Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 09:40:39 +0700
TJoseph Powderly  wrote:

> Nicklas, hello
> 
> 
> On 01/03/17 04:17, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I made local change to the hostmot2 stepper drivers to both send and 
> > receive absolute position encoder style. Behaviour could be changed with 
> > configuration parameter.
> do i think correctly ? the stepper gets position commands, not step & dir ?

Yes originally, but I made a small change to the driver so I could send 
absolute values, this was the simlest driver to modify. I only send like lower 
16 bits so it will be "encoder style".

> > The change is simple but I am still thinking about protocol because with 
> > interpolated position mode there is a need to set parameters. I read 
> > Profibus use same protocol on all media but it may be a little bit to 
> > complex and I do not know about parameters.
> does 'interpolated position mode' mean the position commands are delta? 
> dx dy dz commands

No delta, it is absolute values but only 16 bits so it will be like a 16 bit 
encoder counter.

> > CANopen have a dictionary which may be used for parameters and PDOs for 
> > real time data but I do not know if it is a good idea to use on other 
> > media. Via TCP/IP telnet may actually be a simple method to implement set 
> > parameters or a web server but a standard industrial protocol used with 
> > ordinary configuration tools are probably better.
> >
> new type drivers using 'standard ... protocols.. . with ordinary 
> configuration tools' is of benefit to larger non-edm audience

Yes I know, it will or are also used for other machines. For EDM feedback is 
needed but for other machines path is known beforehand and there could also be 
a small receive FIFO.

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Nicklas hello
> everybody is a novice in EDM, its just full of surprises ;-)
> 
> 'interpolated position mode' ...doesthis mean position loop in hardware?

No but it could as well be. It is position loop locally inside servo driver. It 
is ran twice each switching period, once for each switching flank.

It is rather simple to add interpolation between received position and average 
receive periods but I have not yet implemented.

To send values from encoder worked great so I figured it should work equally in 
other direction and then there is no limitation in size for position in 
protocol. It is a fast hack and I am right now thinking about a standard 
protocol.

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Re: [Emc-users] read analog input 7I76

[Jan Bos]

Hello Peter,

It works and I can read the value now. How can I scale this correctly? I
have a 0-5V input and need my GladeVcp bar to show Maximum at 5V input but
at 5V input it does not show maximum.
I looked at the 'scale' command but all examples and descriptions I could
find are for outputs and not for inputs.

Here is what I did: *net spindle-load  hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.analogin0 and
connected this to the Glade panel bar.*

*Could you explain how to use 'scale' correctly to scale this input to read
5V as maximum value for the Glade bar if needed at all.*

*Thanks,*

*G21*


On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Jan Bos  wrote:

> Thanks Peter, will free up these and try again. Will let you know if I
> have more issues getting this to work.
>
> G21
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Peter C. Wallace 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016, Jan Bos wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:49:33 +0800
>> > From: Jan Bos 
>> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> > 
>> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > et>
>> > Subject: [Emc-users] read analog input 7I76
>> >
>> > I am trying to read an analog input from a digital I/O pin on my 7I76.
>> > According to the manual this is possible albeit in 8 bit mode only
>> which is
>> > fine for me. I have a spindle drive that provides a 0 5V output for
>> spindle
>> > load and I want to read this and show this in my Glade sidepanel.
>> >
>> > The manual says:
>> > All field input pins are capable of reading the input voltage. These are
>> > not highly
>> > accurate or high resolution but can be useful for things like
>> potentiometer
>> > inputs. Input resolution is 8 bits and input full scale value is 36.3V.
>> > Accuracy is +-5%. Software process data modes 1 and 2 allow reading the
>> > analog voltage on inputs 0 through 3, in addition to the 32 digital bit
>> > inputs.
>> >
>> > I already used my 0 through 3 so I need to use one of my free inputs
>> left
>> > on the 7I76 and 8 bit resolution is fine for this.  I looked at PncConf
>> and
>> > there is no option to select an analog input for a digital I/O. I run
>> the
>> > card in mode 2 combined with a 6I25.
>> >
>> > How do I go about this and read an analog voltage from a digital I/O
>> pin on
>> > my 7I76?
>>
>> With standard 7I76 firmware you can only read analog data from inputs 0..3
>> so its easier to move some digital inputs around to free up 0..3
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > G21
>> > 
>> --
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>>
>> Peter Wallace
>> Mesa Electronics
>>
>> (\__/)
>> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
>> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[TJoseph Powderly]

Nicklas, hello


On 01/03/17 04:17, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> I made local change to the hostmot2 stepper drivers to both send and receive 
> absolute position encoder style. Behaviour could be changed with 
> configuration parameter.
do i think correctly ? the stepper gets position commands, not step & dir ?
> The change is simple but I am still thinking about protocol because with 
> interpolated position mode there is a need to set parameters. I read Profibus 
> use same protocol on all media but it may be a little bit to complex and I do 
> not know about parameters.
does 'interpolated position mode' mean the position commands are delta? 
dx dy dz commands
> CANopen have a dictionary which may be used for parameters and PDOs for real 
> time data but I do not know if it is a good idea to use on other media. Via 
> TCP/IP telnet may actually be a simple method to implement set parameters or 
> a web server but a standard industrial protocol used with ordinary 
> configuration tools are probably better.
>
new type drivers using 'standard ... protocols.. . with ordinary 
configuration tools' is of benefit to larger non-edm audience


thanks
tomp tjtr33

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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[TJoseph Powderly]

Nicklas hello
everybody is a novice in EDM, its just full of surprises ;-)

'interpolated position mode' ...doesthis mean position loop in hardware?

regards
Tomp tjtr33

On 01/03/17 01:34, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Me is novice on EDM but it seems you know what you are doing. I got digital 
> outputs connected on machine this weekend and will probably be able to test 
> this weekend.
>
> I have made my own servo drivers with interpolated position mode, response is 
> fast even though I have not yet perfected control loop. I read thru books 
> right now to get control loop as good as possible.
>
> If anyone else want interpolated position mode I could help modify linuxcnc 
> protocol, modification is simple.
>
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I made local change to the hostmot2 stepper drivers to both send and receive 
absolute position encoder style. Behaviour could be changed with configuration 
parameter.

The change is simple but I am still thinking about protocol because with 
interpolated position mode there is a need to set parameters. I read Profibus 
use same protocol on all media but it may be a little bit to complex and I do 
not know about parameters.

CANopen have a dictionary which may be used for parameters and PDOs for real 
time data but I do not know if it is a good idea to use on other media. Via 
TCP/IP telnet may actually be a simple method to implement set parameters or a 
web server but a standard industrial protocol used with ordinary configuration 
tools are probably better.


On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 19:40:29 +
Sarah Armstrong  wrote:

> Nicklas ,
> any changes  needed , i'd like to know
> 
> should we put a repro together , might make life easier
> 
> Sarah
> 
> On 2 January 2017 at 18:34, Nicklas Karlsson 
> wrote:
> 
> > Me is novice on EDM but it seems you know what you are doing. I got
> > digital outputs connected on machine this weekend and will probably be able
> > to test this weekend.
> >
> > I have made my own servo drivers with interpolated position mode, response
> > is fast even though I have not yet perfected control loop. I read thru
> > books right now to get control loop as good as possible.
> >
> > If anyone else want interpolated position mode I could help modify
> > linuxcnc protocol, modification is simple.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 23:53:55 +0700
> > TJoseph Powderly  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello
> > > video of early iteration of edm panel in use
> > > https://videobin.org/+fe8/jab.html
> > > i think an example of reading the db file needs to be done soon
> > > but a working model is better than just thinkin'
> > > thanks
> > > tomp tjtr33
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
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> > 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[andy pugh]

On 2 January 2017 at 20:04, Cecil Thomas  wrote:
> I don't know why this is the case unless the 5i25
> didn't exist when the docs were written

This is exactly it.
Initially there was just the 5i20 and the docs seem to have been
started on the assumption that is all there would ever be, and then
have been partially edited as this has changed.

The 5i20 is expensive and not very powerful, I can't think of any
reason that anyone would use one now when (for example) the 5i24 is
half the price for the same amount of IO.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[Cecil Thomas]

Andy,

Thanks for the info.

One of the things I noticed very early on as I 
was trying to work all this out by myself is that 
the 5i25 card is never mentioned in the documentation.
I see all kinds of examples etc. for 5i20 and 
other cards but 5i25 seems to be the red headed step child of documentation.

I don't know why this is the case unless the 5i25 
didn't exist when the docs were written or if it 
was not popular enough or if maybe the docs 
writer didn't have one on hand to play with.

I full well realize that if I already fully 
understood hm2 the lack of 5i25 info would not be 
a problem but at this time my only "window" into hm2 is the 5i25 and 7i78.

In my little world that's all there is!

Thanks again,
Cecil

At 10:54 AM 1/2/2017, you wrote:
>On 2 January 2017 at 15:47, andy pugh 
> wrote: > There is a 
>slightly better set of docs here: > 
>http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/drivers/hostmot2.html  
> > But it is very much out-of date. One way in 
>which is is out of date is in insisting that 
>only step-dir mode is supported by the driver, 
>whereas it is now possible to use all the modes 
>up to and including a 6-pin 16-step table 
>generated mode. -- atp "A motorcycle is a 
>bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
>designed for the especial use of mechanical 
>geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George 
>Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 
>-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Sarah Armstrong]

Nicklas ,
any changes  needed , i'd like to know

should we put a repro together , might make life easier

Sarah

On 2 January 2017 at 18:34, Nicklas Karlsson 
wrote:

> Me is novice on EDM but it seems you know what you are doing. I got
> digital outputs connected on machine this weekend and will probably be able
> to test this weekend.
>
> I have made my own servo drivers with interpolated position mode, response
> is fast even though I have not yet perfected control loop. I read thru
> books right now to get control loop as good as possible.
>
> If anyone else want interpolated position mode I could help modify
> linuxcnc protocol, modification is simple.
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 23:53:55 +0700
> TJoseph Powderly  wrote:
>
> > Hello
> > video of early iteration of edm panel in use
> > https://videobin.org/+fe8/jab.html
> > i think an example of reading the db file needs to be done soon
> > but a working model is better than just thinkin'
> > thanks
> > tomp tjtr33
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> --
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> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Me is novice on EDM but it seems you know what you are doing. I got digital 
outputs connected on machine this weekend and will probably be able to test 
this weekend.

I have made my own servo drivers with interpolated position mode, response is 
fast even though I have not yet perfected control loop. I read thru books right 
now to get control loop as good as possible.

If anyone else want interpolated position mode I could help modify linuxcnc 
protocol, modification is simple.


On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 23:53:55 +0700
TJoseph Powderly  wrote:

> Hello
> video of early iteration of edm panel in use
> https://videobin.org/+fe8/jab.html
> i think an example of reading the db file needs to be done soon
> but a working model is better than just thinkin'
> thanks
> tomp tjtr33
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[Sarah Armstrong]

Thanks Thomas , for the video , very interesting and informative too , i
learned some more lol
look forward to getting all this together

Sarah

On 2 January 2017 at 16:53, TJoseph Powderly  wrote:

> Hello
> video of early iteration of edm panel in use
> https://videobin.org/+fe8/jab.html
> i think an example of reading the db file needs to be done soon
> but a working model is better than just thinkin'
> thanks
> tomp tjtr33
>
>
>
> 
> --
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] EDM machining --> EDM generator signals

[TJoseph Powderly]

Hello
video of early iteration of edm panel in use
https://videobin.org/+fe8/jab.html
i think an example of reading the db file needs to be done soon
but a working model is better than just thinkin'
thanks
tomp tjtr33



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Re: [Emc-users] question on emi filters

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Its radiated noise from the motor supplies. Directly related to the 
> switching, which is at nominally 17 Kilohertz, but the harmonics reach 
> to well above 100 Megahertz. Never seen anything ring that way, 10 to 30 
> cycles to get down to 50% of the peak.

I think you need a common mode filter on motor cables to increase common mode 
impedance.

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Re: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[andy pugh]

On 2 January 2017 at 15:47, andy pugh  wrote:
> There is a slightly better set of docs here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
> But it is very much out-of date.

One way in which is is out of date is in insisting that only step-dir
mode is supported by the driver, whereas it is now possible to use all
the modes up to and including a 6-pin 16-step table generated mode.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[andy pugh]

On 2 January 2017 at 15:35, Cecil Thomas  wrote:
>   My experience has been that there is a presumption of comprehension
> in the documentation of hm2 that does not necessarily exist in the user (me).

There is a slightly better set of docs here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
But it is very much out-of date. The fault is mine, really, I added
support for a bunch of extra modules and never updated that file.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[Cecil Thomas]

Gregg,
I am using a common treadmill controller called an MC-60. I chose it 
after months of research and deliberation --NOT.
Actually it and the motor were in the treadmill that I was given to 
get it out of a friends house.  It is not four quadrant, just a 
simple scr drive, but it works just fine for my application. I do 
threading on this machine but not rigid tapping.

If you haven't installed the motor yet you will find that the 
treadmill motor's rated speed for the rated hp is probably around 
6000 rpm so you will either need to provide an additional stage of 
belt reduction to get you down to threading speed with enough torque 
to do the job.

Cecil


 >What controller are you using? I need one able to handle a 110 volt 
DC, 1.5HP treadmill motor. My 9x20 CNC conversion is on hold due to a 
lack of motor controller.


 >>I am running a cnc'd jet 9x20 lathe with a treadmill motor and dc 
motor controller with a 5k pot for speed control in manual.

 >>Thanks,
 >>Cecil


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[Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[Cecil Thomas]

Thanks Gene and Andy.  I believe Andy's answer is specific enough for 
me to implement and I will try it as soon as I get to the shop.
I am pretty slow on the software side of hal and hm2.  It is taking 
me a while to get my mind around the syntax.

  My experience has been that there is a presumption of comprehension 
in the documentation of hm2 that does not necessarily exist in the user (me).

 >(the docs are here, but could certainly be clearer, it's too 
complicated a subject to be properly covered by a simple manpage 
layout like that) 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#General%20Purpose%20I/O


 >>How and where do I 'invert the pwm'
 >>
<>Thanks,
 >>Cecil


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Re: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78

[andy pugh]

On 2 January 2017 at 04:39, Cecil Thomas  wrote:
> How and where do I 'invert the pwm'

The PWM signal appears to be on GPIO number 8 from the 5i25. So insert
this line in your HAL file somewhere:

setp hm2_5i25.0.gpio.008.invert_output 1

(the docs are here, but could certainly be clearer, it's too
complicated a subject to be properly covered by a simple manpage
layout like that)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#General%20Purpose%20I/O

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] wctho...@chartertn.net

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 January 2017 00:56:48 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> What controller are you using? I need one able to handle a 110 volt
> DC, 1.5HP treadmill motor. My 9x20 CNC conversion is on hold due to a
> lack of motor controller.

The best controller you can put in there is a Pico Systems pwm-servo. 
Rated to 20 amps & 160 volts, its a full 4 quadrant controller, capable 
of reversing the 1 hp on my mill in 4 or 5 hundred milliseconds. Quicker 
yet if I'd let it as I have some hal logic to make it a little gentler. 
I am feeding it about 126 volts dc from a bank of toroids driving a 50 
amp bridge and enough capacitance that I have to soft-start it else the 
turn on inrush will click a 25 amp breaker.

> For running the saddle I picked up a ball 
> screw linear actuator exactly the right length. It's pitch is 16mm per
> turn so I have a 2:1 reduction cogged belt. Full stepping on a 200
> step motor will get 0.04mm and half stepping will get 0.02mm
> resolution on the saddle. That should be good enough for many things.
> A 400 step motor would of course halve those. The 200 step Slo-Syn on
> it is rated 5% accuracy so trying any finer stepping likely wouldn't
> make the actual positioning any better.
>
> I used some corner brackets to mount the square body of the actuator
> to the front of the lathe and made an aluminum plate that bolts to the
> drive end of the actuator and the left end of the lathe bed to take
> thrust loads. I am attempting to do this on the cheap. I picked up the
> lathe for only $50, hardly any use on it. The linear actuator cost me
> more than the lathe. IIRC I paid $50 for the treadmill just to get the
> motor. Pieces of the motor mount and treadmill frame got cut and
> welded to form an adjustable mount on the back of the lathe. The
> original spindle pulley is turned down to press the treadmill's driven
> pulley onto. I did have it running with one of those little $19 PWM
> high voltage DC motor controllers from eBay. Problem was it couldn't
> be run too fast without turning the fuse into a light bulb, or a
> flashbulb. ;)
>
A familiar scene here in WV also.  One of Jon Elson's PWM-SERVO amps, and 
a 100-130 volt dc supply will Just Do It(TM)  The supply will need to be 
isolated so that the -common on the amp is at ground. You will probably 
find drive parts are fragile if you give that motor its head.  And pin 
the flywheel to the motor shaft as strongly as you can since a violent 
reversal will unscrew the flywheel from the motor shaft.
> I wanted to get a Denford Orac, until I saw a forum thread showing a
> teardown and retrofit of one. All those are is an 8" swing Compact 8
> clone with the back 3rd of the cross slide cut off. I did use that as
> inspiration for milling out the saddle to make room for a wee little
> ball screw nut. I'm keeping the full length of the cross slide to make
> it more useful, especially if I use gang tooling plates.
>
>
>   From: Cecil Thomas 
>  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>  Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2017 9:39 PM
>  Subject: [Emc-users] Inverting the PWM signal to mesa 7i78
>
> I am running a cnc'd jet 9x20 lathe with a treadmill motor and dc
> motor controller with a 5k pot for speed control in manual.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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