Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:43 PM, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: like... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG well - it could do the velocity.. but the acceleration is set pretty safe (not too many spare parts.) iirc 10in/sec^2 or something like that. sam Sam, Yer lookin' mighty spiffy in that lab coat. Mark -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
Hi I have a lathe that does just one job all of the time (one part with varied sizes). The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends. The tools are fixed always. It will cut one side finished and then move to the other side. I intend to use ngcgui to produce the gcode and use a gladevcp panel to select the side. Now my question is how do I swap the config around without having to generate mirrored gcode? I.E. I want to select the left hand lathe, generate the gcode or load it for that matter and cut. When it has done, I want to select the other side and cut the same code again. Or so I think. Any suggestions please? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Addressee is the intended audience. If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private correspondence. Thank you for honoring my wish. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
heh - isn't that how we all dress? I had to post some scopes of the torodal gcode. The new tp - strait G64 http://imagebin.org/300857 xyz - velocity gets to the programmed speed (aprox 1.96in/s - 3000mm/min) x acc, y acc. nice sin/cos graphs. sexy! (yes - I think it is sexy...) current tp - same config - G64 http://imagebin.org/300858 velocity peaks at almost .5in/sec - about 760mm/min current tp - same config G64Q.1 (combine segments that diviate less than .1mm) http://imagebin.org/300859 velocity averages around 1in/sec - about 1500mm/min Again and again - Rob - awesome work. (and as with anything linuxcnc - only gets better) sam On 03/21/2014 04:08 AM, Mark Wendt wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:43 PM, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote: like... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG well - it could do the velocity.. but the acceleration is set pretty safe (not too many spare parts.) iirc 10in/sec^2 or something like that. sam Sam, Yer lookin' mighty spiffy in that lab coat. Mark -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 21 March 2014 15:50, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. I am sure that the description is very clear to you, but I can't yet work out if the spindles turn in the same direction, or if the tools for each spindle operate on the same or opposite sides of the work. It seems like you should just be able to change coordinate systems and use negative Z values. If you want Z to be positive away from either chuck, depending on a mode change, then how do you allow for the fact that the Z-axis position is out by a couple of feet when you switch modes? What do you want to happen when you do switch modes? If Z = 10 is 10mm from one spindle and you change mode, do you want the tool to instantly shoot to within 10mm of the other spindle? How do you want to inform the system which spindle you are working with? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
On 03/21/2014 05:05 PM, sam sokolik wrote: heh - isn't that how we all dress? That depends on how many lumps still hang together on my coat. It has some signs of wear and tear. I had to post some scopes of the torodal gcode. The new tp - strait G64 http://imagebin.org/300857 xyz - velocity gets to the programmed speed (aprox 1.96in/s - 3000mm/min) x acc, y acc. nice sin/cos graphs. sexy! (yes - I think it is sexy...) Ah yes, for trochoidal curves the accelerations of X and Y should be exactly sinusoidal. The first derivative (velocity) should show a static offset on the sinusoidal curves, which represents the direction of motion. Do you have a measurement of what the magnitude of path-deviation is from the programmed path? The path deviations may also be slightly reduced when the trochoidal path is generated with higher resolution (smaller angular step interval in the calculation). -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 18:02, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? You can with G10 L2 R180. X will rotate 180 deg around the Z. Not what I want. I need to rotate the Z. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 18:17, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:50, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. I am sure that the description is very clear to you, but I can't yet work out if the spindles turn in the same direction, or if the tools for each spindle operate on the same or opposite sides of the work. The spindles can be activated independently and also change direction independently form each other. The tools work on the same side so one will spin clock wise and the other anti clockwise for the same job It seems like you should just be able to change coordinate systems and use negative Z values. If you want Z to be positive away from either chuck, depending on a mode change, then how do you allow for the fact that the Z-axis position is out by a couple of feet when you switch modes? What do you want to happen when you do switch modes? If Z = 10 is 10mm from one spindle and you change mode, do you want the tool to instantly shoot to within 10mm of the other spindle? How do you want to inform the system which spindle you are working with? The change over from one spindle to the other will happen as a move to the centre of the lathe where the reference position will be. There will be code in the beginning of the job loop to probe the material and then run the gcode from there. So I envisage some python code to control the spindles via hal. The solution will have a gladevcp panel with cotrols on it. Probaly to select the right spindle and to swap the coordinate system. That is why I want to keep the gcode as one file and do the swap in some other fashion. I was hoping to use MDI to swap the coordinates. I am sorry I am not close to the machine so I cannot send a picture of it. -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
How about just ignore conventions and invert the Z direction. Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:02, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? You can with G10 L2 R180. X will rotate 180 deg around the Z. Not what I want. I need to rotate the Z. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 18:57, Dave Caroline wrote: How about just ignore conventions and invert the Z direction. You mean like with a component to invert the dir pin of the stepper? Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:02, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? You can with G10 L2 R180. X will rotate 180 deg around the Z. Not what I want. I need to rotate the Z. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
Maybe I should have mentioned that only one spindle is active at any time. So in essence we have two lathes in one in order for them to step up production. They share a tool post and the x axis. Well the Z as well I suppose. On 2014-03-21 18:17, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:50, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. I am sure that the description is very clear to you, but I can't yet work out if the spindles turn in the same direction, or if the tools for each spindle operate on the same or opposite sides of the work. It seems like you should just be able to change coordinate systems and use negative Z values. If you want Z to be positive away from either chuck, depending on a mode change, then how do you allow for the fact that the Z-axis position is out by a couple of feet when you switch modes? What do you want to happen when you do switch modes? If Z = 10 is 10mm from one spindle and you change mode, do you want the tool to instantly shoot to within 10mm of the other spindle? How do you want to inform the system which spindle you are working with? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 03/21/2014 09:57 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote: ... snip The change over from one spindle to the other will happen as a move to the centre of the lathe where the reference position will be. There will be code in the beginning of the job loop to probe the material and then run the gcode from there. So I envisage some python code to control the spindles via hal. The solution will have a gladevcp panel with cotrols on it. Probaly to select the right spindle and to swap the coordinate system. That is why I want to keep the gcode as one file and do the swap in some other fashion. I was hoping to use MDI to swap the coordinates. I am sorry I am not close to the machine so I cannot send a picture of it. Maybe something like this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJov8SdmsS4 I would tend to use the hardware and LinuxCNC as-is then do all the customization in a CAM or a g-code generator. Switching Z axis direction on the fly seems risky or difficult. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/ -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
I am not sure of your setup one Z or two, if two yes just have your Zs in the way that makes the gcode sensible, so one is inverted, I think your display may need fixing too so it looks properly right hand. Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:57, Dave Caroline wrote: How about just ignore conventions and invert the Z direction. You mean like with a component to invert the dir pin of the stepper? Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:02, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? You can with G10 L2 R180. X will rotate 180 deg around the Z. Not what I want. I need to rotate the Z. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
I think you have given my some idea of how to approach this. I will have a panel with some controls on and a python script behind that to make sure only one chuck is working at any time. This way I can turn the setup around and still have the same gcode to work on both sides. One at a time. While the one is busy, the operator will load the stock on the other one. so this is how I think it will go: The operator will load stock in a chuck he will select the chuck on the panel He will enter the part size on the ngcgui screen he will push go the stock will be probed and the number of parts calculated the gcode will run for a number of parts. He will load the other chuck once the first job is done he will select the other chuck and push run The whole day long. On 2014-03-21 19:14, Dave Caroline wrote: I am not sure of your setup one Z or two, if two yes just have your Zs in the way that makes the gcode sensible, so one is inverted, I think your display may need fixing too so it looks properly right hand. Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:57, Dave Caroline wrote: How about just ignore conventions and invert the Z direction. You mean like with a component to invert the dir pin of the stepper? Dave Caroline On 21/03/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: On 2014-03-21 18:02, Stuart Stevenson wrote: Can you rotate like you show and then mirror X? You can with G10 L2 R180. X will rotate 180 deg around the Z. Not what I want. I need to rotate the Z. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.zawrote: On 2014-03-21 17:29, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:17, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: . The trick with this lathe is that is is two lathes in one. A mirrored setup with a dual tool post in the middle and a spindle on both ends A picture would help a lot. Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. Do you want to use XZ for both spindles, or would XZ for one and UW for the other be better? I was hoping to use XZ for both if possible. The action of G10 L2 P1 R180 would have worked if I did not want to swing around the X. It is exactly what I want but just for swinging around the X axis. It means that Z is reorientated. Either option is relatively straightforward apart from avoiding following errors when you switch spindles, or switch the toolpost to following a different G-code output. I would like to keep the same gcode if possible. Will I have to remap the G10 maybe or do you have a better solution? -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
This might be doable with a programmed tool-change position at the cross over point between the two Z axes. (There is an INI file entry for that) Basically the toolpost moves to zero in the absolute coordinates, then a bit of HAL code inverts the scale of the Z stepgen or PID (possibly according to whether the requested tool number is odd or even) then you carry on with a Z that runs backwards. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 19:15, Kirk Wallace wrote: On 03/21/2014 09:57 AM, Marius Liebenberg wrote: ... snip The change over from one spindle to the other will happen as a move to the centre of the lathe where the reference position will be. There will be code in the beginning of the job loop to probe the material and then run the gcode from there. So I envisage some python code to control the spindles via hal. The solution will have a gladevcp panel with cotrols on it. Probaly to select the right spindle and to swap the coordinate system. That is why I want to keep the gcode as one file and do the swap in some other fashion. I was hoping to use MDI to swap the coordinates. I am sorry I am not close to the machine so I cannot send a picture of it. Maybe something like this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJov8SdmsS4 That is awesome stuff. Mine is nothing as complicated though and the position of the two spindles are fixed I would tend to use the hardware and LinuxCNC as-is then do all the customization in a CAM or a g-code generator. Switching Z axis direction on the fly seems risky or difficult. I tend to agree with you and that is what I planned from the word go. However once you look at the variables in the operational conditions, it is not that simple. There are to many choices that could influence how the thing works. And the biggest thing is that the machine will only ever make one part. There are four parts to set and they are going to have four machines that does a single type of part each. So if I have done it once then it is done. No need for CAM to confuse them. -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On 2014-03-21 19:35, andy pugh wrote: This might be doable with a programmed tool-change position at the cross over point between the two Z axes. (There is an INI file entry for that) Basically the toolpost moves to zero in the absolute coordinates, then a bit of HAL code inverts the scale of the Z stepgen or PID (possibly according to whether the requested tool number is odd or even) then you carry on with a Z that runs backwards. Yes even more doable. -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
Why would one have a mirrored lathe if only one is usable at a time? not sure I see the production gain. Dave Caroline -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 01:41 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: Why would one have a mirrored lathe if only one is usable at a time? not sure I see the production gain. Load one chuck while the other is running. Which of course raises plenty of safety concerns. I hope Marius has a plan for that - the operator loading chuck #1 needs to be protected from the spinning part in chuck 2, the moving tool-post, and flying chips. -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
I was wondering how I could check that.. I don't know - but I can tell you this.. At G64p.002q0 P is in mm and my config. 30in/s^2 and 500ipm per axis.. the velocity just starts to dip - just wiggles between 3000 and 2999mm/min. If I do p.001q0 it fluxuates around 2200mm/min. The accelleration graph looks a but harry at that thoug though.. (wipping around to try to keep up the path tolerance and velocity up..) this is p.002q0 http://imagebin.org/300880 this is with a sane-ish p.01q0 http://imagebin.org/300881 so with the path programmed - it can follow at cutting speed with tollerances below what is sane... (with that config) sam On 03/21/2014 11:32 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 03/21/2014 05:05 PM, sam sokolik wrote: heh - isn't that how we all dress? That depends on how many lumps still hang together on my coat. It has some signs of wear and tear. I had to post some scopes of the torodal gcode. The new tp - strait G64 http://imagebin.org/300857 xyz - velocity gets to the programmed speed (aprox 1.96in/s - 3000mm/min) x acc, y acc. nice sin/cos graphs. sexy! (yes - I think it is sexy...) Ah yes, for trochoidal curves the accelerations of X and Y should be exactly sinusoidal. The first derivative (velocity) should show a static offset on the sinusoidal curves, which represents the direction of motion. Do you have a measurement of what the magnitude of path-deviation is from the programmed path? The path deviations may also be slightly reduced when the trochoidal path is generated with higher resolution (smaller angular step interval in the calculation). -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
On Friday 21 March 2014 13:59:04 Marius Liebenberg did opine: On 2014-03-21 18:17, andy pugh wrote: On 21 March 2014 15:50, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote: Very straight forward really. Not a standard lathe but a custom made to cut plastic. Looks much like a wood lathe with two chucks. Linear slides along the Z axis with a chuck at each end. One X axis with permanent tools set up at both ends of the tool holder. I am sure that the description is very clear to you, but I can't yet work out if the spindles turn in the same direction, or if the tools for each spindle operate on the same or opposite sides of the work. The spindles can be activated independently and also change direction independently form each other. The tools work on the same side so one will spin clock wise and the other anti clockwise for the same job It seems like you should just be able to change coordinate systems and use negative Z values. If you want Z to be positive away from either chuck, depending on a mode change, then how do you allow for the fact that the Z-axis position is out by a couple of feet when you switch modes? What do you want to happen when you do switch modes? If Z = 10 is 10mm from one spindle and you change mode, do you want the tool to instantly shoot to within 10mm of the other spindle? How do you want to inform the system which spindle you are working with? The change over from one spindle to the other will happen as a move to the centre of the lathe where the reference position will be. There will be code in the beginning of the job loop to probe the material and then run the gcode from there. So I envisage some python code to control the spindles via hal. The solution will have a gladevcp panel with cotrols on it. Probaly to select the right spindle and to swap the coordinate system. That is why I want to keep the gcode as one file and do the swap in some other fashion. I was hoping to use MDI to swap the coordinates. I am sorry I am not close to the machine so I cannot send a picture of it. I think this is a case where I would write the code to multiply the Z value by a named variable. Then use the mdi facility to set that named variable to either 1 for normal, or to -1 for the right hand spindle. I checked the G10L2, and G17-19.1 on the wiki just now, but the G10L2 code seems very specific in that the R rotation is using the Z axis as the point to rotate about. One could even put it in a make so many parts loop, where the code itself sets the named var, then calls the subroutine that makes that part. That of course is not the only choice, but I hate writing code, so I would much rather do that control in the parent routine and have just one subroutine to actually make the part. Is this thing open enough and safe enough to be around while running that you can be changing the finished part out for the next piece of plastic on the spindle currently stopped? That would almost be a lights out job if a robotic changer could be fabricated that could reach both spindles. Repetitive tasks are what machines are good at, but humans get bored doing. And when humans get bored, they make mistakes. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
On 03/21/2014 07:06 PM, sam sokolik wrote: I was wondering how I could check that.. I don't know - but I can tell you this.. At G64p.002q0 P is in mm and my config. 30in/s^2 and 500ipm per axis.. the velocity just starts to dip - just wiggles between 3000 and 2999mm/min. If I do p.001q0 it fluxuates around 2200mm/min. The accelleration graph looks a but harry at that thoug though.. (wipping around to try to keep up the path tolerance and velocity up..) [snip] so with the path programmed - it can follow at cutting speed with tollerances below what is sane... (with that config) That looks pretty impressive to follow within 50 micrometer. I prepared a few versions of the same patters. Each with a different angular interval to generate the curve from 10deg...0.2deg steps. That results in linear segments with lengths from ~0.75mm to ~0.01mm. http://media.vagrearg.org/gcmc/trochoidal-steps.tar.gz I wonder if the smallest angular interval would improve the following and where the breakdown occurs. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
there is a limitation of 'too short' Rob explained it in a dev email (discusing the Q part of G64).. Unfortunately, the new TP still has the restriction that you have to touch each segment at least once. A small NCD tolerance is still useful to combine stupidly short segments, in particular ones that would be skipped over in a single cycle of the trajectory planner. A quick theoretical example: If we want to follow a path at 60 IPM (1 IPS), with a servo rate of 1kHz, then a segment that is shorter than 0.001 could be skipped entirely during a single cycle update. Therefore, an NCD tolerance of roughly 0.001 would eliminate these very short segments, letting the TP maintain the desired speed. Given this benefit, I don't think we can totally eliminate it. However, since the tolerance can be much smaller than the blend tolerance and still work well, it seems to me like another argument to decouple them. -Rob sam On 03/21/2014 01:31 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: On 03/21/2014 07:06 PM, sam sokolik wrote: I was wondering how I could check that.. I don't know - but I can tell you this.. At G64p.002q0 P is in mm and my config. 30in/s^2 and 500ipm per axis.. the velocity just starts to dip - just wiggles between 3000 and 2999mm/min. If I do p.001q0 it fluxuates around 2200mm/min. The accelleration graph looks a but harry at that thoug though.. (wipping around to try to keep up the path tolerance and velocity up..) [snip] so with the path programmed - it can follow at cutting speed with tollerances below what is sane... (with that config) That looks pretty impressive to follow within 50 micrometer. I prepared a few versions of the same patters. Each with a different angular interval to generate the curve from 10deg...0.2deg steps. That results in linear segments with lengths from ~0.75mm to ~0.01mm. http://media.vagrearg.org/gcmc/trochoidal-steps.tar.gz I wonder if the smallest angular interval would improve the following and where the breakdown occurs. -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code (sam sokolik)
On 03/21/2014 07:43 PM, sam sokolik wrote: there is a limitation of 'too short' Rob explained it in a dev email (discusing the Q part of G64).. Unfortunately, the new TP still has the restriction that you have to touch each segment at least once. A small NCD tolerance is still useful to combine stupidly short segments, in particular ones that would be skipped over in a single cycle of the trajectory planner. [snip] That explains the limits nicely, thanks. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mirrored lathe
John That was my first concern as well but as I am not the designer or builder of the machine I have no say about that. The owner did ensure me that there are screens to be installed that will shelter the operator. People do funny things and I just install and configure LCNC :) The shop is run by two guys only and one of them will handle all four of the machines. He will load the chucks and start the programs. The part takes a minute or two to make and a piece of stock large enough to make ten parts is loaded in each side. So not to hectic for one guy to handle if done in this way. So there is some good logic to the way they intend the machines to operate On 2014-03-21 20:06, John Kasunich wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 01:41 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: Why would one have a mirrored lathe if only one is usable at a time? not sure I see the production gain. Load one chuck while the other is running. Which of course raises plenty of safety concerns. I hope Marius has a plan for that - the operator loading chuck #1 needs to be protected from the spinning part in chuck 2, the moving tool-post, and flying chips. -- Regards /Groete Marius D. Liebenberg +27 82 698 3251 +27 12 743 6064 -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
