|lat min|ovl min|lat avg|lat max|ovl max| overruns RTD| -482| -482| -102| 10336| 10336| 0 RTD| -328| -482|-32| 5855| 10336| 0 RTD| -334| -482|-45| 10302| 10336| 0 RTD| -330| -482|-81| 23673| 23673| 0 RTD| -337| -482|-69| 11448| 23673| 0 RTD| -357| -482| -163| 4865| 23673| 0 RTD| -330| -482|-65| 11564| 23673| 0 RTD| -327| -482|-18| 10560| 23673| 0 RTD| -335| -482|-64| 11562| 23673| 0 RTD| -335| -482|-41| 10919| 23673| 0 RTD| -328| -482|-71| 25069| 25069| 0 RTD| -328| -482|-39| 10947| 25069| 0 RTD| -335| -482|-49| 11529| 25069| 0 RTD| -330| -482|-61| 25220| 25220| 0 RTD| -325| -482|-33| 8491| 25220| 0 RTD| -322| -482|-28| 9991| 25220| 0 RTD| -326| -482|-57| 9416| 25220| 0 RTD| -332| -482|-62| 8797| 25220| 0 > -Original Message- > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk] > Sent: den 23 november 2010 19:39 > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid > > On 23 November 2010 18:14, Lars Andersson > wrote: > > > Did a lot of googling on that, I am afraid I don't understand what > > "software-only openGL" is but I would like to try it. Any pointers > please? > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi- > bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Installing_Software_based_OpenGL > > But I am not especially optimistic. > > -- > atp > > --- > --- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid
Thanks, I did read that document but missed it. Now when I run the GUI version of latency test it is stable below 30 000 but when I run the testsuite version it is different, (and to me unreadable): ## RTAI latency calibration tool ## # period = 10 (ns) # avrgtime = 1 (s) # do not use the FPU # start the timer # timer_mode is oneshot RTAI Testsuite - KERNEL latency (all data in nanoseconds) RTH|lat min|ovl min|lat avg|lat max|ovl max| overruns RTD| -1365| -1365|199|2083252|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1357| -1365| -1178| -367|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1367| -1367| -1191| 4123|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1367| -1367| -1167| 1047|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1360| -1367| -1187| -695|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1366| -1367| -1238| -100|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1370| -1370| -1186| -519|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1360| -1370| -1202|257|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1360| -1370| -1192| -423|2083252| 8329 RTD| -1364| -1370| -1190| -719|2083252| 8329 Doesn't look so good does it? > -Original Message- > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk] > Sent: den 23 november 2010 19:39 > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid > > On 23 November 2010 18:14, Lars Andersson > wrote: > > > Did a lot of googling on that, I am afraid I don't understand what > > "software-only openGL" is but I would like to try it. Any pointers > please? > > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi- > bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Installing_Software_based_OpenGL > > But I am not especially optimistic. > > -- > atp > > --- > --- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for > grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
I helped build a 'small data center', we put in 3 1MW diesel generators to feed two 1MW APC UPSes, that ran the data center. The AC ran off of the diesel generators and grid power. We ran full time off the APC UPSes, and if the commercial power failed, we automatically brought up all 3 generators. Assuming one would fail, the others could carry the full load. If one did not fail, the one with the longest run time in the logs would be shout down. The UPSes were big enough to run the data center at full load for about 20 minutes, but it should be no more than 60 seconds before we were on generator power if commercial failed, or was out for more than a few moments. In the old days I worked on IBM mainframes, and a small mainframe (4341 if I remember right) had a generator set to help isolate the power. Internal to that machine the generator set generated 400Hz, but we fed it from our commercial building power into the generator. It was not mechanically efficient, but it kept the machine going. The HVAC was on regular building power. ,,, Even at larger datacenters where I worked, the idea was enough building UPS to keep the computer and networking going. The UPS and building HVAC and a few essential services were powered by the generator sets if commercial power died, and we tried to have power fed from two or more separate sub-stations linked to different parts of the 'grid'. One side on the same 'grid feed' as a local hospital or two if possible ... their power seems to get fixed first :) ... but at the ones where I was, no major fly wheel storage or things like that. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
At one time I heard there were legal reasons that caused the 'grid' to keep frequency long term stable. This is why AC clocks are basically 'never off', the frequency does vary, but within 24 hours they still must have generated the same number of 'cycles'. This allows them to 'slow' the cycles or 'speed up' a bit, but still counting cycles over a long period is what makes it appears so frequency stable. ... just my thoughts. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid
On 23 November 2010 18:14, Lars Andersson wrote: > Did a lot of googling on that, I am afraid I don't understand what > "software-only openGL" is but I would like to try it. Any pointers please? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Installing_Software_based_OpenGL But I am not especially optimistic. -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Keeping exactly 60Hz isn't that critical. The real timing is being done by crystals and the clock can be set using a little GPS or even easier NTP software if you have reasonable internet access. Are you considering staying in sync if commercial power fails? For computer loads UPSes are great, but their frequency does drift a little. For industrial applications (like EMC2 :) even if it is 'home industry' ) exact timing doesn't matter, unless you are planning on 'grid tie' your shop to the grid. Then you should look into the 'grid tie' hardware that the solar and wind folks use. They have been doing it for a long time now (10+ years) and have it down. Personally I would like to have a 'off the grid' shop. Solar for lights and light work, kick in a generator when 'real power' is needed, and as an optional battery recharger. I guess it is just the little bit of 'green geek' in me that wants that. But since I don't have a 'shop' I can dream. Practicality says that building it and tie it to the grid and just pay the bills makes the most economic sense in the short to mid-term (2 to 10 years) to me. -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Dave wrote: > Interesting. > > Apparently there is a large DC inverter station out in the northwest?? > that is used to allow different synchronization of the grids in the > eastern US with the western US or across some other regional divide. > > Sort of like a giant AC drive taken to an entirely different level.. ;-) > > My understanding is that most of the time the Eastern and Western grids are not tied, but that during shortages, they can interconnect that way. Many years ago, maybe in the 1960's or so, they tried a direct AC interconnect across the Hoover Dam, which bridges the two grids. The system became unstable, as they had two big pools with a HUGE length of transmission lines between them, thus a large inductor between what acted somewhat like two big capacitors. They developed a large amount of reactive power flowing back and forth between the two systems at a rate of a couple Hz, or maybe it was below one Hz. Anyway, they later installed a huge cycloconverter that could couple the two systems without regard to phase angle, and send power whichever way it was needed. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Ian W. Wright wrote: > > Yes, you're right but I'm not sure how close they ahere to > that nowadays. With the common frequency dips due to load > problems and the tendency for people to convert to quartz > timing instead of mains synchronous, I wonder if they bother > so much or whether they just try to get it right weekly or > some such. Maybe I'll put a mains frequency monitor on here > out of interest - its 13 years since I retired from the > ratrace of chasing power around plant rooms.. > > We have several line-synched electronic clocks here, and they all keep excellent time. So, it seems the utility here (and thus, the entire midwest-US electric grid) maintains very good long-term synch. In fact, these line-sync clocks are more accurate than the clocks in some of my computers that do not have NTP running to correct their drift. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Ian W. Wright wrote: > John, > > I think Andy was assuming that this power generator would be > backup for mains outages when, if the switchover were to be > automatic and seamless, If you want seamless transfer to emergency power, then the alternator needs to be online all the time. For big data centers, they have electronic UPS's and flywheel energy storage, but that is not really practical for small users. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Leslie Newell wrote: > Generally they adjust the frequency throughout the day. As the load on > the system increases the frequency drops. To increase the frequency they > bring more generators on line. If the frequency gets too high they > reduce the generating capacity. The really tricky bit is matching > generating capacity to the load well enough to maintain a reasonably > accurate 50/60Hz > The power stations are self-synched to the overall grid. Opening the throttle on the turbines acts to increase frequency, but due to the enormous stiffness of all the alternators, many of the throttles have to be opened wider and then the frequency starts to rise very slowly. So, it is a VERY tricky and slightly unstable network. You can measure the effect of each individual alternator by measuring the phase angle between current and voltage, although that gets complicated by the excitation level of the alternator. Reducing field excitation causes the alternator to produce current that lags the voltage, like an induction motor, and increasing the excitation causes current to lead the voltage. Experts have tried to model the whole grid, and found it to be very nearly mathematically intractable. Resistance and leakage inductance in transformers, etc. are the only thing keeping the grid (barely) stable. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 23 November 2010 16:52, Dave wrote: > >> Apparently there is a large DC inverter station out in the northwest?? >> that is used to allow different synchronization of the grids in the >> eastern US with the western US or across some other regional divide. > > I think that might be to prevent the US grid being a rather efficient > antenna and radiating half the energy into space. > > 60Hz x speed of light = 3000 miles. But, but, the wires usually go in pairs (or threes for three phase), would that not cancel out the antenna effects? i -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Andy Pugh wrote: > Doesn't it need to be synched to mains frequency rather than absolute > time? How accurate is NTP (or even GPS time) in this context? > ... > The GPS system has atomic clocks accurate to some insane level like one second in 10,000 years. They have to periodically adjust the clocks for relativistic effects. The satellites transmit time to receivers on earth, and the time code system can resolve the broadcast time to a nanosecond - literally. Then, after solving the equations for path delay from several satellites, the position can be fixed, and so the real time on an arbitrary point on earth can be determined to great precision. NTP is supposed to be good to well within a second, assuming any decent net connection. On the other hand, unless this generator is extremely reliable and run 24/7 constantly for months, trying to sync electric clocks to it seems a poor choice. Maybe find a good computer with a good real time clock on it and have it "broadcast" time over a serial line to remote time displays. That's what I do here, and Linux even automatically corrects the time for daylight savings time twice a year. (I also have temperature and humidity sensors, so the displays show time, date, temp and humidity at convenient locations.) Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Migrating from Heron to Lucid
> -Original Message- > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk] - - > I think some people have found that switching to software-only openGL > has improved things, though mainly in the sense of not-crashing rather > than latency. - - Did a lot of googling on that, I am afraid I don't understand what "software-only openGL" is but I would like to try it. Any pointers please? -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 23 November 2010 16:52, Dave wrote: > Apparently there is a large DC inverter station out in the northwest?? > that is used to allow different synchronization of the grids in the > eastern US with the western US or across some other regional divide. I think that might be to prevent the US grid being a rather efficient antenna and radiating half the energy into space. 60Hz x speed of light = 3000 miles. -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Intel Atom with a FPGA.
Do you know what this means? http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/11/23/0642238/Intel-Launches-Atom-CPU-With-Integrated-FPGA?from=rss Change the real time engine of EMC2 into a FPGA image and run the real time parts of EMC2 is real, real time. If they provide a header for direct access to the FPGA core and don't require us to go through the NorthBridge, memory bus, then PCI bus to get at the data, it would mean we could have real time motion control tied to a real clock with the CPU free to do other things and not being tied up serving requests from the real time engine and the rest of Linux. I'm no expert on RTAI or EMC2. But I may be to take advantage of this. I use FPGA's for camera controllers and let me tell you they allow you to do some amazing things and for a class of problems it's like turning the world upside down. Andrew -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Interesting. Apparently there is a large DC inverter station out in the northwest?? that is used to allow different synchronization of the grids in the eastern US with the western US or across some other regional divide. Sort of like a giant AC drive taken to an entirely different level.. ;-) I remember finding it via a google lookup one time. Dave On 11/23/2010 11:25 AM, dave wrote: > 50 some years ago a couple of engineers came to Coulee from the Denver > office (USBR) and installed a mag amp in feed forward mode to control > the penstock gate on one of the small units. This was before the third > powerhouse so the units were all 108 Mw. This one unit was used to swing > the entire Northwest Power Pool ( OR, WA, ID, UT, and most of MT and > WY ). I don't have any quantitative figures but the frequency regulation > got 10X better. > > Dave > > On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 17:17 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: > >> I heard once (here in SA) that the mains cycles were adjusted close to >> midnight, so that the number remained consistent on a daily basis. I don't >> know how it's arranged though, since there are so many power stations to >> sync. >> >> Regards >> Roland >> >> >> >> >> On 23 November 2010 16:49, Ian W. Wright wrote: >> >> >>> On 23/11/2010 14:37, Andy Pugh wrote: >>> On 23 November 2010 14:31, Ian W. Wright >>> wrote: >>> > hell, I've seen our mains frequency > vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on > the load and no one ever complains... > Though supposedly you should still always get 432 cycles per day. >>> Yes, you're right but I'm not sure how close they ahere to >>> that nowadays. With the common frequency dips due to load >>> problems and the tendency for people to convert to quartz >>> timing instead of mains synchronous, I wonder if they bother >>> so much or whether they just try to get it right weekly or >>> some such. Maybe I'll put a mains frequency monitor on here >>> out of interest - its 13 years since I retired from the >>> ratrace of chasing power around plant rooms.. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App& Earn a Chance To Win $500! >>> Tap into the largest installed PC base& get more eyes on your game by >>> optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the >>> Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev >>> ___ >>> Emc-users mailing list >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >>> >>> >> -- >> Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App& Earn a Chance To Win $500! >> Tap into the largest installed PC base& get more eyes on your game by >> optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the >> Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App& Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base& get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
50 some years ago a couple of engineers came to Coulee from the Denver office (USBR) and installed a mag amp in feed forward mode to control the penstock gate on one of the small units. This was before the third powerhouse so the units were all 108 Mw. This one unit was used to swing the entire Northwest Power Pool ( OR, WA, ID, UT, and most of MT and WY ). I don't have any quantitative figures but the frequency regulation got 10X better. Dave On Tue, 2010-11-23 at 17:17 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: > I heard once (here in SA) that the mains cycles were adjusted close to > midnight, so that the number remained consistent on a daily basis. I don't > know how it's arranged though, since there are so many power stations to > sync. > > Regards > Roland > > > > > On 23 November 2010 16:49, Ian W. Wright wrote: > > > On 23/11/2010 14:37, Andy Pugh wrote: > > > On 23 November 2010 14:31, Ian W. Wright > > wrote: > > > > > >> hell, I've seen our mains frequency > > >> vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on > > >> the load and no one ever complains... > > > Though supposedly you should still always get 432 cycles per day. > > > > > Yes, you're right but I'm not sure how close they ahere to > > that nowadays. With the common frequency dips due to load > > problems and the tendency for people to convert to quartz > > timing instead of mains synchronous, I wonder if they bother > > so much or whether they just try to get it right weekly or > > some such. Maybe I'll put a mains frequency monitor on here > > out of interest - its 13 years since I retired from the > > ratrace of chasing power around plant rooms.. > > > > Ian > > > > > > -- > > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Generally they adjust the frequency throughout the day. As the load on the system increases the frequency drops. To increase the frequency they bring more generators on line. If the frequency gets too high they reduce the generating capacity. The really tricky bit is matching generating capacity to the load well enough to maintain a reasonably accurate 50/60Hz Les On 23/11/2010 15:17, Roland Jollivet wrote: > I heard once (here in SA) that the mains cycles were adjusted close to > midnight, so that the number remained consistent on a daily basis. I don't > know how it's arranged though, since there are so many power stations to > sync. > > Regards > Roland -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
I heard once (here in SA) that the mains cycles were adjusted close to midnight, so that the number remained consistent on a daily basis. I don't know how it's arranged though, since there are so many power stations to sync. Regards Roland On 23 November 2010 16:49, Ian W. Wright wrote: > On 23/11/2010 14:37, Andy Pugh wrote: > > On 23 November 2010 14:31, Ian W. Wright > wrote: > > > >> hell, I've seen our mains frequency > >> vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on > >> the load and no one ever complains... > > Though supposedly you should still always get 432 cycles per day. > > > Yes, you're right but I'm not sure how close they ahere to > that nowadays. With the common frequency dips due to load > problems and the tendency for people to convert to quartz > timing instead of mains synchronous, I wonder if they bother > so much or whether they just try to get it right weekly or > some such. Maybe I'll put a mains frequency monitor on here > out of interest - its 13 years since I retired from the > ratrace of chasing power around plant rooms.. > > Ian > > > -- > Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! > Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by > optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the > Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 23/11/2010 14:37, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 23 November 2010 14:31, Ian W. Wright wrote: > >> hell, I've seen our mains frequency >> vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on >> the load and no one ever complains... > Though supposedly you should still always get 432 cycles per day. > Yes, you're right but I'm not sure how close they ahere to that nowadays. With the common frequency dips due to load problems and the tendency for people to convert to quartz timing instead of mains synchronous, I wonder if they bother so much or whether they just try to get it right weekly or some such. Maybe I'll put a mains frequency monitor on here out of interest - its 13 years since I retired from the ratrace of chasing power around plant rooms.. Ian -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 11/23/2010 9:23 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 23 November 2010 14:06, John Kasunich wrote: > > >>> My next project is a remote off grid 60 HZ power unit. >>> >> I think this has nothing to do with transitions to/from utility >> power. >> > Ah, in that case, why does it matter? > > Not sure. Generally when generators take over after a power outage they don't try and maintain sync with the utility since the utility has no power on the lines to synch with. When the power comes back up, the generator speed is synced to the line and the transfer is made back to the utility. I remember back in college that we had a lab experiment in my power class where we did an actual manual power transfer to and from the utility lines with a generator. Back then they used 3 light bulbs connected L1 to L1, L2 to L2, L3 to L3 between the generator and the utility lines.When all three light bulbs went out the generator was in synch with the line and you could open and close the transfer switch. Some wise guy wanted to see what would happen if you threw the switch when things were out of sync.. so he threw the switch and we all got to hear the bang when the generator was pulled into sync by the utility. The professor was not amused.I distinctly remember that prof as he later tried to throw me out of college after I found he was using out of date materials and I was forced to confront him with it. Not my best college memory. Fortunately I prevailed, and the department chair assigned a different prof as my advisor. Dave -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 23 November 2010 14:31, Ian W. Wright wrote: > hell, I've seen our mains frequency > vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on > the load and no one ever complains... Though supposedly you should still always get 432 cycles per day. -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
Sounds like mainly he want his old 60cycle clocks to work correctly. :) sam On 11/23/2010 8:23 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: > On 23 November 2010 14:06, John Kasunich wrote: > >>> My next project is a remote off grid 60 HZ power unit. >> I think this has nothing to do with transitions to/from utility >> power. > Ah, in that case, why does it matter? > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
John, I think Andy was assuming that this power generator would be backup for mains outages when, if the switchover were to be automatic and seamless, it would indeed to essential to get the generator frequency very close to mains frequency and, more importantly, the phases in the correct rotational relationship before switch back to the mains. It took ages for the supplier's techs to get this right on the 2 x 1100Hp deisel gennys I had at work If this genny is to completely stand-alone off in the woods somewhere - I don't really see why it needs tying to any major time standard - what's going to power a PC while the genny gets up and running anyway? Normally engine governors or feedback electronics should keep the frequency within limits anyway - hell, I've seen our mains frequency vary from 47 to 54 Hz over the day many times depending on the load and no one ever complains... Ian _ Ian W. Wright Sheffield UK -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 23 November 2010 14:06, John Kasunich wrote: >> My next project is a remote off grid 60 HZ power unit. > > I think this has nothing to do with transitions to/from utility > power. Ah, in that case, why does it matter? -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:16 +, "Andy Pugh" wrote: > > Doesn't it need to be synched to mains frequency rather than absolute > time? (snip) > However, what is really needed is to keep synch with the local mains > during outages, (snip) > When the mains comes back you could use the PID to bring the generator > back in to phase before switching back over. The original poster wrote: > My next project is a remote off grid 60 HZ power unit. I think this has nothing to do with transitions to/from utility power. John -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] splash geometry
.. or maybe use truetype-tracer's dxf output mode if that provides a better input to the software you want to play with the path in. Jeff -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Seeking ideas how to sync an AC generator to 60 HZ average.
On 23 November 2010 05:17, John Kasunich wrote: > > Do you have internet access at the site? > > If you are running an PC for EMC, you can use NTP to keep > the PC's clock synced to the rest of the world Doesn't it need to be synched to mains frequency rather than absolute time? How accurate is NTP (or even GPS time) in this context? ... http://gpsinformation.net/main/gpstime.htm seems to think that is it close enough. However, what is really needed is to keep synch with the local mains during outages, and that might be better done by a local clock. You could potentially use siggen with a PID to correct phase, then lock the PID when mains voltage is lost. PID dosn't have a "lock" pin, so you would probably need to use a sample_hold. When the mains comes back you could use the PID to bring the generator back in to phase before switching back over. (and it probably wouldn't drift that much anyway) -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Reactor
Hello gentlemen, some 20 years ago I made some experiments with a DC-controlled adjustable inductor like that, we called it a varactor. Three of them were used in a large stabilized three-phase mains supply powered by giant vacuum tubes (50 to 100 kW or so). Those varactors were three legged iron monsters, looking like three phase transformers, where the two outer coils were magnetized with high voltage DC and the center coil carried very heavy square profile wire for the mains supply current. By applying DC from a separate supply it was possible to drive the iron into saturation, thus inhibiting the AC magnetic field and, as a result, the emf which in turn caused the output voltage and current to increase. A DC controllable choke, very elegant, I thought. I wanted to make a welding device from that setup which still is a sexy idea to me. But I found out that adjusting the output current was very touchy and tricky and, as I think now, only possible with a closed circuit control system, not so easy considering the high control voltage needed. The idea of having several hundred volts DC around in the shop working with partly gounded metal parts and grinding chips flying all over made me feel uneasy, anyway. After blowing the houses main fuses (400V, 50 A) several times I gave up experimenting and made more taps on the main transformer which would give steady results. Considering the weight of the whole setup I think a modern IGBT-inverter welding "transformer" would be better in every way. Best regards from foggy Bavaria Peter Blodow Leslie Newell schrieb: > Yes it does sound like a variable reactor setup. The control signal is > DC and pushes the core into saturation, reducing it's inductance. The > early BOSS Bridgeport CNC mills used this sort of setup to reduce the > idle current on the stepper motors. It also used to be quite commonly > used on TIG welders to control the output current. These days they do it > with electronics instead. > > Les > > > On 21/11/10 21:00, Kirk Wallace wrote: > >> I have what appears to be a transformer with a reactor in series with >> the secondary. The reactor is used to control the transformer output >> current. I can imagine the reactor will act like a normal inductor and >> impede the AC current, but the reactor has another coil on it. I assume >> this coil is used for current control and works by pushing the core into >> saturation. Is my assumption correct? Would the control signal would be >> DC or some sort of phase controlled signal? >> >> Control >> Signal? >>Pri Sec| | >> ---D " >> D " >> D " C--o >> Mains D " C Output >> D " C--o >> ---D " >> >> (Just for fun -- I found this link while looking for reactor >> information: >> http://books.google.com/books?id=mtwDMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA162#v=onepage&q&f=false >> Short URL http://alturl.com/owob4 ) >> >> >> > > > -- > Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports > standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3. > Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great > experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today > http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App & Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base & get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
