Re: [Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 22 June 2017 23:20:52 sa...@empirescreen.com wrote:

> It is waiting for an index..
>
Index signal from the encoder.00 right? Humm, shows in the board 
registration as encoder.00.Index, but its not mentioned in the hal file.  
Duh.

OTOH, the encoder man page says thats Phase-Z:
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 008 (P1-17): Encoder #0, pin Index (Input)

Which is the 3rd channel from the hall effects watching the 60 tooth gear 
on the spindle.

>From the man page:
motion.spindle-index-enable I/O BIT
For correct operation of spindle synchronized moves, this signal must be 
hooked to the index-enable pin of the spindle encoder.

And from the encoder man page:
  encoder.N.index-enable bit i/o
  When  true,  counts  and position are reset to zero on the 
next rising edge of Phase-Z.  At the same time, index-enable is reset to 
zero to indicate that the rising edge has occurred.

None of the above is hooked up in this hal file.

I think I can sort this tomorrow, if I'm not swimming, the talking heads 
are saying 2 to 3", possible flooding.  OTOH I'm a good 40 feet above 
the river. So I should be dry. :)

>
>
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:23:08 -0400
>
>  Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Thursday 22 June 2017 20:59:22 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings everybody;
> > >
> > > This same file ran on TLM just fine about 8 months back as I was
> > > making x drive parts for this Sheldon.
> > >
> > > But on the Sheldon, it pauses at the beginning of the g33.1 motion
> > > as if its waiting on motion.spindle-at-speed to go true, when in
> > > fact its been true all along.
> > >
> > > So my question then is, does motion.spindle-at-speed need an
> > > initial false input to "arm" its sensitivity to getting z motion
> > > started when it does go true?
> >
> > And before someone asks, yes, encoder.00.position is hooked to
> > motion.spindle-revs, and I can see it marching along with a halmeter
> > as the spindle turns.  The near module I used is set quite broad
> > because the motion.spindle.rps signal bears little relationship to
> > the actual speed because of the wide range of output speeds
> > available with an 8 speed gearshift between the motor and the
> > spindle.
> >
> > That is yet another problem that needs sorted, as I'd like to
> > develop a slowdown if the motors phase slip angle gets too high
> > because of a heavy load and too high a frequency from the vfd since
> > the torque does a vanishing act when the frequency is above 120Hz
> > with this motor.  Coil amperage falls off a cliff due to winding
> > inductance then.
> >
> > > Thanks folks.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

[samco]

It is waiting for an index..





On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:23:08 -0400
 Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Thursday 22 June 2017 20:59:22 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > Greetings everybody;
> >
> > This same file ran on TLM just fine about 8 months back as I was
> > making x drive parts for this Sheldon.
> >
> > But on the Sheldon, it pauses at the beginning of the g33.1 motion as
> > if its waiting on motion.spindle-at-speed to go true, when in fact its
> > been true all along.
> >
> > So my question then is, does motion.spindle-at-speed need an initial
> > false input to "arm" its sensitivity to getting z motion started when
> > it does go true?
> >
> And before someone asks, yes, encoder.00.position is hooked to 
> motion.spindle-revs, and I can see it marching along with a halmeter as 
> the spindle turns.  The near module I used is set quite broad because 
> the motion.spindle.rps signal bears little relationship to the actual 
> speed because of the wide range of output speeds available with an 8 
> speed gearshift between the motor and the spindle.
> 
> That is yet another problem that needs sorted, as I'd like to develop a 
> slowdown if the motors phase slip angle gets too high because of a heavy 
> load and too high a frequency from the vfd since the torque does a 
> vanishing act when the frequency is above 120Hz with this motor.  Coil 
> amperage falls off a cliff due to winding inductance then.
> 
> > Thanks folks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

[Todd Zuercher]

I think most "good" VFDs can do that automatically.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:23:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

On Thursday 22 June 2017 20:59:22 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings everybody;
>
> This same file ran on TLM just fine about 8 months back as I was
> making x drive parts for this Sheldon.
>
> But on the Sheldon, it pauses at the beginning of the g33.1 motion as
> if its waiting on motion.spindle-at-speed to go true, when in fact its
> been true all along.
>
> So my question then is, does motion.spindle-at-speed need an initial
> false input to "arm" its sensitivity to getting z motion started when
> it does go true?
>
And before someone asks, yes, encoder.00.position is hooked to 
motion.spindle-revs, and I can see it marching along with a halmeter as 
the spindle turns.  The near module I used is set quite broad because 
the motion.spindle.rps signal bears little relationship to the actual 
speed because of the wide range of output speeds available with an 8 
speed gearshift between the motor and the spindle.

That is yet another problem that needs sorted, as I'd like to develop a 
slowdown if the motors phase slip angle gets too high because of a heavy 
load and too high a frequency from the vfd since the torque does a 
vanishing act when the frequency is above 120Hz with this motor.  Coil 
amperage falls off a cliff due to winding inductance then.

> Thanks folks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 22 June 2017 20:59:22 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings everybody;
>
> This same file ran on TLM just fine about 8 months back as I was
> making x drive parts for this Sheldon.
>
> But on the Sheldon, it pauses at the beginning of the g33.1 motion as
> if its waiting on motion.spindle-at-speed to go true, when in fact its
> been true all along.
>
> So my question then is, does motion.spindle-at-speed need an initial
> false input to "arm" its sensitivity to getting z motion started when
> it does go true?
>
And before someone asks, yes, encoder.00.position is hooked to 
motion.spindle-revs, and I can see it marching along with a halmeter as 
the spindle turns.  The near module I used is set quite broad because 
the motion.spindle.rps signal bears little relationship to the actual 
speed because of the wide range of output speeds available with an 8 
speed gearshift between the motor and the spindle.

That is yet another problem that needs sorted, as I'd like to develop a 
slowdown if the motors phase slip angle gets too high because of a heavy 
load and too high a frequency from the vfd since the torque does a 
vanishing act when the frequency is above 120Hz with this motor.  Coil 
amperage falls off a cliff due to winding inductance then.

> Thanks folks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] spindle-at-speed being ignored

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings everybody;

This same file ran on TLM just fine about 8 months back as I was making x 
drive parts for this Sheldon.

But on the Sheldon, it pauses at the beginning of the g33.1 motion as if 
its waiting on motion.spindle-at-speed to go true, when in fact its been 
true all along.

So my question then is, does motion.spindle-at-speed need an initial 
false input to "arm" its sensitivity to getting z motion started when it 
does go true?

Thanks folks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
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Re: [Emc-users] following error only while homing

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 00:06:42 +0100
andy pugh  wrote:

> On 21 June 2017 at 19:36, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
> 
> > The stepgen is not computing following error it just cant be driven by a
> > position command with a stepwise discontinuity and move instantaneously to
> > the new position.
> 
> 
> I think it might be more interesting than that. Stepgen commanded position
> and encoder position track each other very well, and the f-error is small
> throughout.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qRVyQWFl4BIsSNKwy9IYsXrmZLTK8vgVVNX4tAuUmJM/edit?usp=sharing

Yes there could be a following error for stepper generator. I think it is like 
this, it output step frequency and number of stepped steps backs so there could 
be a difference. I modified stepper driver for my own card and also discovered 
decimal point is useful then stepping with a frequency close to servo loop. 
Without decimal there will be quite a lot of jitter then switching between 
integer number of steps and decimal point place flanks withing period. It might 
be step speed have been chosen to avoid jitter.

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Re: [Emc-users] following error only while homing

[andy pugh]

On 22 June 2017 at 00:19, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

>
> Only because the step was small (because it was probably not the first
> time homed)


Well, yes, but then the question is _why_ it is triggering the f-error
again.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 d metal printer

[theman whosoldtheworld]

welding 3d printing ...It seems more like a game ... when I was a teenager
during the summer job I did the welder ... it was fun to do this kind of
game ... obviously we never did a bridge ... otherwise the Boss would find
out!! ... I see it hard to do any kind of control that is not damaged by
sparks and fumes ... maybe the most futuristic thing is to use the gas of
the welding machine itself ... but this would eliminate the sparks only at
the cost of a disuse of gas. .. and the finishes would remain questionable.

bkt

2017-06-21 20:10 GMT+02:00 BRIAN GLACKIN :

> The name "concrete" is misleading.  The paste is more of a grout using fine
> aggregates whereas concrete typically has coarse aggregates.  With the
> absence of coarse aggregates, the vibration requirement is minimized.  As
> for reinforcement, simple paste as shown would be weak indeed unless they
> are adding fibers to the mix (glass, polyester, metal are typical) which
> would be likely in this case although not stated.  The "laminations" would
> likely impart some strength as well.
>
> As for fireproof, the structure has little in it (other than furnishings)
> that would be combustible.
>
> A final concern is the strength of the mix.  Typical cement mixes achieve
> ~15% of their strength in 24 hours (full strength in 28 days).  Again
> additives or high early strength mixes could be used which could solve
> that.  Either way, I would want the structure to fully "cure" prior to
> moving in.  That means for me waiting a month no matter how fast they print
> it.
>
> I find the technology interesting and in certain circumstances could be
> useful for developing structures in remote areas where transporting
> pre-engineered structures and or components might be cost prohibitive.
> Apic Cor has a video of them printing a "house" and how they reinforced and
> insulated the structure for -35C conditions.  Kinda smallish but it can
> easily be nested with other units to create office/work and or living
> spaces.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Nicklas Karlsson <
> nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > 3D concrete printing
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb3zuk1qNDk
> >
> > Without rebar and vibration concrete will be weak, maybe it's good enough
> > for a real firewall?
> >
> > 
> > --
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Re: [Emc-users] EMC traffic

[theman whosoldtheworld]

She looks a bit slow ... but she has many other qualities

bkt


2017-06-21 14:16 GMT+02:00 andy pugh :

> On 20 June 2017 at 08:50, Erik Christiansen 
> wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, I've found that the Postscript printer language is sorta
> > almost like gcode on steroids. Fighting with a GUI drawing package
> > gives me chest pains, without producing useful output,
> >
>
> Have you seen OpenSCAD? 3D CAD at the command line.
>
> An example usage: https://youtu.be/IPtF5c8o-10?t=4m30s
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - handling a 120v ac dip

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 22 June 2017 05:42:13 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Big SSR's are handy, so I keep at least 2 in the spare parts drawer.
>
And I should append that all of them I have used were born in China, and 
I have yet to destroy any of them.  The 2 in the spare parts drawer are 
for my next wild idea. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - handling a 120v ac dip

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 21 June 2017 22:37:28 Ralph Stirling wrote:

> The AQY280EH is optically isolated, but can only switch a low current
> load (130mA).  If you are switching a 60w bulb, you would need a
> several amp device to handle the in-rush current of a cold bulb.  I
> like to wire a "puck" type solid state relay (ssr) into an old metal
> outlet strip (that can be opened up, and that has room inside) or into
> a 4x4 metal junction box with a receptacle and cord.  A couple of
> small wires can be brought out for the low voltage control.
>
> If you need more detail, I can dig up some example ssr part numbers
> and sketch out the simple circuit for you.
>
I am using a similar circuit, 2 SSR's wide, to switch both sides of the 
254 volt feed that powers the VFD and stepper supplies on this Sheldon 
lathe.  These are the 40 amp versions because there is a considerable 
inrush when powering up the supplies. mpja.com has several sizes of such 
devices, all of which can be controlled by the 3 volt or more signal 
from most any breakout board.

Because the inrush was so high on my mill, I had to soft start the 
spindle motor supply else it would trip a 20 amp breaker starting it.  
So the first stage starts with a 100 ohm 200 watt resistor to limit the 
current, then about 4 seconds later, enables the 2nd SSR which connects 
it directly.  The mill, working, draws about 3.5 amps.

Big SSR's are handy, so I keep at least 2 in the spare parts drawer.

> -- Ralph
>
> On Jun 21, 2017 12:03 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am just a tinkerer so I'm looking for advice. I have a project using
> an ESP8266 to control a light. I am using a Panasonic AQY280EH to
> switch the light. What is the safe protocol for mounting and
> connecting a device that is using a high voltage.
>
> --
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - handling a 120v ac dip

[andy pugh]

On 22 June 2017 at 03:37, Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> I like to wire a "puck" type solid state relay (ssr)


There are lots of these on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201370409744 for
example

Most of these are fake. For example one I bought rated 40A contained an 16A
device.
But then, when you compare to a genuine 15A device, they are still quite
cheap:
http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Crydom/RPC2415
Of course, the rest of the engineering in the eBay fakes is probably
equally bogus.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - handling a 120v ac dip

[Ralph Stirling]

The AQY280EH is optically isolated, but can only switch a low current load 
(130mA).  If you are switching a 60w bulb, you would need a several amp device 
to handle the in-rush current of a cold bulb.  I like to wire a "puck" type 
solid state relay (ssr) into an old metal outlet strip (that can be opened up, 
and that has room inside) or into a 4x4 metal junction box with a receptacle 
and cord.  A couple of small wires can be brought out for the low voltage 
control.

If you need more detail, I can dig up some example ssr part numbers and sketch 
out the simple circuit for you.

-- Ralph

On Jun 21, 2017 12:03 PM, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
I am just a tinkerer so I'm looking for advice. I have a project using an
ESP8266 to control a light. I am using a Panasonic AQY280EH to switch the
light. What is the safe protocol for mounting and connecting a device that
is using a high voltage.

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