date:20120806

On 6 August 2012 04:37, Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote:

 How does it work? Would it measure the burn cycle pressure and adjust
 the injected fuel volume for appropriate pressure peak?

Yes, apart from the problem with fuel lubricity the main issue is that
the injection is open-loop. The injectors are opened for a known time
at a known fuel pressure, and that is assumed to inject the correct
quantity of fuel. With in-cylinder pressure transducers you can
directly measure the heat released (and the combustion temperature) so
actually know how much fuel has gone in and burned.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

On 6 August 2012 03:46,  ceen...@in-front.com wrote:

 My thought was to get a fairly low volume diesel direct injector (i.e. 1L to 
 2L 4-cyl diesel car) and grind away the lower section of the nozzle which has 
 the 6 or 8 pinholes to allow solder paste to exit a bit more freely.

You can't use a Diesel injector for that. Apart from problems with
viscosity the injectors are piloted, and _require_ 200bar to operate
the internal mechanism.
I suspect that some of the clearances are smaller than the solder
paste grains too.

Perhaps a peristaltic pump?

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Re: [Emc-users] geographic map

On 6 August 2012 02:04, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote:
 my bad once again ive asked for help without giving all info, the
 embedded client is what i am using. my humble apologies

That is a bit flaky. You could try updating your Java version, but
installing a proper IRC client is likely to be a better solution.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 Yea - at twice the CO2 emissions of my 1996 2.8 turbo!!

 Steve Blackmore

Then it's earth and plant friendly.  Plants need CO2 to live.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

2012-08-06 Thread Ron Ginger

On 8/5/2012 10:19 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
 13 posts without a response from ron in my nearly 1yr involvement here
 i dont think ive had a question that wasnt responded to in 5 post or
 less. I think you fellas here care about more than a dollar and the
 prompt service i dont pay for im very happy to get

The recent posts have all been statements of opinion, to which there is 
no useful response. We all are welcome to our own opinions.

I do not speak for Mach, I have a very minor bit part related to wizard 
support. All decisions are from Brian Barker. I follow this list because 
I am interested in the general area of CNC, specifically related to 
hobby users.

I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines 
bigger' variety.

ron ginger


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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

Since this is already an OT thread

Yes Mark plants need CO2 but politicians need money therefore we must learn
to pay them for natural occurring substances and acts.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net
 wrote:
 
  Yea - at twice the CO2 emissions of my 1996 2.8 turbo!!
 
  Steve Blackmore

 Then it's earth and plant friendly.  Plants need CO2 to live.

 Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

;-)  Considering the amount of C02 expelled by all the hot air that
issues forth from DC (which is where I'm currently sitting at my work
desk), one would think the politician's C02 generation should also be
taxed.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:
 Since this is already an OT thread

 Yes Mark plants need CO2 but politicians need money therefore we must learn
 to pay them for natural occurring substances and acts.

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net
 wrote:
 
  Yea - at twice the CO2 emissions of my 1996 2.8 turbo!!
 
  Steve Blackmore

 Then it's earth and plant friendly.  Plants need CO2 to live.

 Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

Brian,
I offer another opinion here.

This thread would have died a long time ago without your input. The driving
force for many of the responses is not the need to prove 'Mines bigger than
yours'. Everyone needs a little 'Comic relief' and jumped on this with a
smile to see where it would go.


I don't have a Mach system so I cannot offer a valid comment on the
comparison. My reason for not even trying Mach is it runs on Windows only.
In 1997/1998 I put three 5 axis MDSI controls on three 5 axis Cinci mills.
I purchased MDSI's API with the purpose of developing the functionality I
wished to see. I updated with them one time. The second update cycle was
when they announced the next version would be based on Windows only. I
called them and let them know I would not be putting Windows on any of my
machines. They not only would/could/did not reconsider, they claimed they
would no longer suppport the QNX versions. I have one machine running MDSI
on QNX, one machine broke mechanically and one is the LinuxCNC 5 axis Cinci.

Have a good day
Stuart


On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Ron Ginger rongin...@roadrunner.com wrote:

 On 8/5/2012 10:19 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
  13 posts without a response from ron in my nearly 1yr involvement here
  i dont think ive had a question that wasnt responded to in 5 post or
  less. I think you fellas here care about more than a dollar and the
  prompt service i dont pay for im very happy to get

 The recent posts have all been statements of opinion, to which there is
 no useful response. We all are welcome to our own opinions.

 I do not speak for Mach, I have a very minor bit part related to wizard
 support. All decisions are from Brian Barker. I follow this list because
 I am interested in the general area of CNC, specifically related to
 hobby users.

 I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines
 bigger' variety.

 ron ginger



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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

I don't know why I answered to Brian - It should have been Ron.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

 Brian,
 I offer another opinion here.

 This thread would have died a long time ago without your input. The
 driving force for many of the responses is not the need to prove 'Mines
 bigger than yours'. Everyone needs a little 'Comic relief' and jumped on
 this with a smile to see where it would go.


 I don't have a Mach system so I cannot offer a valid comment on the
 comparison. My reason for not even trying Mach is it runs on Windows only.
 In 1997/1998 I put three 5 axis MDSI controls on three 5 axis Cinci mills.
 I purchased MDSI's API with the purpose of developing the functionality I
 wished to see. I updated with them one time. The second update cycle was
 when they announced the next version would be based on Windows only. I
 called them and let them know I would not be putting Windows on any of my
 machines. They not only would/could/did not reconsider, they claimed they
 would no longer suppport the QNX versions. I have one machine running MDSI
 on QNX, one machine broke mechanically and one is the LinuxCNC 5 axis Cinci.

 Have a good day
 Stuart



 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Ron Ginger rongin...@roadrunner.comwrote:

 On 8/5/2012 10:19 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
  13 posts without a response from ron in my nearly 1yr involvement here
  i dont think ive had a question that wasnt responded to in 5 post or
  less. I think you fellas here care about more than a dollar and the
  prompt service i dont pay for im very happy to get

 The recent posts have all been statements of opinion, to which there is
 no useful response. We all are welcome to our own opinions.

 I do not speak for Mach, I have a very minor bit part related to wizard
 support. All decisions are from Brian Barker. I follow this list because
 I am interested in the general area of CNC, specifically related to
 hobby users.

 I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines
 bigger' variety.

 ron ginger



 --
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 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

Certainly, they have exempted themselves from any consequences.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 ;-)  Considering the amount of C02 expelled by all the hot air that
 issues forth from DC (which is where I'm currently sitting at my work
 desk), one would think the politician's C02 generation should also be
 taxed.

 Mark

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Since this is already an OT thread
 
  Yes Mark plants need CO2 but politicians need money therefore we must
 learn
  to pay them for natural occurring substances and acts.
 
  On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net
  wrote:
  
   Yea - at twice the CO2 emissions of my 1996 2.8 turbo!!
  
   Steve Blackmore
 
  Then it's earth and plant friendly.  Plants need CO2 to live.
 
  Mark
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

Most definitely.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:
 Certainly, they have exempted themselves from any consequences.

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 ;-)  Considering the amount of C02 expelled by all the hot air that
 issues forth from DC (which is where I'm currently sitting at my work
 desk), one would think the politician's C02 generation should also be
 taxed.

 Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

2012-08-06 Thread Roger Holmquist

 Well Mark, I don't think U should enter the Global Warming debate
 because the following truth has been thoroughly tested:
 
 1) Too little water kills a man.
 
 2) Too much water kills a man.
 
 
 
 
 I think it's still valid.
 
 / Roger
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Then it's earth and plant friendly. Plants need CO2 to live.
 
 Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

And that proves global warming is caused by man because...

Mark

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Roger Holmquist ro...@abcnc.se wrote:
 Well Mark, I don't think U should enter the Global Warming debate
 because the following truth has been thoroughly tested:

 1) Too little water kills a man.

 2) Too much water kills a man.




 I think it's still valid.

 / Roger

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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

2012-08-06 Thread John Kasunich



On Mon, Aug 6, 2012, at 08:31 AM, Roger Holmquist wrote:
  Well Mark, I don't think U should enter the Global Warming debate
  because the following truth has been thoroughly tested:
  
  1) Too little water kills a man.
  
  2) Too much water kills a man.

I don't think we should enter the Global Warming debate for
three reasons:

1) It is off-topic.

2) It is a hot-button issue and will result in LOTS of
off-topic messages, not just one or two.

3) Some of us use the shop (and shop talk) as a way to avoid
politics and disputes, please don't bring them here.

Thanks for your consideration,

-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm


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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 I don't think we should enter the Global Warming debate for
 three reasons:

 1) It is off-topic.

 2) It is a hot-button issue and will result in LOTS of
 off-topic messages, not just one or two.

 3) Some of us use the shop (and shop talk) as a way to avoid
 politics and disputes, please don't bring them here.

 Thanks for your consideration,

 --
   John Kasunich
   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

Sorry about that John.  You are absolutely right.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

The recent posts have all been statements of opinion, to which there is
no useful response. We all are welcome to our own opinions.

Uh... I don't think so..  restating what I have said:

Fact - Mach3 V4 has been under development for 4 years.

Fact - Mach3 V4 has missed many release dates.

Bullshit - Mach4, as it will ship, has only been underway since the first of 
this
year

Fact - Mach V3 has been a static/stagnant product for years.


I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines
bigger' variety.


Now yours might be bigger than mine, or mine might be bigger than yours (What 
does this have to do with CNC/Mach3/Fanuc/LinuxCNC etc ?? ),
but a wise man knows when to bow out of an argument they will lose.

Touche!  ;-)

Dave






On 8/6/2012 6:42 AM, Ron Ginger wrote:
 On 8/5/2012 10:19 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:

 13 posts without a response from ron in my nearly 1yr involvement here
 i dont think ive had a question that wasnt responded to in 5 post or
 less. I think you fellas here care about more than a dollar and the
 prompt service i dont pay for im very happy to get
  
 The recent posts have all been statements of opinion, to which there is
 no useful response. We all are welcome to our own opinions.

 I do not speak for Mach, I have a very minor bit part related to wizard
 support. All decisions are from Brian Barker. I follow this list because
 I am interested in the general area of CNC, specifically related to
 hobby users.

 I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines
 bigger' variety.

 ron ginger


 --
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

I currently have a Ford Ranger pickup truck that has a bifuel CNG 
(Compressed Natural Gas)/unleaded gas conversion and I am going to try 
and convert that to Propane.  I don't have a good source for CNG and 
right now Propane is going for just over $1.00 per gallon when purchased 
in 500 gallons or more (I have a bulk tank).  It doesn't take a rocket 
scientist to figure out that $1.00 per gallon fuel will pay for a 
conversion very quickly and I already have most of the parts.Propane 
is a fairly easy fuel to handle compared to CNG.   Not as easy as 
Unleaded or Diesel but for 1/3rd the price I can't resist.   I have 
heard that the low propane prices are due to the fracking that is going 
on.   I was recently traveling near Pittsburgh and I needed to get a 
hotel room one night and all of the hotels were booked and I was told 
that was because of the gas field workers who were shipped into open up 
the old PA oil wells via fracking.Apparently they are getting a lot 
of natural gas and propane out of those wells now.

I've got a friend who commutes 120 miles per day and he is thinking 
about putting a Propane conversion on his car for the same reason.
There is actually a propane fueling station that opened up on I-69 in 
Northern Indiana recently and the last time I went by there last week 
they were selling propane at the self service pumps for $1.29 per 
gallon.   Not bad!  :-)

On the OT topic of CO2 - do you know that you can buy CO2 generators 
that are oftentimes used in greenhouses?   They burn Natural Gas solely 
for the purpose of generating CO2...  I thought that was ironic - CO2 
really is a Greenhouse gas!  :-)
Google:  CO2 generator greenhouse   And yes, they are perfectly 
legal.Perhaps you guys in the UK need to relabel your cars mobile 
Green House gas generators and then perhaps you can get a farm credit 
or something instead.  ;-)

Dave


On 8/5/2012 9:12 PM, jeremy youngs wrote:
 andy it was my impression from field engineers and warranty
 replacement that the issue is fuel lubricity in the diesels, While i
 am astounded by the output of modern oil burners they tend to like
 parts when not fed a diet of perfect fuel in my exp. as to the e85
 they have a sensor in the canister vent and siff the o2 to calculate
 fuel blend and adjust fuel mapping accordingly. This seems to me that
 it would require much better fpgas than those on non flex vehicles,
 but today i think fpga capacity is probly not the issue it was 4 yrs
 ago when i was deep into keeping them going

 On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 9:03 PM, andy pughbodge...@gmail.com  wrote:

 On 6 August 2012 01:21, jeremy youngsjcyoung...@gmail.com  wrote:

  
 It
 would be great if manufacturers could develop efi diesels that were
 multifuel compatible sadly that would be a tremendous engineering and
 im sure andy would agree fuel mapping feat.

 You can buy variants of the gasoline engines that automatically
 compensate for E85 (85% ethanol) though I am not sure how it is done.
 No sign of that for Diesel yet though it ought to be possible with
 in-cylinder pressure transducers.

 --
 atp
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Re: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!

2012-08-06 Thread charles green

i heard that they were making a movie about mars called 'total recall'.

--- On Sun, 8/5/12, ro...@abcnc.se ro...@abcnc.se wrote:

 From: ro...@abcnc.se ro...@abcnc.se
 Subject: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 11:05 PM
 Just wanted to congratulate my
 American fellows for a safe landing on Mars.
 Yes, Mars Science Laboratory aka Curiosity are there with
 all it's six
 wheels firmly and neatly placed in the Martian sand!

 A great day for all of us Space-enthusiasts!

 Pics from the rover here:

 http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/raw

 (Well, testpics really, all systems Go! )

 /Roger

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[Emc-users] Co2 equals OT - Agreed!

2012-08-06 Thread Roger Holmquist

 ;-)

 Roger

 
 

 
 

 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!

While I am very glad it worked, I thought the chances for failure were 
great as that landing sequence was very complicated with the crane 
mechanism.

I think I would have looked (desperately) for a different solution.

Dave

On 8/6/2012 9:27 AM, charles green wrote:
 i heard that they were making a movie about mars called 'total recall'.


 --- On Sun, 8/5/12, ro...@abcnc.sero...@abcnc.se  wrote:


 From: ro...@abcnc.sero...@abcnc.se
 Subject: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 11:05 PM
 Just wanted to congratulate my
 American fellows for a safe landing on Mars.
 Yes, Mars Science Laboratory aka Curiosity are there with
 all it's six
 wheels firmly and neatly placed in the Martian sand!

 A great day for all of us Space-enthusiasts!


 Pics from the rover here:

 http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/raw

 (Well, testpics really, all systems Go! )


 /Roger




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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread Mark Cason

On 08/06/2012 04:06 AM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 6 August 2012 03:46,  ceen...@in-front.com wrote:

 My thought was to get a fairly low volume diesel direct injector (i.e. 1L to 
 2L 4-cyl diesel car) and grind away the lower section of the nozzle which 
 has the 6 or 8 pinholes to allow solder paste to exit a bit more freely.
 You can't use a Diesel injector for that. Apart from problems with
 viscosity the injectors are piloted, and _require_ 200bar to operate
 the internal mechanism.
 I suspect that some of the clearances are smaller than the solder
 paste grains too.

 Perhaps a peristaltic pump?

   a few years ago, i saw a prototyping machine, that used a syringe, to 
deposit solder directly onto a SMD pad.  It basically touched down on a 
pad, and then deposited a tiny amount of solder, while retracting.  
then, it rewound the syringe's stepper, a couple steps, to keep solder 
from dripping.  It was slow, but it worked.  The company folded, and I 
never could find out what happened to that machine.  I know that it 
worked on 0805, and SOT packaging, whether it worked on anything finer, 
I never saw.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

2012-08-06 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 06 August 2012 11:01:08 John Kasunich did opine:

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012, at 08:31 AM, Roger Holmquist wrote:
   Well Mark, I don't think U should enter the Global Warming debate
   because the following truth has been thoroughly tested:
   
   1) Too little water kills a man.
   
   2) Too much water kills a man.
 
 I don't think we should enter the Global Warming debate for
 three reasons:
 
 1) It is off-topic.
 
 2) It is a hot-button issue and will result in LOTS of
 off-topic messages, not just one or two.
 
 3) Some of us use the shop (and shop talk) as a way to avoid
 politics and disputes, please don't bring them here.
 
 Thanks for your consideration,

And I agree with John, even if I do tend to wander off topic in some of my 
replies.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up!
Be careful how you get yourself involved with persons or situations that
can't bear inspection.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 06 August 2012 11:04:47 Dave did opine:

 I currently have a Ford Ranger pickup truck that has a bifuel CNG
 (Compressed Natural Gas)/unleaded gas conversion and I am going to try
 and convert that to Propane.  I don't have a good source for CNG and
 right now Propane is going for just over $1.00 per gallon when purchased
 in 500 gallons or more (I have a bulk tank).  It doesn't take a rocket
 scientist to figure out that $1.00 per gallon fuel will pay for a
 conversion very quickly and I already have most of the parts.Propane
 is a fairly easy fuel to handle compared to CNG.   Not as easy as
 Unleaded or Diesel but for 1/3rd the price I can't resist.   I have
 heard that the low propane prices are due to the fracking that is going
 on.   I was recently traveling near Pittsburgh and I needed to get a
 hotel room one night and all of the hotels were booked and I was told
 that was because of the gas field workers who were shipped into open up
 the old PA oil wells via fracking.Apparently they are getting a lot
 of natural gas and propane out of those wells now.
 
 I've got a friend who commutes 120 miles per day and he is thinking
 about putting a Propane conversion on his car for the same reason.
 There is actually a propane fueling station that opened up on I-69 in
 Northern Indiana recently and the last time I went by there last week
 they were selling propane at the self service pumps for $1.29 per
 gallon.   Not bad!  :-)
 
 On the OT topic of CO2 - do you know that you can buy CO2 generators
 that are oftentimes used in greenhouses?   They burn Natural Gas solely
 for the purpose of generating CO2...  I thought that was ironic - CO2
 really is a Greenhouse gas!  :-)
 Google:  CO2 generator greenhouse   And yes, they are perfectly
 legal.Perhaps you guys in the UK need to relabel your cars mobile
 Green House gas generators and then perhaps you can get a farm credit
 or something instead.  ;-)
 
 Dave

One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane is 
assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large proportion 
of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes applied to road 
use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to figure out that you 
aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few examples to be made because 
somebody isn't following existing law, and that separate pumps for road use 
taxed propane will be mandated relatively quickly.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up!
Be careful how you get yourself involved with persons or situations that
can't bear inspection.

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Re: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!

2012-08-06 Thread Ed Nisley

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 10:10 -0400, Dave wrote:
 I think I would have looked (desperately) for a different solution.

One of the engineers (in the movie they put out before the event)
observed that the whole series of maneuvers was crazy, but it was the
*least* crazy way to accomplish the mission...

-- 
Ed
http://softsolder.com



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Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens

2012-08-06 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:32:21 +0300
 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens
 
 Hello!

 Can anyone advice me, if is there already available firmware for 5i23
 card with 24 stepgens on 2 50-pin connectors?

 -- 
 Viesturs

 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


Theres a ST48 config for the 5I22 but no ST24 that I know of for the 5I23, 
though its a simple copy-paste job to make one

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

2012-08-06 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, John Kasunich wrote:

 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:45:27 -0400
 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CO2 good?

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012, at 08:31 AM, Roger Holmquist wrote:
 Well Mark, I don't think U should enter the Global Warming debate
 because the following truth has been thoroughly tested:

 1) Too little water kills a man.

 2) Too much water kills a man.

 I don't think we should enter the Global Warming debate for
 three reasons:

 1) It is off-topic.

 2) It is a hot-button issue and will result in LOTS of
 off-topic messages, not just one or two.

 3) Some of us use the shop (and shop talk) as a way to avoid
 politics and disputes, please don't bring them here.

 Thanks for your consideration,

 --
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

Amen
(or Ramen as the case may be)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane is
 assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large proportion
 of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes applied to road
 use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to figure out that you
 aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few examples to be made because
 somebody isn't following existing law, and that separate pumps for road use
 taxed propane will be mandated relatively quickly.

 Cheers, Gene

Gene,

Propane is already taxed for road usage.  My Dad, and now my next
youngest brother have been in the propane biz for years.  They have
collect road usage tax on all propane sold for forklifts and any
over-the-road vehicles.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread dave

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 12:08 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane is
  assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large proportion
  of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes applied to road
  use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to figure out that you
  aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few examples to be made because
  somebody isn't following existing law, and that separate pumps for road use
  taxed propane will be mandated relatively quickly.
 
  Cheers, Gene
 
 Gene,
 
 Propane is already taxed for road usage.  My Dad, and now my next
 youngest brother have been in the propane biz for years.  They have
 collect road usage tax on all propane sold for forklifts and any
 over-the-road vehicles.
 
 Mark
 
Non-taxed propane for road use lasted about 4 years (IIRC) in WA before
taxes hit it. It only makes economic sense if you drive a big pickup or
a pickup with a trailer a few hundred mi/da. The price is all the market
will bear and then some as the price varies with the time of year. Your
gain in using propane is not in BTU/gal but in longevity of the valves,
etc. 

Dave
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[Emc-users] solder paste

ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
 Mydata has a MY500 solder paste printer but it about $200k USD more than I 
 want to spend in the next year or so on a printer.  It looks to be a nice 
 machine.  I may see if I can get a replacement head for a MY500 if I can.
   
Printing solder paste with a stencil is amazingly low-tech.  The only 
thing hard to make is the stencil.
You can buy these, but for many short-run projects the cost would add 
up.  I have a way to make
stencils myself from .003 brass shim stock material, it is done just 
like making a PC board.
You can probably do this with a laser printer and heat transfer the 
toner/resist.

I think keeping a paste jet printer working would put you in the mad 
house.  Ink jet
printers generally don't work if left sitting for a few days, I'd expect 
it to be
WAY worse with solder paste in there!

Jon

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[Emc-users] solder paste

Mark Cason wrote:


a few years ago, i saw a prototyping machine, that used a syringe, to 
 deposit solder directly onto a SMD pad.  It basically touched down on a 
 pad, and then deposited a tiny amount of solder, while retracting.  
 then, it rewound the syringe's stepper, a couple steps, to keep solder 
 from dripping.  It was slow, but it worked.  The company folded, and I 
 never could find out what happened to that machine.  I know that it 
 worked on 0805, and SOT packaging, whether it worked on anything finer, 
 I never saw.
   
Yes, air over syringe pistons and a kind of dual screw pump are used for 
solder paste
dispensing in production machines.  There must be 50 companies making 
these machines,
either stand alone or as add-ons to pick and place machines.  I think 
Manncorp and
Madell might be some of the US makers or distributors.

Jon


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I use a manual stencil printer now and it does work pretty well. The issue is
banging out a stencil for all of the proto boards I make. There are about 30
proto designs created per year and since the boards change a bit before they
become final, so does the stencil. I don't see the Mydata printer being used
for high volume in large production houses as much as high flexibility (in
setup) in a lower to medium sized assy house.

The vision is to spend 1-2 hours programming a printer then let it loose on the
boards. A typical board run for me is 200 pcs. I agree with printer
maintenance. Mark recommended a peristaltic pump. I do like those. A short
piece of small high quality tubing is easily disposed of. Mark also provided
this link as an alternative method to the jet head:
http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/asymtek/Documents/Articles/2008_07_SMT_advanced_solder%20paste_NordsonASYMTEK.pdf

I also have a 2000# automatic stencil printer that will accept up to 27 x 27
framed stencils. It was part of a package deal and I did not say no. The
smallest framed stencil it will handle is maybe 20 x 20. The boards/panels
can be smaller of course. My PP conveyor is only 12 wide.

Dennis

---Original Message---
From: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
To: ceen...@in-front.com, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: solder paste
Sent: Aug 06 '12 11:32

ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
Mydata has a MY500 solder paste printer but it about $200k USD more than I
want to spend in the next year or so on a printer. It looks to be a nice
machine. I may see if I can get a replacement head for a MY500 if I can.
Printing solder paste with a stencil is amazingly low-tech. The only
thing hard to make is the stencil.
You can buy these, but for many short-run projects the cost would add
up. I have a way to make
stencils myself from .003 brass shim stock material, it is done just
like making a PC board.
You can probably do this with a laser printer and heat transfer the
toner/resist.

I think keeping a paste jet printer working would put you in the mad
house. Ink jet
printers generally don't work if left sitting for a few days, I'd expect
it to be
WAY worse with solder paste in there!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] MSL Landing: Success!

2012-08-06 Thread Kirk Wallace

Related links I found:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Science_Laboratory 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_embedded_computer_systems_on_board_the_Mars_rovers
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks 

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/mission/rover/ 

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

2012-08-06 Thread Matt Shaver

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:42:56 -0400
Ron Ginger rongin...@roadrunner.com wrote:

 I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines 
 bigger' variety.

I'm actually very interested to see the Linux version of Mach. As far as
I can tell, most of the criticism of Mach relates to it being hosted on
Windows, and the timing related difficulties that can result.

Once Mach is on Linux, it should be able to perform as well, or better
than, Linuxcnc (EMC) give enough development time and effort. It will
be interesting to see the differences between the two programs once the
platform differences are removed.

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. I did offer to be the first Linux guinea pig for Mach4/Linux, so I
look forward to a side-by-side comparison.

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens

2012-08-06 Thread Viesturs Lācis

2012/8/6 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
 On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


 Can anyone advice me, if is there already available firmware for 5i23
 card with 24 stepgens on 2 50-pin connectors?


 Theres a ST48 config for the 5I22 but no ST24 that I know of for the 5I23,
 though its a simple copy-paste job to make one


Thanks!
Is there a chance You could provide it for me?

-- 
Viesturs

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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens

2012-08-06 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:40:10 +0300
 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens
 
 2012/8/6 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
 On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


 Can anyone advice me, if is there already available firmware for 5i23
 card with 24 stepgens on 2 50-pin connectors?


 Theres a ST48 config for the 5I22 but no ST24 that I know of for the 5I23,
 though its a simple copy-paste job to make one


 Thanks!
 Is there a chance You could provide it for me?

 -- 
 Viesturs



OK, well not quite as simple as I thought because 24 stepgens will not fit in 
a 400K spartan3 chip, but 18 will: freeby.mesanet.com/5i23st18.bit


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels


The $1.29 at the nearby station - included the road tax!

I took a picture of the station since I didn't think anyone would 
believe me!

Dave


On 8/6/2012 11:13 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Monday 06 August 2012 11:04:47 Dave did opine:


 I currently have a Ford Ranger pickup truck that has a bifuel CNG
 (Compressed Natural Gas)/unleaded gas conversion and I am going to try
 and convert that to Propane.  I don't have a good source for CNG and
 right now Propane is going for just over $1.00 per gallon when purchased
 in 500 gallons or more (I have a bulk tank).  It doesn't take a rocket
 scientist to figure out that $1.00 per gallon fuel will pay for a
 conversion very quickly and I already have most of the parts.Propane
 is a fairly easy fuel to handle compared to CNG.   Not as easy as
 Unleaded or Diesel but for 1/3rd the price I can't resist.   I have
 heard that the low propane prices are due to the fracking that is going
 on.   I was recently traveling near Pittsburgh and I needed to get a
 hotel room one night and all of the hotels were booked and I was told
 that was because of the gas field workers who were shipped into open up
 the old PA oil wells via fracking.Apparently they are getting a lot
 of natural gas and propane out of those wells now.

 I've got a friend who commutes 120 miles per day and he is thinking
 about putting a Propane conversion on his car for the same reason.
 There is actually a propane fueling station that opened up on I-69 in
 Northern Indiana recently and the last time I went by there last week
 they were selling propane at the self service pumps for $1.29 per
 gallon.   Not bad!  :-)

 On the OT topic of CO2 - do you know that you can buy CO2 generators
 that are oftentimes used in greenhouses?   They burn Natural Gas solely
 for the purpose of generating CO2...  I thought that was ironic - CO2
 really is a Greenhouse gas!  :-)
 Google:  CO2 generator greenhouse   And yes, they are perfectly
 legal.Perhaps you guys in the UK need to relabel your cars mobile
 Green House gas generators and then perhaps you can get a farm credit
 or something instead.  ;-)

 Dave
  
 One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane is
 assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large proportion
 of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes applied to road
 use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to figure out that you
 aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few examples to be made because
 somebody isn't following existing law, and that separate pumps for road use
 taxed propane will be mandated relatively quickly.

 Cheers, Gene



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Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens

2012-08-06 Thread Viesturs Lācis

2012/8/6 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
 On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:40:10 +0300
 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 5i23 firmware with 24 stepgens

 2012/8/6 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
 On Mon, 6 Aug 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


 Can anyone advice me, if is there already available firmware for 5i23
 card with 24 stepgens on 2 50-pin connectors?


 Theres a ST48 config for the 5I22 but no ST24 that I know of for the 5I23,
 though its a simple copy-paste job to make one


 Thanks!
 Is there a chance You could provide it for me?

 --
 Viesturs



 OK, well not quite as simple as I thought because 24 stepgens will not fit in
 a 400K spartan3 chip, but 18 will: freeby.mesanet.com/5i23st18.bit

Thank You very much for Your help and quick response!!!

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

On 8/6/2012 1:20 PM, Matt Shaver wrote:
 On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 06:42:56 -0400
 Ron Gingerrongin...@roadrunner.com  wrote:


 I am finished with this topic, or further variations of the 'mines
 bigger' variety.
  
 I'm actually very interested to see the Linux version of Mach. As far as
 I can tell, most of the criticism of Mach relates to it being hosted on
 Windows, and the timing related difficulties that can result.

 Once Mach is on Linux, it should be able to perform as well, or better
 than, Linuxcnc (EMC) give enough development time and effort. It will
 be interesting to see the differences between the two programs once the
 platform differences are removed.

 Thanks,
 Matt

 P.S. I did offer to be the first Linux guinea pig for Mach4/Linux, so I
 look forward to a side-by-side comparison.

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Are a you assuming that they would use a real time extension on Linux?

I'd just be happy to see any new version of M3 actually go up for sale!

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread dave

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 15:07 -0400, Dave wrote:
 The $1.29 at the nearby station - included the road tax!
Wow! $2.83 here. My son has found a place that sells off-road for $1.30
and I thought that was good. 
Dave
 
 I took a picture of the station since I didn't think anyone would 
 believe me!
 
 Dave
 
 
 On 8/6/2012 11:13 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
  On Monday 06 August 2012 11:04:47 Dave did opine:
 
 
  I currently have a Ford Ranger pickup truck that has a bifuel CNG
  (Compressed Natural Gas)/unleaded gas conversion and I am going to try
  and convert that to Propane.  I don't have a good source for CNG and
  right now Propane is going for just over $1.00 per gallon when purchased
  in 500 gallons or more (I have a bulk tank).  It doesn't take a rocket
  scientist to figure out that $1.00 per gallon fuel will pay for a
  conversion very quickly and I already have most of the parts.Propane
  is a fairly easy fuel to handle compared to CNG.   Not as easy as
  Unleaded or Diesel but for 1/3rd the price I can't resist.   I have
  heard that the low propane prices are due to the fracking that is going
  on.   I was recently traveling near Pittsburgh and I needed to get a
  hotel room one night and all of the hotels were booked and I was told
  that was because of the gas field workers who were shipped into open up
  the old PA oil wells via fracking.Apparently they are getting a lot
  of natural gas and propane out of those wells now.
 
  I've got a friend who commutes 120 miles per day and he is thinking
  about putting a Propane conversion on his car for the same reason.
  There is actually a propane fueling station that opened up on I-69 in
  Northern Indiana recently and the last time I went by there last week
  they were selling propane at the self service pumps for $1.29 per
  gallon.   Not bad!  :-)
 
  On the OT topic of CO2 - do you know that you can buy CO2 generators
  that are oftentimes used in greenhouses?   They burn Natural Gas solely
  for the purpose of generating CO2...  I thought that was ironic - CO2
  really is a Greenhouse gas!  :-)
  Google:  CO2 generator greenhouse   And yes, they are perfectly
  legal.Perhaps you guys in the UK need to relabel your cars mobile
  Green House gas generators and then perhaps you can get a farm credit
  or something instead.  ;-)
 
  Dave
   
  One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane is
  assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large proportion
  of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes applied to road
  use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to figure out that you
  aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few examples to be made because
  somebody isn't following existing law, and that separate pumps for road use
  taxed propane will be mandated relatively quickly.
 
  Cheers, Gene
 
 
 
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 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...

2012-08-06 Thread Matt Shaver

On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:17:58 -0400
Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 Are a you assuming that they would use a real time extension on Linux?

I don't know. I spoke with Brian Barker at the CNC Workshop and I
think he said that the Mac  Linux versions would use external pulse
generators like the SmoothStepper _only_, at least initially. Perhaps
they'll go back and port their parallel port step generator module
later. If they do, the tools for real time development are easily setup
with a Linuxcnc CDROM.

Brian did exhibit the software running a machine, and had a big meeting
in the auditorium about their plans. I asked a few questions, the main
one concerned plugin development. I proposed a Linuxcnc plugin that
would use the Mach GUI and connect it to the Lunuxcnc bottom end.
Brian expressed his approval of this idea, though I don't know if I
will ever get a project where this would be needed.

The main issue for me is this: Often a prospective customer will
specify Mach as the control software for their project. I'm pretty good
at making the case for Linuxcnc, but if a lucrative project came along
where the client insisted on Mach, I could meet this requirement. The
caveat is that I don't want to deliver any solutions that deliver less
performance than the equivalent Linuxcnc based one.

I guess time will tell!

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 06 August 2012 17:34:31 Mark Wendt did opine:

 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  One thing that stands out in this propane discussion is that propane
  is assumed to be for heating and cooking purposes.  Since a large
  proportion of the pump price is the various state and federal taxes
  applied to road use fuel, it wouldn't take long for the tax folks to
  figure out that you aren't paying any road use taxes.  Expect a few
  examples to be made because somebody isn't following existing law,
  and that separate pumps for road use taxed propane will be mandated
  relatively quickly.
  
  Cheers, Gene
 
 Gene,
 
 Propane is already taxed for road usage.  My Dad, and now my next
 youngest brother have been in the propane biz for years.  They have
 collect road usage tax on all propane sold for forklifts and any
 over-the-road vehicles.
 
 Mark

At the prices quoted here, the propane must be free, because that is about 
what the taxes would be.

I've not found any of it thats free yet.  My grill takes the 4.5 gallon 
hideaway tanks  we're paying about $7.50 a gallon, for off road use.  Its 
a damned racket, ought to be subject to RICO.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up!
Do you have exactly what I want in a plaid poindexter bar bat??

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[Emc-users] Support for 6 axis

2012-08-06 Thread Alan

Hi,
I have upgraded my machine to support movement on 6 axes. So now I have 
to upgrade the electronics from 4 to 6 axis. I currently use a 4 axis 
breakout board and have seen some chinese 6 axis breakout boards 
advertised on ebay. Does anyone have any experience with these 
regardining reliability usefulness etc?  As an alternative I am thinking 
of getting a mesa 5i25 + 2 7i78 daughter cards would this be the better 
option?

thanks

Alan


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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Ford diesels

2012-08-06 Thread dave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States


Enjoy!

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Support for 6 axis

On 6 August 2012 23:40, Alan alan.batter...@virginmedia.com wrote:

 have seen some chinese 6 axis breakout boards
 advertised on ebay. Does anyone have any experience with these
 regardining reliability usefulness etc?

No experience, but I they will use all the output pins, so nothing
left for spindle control or similar.

   As an alternative I am thinking
 of getting a mesa 5i25 + 2 7i78 daughter cards would this be the better
 option?

More expensive, but a lot more capable.

-- 
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[Emc-users] motion.motion-enabled?

2012-08-06 Thread Matt Shaver

What does motion.motion-enabled do and where is it used?

1. I grep'ed for it in the source and I see where it's created. Looking
at the rest of the source code, it's not obvious where it's used. It
shows up in mot_priv.h, motion.c and control.c.

2. It shows up in the hal status as an input, but I can't seem to drive
it FALSE.

3. I came across this while looking for a way to inhibit motion.

4. The only type of motion I can't inhibit with the usual methods is
homing (motion.feed-hold and feed rate override don't seem to work on
homing).

5. I have a key switch that should disable ALL motion. It works, except
for homing.

6. If there's no other way, I can probably OR all the is-homing
signals, AND that with my-disable-switch-is-closed, and tie that to
halui.abort.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: [Emc-users] solder paste

ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
The vision is to spend 1-2 hours programming a printer then let it loose on
the boards. A typical board run for me is 200 pcs.
I have never done 200 boards in a run, but may have a job that big
soon. I will get the boards
panelized and do them 20 - 30 at a time. (This is a tiny board, about 2
postage stamps in size.)
I make my own stencils for these. It is kind of a pain, but I'm CHEAP!
I agree with printer maintenance. Mark recommended a peristaltic pump. I
do like those. A short piece of small high quality tubing is easily disposed
of. Mark also provided this link as an alternative method to the jet head:
http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/asymtek/Documents/Articles/2008_07_SMT_advanced_solder%20paste_NordsonASYMTEK.pdf

I have some doubts that plastic tubing can develop the required pressure
to dispense solder
paste. Having tried this with syringes and relatively small needles, it
takes a LOT of pressure
to make the paste flow. Several hundreds of PSI for sure. I think the
tubing would just
bulge a bit more and not be able to stay pinched shut by the rollers.
There is a kind of
constrained peristaltic pump, where the tubing is pinched between a
roller and a housing,
but these are tougher on the tubing, and if the pressure backs up, the
tubing just bursts.
Also, you have to worry about mashing the solder spheres together into
flakes, etc.

Finally, I can't imagine anything with a single dispense nozzle being
very fast. I think it
would easily be the slowest machine in your line.

Jon

Re: [Emc-users] STOP RIGHT NOW...