Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Hi to all. First of all thank you for your opinions. I'm Italian but I'm not a stupid BASIC spaghetti programmers. [ ;-) ] Especially in CNC programming where usually the program flow from top to bottom and stops at the end with M2 (with no infinite loop as a void main ) and you need to do a complex logical flow (conditional and unconditional) within the program to perform the various tasks (not essentially machining code) the GOTO statements are widely used. The fact that all the main CNC manufacturers include this kind of programming feature demonstrate that this way is far from obsolete but exactly the opposite. Also the emblazoned Haas machine manufacturer include the GOTO in their CNC G code programming language instruction set. Also the robot controllers programming languages (whatever brand) include the GOTO statements too. And , following the Chris opinion : besides if someone wants to write 'bad' gcode with gotos that work, who are we to tell them how to program :) I wonder to know how difficult is to implement the GOTO logical operators within the LCNC G Code interpreter. Regards Alex On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Chris Morley chrisinnana...@hotmail.com wrote: Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 22:33:53 -0400 From: linux...@thinkingdevices.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps . I was a bit surprised to see that LinuxCNC didn't have an unconditional jump, ie a GOTO. I chalked it up to LinuxCNC being written by programmers, and the structured programming Nazis have beaten it into their heads that GOTO statements are evil, and only stupid BASIC spaghetti programmers use them. I tend to agree with you. bad use of goto is .. bad. good and sparse use of goto is fine, possibly good. Just look at our beloved HAL code ( coded in C ) you will see lots of goto statements for error cleanup/messages. makes the code easy to follow and clean. besides if someone wants to write 'bad' gcode with gotos that work, who are we to tell them how to program :) Chris M -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
I am reminded of a sign on one of the computer science professor's door at the university where I worked: GOTO is an obscene four-letter word and should only be used in dire emergencies - but even then, not in good company ...or something to that effect. That kind-of sums it up :-) Regards Cecil -Original Message- From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] Sent: 02 October 2014 11:59 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps . On 2 Oct 2014, at 18:32, andy pugh wrote: On 2 October 2014 17:59, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: I've checked out the jump functionality (within the G code) used from several CNCs on the market (Fanuc,Siemens ,Heidenhain,Fagor ...) and it is present. Nearly every other programming language either does not have a jump/goto or deprecates the use of it. I second that emotion . * The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail and the sender cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments. .* -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Honestly I don't understand what evil is inside the GOTO statement to be rejected . As I told before so many CNC manufactures are including it in their G Code dialects . So are they living on another planet ? A programmer can write bad code without any use of GOTO. So why the absence of GOTO is saving a programmed from write bad code ? I'm deeply convinced (by the practical usage) that with GOTO is possible to write programs much more clear and structured than without. Regards Alex On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Churms, Cecil cecil.chu...@debeersgroup.com wrote: I am reminded of a sign on one of the computer science professor's door at the university where I worked: GOTO is an obscene four-letter word and should only be used in dire emergencies - but even then, not in good company ...or something to that effect. That kind-of sums it up :-) Regards Cecil -Original Message- From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] Sent: 02 October 2014 11:59 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps . On 2 Oct 2014, at 18:32, andy pugh wrote: On 2 October 2014 17:59, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: I've checked out the jump functionality (within the G code) used from several CNCs on the market (Fanuc,Siemens ,Heidenhain,Fagor ...) and it is present. Nearly every other programming language either does not have a jump/goto or deprecates the use of it. I second that emotion . * The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail and the sender cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments. .* -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik -- The right half of the brain controls the left half of the body. This means that only left handed people are in their right mind. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 03.10.14 04:55, Chris Morley wrote: I tend to agree with you. bad use of goto is .. bad. good and sparse use of goto is fine, possibly good. Ah, awareness ... good to see on a thread with a sad amount of misinformed absolutism. For any still under the thrall of absolutist teaching in their formative youth, please consider C's break which ends any switch case which does not fall through to the next. It _is_ a goto. (They all goto the same place.) The aliased name is just syntactic candy. In the ITUT Specification and Description Language (SDL), there is a JOIN command, much used to avoid unreliable code duplication in the event-driven embedded systems on which it is used. It is a GOTO, but the different name makes it legit in the eyes of those with GOTO-phobia. It is possible that impressionable undergraduates missed one word in the lecture goto should almost always be avoided. They may also have failed to realise that the lecturer was talking to ultimate noobs, not experienced programmers. Just look at our beloved HAL code ( coded in C ) you will see lots of goto statements for error cleanup/messages. makes the code easy to follow and clean. besides if someone wants to write 'bad' gcode with gotos that work, who are we to tell them how to program :) It is clumsy and confusing to use them where a more structured, and therefore more descriptive, construct is available. Not for nought is it said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. Erik -- [Perl is] more like a tank than a mine field. It may be ugly, but it shoots straight and gets you where you're going, if you don't mind a few squashed daisies.- Larry Wall -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Apologies - I did not mean to imply anything bad or evil in my quote of the prof (who was a structured programming nut), but I probably sounded that way. I actually agree that GOTO should be available for all the situations in which it is appropriate. However, I also know how it can be easily misused - resulting in buggy code, or spaghetti code or unmaintainable code or whatever. I liken it's inclusion or exclusion in a language to e.g. a choice between C and Pascal. Pascal has been referred to as a perfect high-level language - but it is also a perfect pain! Once you are used to programming with pointers in C, you find Pascal soo limiting. How you wish you had a pointer available to simplify and speed up this specific algorithm you are working on. So you return to C, and then one day, you leave your pointers pointing to outer space, and the program crashes with a variable which has mysteriously and autonomously changed its value - and until you have identified the bug - you spend your time getting upset with the compiler that is not doing what you are telling it to do! So the higher-level your language is, the more you are protected from your own silliness. The lower-level your language is, the more empowered you are to do fast and fancy things - but with a stability cost. (Believe it or not, I prefer C or even Assembler in some instances!) The question we are really debating is, is the LinuxCNC G-dialect a high level or low level language, or even an Assembler? And I believe that each one of us on the list has a different view as to how high or how low we should go! My personal view is that it does need the power of the availability of a GOTO/JMP, but that it should be couched in caution and/or protection for the beginner. Ideally, it should be available when an advanced switch has been triggered, but be turned off by default. However, I say this with trepidation, as many of us know that even this approach is fraught with pitfalls :-). How many of us have at times forgotten to include the gcc -std=gnu99 switch? Well - enough philosophising - thanks again to all the guys who have made linuxCNC the powerful package it is. Dr Cecil L Churms Principal Scientist DebTech De Beers Group Services (Pty) Ltd cecil.chu...@debeersgroup.com | Tel: +27 11 309 3832 | Fax: +27 11 309 3052 -Original Message- From: alex chiosso [mailto:achio...@gmail.com] Sent: 03 October 2014 09:35 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps . Honestly I don't understand what evil is inside the GOTO statement to be rejected . As I told before so many CNC manufactures are including it in their G Code dialects . So are they living on another planet ? A programmer can write bad code without any use of GOTO. So why the absence of GOTO is saving a programmed from write bad code ? I'm deeply convinced (by the practical usage) that with GOTO is possible to write programs much more clear and structured than without. Regards Alex On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Churms, Cecil cecil.chu...@debeersgroup.com wrote: I am reminded of a sign on one of the computer science professor's door at the university where I worked: GOTO is an obscene four-letter word and should only be used in dire emergencies - but even then, not in good company ...or something to that effect. That kind-of sums it up :-) Regards Cecil -Original Message- From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] Sent: 02 October 2014 11:59 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps . On 2 Oct 2014, at 18:32, andy pugh wrote: On 2 October 2014 17:59, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: I've checked out the jump functionality (within the G code) used from several CNCs on the market (Fanuc,Siemens ,Heidenhain,Fagor ...) and it is present. Nearly every other programming language either does not have a jump/goto or deprecates the use of it. I second that emotion . ** *** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose the e-mail or any part of its contents or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please e-mail the sender by replying to this message. All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail and the sender cannot accept responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or attachments. .* -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Hi Erik . Nice terms usage (GOTO-phobia) . You explained the concept clearly and effectively . Alex On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: On 03.10.14 04:55, Chris Morley wrote: I tend to agree with you. bad use of goto is .. bad. good and sparse use of goto is fine, possibly good. Ah, awareness ... good to see on a thread with a sad amount of misinformed absolutism. For any still under the thrall of absolutist teaching in their formative youth, please consider C's break which ends any switch case which does not fall through to the next. It _is_ a goto. (They all goto the same place.) The aliased name is just syntactic candy. In the ITUT Specification and Description Language (SDL), there is a JOIN command, much used to avoid unreliable code duplication in the event-driven embedded systems on which it is used. It is a GOTO, but the different name makes it legit in the eyes of those with GOTO-phobia. It is possible that impressionable undergraduates missed one word in the lecture goto should almost always be avoided. They may also have failed to realise that the lecturer was talking to ultimate noobs, not experienced programmers. Just look at our beloved HAL code ( coded in C ) you will see lots of goto statements for error cleanup/messages. makes the code easy to follow and clean. besides if someone wants to write 'bad' gcode with gotos that work, who are we to tell them how to program :) It is clumsy and confusing to use them where a more structured, and therefore more descriptive, construct is available. Not for nought is it said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. Erik -- [Perl is] more like a tank than a mine field. It may be ugly, but it shoots straight and gets you where you're going, if you don't mind a few squashed daisies.- Larry Wall -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 3 October 2014 09:24, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: Not for nought is it said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. You have seen the FORTRAN++ that makes up the bulk of the NML code in LinuxCNC then? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 3 October 2014 08:08, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder to know how difficult is to implement the GOTO logical operators within the LCNC G Code interpreter. The first question is how you would define the target position. As LinuxCNC G-code doesn't pay attention to line numbers I think you would need two new keywords, both the GOTO expression and the target. O100 LABEL maybe? In the interpreter at the moment the loop ends are matched by number. O100 while - O100 endwhile etc. In the context of GOTO it guess that you would need an O101 GOTO to jump to your O101 LABEL. But, this leaves no scope for the (I shudder to mention this even amongst GOTO advocates) computed GOTO. O[#1 + 200] GOTO isn't valid syntax, I don't think. As a less-than-transparent workaround you can currently use O100 WHILE [0] to jump to an O100 ENDWHILE, but I don't know if you can jump backwards, and I don't know if you can have more than one WHILE per ENDWHILE. For many of the applications that have been mentioned here, the O100 REPEAT[] statement will work. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 03.10.14 10:19, andy pugh wrote: On 3 October 2014 09:24, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: Not for nought is it said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. You have seen the FORTRAN++ that makes up the bulk of the NML code in LinuxCNC then? Errr ... is that relevant to the context? Is your point perhaps that Fortran++ is so different from Fortran that one can't write bad code with it? Hopefully there is a point, because you've worked hard to take that one sentence out of its context: Erik: It is clumsy and confusing to use them [gotos] where a more structured, and therefore more descriptive, construct is available. Not for nought is it said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. Perhaps you are unaware of the decades-long currency of the quote. Its context is not only the early language's intrinsic contribution to bad code, but also E.g.: » The world has seen so much bad Fortran code that the name of the language is now a synonym for bad coding. Many of us have never seen real Fortran code, but we know what coders mean when they say, “You can write Fortran in any language.” « - http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1039535 Erik (Who has not only seen Fortran code, but written some, decades before even Fortran90 came out.) -- There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless. -Jeff Polk -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 03.10.14 10:29, andy pugh wrote: But, this leaves no scope for the (I shudder to mention this even amongst GOTO advocates) computed GOTO. ISTM that the computed GOTO went extinct around the time that the more structured switch statement invaded that ecological niche in the programming world. Since our cpus are sufficiently faster than the machinery they control, there is no tangible run-time cost to synthesising a switch and its cases with if ... elseif ... endif, I figure. So we can safely run away without opening Pandora's can of worms, as Gene might adroitly put it. Erik -- Some [people] feel that the best way to improve Perl would be to go back in time and shoot the author before he wrote it. -Larry Wall -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 3 October 2014 11:38, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. You have seen the FORTRAN++ that makes up the bulk of the NML code in LinuxCNC then? Errr ... is that relevant to the context? It was a joke. Or an attempt at one. As far as I know there is no such language. Some bits of LinuxCNC is written in C++ that looks more like FORTRAN -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On Friday 03 October 2014 05:29:11 andy pugh did opine And Gene did reply: On 3 October 2014 08:08, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder to know how difficult is to implement the GOTO logical operators within the LCNC G Code interpreter. The first question is how you would define the target position. As LinuxCNC G-code doesn't pay attention to line numbers I think you would need two new keywords, both the GOTO expression and the target. O100 LABEL maybe? In the interpreter at the moment the loop ends are matched by number. O100 while - O100 endwhile etc. In the context of GOTO it guess that you would need an O101 GOTO to jump to your O101 LABEL. But, this leaves no scope for the (I shudder to mention this even amongst GOTO advocates) computed GOTO. O[#1 + 200] GOTO isn't valid syntax, I don't think. As a less-than-transparent workaround you can currently use O100 WHILE [0] to jump to an O100 ENDWHILE, but I don't know if you can jump backwards, and I don't know if you can have more than one WHILE per ENDWHILE. For many of the applications that have been mentioned here, the O100 REPEAT[] statement will work. This discussion is interesting. I guess you could say I learned all sorts of bad habits in the late 70's when I wrote, in machine code entered via a hex monitor on an RCA COSMAC based board, and I still have a copy of that code on paper on the top shelf, a program to put the queue and next tones on a commercial tape. I committed nearly every programming error now frowned on. Because static ram was $100 a kilobyte then (I built a 4 k ram board from a kit, along with the S-100 buss backplane it needed) I was not free to write run once code. So the list of programming no-no's was extensive, but at that point I had not ever seen a machine running a higher level language that didn't have 12,000 12au7 vacuum tubes in it. I had no assembler, I was looking up the hex code for the next instruction in the RCA published programmer's manual for the 1802 processor. So I: 1. used self modifying code just so I could re-run a loop with different data 2. used jumps liberally as that chip didn't have a call or return, those were actually short loops you initialized a different register to, and were used easily because any of its 16, 16 bit registers could become the program counter with 1 byte commands. 3. at the end, restored the modifications it made to itself before jumping back to the start to await the next button pushes on the operators pendant I also built. 4. Left good docs so the next guy might understand it in the event the next generation of tape machine it might be asked to control had different ballistics. This thing did a job that no other machine was capable of doing because no one realized that what it did was needed to be done, so it was not available in the broadcast oriented maker market. At 2 or 3 points I even considered going into business making it, but that market was for a maximum of under 1000 here in the states, so that never got to the how much $ would I need to get started point. The Production dept has just been completed on a new commercial, and its handed off to the people in the control room, to air on the schedule set by the traffic dept. But you've got an automatic station break machine controller, one that uses an audio tone on the 2nd audio channel to trigger what it does. These nominally 1 second tones need to be at first video -5 seconds, and again at the end of the commercial -5 seconds so if there is another commercial scheduled in the currant break, it can be started rolling and will be switched to when the 5 seconds is up. So this computer could drive the machine frame by frame in either direction, mark that frame as the first air frame by hitting another button of several that told it how long the commercial was (I rigged it for 10-15-30-60 2:00 minutes with different buttons) and allowed the 30 to be 29 secs 25 frames, that 5 frames pulled off everything. My program also drove a character generator I built with big enough characters which could also put a new, frame accurate academy leader, the countdown clock on the tape so the guys whose reflexes were good enough could cue the tape up themselves. I demanded power failure restoration to power failure restoration stability, even building in a UPS of sorts to cover short term glitches. That I got, and that little COSMAC (actually a Quest Elf) did that job, lowering the make goods by 90%, and was still doing it 15 years later when I last checked. In broadcasting, the tech marches on as it does, so to hear that it was still in use 15 years later sure put a VBWG on my face. But so far, and I've done a lot of while/endwhile loops in my code, I have not missed having a goto. The control structures we have are IMO more than sufficient to write the compact gcode that gets the job done. To me it beats the hell out of the gcode
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On Friday 03 October 2014 06:59:31 Erik Christiansen did opine And Gene did reply: On 03.10.14 10:29, andy pugh wrote: But, this leaves no scope for the (I shudder to mention this even amongst GOTO advocates) computed GOTO. ISTM that the computed GOTO went extinct around the time that the more structured switch statement invaded that ecological niche in the programming world. Since our cpus are sufficiently faster than the machinery they control, there is no tangible run-time cost to synthesising a switch and its cases with if ... elseif ... endif, I figure. So we can safely run away without opening Pandora's can of worms, as Gene might adroitly put it. Erik That is a mixed metafore but good for a chuckle. Fairly accurate, I would be the first to say I resemble that remark. I like it will assume its flowers. Thanks Erik. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Seems to me every language has a GOTO that is not called a GOTO rather the GOTO is embedded in an if/then etc Also, fortran is Formula Translation? If so, then every attempt at translating a mathematical algorithm into the 'language of choice' would necessarily 'look' like fortran. no? On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Friday 03 October 2014 06:59:31 Erik Christiansen did opine And Gene did reply: On 03.10.14 10:29, andy pugh wrote: But, this leaves no scope for the (I shudder to mention this even amongst GOTO advocates) computed GOTO. ISTM that the computed GOTO went extinct around the time that the more structured switch statement invaded that ecological niche in the programming world. Since our cpus are sufficiently faster than the machinery they control, there is no tangible run-time cost to synthesising a switch and its cases with if ... elseif ... endif, I figure. So we can safely run away without opening Pandora's can of worms, as Gene might adroitly put it. Erik That is a mixed metafore but good for a chuckle. Fairly accurate, I would be the first to say I resemble that remark. I like it will assume its flowers. Thanks Erik. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Addressee is the intended audience. If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private correspondence. Thank you for honoring my wish. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 3 October 2014 10:29, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: In the interpreter at the moment the loop ends are matched by number. O100 while - O100 endwhile etc. In the context of GOTO it guess that you would need an O101 GOTO to jump to your O101 LABEL. If you fancy having a go, the O-word behaviour is all coded here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_o_word.cc;h=084631e898b3ce00a9e5df5316b636fbe8bed1a8;hb=HEAD Interestingly, until I read the code I wasn't aware that we had O BREAK and O CONTINUE. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Seems to be briefly mentioned in the manual... http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:looping JT On 10/3/2014 7:14 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 3 October 2014 10:29, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: In the interpreter at the moment the loop ends are matched by number. O100 while - O100 endwhile etc. In the context of GOTO it guess that you would need an O101 GOTO to jump to your O101 LABEL. If you fancy having a go, the O-word behaviour is all coded here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_o_word.cc;h=084631e898b3ce00a9e5df5316b636fbe8bed1a8;hb=HEAD Interestingly, until I read the code I wasn't aware that we had O BREAK and O CONTINUE. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 03.10.14 12:06, andy pugh wrote: On 3 October 2014 11:38, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. You have seen the FORTRAN++ that makes up the bulk of the NML code in LinuxCNC then? Errr ... is that relevant to the context? It was a joke. Or an attempt at one. As far as I know there is no such language. Some bits of LinuxCNC is written in C++ that looks more like FORTRAN Sorry to spoil the joke by needing an explanation. I'm clearly a bit slow, here at the end of the week. Despite buying a couple of books on C++, about 20 years ago, I only ever wrote one program in the language. IIRC, Linus Torvalds refuses to let any of it into his kernel. That seems wise. Luckily, I never had to use it in several decades of developing embedded systems. My first defence was always especially with late binding, inheritance will emasculate our real-time performance. That was usually enough to make eager-to-be-with-it managers wander off dispiritedly. The sig, below, was another worry. But since the lauded benefits of OO mostly amount to increased cohesion and decreased coupling, I figured that with rigorous design discipline, C could provide similar maintainability attributes, but without the pain. (And anyway, I could estimate a C assembler project reliably enough to deliver on time. If we'd ever dived into C++, I'd be flying blind - and be answerable for having half a product when both time and money were gone.) There wouldn't be much of it in your engine controllers? Erik -- One of the pains that come with large C++ programs is that simply finding code can be difficult. It's not always clear which method will be invoked in a specific situation, http://lwn.net/Articles/370717/ -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On 3 October 2014 13:24, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: There wouldn't be much of it in your engine controllers? That used to all be C, now it is mainly auto-generated C produced from Simulink models. For some reason we get given the C (in pdf format!) rather than the model as documentation. Which seem like madness to me... -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
Understanding the history of where we came from is important to me to have a framework to see how to go into the future. The origins of the G-Code 'language' goes back to the use of paper tape (that is what my Dad used 40+ years ago and it was well established then). Yes, G-code isn't modern or structured inherently, it is a linear 'language' due to the limits of the media of the day. ( They used Baudot 5 level paper tape for control in Dad's day. They used a communications teletype that was generally available in the day. ) If you want a 'new' machine control language, GO FOR IT. Just don't expect it to immediately displace G-Code en mass. IMHO, glopping on OO or other 'better' language options/techniques onto LinuxCNC, or G-Code in general, would just generate an aberration. It is better to DESIGN a better control language that is inherently easy to learn, easy to use and extensible without having to re-code the core. It should generate 'good' and IMHO 'optimized' code (the definition of optimum will depend on machine configuration!). G-code is a good basis for a SIMPLE language (in todays terms) that can be interpreted at run-time by simple controllers and don't need large computers or control systems to drive them (we have all seen arduino g-code interpreters -- that has very few extensions!). LCNC needs a larger machine for it's versatility, and MACH runs on a common consumer OS and feels 'comfortable'. We have for the most part gotten away from people coding g-code directly (but it is still good to do some, IMHO, just so you know what the machines are really doing for you!) for the most part. It is being used for generic machine control for not just mills and routers but plotters and additive machines (think Makerbot and the ilk). LinuxCNC still has the ladder logic emulator that is very powerful and has been used for a LONG time in machine control of everything from Traffic Lights to injection molding machines, to just about any machine you can imagine. It is still VERY strong in the machine control industry. Think of your new language and not just in YOUR use, but as general for being a control systems language. My fuzzy crystal ball also sees any 'new' control systems being able to run as a consumer kiosk or 'maker appliance'. Select from a design in the 'cloud' or library, possibly change a parametric number or two, and make the item. Either using additive or subtractive technology, allowing for colors and different materials to be 'controlled' when making the items or parts of items. The appliance could be as simple as putting in a 'programming card' or pushing one of 4 buttons to 'see it made in front of you' like the old kiosks at state fairs. (I seem to remember plastic dinosaurs and airplanes being injection molded on demand in some of these over grown vending machines, but I am sure it is showing my age). Even with a quickly biodegradable polymer, to make new plates, cups, eating utensils for every meal that are not environmentally bad and have a open air half life of possibly 24 house or so, but are totally stable for 8 hours. -- back to this discussion, that is a materials issue and not a control systems issue like LCNC provides. Enough of a diatribe. ... I hope this helps spark someone into action rather than just murmuring among ourselves. Others will have better visions. If you do ... GO FOR IT! -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik -- Billy Huddleston Inner Vision *William Huddleston Inner Vision Development Corp* Office: 865.560.2752 Fax: 865.560.2703 http://www.ivdc.com *Development and Consulting... Simplified.* http://www.facebook.com/pages/Inner-Vision-Development/120023721424 http://twitter.com/ivdc http://www.linkedin.com/in/ivdccorp -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
OK, where are people staying? Not that it is critial we all stay the same place, but where are a majority of people staying? Can the locals recommend a decent place, maybe with a breakfast included? (If we have to go out to eat every morning, we end up eating too much...) I gotta book the room soon! Jon -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
The best practice is to put a diode right at the device that can cause the voltage spike.I usually use socket-ed relays and I put the diode across the coil screw terminals. The same with motor contactors and hydraulic/pneumatic solenoid valve coils that are driven by DC circuits. You can buy relays that have a built in suppressor diodes but they are cheap and easy to add.The last batch I bought was from Digikey and I think they were $.20 each or less. Dave On 10/3/2014 11:38 AM, Billy Huddleston wrote: Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
I just made my reservations (plane, hotel, rental car) last night. I'm staying at Candlewood Suites Houston I-10 East. It is 9 miles and about 15 minutes from TxRx according to Google Maps. It's a roughly $100 a night place. The down-town hotels that are closer are also much more expensive: $150 to $300. Reviews for the sub $100 places in Houston are pretty bad. With more local knowledge I could have probably found a cheaper place that is OK, but after a couple hours online I just made a decision. I'm arriving around 5pm Friday the 17th, and leaving early on Wed the 22nd. Looking forward to seeing everybody. John Kasunich On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 11:58 AM, Jon Elson wrote: OK, where are people staying? Not that it is critial we all stay the same place, but where are a majority of people staying? Can the locals recommend a decent place, maybe with a breakfast included? (If we have to go out to eat every morning, we end up eating too much...) I gotta book the room soon! Jon -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
On 10/03/2014 11:30 AM, John Kasunich wrote: I just made my reservations (plane, hotel, rental car) last night. I'm staying at Candlewood Suites Houston I-10 East. It is 9 miles and about 15 minutes from TxRx according to Google Maps. It's a roughly $100 a night place. The down-town hotels that are closer are also much more expensive: $150 to $300. Reviews for the sub $100 places in Houston are pretty bad. With more local knowledge I could have probably found a cheaper place that is OK, but after a couple hours online I just made a decision. OUCH! I just stayed at a really nice place in Kansas City and it was maybe $89 a night including ALL the taxes, fees, etc... OK, thanks for the recommendation! Anybody else? I'll be bringing the same old junk, but I have added a centering microscope using camview, and now can put it on either the Bridgeport or the minimill. (This needs a 10.04 Linux kernel, or at least I had no luck making it work on 8.04) I also will have a Beagle Bone with the CRAMPS board (designed by Charles Steinkuehler). I also want to learn about this uspace thing, looks like Jeff is not going to be there, but maybe somebody else knows about it. I'll bring a blank hard drive. Jon -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conditional code- GOTO
Mach4 has GOTO in the industrial version. Here is a short snip of how it works. (IF INITIAL FEEDRATE IS OMITTED) IF [#8 NE #0] GOTO20 #8 = #9 N20 seems pretty handy to me, and quite clear to read. ron ginger -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On Friday 03 October 2014 08:24:15 Erik Christiansen did opine And Gene did reply: On 03.10.14 12:06, andy pugh wrote: On 3 October 2014 11:38, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: said that a determined programmer can write fortran in any language. You have seen the FORTRAN++ that makes up the bulk of the NML code in LinuxCNC then? Errr ... is that relevant to the context? It was a joke. Or an attempt at one. As far as I know there is no such language. Some bits of LinuxCNC is written in C++ that looks more like FORTRAN Sorry to spoil the joke by needing an explanation. I'm clearly a bit slow, here at the end of the week. Despite buying a couple of books on C++, about 20 years ago, I only ever wrote one program in the language. IIRC, Linus Torvalds refuses to let any of it into his kernel. That seems wise. Luckily, I never had to use it in several decades of developing embedded systems. My first defence was always especially with late binding, inheritance will emasculate our real-time performance. That was usually enough to make eager-to-be-with-it managers wander off dispiritedly. The sig, below, was another worry. But since the lauded benefits of OO mostly amount to increased cohesion and decreased coupling, I figured that with rigorous design discipline, C could provide similar maintainability attributes, but without the pain. (And anyway, I could estimate a C assembler project reliably enough to deliver on time. If we'd ever dived into C++, I'd be flying blind - and be answerable for having half a product when both time and money were gone.) There wouldn't be much of it in your engine controllers? Erik That too is my take on C++. I have done several projects in C with compilers of various capabilities, even going so far as to finish a re- write of the os9 c.prep 20 years back, and which lasted until someone else found a missing piece about 3 years ago added it to my src's. But for ultimate speed, assembly to native code cannot be matched. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Uncondiftional , Conditional Program Jumps .
On Friday 03 October 2014 08:34:44 andy pugh did opine And Gene did reply: On 3 October 2014 13:24, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net wrote: There wouldn't be much of it in your engine controllers? That used to all be C, now it is mainly auto-generated C produced from Simulink models. For some reason we get given the C (in pdf format!) rather than the model as documentation. Which seem like madness to me... That fits my definition of insanity even if one knows the compilers output to the assembler well enough to stuff some of your own assembly tricks in. I have found a couple places where I can beat the compiler by 1/25th the execution time, in the compiler I am most familiar with. I took an rzsz build based on the Omen Tech source, from being able to process 275 characters a second on a 1.78 mhz cpu, to 720 cps on that same cpu clock by sticking some of my stuff into the output file going to the assembler. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
I booked a room at Baymont Inn Suites Houston Hobby Airport through Expedia for $42 a night. Unfortunately I may need to cancel and stay home as my wife will be 8 months pregnant. Now that I look at the reviews more carefully though, I'm not seeing anything positive about that motel. Moses On 10/03/2014 11:30 AM, John Kasunich wrote: I just made my reservations (plane, hotel, rental car) last night. I'm staying at Candlewood Suites Houston I-10 East. It is 9 miles and about 15 minutes from TxRx according to Google Maps. It's a roughly $100 a night place. The down-town hotels that are closer are also much more expensive: $150 to $300. Reviews for the sub $100 places in Houston are pretty bad. With more local knowledge I could have probably found a cheaper place that is OK, but after a couple hours online I just made a decision. I'm arriving around 5pm Friday the 17th, and leaving early on Wed the 22nd. Looking forward to seeing everybody. John Kasunich On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 11:58 AM, Jon Elson wrote: OK, where are people staying? Not that it is critial we all stay the same place, but where are a majority of people staying? Can the locals recommend a decent place, maybe with a breakfast included? (If we have to go out to eat every morning, we end up eating too much...) I gotta book the room soon! Jon -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Problem with 5i25 on D525MW
On Friday 03 October 2014 11:38:26 Billy Huddleston did opine And Gene did reply: Hey Guys, I have a D525MW setup.. using pport and I do use the PC's 12v supply to switch some relays.. and to handle a charge pump which has a integrated 5v relay If memory serves me. I'm doing away with the pport and moving to 5i25 + 7i76 setup.. and was planning on using the PC's 12v supply again.. but, after reading this.. I'm a tad concerned. Question.. Does the flyback diode have to be placed at the coils? or can one be placed at the supply, in front of all the relays? I'm be using DIN style relays.. or will the 7i76 handle that as the 12v from the PC will be used as field power ? Thanks, Billy Short answer is no, and so is the long answer. Speaking as the CET I am: Those diodes need to be as close to the coil as physically possible, right across the coil terminals or located on the lines on the pcb going to the terminals. for best response time considerations. Not beyind the coil, but between the coiul and its drive. Generally a 1n914 is sufficient for small coils, maybe a generic 1N4000 family for bigger coils, but if you can find something faster than a 1N4000 series, the rest of the circuit will applaud you. Schotkey would be even better as long as the normally applied coil voltage is within the schotkeys reverse ratings. Wow.. I really didn't think about this. On 10/03/2014 03:44 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On 02.10.14 10:04, Dave Cole wrote: I used 12V from PC for 7i76 field power (is it wrong?). In general Yes, but I have done it before to power external 12 volt devices. However, you should really use a separate power supply for field power. If you have a switch turning a relay or coil on and off that is connected to the 12 volt supply and you open the switch; The collapsing magnetic field in the relay will spike the power supply as the switch opens. (Think ignition coil.) You can get around that by putting diodes on your relay coils, but miss one diode and you may still take out your PC. On the (Ford) Falcon, model XD, the prototype LCD clocks were destroyed by the back EMF from switching off the relays on the ignition switch's Accessories line. How much back EMF? A bit over minus 1000 volts! As a supplier, we had no way to convince them to put flywheel diodes across the relay coils, so had to tweak the design of our nominally 12 Vdc electronic clock to handle the 1 kv. Separate power supplies for electronics and inductive loads is the only way I'm prepared to go, after that lesson. Erik Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conditional code- GOTO
That usage does NOT require a goto, a conventional if statement works: O100 if [#8 NE #0] #8 = #9 O100 endif If your goal is to either skip or execute some code based on a condition, a regular if/else/endif structure does the job, while still enforcing structured code and avoiding spaghetti. There are plenty of ways to use goto that are clean and structured. And every one of those ways is better done using if/else/endif or while/endwhile or do/while instead of goto. The things that can't be done with if/else/endif, while/endwhile, or do/while are typically the things that really shouldn't be done, and that lead to spaghetti code. On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 02:21 PM, Ron Ginger wrote: Mach4 has GOTO in the industrial version. Here is a short snip of how it works. (IF INITIAL FEEDRATE IS OMITTED) IF [#8 NE #0] GOTO20 #8 = #9 N20 seems pretty handy to me, and quite clear to read. ron ginger -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 01:19 PM, Jon Elson wrote: On 10/03/2014 11:30 AM, John Kasunich wrote: I just made my reservations (plane, hotel, rental car) last night. I'm staying at Candlewood Suites Houston I-10 East. It is 9 miles and about 15 minutes from TxRx according to Google Maps. It's a roughly $100 a night place. OUCH! I just stayed at a really nice place in Kansas City and it was maybe $89 a night including ALL the taxes, fees, etc... The $100 I mentioned above also included taxes, fees, etc. So the difference is $11 a night. -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
Oh, yes, I remember that one on trip advisor. 200 reviews: 11 excellent, 16 very good, 34 average and 34 poor. And 105 terrible. First review that popped up mentions not being able to sleep because of the fight going on in the parking lot. Next one mentioned the hookers coming and going at all hours... On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Moses McKnight wrote: I booked a room at Baymont Inn Suites Houston Hobby Airport through Expedia for $42 a night. Unfortunately I may need to cancel and stay home as my wife will be 8 months pregnant. Now that I look at the reviews more carefully though, I'm not seeing anything positive about that motel. Moses -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
not being able to sleep because of the fight going on in the parking lot. Next one mentioned the hookers coming and going at all hours... In other words: Onsite entertainment and full service! ;-) There was a Baymont Inn not far from my house that existed for a short period of time and now they advertise $120 per week or something like that. I was approached by a hooker at a Baymont Inn in Kentucky. For budget hotels, I've had good luck with Motel 6's across the country. Their website is usually cheaper than their walk up or phone in rates. They are not fancy, but they are all at about the same level of mediocrity and they always seem fairly safe. I've never seen a street fight or a hooker at one. Dave On 10/3/2014 4:02 PM, John Kasunich wrote: Oh, yes, I remember that one on trip advisor. 200 reviews: 11 excellent, 16 very good, 34 average and 34 poor. And 105 terrible. First review that popped up mentions not being able to sleep because of the fight going on in the parking lot. Next one mentioned the hookers coming and going at all hours... On Fri, Oct 3, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Moses McKnight wrote: I booked a room at Baymont Inn Suites Houston Hobby Airport through Expedia for $42 a night. Unfortunately I may need to cancel and stay home as my wife will be 8 months pregnant. Now that I look at the reviews more carefully though, I'm not seeing anything positive about that motel. Moses --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conditional code- GOTO
That usage does NOT require a goto, a conventional if statement works: He was simply pointing out the syntax. Of course a two line statement didn't need a goto. There are plenty of ways to use goto that are clean and structured. And every one of those ways is better done using if/else/endif or while/endwhile or do/while instead of goto. Thats an awful absolute statement! There are some cases where gotos are appropriate and FAR more clean then if/else/etc. I write code for a living and have one particular case that is a nightmare to solve w/o one. The LWIP stack uses them in a handful of places. Clean and non-offensive. I don't see why some are getting their panties in a wad over it. If someone wants to write code using it (or has existing code) what difference does it make to others? LCNC is about having more flexibility and freedom not less. If you don't like the taste of coffee fine, go drink your tea. But don't ban or look down on coffee drinkers because you don't like it. They achieve the exact same end goal. As it has been pointed out, commercial controls support it and if someone has an existing program that CANT be run on LCNC thats a big problem to that user. I wouldn't want to have to hand unwind, learn, and rewrite some old code that worked perfectly before. -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conditional code- GOTO
On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 04:26:46PM -0400, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: If someone wants to write code using it (or has existing code) what difference does it make to others? LCNC is about having more flexibility and freedom Wow this is bringing out strong feelings. The sticking point here, which I don't think is reflected in your message, is that if we want Oxxx GOTO, someone would have to implement it. Nobody has stepped up who wants to do that. If someone wants to, and it gets done in a sane way (I think the 0xxx LABEL ... 0xxx GOTO would be most consistent with the way our O words work), let's, as they say, thoughtfully consider the patch. But until someone wants to implement GOTO, can we all stop yelling about it? Chris -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC Fest - Houston, LODGING?
On 10/03/2014 03:02 PM, John Kasunich wrote: Oh, yes, I remember that one on trip advisor. 200 reviews: 11 excellent, 16 very good, 34 average and 34 poor. And 105 terrible. First review that popped up mentions not being able to sleep because of the fight going on in the parking lot. Next one mentioned the hookers coming and going at all hours... OK, I'll avoid that one, too! Not to mention all the aircraft noise from an airport that probably has flight operations going on all night. Jon -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conditional code- GOTO
The 200 branch go to: Many years ago,/in the days of punch cards and mainframes,/ I wrote, /in FORTRAN/ a complex radar system modeling/simulation tool to evaluate radar system designs in a variety of environments. The program used a large variety of signal generation and signal processing modules to predict how designs and design changes would change performance.. The program generated simulated radar returns from simple and complex targets (things we might want to see), clutter (the things in the environment we didn't want to see) and jamming (signals the enemy might generate to make things difficult) for radar configurations, and dynamics. (What comes out of radar antennas is dependent on the relative dynamics of anything that might be reflecting radar energy as well as antenna design and pointing. ) There were modules to generate the various radar returns for various conditions and designs. There were also modules to model the various signal processing elements in radar receivers, etc. The program flow was controlled by an integer array telling it what to do next after if finished each step using a 200 branch go to statement. It required a good understanding of radar systems and signal processing to run this program. It was used to aid the design of a number of radar and sonar systems. Thirty years after I left that company somebody told me they just found a bug in the program. They were still using it. Craig -- Meet PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance Requirements with EventLog Analyzer Achieve PCI DSS 3.0 Compliant Status with Out-of-the-box PCI DSS Reports Are you Audit-Ready for PCI DSS 3.0 Compliance? Download White paper Comply to PCI DSS 3.0 Requirement 10 and 11.5 with EventLog Analyzer http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=154622311iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
