Re: [Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Linden]

This is the ppa i was refering too there is Freecad-Stable and Freecad-daily 
builds. 

https://launchpad.net/~freecad-maintainers/+archive/ubuntu/freecad-stable

On January 2, 2021 8:53:13 PM PST, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>On Saturday 02 January 2021 22:02:19 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> You are using the "Alpha" version and complaining of problems?  There
>> are new problems every week.  I just checked the "known problems"
>list
>> and #1 is "crashes on startup".
>>
>> To install the stable version it is simply "sudo apt-get install
>> freecad"
>>
>Which gets you the 3 yo .18 version, and not built as an appimage.  And
>
>that's had around 300 megs of additional code committed since then and 
>has been made a/o v.18 that you can get from freecad, into an AppImage 
>that is totally self contained and has never crashed. The current dl of
>
>that appimage which is assembled when you request the dl, is running 
>right now and has been for around 3.5 hours now. If it crashes, then
>I'd 
>submit that the user didn't install it correctly.  I put AppImages like
>
>it and cura, in their own AppImages subdir of /home/me and have only
>had 
>one cura-4.7.1 crash, which has not repeated after using its updater to
>
>bring it up to 4.8.0. 4.7.1 was the crasher and it lasted less than a 
>week before 4.8.0 was released.
>
>Yes, AppImages are bulky, but they are entirely self contained for ALL 
>dependencies.  If you've the drive space, its the way to go.
>
>I also have DeskProtoCAD as an appimage, but it will be wiped at some 
>point, they want it to be paid for before it will run. Screw that, I am
>
>not that impressed that I'll buy that pig in a poke sight unseen. 
>Particularly since its appimage is less than 10% of the freecad 
>appimage.  That boat sailed a long time ago.
>
>Thanks, Have a better 2021 Chris, & stay well.
>
>Cheers, Gene Heskett
>-- 
>"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
>respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
>Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Linden]

There is a ppa for the daily build of freecad. I have been using that for a few 
years now. It seems pretty stable for the most part and any bugs i have come 
across have been delt with or a work around found in a day or two.

On January 2, 2021 7:02:19 PM PST, Chris Albertson  
wrote:
>You are using the "Alpha" version and complaining of problems?  There
>are
>new problems every week.  I just checked the "known problems" list and
>#1
>is "crashes on startup".
>
>To install the stable version it is simply "sudo apt-get install
>freecad"
>
>On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 2:13 PM Gene Heskett 
>wrote:
>
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> Its been about 3 months since I last tried to run the freecad-19
>appimage
>> and the first thing i wanted to do was about 800 patches since the
>last
>> update.
>>
>> But the progress bar has been stuck at 94% for about 50 minutes now,
>> while I see an occasional write to the main drive, and it bounces
>around
>> at about a 2% cpu max in the htop view, it doesn't seem to be making
>any
>> more progress.
>>
>> Has this been observed by other freedcad users?  Or should I just
>wait it
>> out?
>>
>> I'm thinking its time to kill it, nuke the appimages in that
>directory
>> and download the whole thing fresh.  I don't have anything precious
>in
>> its cache.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
>respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>
>
>-- 
>
>Chris Albertson
>Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] using STMBL without high-power drivers

[John Dammeyer]

This sort of thing has come up before.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/34445-custom-board-for-smart-serial-interface


> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> Sent: January-02-21 8:15 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] using STMBL without high-power drivers
> 
> I'm intrigued with the thought of using the STMBL
> code on simple hardware without the high-power
> (unobtainable) igbt devices.  In fact, I'm more
> interested in using it as a versatile interface between
> various devices and the SmartSerial interface.
> Distributed I/O, small brush or brushless motors,
> teach pendants, analog I/O, and the like.  I've
> cloned the git repository, downloaded the gcc-arm
> toolchain, and successfully compiled the existing
> code (totally error free, to my pleasant surprise).
> 
> Has anybody out there in LinuxCNC land played
> with the STMBL code on something like the
> STM32F401 eval board?  I have one of those on
> my shelf.
> 
> Thanks, and Happy New Year to all of you out there.
> -- Ralph
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 02 January 2021 22:02:19 Chris Albertson wrote:

> You are using the "Alpha" version and complaining of problems?  There
> are new problems every week.  I just checked the "known problems" list
> and #1 is "crashes on startup".
>
> To install the stable version it is simply "sudo apt-get install
> freecad"
>
Which gets you the 3 yo .18 version, and not built as an appimage.  And 
that's had around 300 megs of additional code committed since then and 
has been made a/o v.18 that you can get from freecad, into an AppImage 
that is totally self contained and has never crashed. The current dl of 
that appimage which is assembled when you request the dl, is running 
right now and has been for around 3.5 hours now. If it crashes, then I'd 
submit that the user didn't install it correctly.  I put AppImages like 
it and cura, in their own AppImages subdir of /home/me and have only had 
one cura-4.7.1 crash, which has not repeated after using its updater to 
bring it up to 4.8.0. 4.7.1 was the crasher and it lasted less than a 
week before 4.8.0 was released.

Yes, AppImages are bulky, but they are entirely self contained for ALL 
dependencies.  If you've the drive space, its the way to go.

I also have DeskProtoCAD as an appimage, but it will be wiped at some 
point, they want it to be paid for before it will run. Screw that, I am 
not that impressed that I'll buy that pig in a poke sight unseen. 
Particularly since its appimage is less than 10% of the freecad 
appimage.  That boat sailed a long time ago.

Thanks, Have a better 2021 Chris, & stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] using STMBL without high-power drivers

[Ralph Stirling]

I'm intrigued with the thought of using the STMBL
code on simple hardware without the high-power
(unobtainable) igbt devices.  In fact, I'm more
interested in using it as a versatile interface between
various devices and the SmartSerial interface.
Distributed I/O, small brush or brushless motors,
teach pendants, analog I/O, and the like.  I've
cloned the git repository, downloaded the gcc-arm
toolchain, and successfully compiled the existing
code (totally error free, to my pleasant surprise).

Has anybody out there in LinuxCNC land played
with the STMBL code on something like the
STM32F401 eval board?  I have one of those on
my shelf.

Thanks, and Happy New Year to all of you out there.
-- Ralph

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Re: [Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Chris Albertson]

You are using the "Alpha" version and complaining of problems?  There are
new problems every week.  I just checked the "known problems" list and #1
is "crashes on startup".

To install the stable version it is simply "sudo apt-get install freecad"

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 2:13 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> Its been about 3 months since I last tried to run the freecad-19 appimage
> and the first thing i wanted to do was about 800 patches since the last
> update.
>
> But the progress bar has been stuck at 94% for about 50 minutes now,
> while I see an occasional write to the main drive, and it bounces around
> at about a 2% cpu max in the htop view, it doesn't seem to be making any
> more progress.
>
> Has this been observed by other freedcad users?  Or should I just wait it
> out?
>
> I'm thinking its time to kill it, nuke the appimages in that directory
> and download the whole thing fresh.  I don't have anything precious in
> its cache.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 02 January 2021 17:11:27 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> Its been about 3 months since I last tried to run the freecad-19
> appimage and the first thing i wanted to do was about 800 patches
> since the last update.
>
> But the progress bar has been stuck at 94% for about 50 minutes now,
> while I see an occasional write to the main drive, and it bounces
> around at about a 2% cpu max in the htop view, it doesn't seem to be
> making any more progress.
>
> Has this been observed by other freedcad users?  Or should I just wait
> it out?
>
> I'm thinking its time to kill it, nuke the appimages in that directory
> and download the whole thing fresh.  I don't have anything precious in
> its cache.
>
I killed it, tried the update again. this time it hung at 87%, kill t, 
wiped it and downloaded the alpha 19 again. Now I have questions to ask 
the forum, but they don't like my nickname.
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Sven Wesley]

Den lör 2 jan. 2021 22:11andy pugh  skrev:

> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 20:17, Sven Wesley  wrote:
>
> > Going back to original post from Andy, Mazak has some pretty funky GUIs
> > nowadays too.
> >
> https://mazakfiles.blob.core.windows.net/web-site/image/403f2cf63ed244ebbd11b6e32a8d8051/PreviewG_image_1.png
>
> I think that looks a little _too_ funky :-)
>
> What I liked about the original one I posted was the very good
> integration of touch.
>

Yeah agree. Not sure I wanna buy a 20 ton machine with a Call of Duty UI...
I like the Datron style, it is very clean and utilises the entire screen in
a good way (no empty spots).

>

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[Emc-users] updating freecad appimage?

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Its been about 3 months since I last tried to run the freecad-19 appimage 
and the first thing i wanted to do was about 800 patches since the last 
update.

But the progress bar has been stuck at 94% for about 50 minutes now, 
while I see an occasional write to the main drive, and it bounces around 
at about a 2% cpu max in the htop view, it doesn't seem to be making any 
more progress.

Has this been observed by other freedcad users?  Or should I just wait it 
out?

I'm thinking its time to kill it, nuke the appimages in that directory 
and download the whole thing fresh.  I don't have anything precious in 
its cache.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 20:17, Sven Wesley  wrote:

> Going back to original post from Andy, Mazak has some pretty funky GUIs
> nowadays too.
> https://mazakfiles.blob.core.windows.net/web-site/image/403f2cf63ed244ebbd11b6e32a8d8051/PreviewG_image_1.png

I think that looks a little _too_ funky :-)

What I liked about the original one I posted was the very good
integration of touch.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 02 January 2021 12:56:40 Chris Albertson wrote:

> The noise is caused by tooth shape.  I think the sound is caused by
> air getting pushed out of the grove in the belt and pulley and very
> high rates and then the teeth slamming together.   A lower precision
> printed pulley would interlock tighter with the belt.   The slamming
> would be a little harder.If noise were important, you would select
> a more modern rounded tooth shape.  Profiles like GT2 have less noise
> and less "slip" and a bit more strength for the same size belt. and
> importantly the teeth don't slam together   On these belts the
> belt/pulley interface is much like a sine wave rather than a square
> wave.
>
> I run GT2 timing belts as fast as the stepper motor can go and don't
> hear any belt noise.  All the noise comes from the motor.
>
That's been my experience too. But because of a lack of holding power, 
and availability of better 2m542 drivers, I replaced the super small 
nema23 on the 6040's supplied A axis with a longer, more powerfull 270 
oz/in. But the holding power is still inadequate, so my next step will 
be to turn the motor around so it projects from the rear instead of 
beside the chuck, and replace the relative large motor pulley with a 
smaller one and wrapper idlers, and add about 20 teeth to the axle 
pulley as its way small for the room it has to swing.

I can't imagine ever needing the nominally 20 rpm it can do with the 
present setup. By putting a 2NM 3 phase on it, I'd guess I'd triple the 
holding power as it will use whatever current it takes, as opposed to 
the 2 phase's currant turn down when at rest, the 3 phasers use whatever 
it takes until they've hit their unstated current limit.

Interestingly if you buy the pair from ebay, circa $130 + ship, both the 
2 and the 3 come with the exact same driver.

Or better yet, make some feet for one of the smaller worm drives so the 
motor hangs out the side. I have 2 of the medium sized drives but I'm 
not sure the gantry would clear one of those. Eyeballs, they say no. My 
biggest problem with those worm drives is the total lack of any means of 
mesh adjustment to compensate for wear. Ditto for the motor I put on the 
BS-1. The biggest slop there is in the BS-1, but its worm is adjustable 
so it at the moment has no detectable backlash.

> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:54 PM  
wrote:
> > On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I have noticed the 3D
> > > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.
> >
> > I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will
> > inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?
> >
> > > But the noisy grind
> > > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> >
> > Got to be a bonus.
> >
> > > More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.
> >
> > Looking forward to that. Following this topic with interest.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting GUI

[Sven Wesley]

6 sep. 2020 kl 22:16 skrev Kurt Jacobson :

> Aaron Dargel has been working on some pretty neat conversation widgets for
> QtPyVCP based ProbeBasic GUI.
> So far his just don't basic things like hole circles and facing ops, but
> they have excellent sanity checking that makes them almost foolproof to
> use.
> There are some screenshots here:
> https://github.com/kcjengr/qtpyvcp/pull/49
>
>
Going back to original post from Andy, Mazak has some pretty funky GUIs
nowadays too.
https://mazakfiles.blob.core.windows.net/web-site/image/403f2cf63ed244ebbd11b6e32a8d8051/PreviewG_image_1.png

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Re: [Emc-users] hy_vfd vs crc errors running at 38400 baud

[Chris Albertson]

With 485, the third wire is optional.  It is recommended if the grounds at
the two endpoints are not "close"   The signals are voltage referenced not
current referenced

Because 485 can have such long cable runs (over a kilometer) the grounds in
each building might be very different, if so you need the ground reference
wire. But a short cable in one room, I think two wires works as long as
all the power supply share a common ground reference.

I think using TTL levels works OK with many RS-232 systems but I doubt it
would work well with 485.  You need a "real" differential driver that can
send negative volts.

There is no need to guess and experiment if you have a dual channel
'scope.  Look at the far end of the cable and see if symmetric voltages
with nice square edges are present.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 9:27 AM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: nk@nksb.online [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> > Den Fredag, Januari 01, 2021 06:03 CET, skrev Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>:
> > �I don't know much about RS485 but I did read that the current return
> path
> > is required. You should be able to send and about 100K up to 4000 feet.
> >
> > RS-485 use differential signals, currents flowing in differention
> directions so return path is in the other conductors. A termination is
> > needed, should be easy to find how it should be made ib internet once
> you know it's needed.
> >
>
> As Dan stated RS485 changes the polarity of the signal so current flows
> from Pin A to Pin B for one logic level and from Pin B to Pin A for the
> other.  Unlike CAN bus, a ground is _not_ needed.
>
> But there are several rules to follow.  One of them is the impedance of
> the cable should be in the neighborhood of 100 Ohms.  Using 50 Ohm cable is
> pushing it.
>
> The cable, with twisted pair is a transmission line and as such needs to
> be terminated across the A,B pins with a resistor that matches the cable
> impedance.  So a 50 ohm cable needs a 50 Ohm resistor at each end.  That's
> a parallel combination of 25 Ohms load plus the 2x 12K receiver input
> impedance.  For now forget the input.
>
> Differential output from the TI SN75176 data sheet at 54 Ohms is Typically
> 2.4V.  So 2.4/54=44mA.
>
> Now use two 50 Ohm resistors and 2.4V/25 Ohms = 96mA which exceeds the
> maximum drive current.  Assume the low output voltage of 1.7V/25 Ohms and
> you get 68 mA which is still 8mA above max.
>
> If you don't use 50 ohm resistors on 50 Ohm impedance cable then you get
> reflections from the edges of the data signals.  Again, might not be a big
> deal on a short cable or even a long one.  But the right combination of 1's
> and zero's might well create a travelling wave that randomly distorts the
> signal with no repeatability or possibility of testing.
>
> I suggest finding a piece of cable that is rated at 100 Ohm or 120 Ohm
> impedance (twisted pair) and using that with proper resistors at each end.
>
>
> Say you google "shielded twisted pair cables" and chose the link for the
> Beldon 9451.  Seems pretty good from the Digikey spec list except they
> interestingly don't list the impedance.  For that you need to download the
> Beldon data sheet and there you find the characteristic impedance is 45
> Ohms.  That' pretty typical.
>
> Now add 100 Ohm to the search "shielded twisted pair 100 Ohm cables"
> First hit is for 9501.  You have to look carefully to see it's 75 Ohm.
>
> There are other brands.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Sven Wesley]

Den lör 2 jan. 2021 kl 20:27 skrev John Dammeyer :

> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > I've seen CAD models of the complete Bridgeport machine on GrabCad.   It
> > really is helpful to have a good model so you can test-fit parts before
> you
> > make them.
> >
> > I found a model of my Harbor Fright minimill so now I can able to make
> > add-on parts that match the screw-holes on the mill, first try.   Yes I
> had
> > the verify the model.   I would not trust something I downloaded.
> >
> > I know what you said about dropping the z-axis faster than gravity
> allows.
> >   I'm using a ball screw for that.  Turns out the Chinese ball screws are
> > cheap and actually better than spec'd.
> >
> Mine is equivalent to a Grizzly Tools G3616 now no longer made.  And in
> Canada House of Tools is long gone.  The first thing I need to do is swap
> the XY with ball screws.  There's a guy in Australia that did a major
> rework on this machine so he has some good videos and ideas.
>
> Needless to say there is no 3D rendering of the entire machine.  I started
> on that about 8 years ago when I first got AlibreCAD.  Now I might move
> forward with that and do some more.
>
> The knee assembly is just the screw and pulleys.  The Y axis has a
> truncated Knee casting since a full one would get in the way of seeing
> things, even with transparency.   And I only did enough of the X axis to
> make sure things looked right.
>
> Haven't yet figured out how to create an assembly that has a toothed belt
> that can be animated.  I'm sure it's possible.  But is it really worth the
> time...
>
> I've also modeled several different ways to do ball screws.  The X axis
> has over 0.012" of backlash.  Aggressive climb milling will pull the
> table.  So ball screws are next on the list once I bundle up rest of the
> control cabinet.
>
> I now have enough AC Servos for the other axis but for now that would be
> repeating what already works.  X and Y are DC brushed servos driven with
> HP_UHU kits. (I have two spares of those too).
>
> And  pump oiler that still needs to be installed and plumbed.
>
> John
>

I made HTD5 pulleys two years something ago. We made an automation machine
that needed bigger pulleys that we could find so I 3D printed one, sanded
it slightly to smooth the grooves, made a silicone mould from it and then
made two copies in GF powder reinforced epoxy. They are rock solid and the
machins runs on a daily basis.

/Sven

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> I've seen CAD models of the complete Bridgeport machine on GrabCad.   It
> really is helpful to have a good model so you can test-fit parts before you
> make them.
> 
> I found a model of my Harbor Fright minimill so now I can able to make
> add-on parts that match the screw-holes on the mill, first try.   Yes I had
> the verify the model.   I would not trust something I downloaded.
> 
> I know what you said about dropping the z-axis faster than gravity allows.
>   I'm using a ball screw for that.  Turns out the Chinese ball screws are
> cheap and actually better than spec'd.
> 
Mine is equivalent to a Grizzly Tools G3616 now no longer made.  And in Canada 
House of Tools is long gone.  The first thing I need to do is swap the XY with 
ball screws.  There's a guy in Australia that did a major rework on this 
machine so he has some good videos and ideas.

Needless to say there is no 3D rendering of the entire machine.  I started on 
that about 8 years ago when I first got AlibreCAD.  Now I might move forward 
with that and do some more.

The knee assembly is just the screw and pulleys.  The Y axis has a truncated 
Knee casting since a full one would get in the way of seeing things, even with 
transparency.   And I only did enough of the X axis to make sure things looked 
right.

Haven't yet figured out how to create an assembly that has a toothed belt that 
can be animated.  I'm sure it's possible.  But is it really worth the time...

I've also modeled several different ways to do ball screws.  The X axis has 
over 0.012" of backlash.  Aggressive climb milling will pull the table.  So 
ball screws are next on the list once I bundle up rest of the control cabinet.

I now have enough AC Servos for the other axis but for now that would be 
repeating what already works.  X and Y are DC brushed servos driven with HP_UHU 
kits. (I have two spares of those too).

And  pump oiler that still needs to be installed and plumbed.

John
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Chris Albertson]

I've seen CAD models of the complete Bridgeport machine on GrabCad.   It
really is helpful to have a good model so you can test-fit parts before you
make them.

I found a model of my Harbor Fright minimill so now I can able to make
add-on parts that match the screw-holes on the mill, first try.   Yes I had
the verify the model.   I would not trust something I downloaded.

I know what you said about dropping the z-axis faster than gravity allows.
  I'm using a ball screw for that.  Turns out the Chinese ball screws are
cheap and actually better than spec'd.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:38 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
>
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > I have noticed the 3D
> > > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.  But the noisy grind
> > > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> >
> > That's also worthwhile. I've also found the downloadable pulley making
> > code, like from thingiverse, generates pretty sloppy pulleys. Bound to
> > be noisy when the tooth fill is only 25%. But I don't know how to fix
> > the src code for those parametric composers. So after about 6 passes at
> > making pulleys, I ordered alu ones.
>
> I have XML pulleys on the XY axis but those are 1.27NM motors.  The Knee
> has a 3.5NM because that's what the 7.5NM Stepper motor dropped to at 300
> RPM when it would skip steps.  Especially with the bigger heavier vise and
> Rotary table.
>
> But the L type pulleys and belt were a gift from a friend so that's what I
> used.  The issue I ran into because I didn't do my homework before I
> ordered the motor was the shaft diameter of 19mm (roughly 3/4").
>
> The 12T pulley is just too small to also have a key and enough 'meat' for
> the pulley teeth.  As it was I pivoted the key slot by 6 degrees from the
> imported STEP drawing so if I ran a set screw through the tooth there's bee
> enough material for threads.  Anchoring the key from the tooth slot didn't
> create enough material.  See attached photo.
>
> Fine if there's room for a larger diameter hub.  Unfortunately I had to
> scrap that design because the belt didn't line up.  Couldn't move the motor
> back.  Couldn't move the upper pulley forward.   Had to redesign with a 15T
> pulley so I can get a set screw through the tooth crest.
>
> John
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > I have noticed the 3D
> > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.  But the noisy grind
> > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> 
> That's also worthwhile. I've also found the downloadable pulley making
> code, like from thingiverse, generates pretty sloppy pulleys. Bound to
> be noisy when the tooth fill is only 25%. But I don't know how to fix
> the src code for those parametric composers. So after about 6 passes at
> making pulleys, I ordered alu ones.

I have XML pulleys on the XY axis but those are 1.27NM motors.  The Knee has a 
3.5NM because that's what the 7.5NM Stepper motor dropped to at 300 RPM when it 
would skip steps.  Especially with the bigger heavier vise and Rotary table.

But the L type pulleys and belt were a gift from a friend so that's what I 
used.  The issue I ran into because I didn't do my homework before I ordered 
the motor was the shaft diameter of 19mm (roughly 3/4").  

The 12T pulley is just too small to also have a key and enough 'meat' for the 
pulley teeth.  As it was I pivoted the key slot by 6 degrees from the imported 
STEP drawing so if I ran a set screw through the tooth there's bee enough 
material for threads.  Anchoring the key from the tooth slot didn't create 
enough material.  See attached photo.

Fine if there's room for a larger diameter hub.  Unfortunately I had to scrap 
that design because the belt didn't line up.  Couldn't move the motor back.  
Couldn't move the upper pulley forward.   Had to redesign with a 15T pulley so 
I can get a set screw through the tooth crest.

John


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> The noise is caused by tooth shape.  I think the sound is caused by air
> getting pushed out of the grove in the belt and pulley and very high rates
> and then the teeth slamming together.   A lower precision printed pulley
> would interlock tighter with the belt.   The slamming would be a little
> harder.If noise were important, you would select a more modern rounded
> tooth shape.  Profiles like GT2 have less noise and less "slip" and a bit
> more strength for the same size belt. and importantly the teeth don't slam
> together   On these belts the belt/pulley interface is much like a sine
> wave rather than a square wave.
> 
> I run GT2 timing belts as fast as the stepper motor can go and don't hear
> any belt noise.  All the noise comes from the motor.

The plan is to go to the rounded shape as previously suggested.  The issue is 
cost and making dumb decisions that then cost.  So initially I wanted to be 
sure that the motor and the knee would behave and the cheapest way was 16 
minutes worth of Natural gas (240k BTU foundry) and old window frame extrusion 
ingots.

And so far maybe a 1/4 of a reel of 1.75mm PLA.  

Oh and one 6mm drill bit that snapped off when the 6mm clearance hight I'd 
programmed in didn't take into consideration the flat washer under the hold 
down bolt.  And of course to go to the first drill location it went straight 
across that 7.5mm high point and half the drill bit went flying.

I'm only out a little bit of time really and it's been very educational.  

For example this time I ran the CAD/CAM as a metric drawing and G-Code so G21 
was needed.  And the Tick Box on the Axis display to show mm.  But for some 
reason yet to be discovered, the HB04 USB wired pendent still showed and did 
everything in inches.

Now that I have everything somewhat functional and it appears to work well with 
only 3.2:1 instead of the targeted 4:1 I can look into metal pulleys.  Even the 
motor plate size was iffy because I haven't modeled the entire knee and so fit 
with the slightly longer (encoder) Servo compared to the Stepper (no encoder) 
was also up in the air.

John


> 
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:54 PM  wrote:
> 
> > On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I have noticed the 3D
> > > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.
> >
> > I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will
> > inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?
> >
> > > But the noisy grind
> > > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> >





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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Chris Albertson]

The noise is caused by tooth shape.  I think the sound is caused by air
getting pushed out of the grove in the belt and pulley and very high rates
and then the teeth slamming together.   A lower precision printed pulley
would interlock tighter with the belt.   The slamming would be a little
harder.If noise were important, you would select a more modern rounded
tooth shape.  Profiles like GT2 have less noise and less "slip" and a bit
more strength for the same size belt. and importantly the teeth don't slam
together   On these belts the belt/pulley interface is much like a sine
wave rather than a square wave.

I run GT2 timing belts as fast as the stepper motor can go and don't hear
any belt noise.  All the noise comes from the motor.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:54 PM  wrote:

> On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I have noticed the 3D
> > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.
>
> I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will
> inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?
>
> > But the noisy grind
> > of the stepper motor is also gone.
>
> Got to be a bonus.
>
> > More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.
>
> Looking forward to that. Following this topic with interest.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 02 January 2021 03:40:40 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
> >
> > On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I have noticed the 3D
> > > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.
> >
> > I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will
> > inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?
> >
> > > But the noisy grind
> > > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> >
> > Got to be a bonus.
> >
> > > More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.
> >
> > Looking forward to that. Following this topic with interest.
> >
> > Marcus
>
> One other thing I've noticed that I believe was there with the stepper
> (25 ipm max) was the sound when bringing the table downwards.  I think
> for the most part the load of the table was always on the top edge of
> the leadscrew so never really any backlash issues.
>
> But high speed downward travel sounds a bit like the leadscrew may
> move faster than the table can fall due to gravity.  Or at least the
> friction on the ways limits top speed.
>
> Kind of like free falling before pulling the rip cord.  Once you reach
> terminal velocity the resistance of the air counteracts the
> acceleration of gravity.
>
> So even if the ACME screw wasn't there the table would fall of course.
>  But it might well be slower than the 156.25ipm I can achieve with the
> motor.  So the screw would go faster than the table and pull away from
> the top loaded edge.  Once the backlash was made up the leadscrew then
> pulls down on the knee assembly giving it a bit of a push which then
> accelerates it to bump against the top edge again.
>
> It's not that it's rattling but there's a bit of that between the two
> bevel gears and the ACME screw.  Going up is fast and smooth.
>
You may want to cut the ini files MAX_ACCEL & MAX_VEL down enough to stop 
that straight fall, then you can probably fine tune the backlash setting 
too, because its always on the top of the acme tooth. Even the way lube 
and gib setting is going to effect that.

> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 02 January 2021 01:53:14 John Dammeyer wrote:

> After a few days of trials and tribulations it's workable.
>
> Step 1 was cast a new plate.  Then use LinuxCNC to surface and mill
> the appropriate holes and slots.  Note to self.  Don't tell the CNC
> program you are using a 6.35mm carbide cutter when you actually use a
> 6mm one.  The holes and slots turn out a bit small.  Putting it all
> back and lining it up without a corner reference surface was not easy.
>
ROTFLMAO!  Been there, done that John, enough times I should know 
better. :)

> Anyway, the next issue was that no matter how I tried, making a 12T
> pulley to fit on a 19mm shaft with a 6mm key just doesn't work.  With
> a big hub the pulley stuck out too far.  So I created a 15T pulley
> with a narrow hub.  Second note to self.  Verify that the CAD
> simulation has the right space between parts so that it really does
> line up properly.

My inability to measure that accurately meant some rework in the shaft 
coupling and the motor mounts for the motorized bS-1. But its all 
working a treat now. Overall gear ratio is slower than I thought it 
would be though. Need to set a windup eliminating max speed. And it 
searches for home really slow due to the windup causing it to coast past 
the home switch. Fine tuning stuff yet to be fine tuned.  Get rid of the 
windup and I can speed it up abut 4 or 5x. I can't hear the servo 
running over the psu fans.

> Finally I set up the Bergerda drive to move 5 encoder edges for each
> step pulse with the motor effectively configured it like the
> MicroStepping drive.  The ratio from motor to knee shaft was now 3.2
> or 6400 steps per 0.25" of knee motion.
>
> Rather than muck with INI and HAL files to make sure I got it right it
> was easier to use my ELS, set 6400 steps/rev and a pitch of 0.25". 
> Then with the jog buttons I verified things were moving the right
> distance and with a step rate of 20,000 steps/second the Knee really
> moves fast.  Really fast.
>
> So now one step back to move 2 steps forwards.  Do some rewiring. 
> Configure the HAL and INI files.  And that awful whine from
> replacement stepper driver will be gone.

That's worthwhile, John. With the 3 phase stepper servo's I just put on 
the Sheldon, it moves like Casper the ghost, at 100+ ipm. I did have 
that 1600oz I put on Z, hammering tools off onto the floor with its 
growk as it moved. A 3NM rated nema-23 is MUCH quieter, and the 3 phase 
driver is about half the volume of a 2M542.

I think it uses only enough motor drive to keep the encoder happy because 
they both run dead cold while running the lathe-pawn code cutting air.

There is no dip switch to set motor current on them, just the microsteps.

> I have noticed the 3D 
> printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.  But the noisy grind
> of the stepper motor is also gone.

That's also worthwhile. I've also found the downloadable pulley making 
code, like from thingiverse, generates pretty sloppy pulleys. Bound to 
be noisy when the tooth fill is only 25%. But I don't know how to fix 
the src code for those parametric composers. So after about 6 passes at 
making pulleys, I ordered alu ones.

> More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.
> John

Take care and stay safe. And I hope 2021 is better than 2020.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printed L Type Timing Pulleys

[John Dammeyer]

> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
> On 2021-01-02 06:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I have noticed the 3D
> > printed pulleys are noisier than the metal ones.
> 
> I wonder whether that is because the surface of the teeth will
> inevitably be rougher than if they had been die-cast or machined?
> 
> > But the noisy grind
> > of the stepper motor is also gone.
> 
> Got to be a bonus.
> 
> > More when it's wired up to LinuxCNC.
> 
> Looking forward to that. Following this topic with interest.
> 
> Marcus

One other thing I've noticed that I believe was there with the stepper (25 ipm 
max) was the sound when bringing the table downwards.  I think for the most 
part the load of the table was always on the top edge of the leadscrew so never 
really any backlash issues.

But high speed downward travel sounds a bit like the leadscrew may move faster 
than the table can fall due to gravity.  Or at least the friction on the ways 
limits top speed.

Kind of like free falling before pulling the rip cord.  Once you reach terminal 
velocity the resistance of the air counteracts the acceleration of gravity.  

So even if the ACME screw wasn't there the table would fall of course.  But it 
might well be slower than the 156.25ipm I can achieve with the motor.  So the 
screw would go faster than the table and pull away from the top loaded edge.  
Once the backlash was made up the leadscrew then pulls down on the knee 
assembly giving it a bit of a push which then accelerates it to bump against 
the top edge again.  

It's not that it's rattling but there's a bit of that between the two bevel 
gears and the ACME screw.  Going up is fast and smooth.

John




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